Final R H E
St. Louis Cardinals (50-46)
12 12 0
Cincinnati Reds (43-52)
11 18 1
W: Wacha (6-4) L: Hughes (3-3) SV: Martinez (7)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

The Offense

I really wanted to just copy and paste the Endless Screaming tweet in each one of these sections, because seriously this game sucked the absolute life out of all of us, right? But Ryan Lavarnway deserves to have his night written about and praised. In his first game in the Major Leagues this season – just signed out of Triple-A two days ago – he hit two home runs, doubled, walked, and he drove in six runs. He might go down as the best Cincinnati Reds hitter of all time if we’re all going to be honest with ourselves.

The Pitching

It was 7-0 with the Reds leading when the 6th inning began. It was 10-7 when the inning was over. I’m not writing anything else in this section.

Notes Worth Noting

Ryan Lavarnway is the first player with 4 RBI (and he had 6 of them) in his Cincinnati Reds debut since RBI became an official stat in 1920 according to Elias, via the Reds Media Relations department. He’s also the first player EVER to have 3 or more extra-base hits and 6 or more RBI in his first game with a team (dating back to 1920 when RBI became a stat).

Eugenio Suarez and David Bell were both ejected from the game between the 1st and 2nd innings. Suarez didn’t like the strikezone during his 1st inning at-bat, and as he took the field he said something to the home plate umpire and was tossed. That resulted in Bell charging onto the field to argue/yell/scream and he too was tossed.

The Reds are now 43-52 on the season. That’s the exact same record that the Reds have last year through 95 games played.

Amir Garrett was supposed to pitch tonight for the Louisville Bats on a rehab assignment. The Bats were playing in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre. Travel issues prevented this from happening and the lefty didn’t pitch in the game.

Alex Wood will make his next rehab start for the Double-A Chattanooga Lookouts on Monday.

Up Next for the Cincinnati Reds

St. Louis Cardinals vs Cincinnati Reds

Saturday July 20th, 7:10pm ET

Miles Mikolas (6-9, 4.15) vs Luis Castillo (9-3, 2.41 ERA)

104 Responses

  1. Colorado Red

    K, I have kept up the hope, but after the last two games, it is done, over, finished.
    etc, etc, etc.
    Time to trade the pending FA’s and just wait till next rebuild.

    • Hotto4Votto

      Official time of death was stamped last night for any hopes on this season. It’s done, stick a fork in them. Sell anything of value that’s not here past next season and play the young kids. Go for another high draft pick. That’s all we have to look forward to at this point, the race to the bottom.

  2. Matt V

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    • Mary Beth Ellis

      this is indeed the finest use of the Endless Screaming account I have ever seen

  3. Daytonian

    Went to a bar to watch the game. Left when it was 7-5. Obviously, that was my best choice of the evening. A lot better than going to the pub to watch the Reds.

    • Mary Beth Ellis

      Your error was leaving the bar

      • Mary Beth Ellis

        ….that’s where they keep the alcohol.

  4. RichS

    Clean house! Bullpen has been a myth, finally revealed. The wait for Scooter has also been a myth. Dietrich has been a one month myth. Votto is a fraud. What is there to build on? Castillo? Or are we, “…waiting for Wood to show up?” Where is the core that is untouchable? Nowhere! Clean house. This is the only way you will find out you have no value.

    • Mike

      Do you realize what you are asking? You are asking this FO, this owner, who created this mess, to recreate another mess. You can’t fire an owner, but the FO is not working. Endless screaming will continue.

  5. George

    There was and still is some excitement about this year’s Reds team. Daily somebody talks about how many games to the wild card. Last year after 95 games the Reds record was 43 wins and 52 losses. This year after 95 games the Reds are 43 wins and 52 losses. If I remember, last year the mob was beating on the fortress gates with ropes and pitch forks to hang the manager.
    The final record for 2018 was 67 wins and 95 losses. The 2019 Reds consistent lack of hitting and the bullpen showing signs of cracking, does not offer a lot of hope. The overall weakness of the other Central Division teams adds to the delusion of a wild card for the Reds.
    The question is, can this team win 30 or more of the remaining 67 games to finish with a record of 73 wins and 89 losses or better, to prevent another 90-loss season.
    My fear is that the Reds will lose 100 games for the year. Who gets fired then?

    • ToBeDetermined

      George

      I’m curious? Are you actually saying that this years team has the exact same record as last years?
      If that’s true I’m amazed!!!!!
      Wow

    • Eric

      73-89? We draft where “18 or worse “20? At this point what does a sub 90 loss season accomplish. So the FO can celebrate a successful season, a job well done? I call BS on that.

  6. Chris

    Votto is an albatross over both the now and the future. He was the single biggest(not only) reason lost tonight. David Bell as of July 21 is a terrible managerial hire by our FO. The act of him throwing tantrum anytime a player gets thrown out is past old and no longer sincerely credible. His handling of pitching staff as far as starters and when to replace vs leave in has been horrible on 80%+ occasions. His use of bullpen is only marginally better. His over-emphasis and strict adherence to numbers and the “the new saber metrics” has been horribly met by the team. The days off, the rotations and lineups never coming on feel or with any consistency. So now, we have exact same record as did last year despite a much improved pitching staff and I believe overall better talent/personnel. Jim Riggleman was roughly .500 I believe after the disaster that was Bryan Price started last year, and I truly believe we would be .500 baseball team at minimum this year with him. Lifelong reds fan and this is pathetic.

    • Jreis

      I agree. I think this century has been depressing as a reds fans . The 2 bright spots were under Dusty Baker and Jim Riggleman. Two ” old school ” managers.

      • Broseph

        Sorry, but the 2010 Phillies sweeper the The 2012 meltdown leaving over the hill Scott Rolen to play in place of Frazier or the Mat Latos barn burner is a “bright spot”.

        Baker was a poor strategist. As was Riggleman. I don’t think Bell is great, but he has a far more inferior team than Baker did.

    • Mike

      Your angst is justified. Bell is sone of Reds FO employee. Isn’t Williams dad an owner/former owner? Baseball people are needed and an owner who lives in Europe or something.

    • Doc

      Organizationally the Reds train pitchers to go five innings. Look at the minors; how many starts in the entire organization have gone six innings or more. If that is your plan, then you need to build your team with about 10 pitchers who can go five innings each, and a couple of late inning guys. Pull every starter after five and the next guy knows he is going in to start the sixth. Pitching pairs. Since history shows pitchers can throw 300+ innings on four days rest, you actually should only need four pairs who can go every fourth day.

      Otherwise start training starters to go more than five.

      The fork has been in the Reds for a long time. Wild card was an illusion created by a bunch of teams playing poorly. The cream is rising; the Reds are sinking.

    • Eric

      Why was Lucas Sims sent down after a spot start pitching 8 fantastic innings in the game where he finally ran out gas in the 9th though Bell should have relieved him after the walks which could have preserved his 0.00 era. Tyler Mahle should have been bull penned to give Sims at least two more starts and then a decision be made going forward. Mahle couldn’t pitch 8 innings in his dreams without giving up a 3 run go ahead dinger. He’s now at 10 losses. How many of those could have turned out differently if Sims was given a chance and pitched nearly as well in 7 starts. At least he seems to be capable of keeping the ball in the yard at GABP. That slam he gave up in the 9th was Bells fault for not relieving him when he was obviously gassed.

  7. RojoBenjy

    Doug–thanks for having the intestinal fortitude to write this recap.

    I said all i’m going to say in the game thread. I got nothing left.

    A lot of people are probably glad to hear that, too.

  8. Scott Gennett

    I don’t recall giving so much rope to a player like Stephenson, maybe it’s time to recognize he just can’t pitch in the bigs.

    • greenmtred

      Some of us have been puzzled by how little Stephenson has been used. He’s had some very good games, and he’s had some poor ones. Kind of like every other player.

    • Eric

      Why was Lucas Sims sent down after a spot start pitching 8 fantastic innings in the game where he finally ran out gas in the 9th though Bell should have relieved him after the walks which could have preserved his 0.00 era. Tyler Mahle should have been bull penned to give Sims at least two more starts and then a decision be made going forward. Mahle couldn’t pitch 8 innings in his dreams without giving up a 3 run go ahead dinger. He’s now at 10 losses. How many of those could have turned out differently if Sims was given a chance and pitched nearly as well in 7 starts. At least he seems to be capable of keeping the ball in the yard at GABP. That slam he gave up in the 9th was Bells fault for not relieving him when he was obviously gassed.

    • Eric

      Stephenson is out of options. He has great stuff. All of his troubles are mental, he obviously gets very nervous. In spring training the last two games made the difference and he was not DFA’d he made the team.
      He was cool calm and collected and pitched great. He also pitched well early on. Just watch him next time. If he starts figiting, ie pulling on his sleeve, moving quickly between pitches, sweating profusely, look out it ain’t working out for him tonight because he’s scared. You can’t pitch scared in the bigs.

  9. Mary Beth Ellis

    Hey guys! How’d the game go?

    • VaRedsFan

      You were a rose among the thorns in this Reds loss. I think I speak for many, that we appreciate you sticking around in the game threads, interjecting thoughts and quips in an otherwise gloomy result.

  10. RedsMonk65

    Definitely a screamer–more than a hair-puller. An odd game right off the bat with the ejections, etc. For a brief moment, the Reds were on the friendly end of a laugher–until the longest inning in the history of MLB (OK, maybe not, but it seemed so) turned the joke around on them.

    Was good to see the Reds tough it out and fight back to within one. Still demoralizing though.

    On the bright side, Ryan Lavarnway may be the summer acquisition we’ve all been waiting for! Kudos to him.

    Seriously, this team needs to get healthy, first of all — all around . Then, the FO needs to make the tough but possibly unpopular decisions that are best inthe long run.

    • David

      Lavarnway had a career year tonight. He’ll never have another night like this. Let’s not get too excited yet.

      • ToBeDetermined

        I bet their have been a lot of players in the bigs that never equaled the night he had in their entire careers

  11. Jreis

    Been a reds fan since the beginning of time and I tell you I cant remember such a fundamentally bad team. I have been to 12 games this year and each game I have seen there is as always at least 3-4 gaping errors in the field or on the bases.

    Honestly last June and july were the best 2 months the reds have had in 6 years and that was because Riggleman really pushed the fundamentals. He would have the team doing fielding and baserunning drills before the game and it would pay dividends for them during the game.

    I think the team kind of quit on Riggleman at the end of the year. Were the players tired of doing the drills? Did they tank so he would not get rehired.?

    This team would be a 500 team if they played the game the right way this year. Very frustrating

    • David

      Yes, this is not a fundamentally good baseball team. There is some talent here, but it has been mis-applied.
      There is a problem inside the Reds clubhouse, I think. It is a similar problem that some other habitually losing teams have. I hesitate to name it, because I think some who run this blog will be angry. Let us just say that beyond talent (which is necessary) that there is an attitude needed to “win”. Mike Schmidt of Phillies fame once said that evey athlete has the “will to win” on the field, but not every athlete has the “will to prepare”.

      • Jreis

        Yes I agree that there are benign tumors in the clubhouse. And we all know who there are.

  12. Sliotar

    Doug wrote: “The Reds are now 43-52 on the season. That’s the exact same record that the Reds have last year through 95 games played.”

    Just as troubling, 6 of the 8 position players tonight were age 28 or older.

    The starting infield ages – 28, 29, 29, 36.

    Into year 5 of this “rebuild”, and the Reds still aren’t as young starting each game as the Cubs starting 8, and Chicago has $100 million or more in payroll it can spend each and every season.

    • Pete

      Depressing enough being a bad team but old and bad is the absolute worst scenario. September palyers:
      Winker – 1b
      VanMeter-2b
      Peraza – ss
      Suarez – 3b
      Ervin – lf
      Senzel – cf
      Aquino – rf
      Barnhadt – c

      They may also be bad but they will be younger. I’m starting to think the FO needs to changed in whole. Probably need outsiders from a team with a sound organization: Yanks, Dodgers, Braves, Astros to name a few. Does anyone from the Reds upper management structure have a clue on how to build a winning organization?

      • Chris

        Agreed except for Barnhart. Need upgrade there. If our first base can’t hit we need offensive catcher. I wish winker play first but they will let votto play his 10 more years as it seems like….

      • Pete

        This is for September. Let Tucker show what he has or doesn’t have.

        We don’t have any real prospects in the farm system to play catcher. Tyler Stephenson looks to be another bust. His line in AA: .258/.344/.371, he’s 22. I don’t see the kid setting the world on fire. Maybe it’s more to do with development of these youngsters than poor drafting but someone needs to figure it out.

      • Doug Gray

        A 22-year-old catcher with a better than league average OPS in Double-A is “looking like another bust”?

        My man, you need to take a step backwards.

      • Pete

        First round, #11 pick; I would hope for more. Looks like maybe a serviceable MLB catcher if that. Those statistics aren’t overwhelming he K’s at an alarming rate for a player who shows such little power.

        Stephenson’s OPS: 717
        League Average: .682

        Better than league average OPS? That’s not much to work with. I hope he pans out and his development takes off. Do you ever question the Reds ability to develop talent?

        Bottom line: You actually get to see him play so I have more hope than I would otherwise. Reds are relying on their farm system to form their ML team’s base. So for the first time, I read your Minor League website and check stats – thank you for the website by the way.

    • Chris

      We could/should have:

      2b – VanMeter -24
      ss -Peraza -24
      3b – Suarez – 28

      LF – Winker/Ervin platoon 24-26
      Cf – senzel -23
      RF – puig – 29 OR Acquino

    • George

      Just for the record the 25 man roster for the 2019 Cubs was $203,079,488.
      The 2019 Reds 25 man Roster for the 2019 season was $126,673,214.
      Pirates $74,808,000
      Cards $162,620,267.
      Brewers $122,532,400.
      Based on Cots contract info.

  13. Jack

    There just isn’t enough talent in the system even after five years of high draft picks. If you can’t draft right then you need to trade with those who can. The only two players on the roster that will bring much are Castillo and Suarez. Trade them, we need a big talent infusion and are years away without. Hang on to them and they are shiny baubles on a 90 loss team

    • Pete

      Without a new FO making those draft picks and making those trades, I wouldn’t expect the results to differ from the past. These guys aren’t very good. Is Bob ready or even capable of shaking it up? Can MLB step in and force his hand – we’re desperate.

    • David

      Yeah, I’ve said that before myself. There is just not enough talent in the Reds’ system. Regardless of the various rating systems for the teams’ minor leagues, I just don’t see much there. And even at that, the Reds won’t promote them.
      What more does Josh Van Meter have to do to get a long, sustained look in the lineup for a team in LAST PLACE?

      No, let’s play Scooter. Let’s play Dietrich. Let’s play Peraza.
      Whatever.
      In last place they are, and in last place they will remain. This is Castelini’s doing.

      • daytonnati

        I think how they handled Senzel is indicative of their incompetence. He is the best infield prospect they’ve had in years. What do they do? Make him an outfielder. Why? So Scooter Gennett can stay at 2nd base. In my world, once Senzel gets here, he is the second baseman for the next ten years and this past Spring, Scooter would have been shagging flies in Goodyear, not Senzel. Just crazy stuff. Scooter goes down and they STILL can’t see the logical move. Senzel to 2nd, Ervin, Winker, Puig as the outfield. Peraza needs to be playing every day at short. They need to decide what they want to do with Puig. If they can’t keep him, move him and get some of the kids up here.

        “No more half measures, Walter.”

    • Eric

      We traded practically a whole starting major league ball team. What did we get in return for all those 2010 to 2013 playoff players. With the exception of the Simon for Suarze trade. In one word Jose Perazza. The Chapman trade was a complete debacle. The Cubs kept him for a playoff run to win the WS and traded him for a whole lot more than we got and we developed him. They made complete fools out of the FO.

  14. VaRedsFan

    Votto with an utter fail not going to the bag to cover. Just watched the ball roll to Scooter for a full 2 seconds.

    • Jack

      I love Votto but the bottom fell out for him about a year ago. He earned his money and more, too bad most of it was for terrible teams. At this point he is a sunk cost but there is no replacement so just have to let it play out for now

      • Hanawi

        I’ve been the biggest Votto defender and he’s more than earned his contract, but as you said, for terrible teams. Now it seems like he’s falling back quickly. The power is completely gone. Possibly bc of the decision he made last year to completely change his approach to the severe choking up after getting blown away by inside fastballs early in the year. He still has value, but he probably needs to bat lower in the order and maybe take a day or two off per week so the Reds can take a look at some younger guys.

      • Eric

        FO could restructure Vottos remaining 100 mil to run through 2035. Like they did Griffey. Still paying him 3 mil every year. That’s how you try and resign your good ballplayers after you’re stupid enough to pay one player 250,000,000 over 13 seasons.

  15. Davy13

    “No team has blown multiple 7-run leads in a season over the last 10 seasons until the Reds this season.”

    At least the team is good at something.

  16. TR

    The quest to split the series starts tomorrow.

    • TR

      That’s for sure. 1-8 to start the season and now 2-6 to begin the second half. Too much to overcome. Change, if any for this season, is up to the FO leadership in the next 12 days.

  17. MS

    Disappointing game it was so close
    12 to 11, it saddens me 🙁
    They were doing so well until the 6 th inning. It was an exciting game but heartbreaking to see the Reds loose.
    I wish that they could win more than they loose because it’s no fun to
    always see your home team loose.
    Very sad. I’m proud of my hometown but it hurts when your team is always loosing and is the laughing stock of the sports world, I wish the reds could win a World Series again. Sigh.
    Only in 1990 and sadly I was not in town then so I missed it. So sad no more big red machine only big red flop 🙁 I wish that cincinnati had the money to buy decent players so we could actually have a winning team, we have a lot of really good players just not good enough or maybe not managed properly I dunno. It’s just so sad to see them loose more than they win 🙁 I still love our team just wish that it was a better one.

  18. Anonymous

    Maybe the guys are sore and tired and with hurting bodies & maybe the team needs some decent back up players so if anyone is hurt or needs to rest or sit out a game they could.
    I don’t know but there’s got to be a solution for a better team, don’t know what that is but….
    maybe the players aren’t acting like a team that woks as one , or the team is not being managed correctly, maybe it’s a talent issue, IDK,
    but something needs to change.
    Maybe the fans are tired of always watching the team loose.

  19. KYPodman

    I agree with everyone concerning the Votto comments above, but, I would like to point out that the 10 running inning does not occur if Iglesias would have simply made the routine play on the ground ball with 1 out. Instead he tries a no hand, backwards glove flip to 2nd for a force out. If he makes the play to first there would have been 2 outs and runners on 1st, 2nd. The next batter flew out to right, inning over. I have always preached to my little league teams, make the simple play, get the out when you have a crooked number lead late in the game, outs are your friend at that point. This opened the flood gates for the big inning. Granted, Votto’s lack of defensive prowess loomed large later in the disastrous inning, but, it would not have occurred without the “let’s get on SC top 10 plays” play by your SS!

    • KYPodman

      Sorry, runners on 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs……

    • MFG

      Totally agree, however Votto has been terrible on defense and terrible at the plate this year. He needs to be platooned and dropped in the order. He has a no trade clause and he has little trade value at this point anyway so he has to become a part time player at this point but the Reds don’t have the courage to do it.
      Bring up some youngsters and lets see what they can do now not in September.
      pull the trigger on some trades to clear roster spots for players like Wood, Sims, VanMeter, O’Grady, etc. Bell totally screwed up our bullpen by over using them months ago. We could all see it then so why didn’t he?

      • Minchy

        Yea, Joey really aggravated me 2 nights ago as he stood on 2nd while a ball is driven to the wall in CF. The centerfielder caught the ball running toward the wall and bounced off the wall. Joey should have been on 3rd. Next batter singles and stops at 3rd when he could have scored. Thomas and Chris never mentioned it.

    • VaRedsFan

      Iggy’s gaffe was absolutely huge. There were 3 such plays in the inning. The 2 mental errors by Votto and Iggy, followed by the physical error by Votto, (which could be classified as mental, because he didn’t get in front of the ball).

    • Minchy

      And the Puig (showing off) throws to 3rd after catching out number 2 allowing the runner on 1st to go to 2nd. Next batter singles in both runs. Have to play smarter.

  20. Hot Chili

    It hurts a lot, especially against the WLB, but nothing to be surprised about.

    It was never about “old school” or sabermetrics. It’s about FUNDAMENTALS (very old school BTW), something Mr. Votto lacks dearly. And so do the rest of the team. Puig never hits the cut-off man, they are hackers at pitches out of the zone while looking at meatballs right down the middle. Horrible baserunning (Votto 2 nights ago was just ridiculous), situational hitting.

    The pitching simply cannot end a 0-2 count at bat. It’s amazing how many hits come out. Last night I counted 7. Terrible game calling and execution.

    Marty has always been right about Votto and the rest of the team. You can have some tools but if you lack fundamentals, have a “cold chest” and low baseball IQ you will lose. And no sabermetric will change that. The Reds are the living proof of that assesment.

    • Doug Gray

      Marty is rarely ever right about Joey Votto.

      • Chris

        He was dead right from the outset when he bashed the absurd deal that we gave him. To not at least admit that he was and is right about that is stubborn ignorance. It was NEVER smart in Cincy to sign anyone to a 10 year deal let alone a guy in his late 20s. Dumb and they are getting burned for it.

      • Doug Gray

        Except the part where he’s earned every penny of it already….

        The thing with long term deals is that the player accepts they get underpaid – usually by a lot – in the first half of the deal, and the team accepts that they overpay on the back end – usually by quite a bit – on the second half of the deal. And then at the end, it averages out as working out for both. For his contract to not work out for the Reds he’d have to be a sub-replacement level player, by quite a bit, moving forward.

        You may not like that, but it’s the truth.

      • Chris

        Doug you are best man, I pay for services and I love your work. I have to disagree with you though on votto and his contract given our team. Whether you think he’s best Red hitter ever or don’t, you would be hard pressed to argue that you are excited about having a 36 year old votto in current form for 4 1/2 more seasons just penciled in at 1b?

  21. Sidney

    Clean house? Does it really matter? I think back on the pieces already “cleaned” over the past several season and what the Reds have to show for it……doesn’t leave me too excited (yes, I realize there are a scant few exceptions). I look at what the Reds could reasonably trade and have zero confidence they’ll get anything in return that will help at the major league level. May save some money, but not sure about leading to wins at some point. Would we rather watch Puig hit home runs or have a couple of AA guys that will never see GABP? I’m not sure.

    • Hot Chili

      You know, I haven’t made my mind on Puig. On one hand, he lacks fundamentals like throwing at the cutoff man, hacking at bad pitches or some of his antics. On the oher hand, he has a “fire” that the rest of the “veterans” definitely do not. If only he could reach a level of maturity according to his great tools….

      • VaRedsFan

        Another great take Hot Chili. Puig is very frustrating. He can hit mistake pitches, but nothing else. I love his fire and hustle. His big arm plays anywhere, but it sometimes gets him in trouble. Last night he threw to 3rd with no shot, allowing a runner to go to 2nd. Just too many mental mistakes. Fundamentals, like you spoke of previously. And it’s mostly from veteran players…which the younger guys are supposed to be learning from.

  22. Steven Ross

    Been saying for months, unless the Reds got at least 5 games over .500, I wasn’t going to get my hopes up. Hasn’t failed in the past and certainly didn’t this year. I have no idea how to fix this mess but what I do know is that I have little faith in Bell or upper management leading this team forward.

    • burtgummer

      I still don’t believe ownership or his stooges in the front office have any interest in putting a good team on the field,they are getting their pockets filled from everywhere else why bother

      • Doug Gray

        I can promise you that the people who are cashing the checks in the front office are very interested and invested in putting a good team on the field.

        Bob Castellini certainly WANTS to. Just don’t think he’s willing to do what it actually takes to do so (write bigger checks, let the people that aren’t owners do the right things when it comes to baseball decisions).

  23. Reddawg12

    With the pitching (particularly the bullpen) starting to implode, it doesn’t feel like there is any significant progress to point to this season, especially considering the overall record hasn’t improved. As soon as Chris Welsh starting talking in the 6th inning about how this is the kind of game a manager just gets to sit back and enjoy, I had a feeling this would happen.

    On another note, I think Jose Peraza needs to start everyday at SS going forward. Not because he will definitely be better than Iglesias, but because he might be. His bat has also started to come around. With the season lost at this point, there’s really nothing to lose. Need to see if he fits into future plans.

  24. Don A

    What to say, there is definitely more talent on this team that the team from last year, yet they have the same record after 95 games. Goes to show that it takes more than talent to win.

    After the moves made in the off season, I was really excited for this season and really felt they had a good chance to be competitive. Unfortunately, it looks like that will not be the case.

    I seen in a comment on another post that Marty had said something is missing with this team. That is clearly apparent, and it is going to take some changes. It seems that there are some players that are more interested in collecting a paycheck than winning. May just be time to “blow up” the team.

    • MFG

      The thing that is missing is veteran leadership. That is what some players in the past like Oester and Scott Rolen brought. Those guys would ride you for not running hard or missing a cutoff man. We don’t have that player, it should be Votto but he doesn’t have that personality.

      • Doug Gray

        You’ve been in the clubhouse since the 1980’s to witness these things?

    • VaRedsFan

      Blowing it up is hard to do when the biggest problem is paid the most money and has a no trade clause.

      • Phil Gasson

        $25M for a player who can’t run, play defense or hit. He is physically and financially crippling this team. Someone posted he is the greatest hitter in Reds history. That is a slap in the face to the person who is. Get used to seasons like this as long as he is on the team.

  25. Mike Adams

    Come on Reds fans, every team has a bad, bad game.
    Every team has a bad, bad series.
    Then that teams goes out and sweeps a first place team or upper division team when there doesn’t appear to be any hope for that. The Reds have done that this year.
    I think the main impetus to the recent poor play is injuries.
    Now in saying this I am not disagreeing with many commenters on the poor defense, poor relief pitching and heads not in the game by players who should know better.
    If the team is still playing this way a month from now maybe there would have been reason for an end-of-the-world pessimistic outlook now.
    There is still a lot of games left.

    • Don A

      Really!! There is a lot of games left blah…blah…blah… That is the exact problem with this team, no sense of urgency, just get’em next game. Get your head out of the sand!

      • Mike Adams

        As I said in my comment, not until a month from now if things don’t change.

    • MFG

      Agree but the trade deadline is fast approaching and we have not played well after the break. It would be a different story had we swept the Cubs or took 2 of 3.
      Then won the series with the Cards going in to the Brewers series. We have lost what little MoJo we had.

    • VaRedsFan

      “poor defense, poor relief pitching and heads not in the game by players who should know better.”

      Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

  26. Klugo

    David Bell has done the same as Riggleman and Price before him, with more. I’m fine with Bell. I think he’ll be a fine manager and will do well to have players who deserve to wear the Cincinnati Reds uniform. Last night, like too many other nights before, over the last three seasons, in particular, was a disgrace to the C, the city, the fanbase, the former players and history of this team. The Cincinnati Reds deserve better.

    Blow.It.Up.

  27. CFD3000

    Well that just sucked the life out of my weekend. Which says as much about me and how much I care about the Reds as it does about the Reds team itself.

    Congratulations to Ryan Lavarnway and his career game, and a tip of the cap to the Reds front office (while you’re all bashing them) for a timely pickup.

    I don’t understand how anyone can place the fault for this game on the Reds defense, or lack of power, or the front office. They scored 11 runs. I’m pretty sure that should be enough. Tyler Mahle needs a long look in the mirror. He wants to stay in games longer. If so, starting the 6th inning allowing four hits and a sac fly may not be the best plan. His spot is in real peril when Alex Wood returns. And no, Bowman and Hughes and Stephenson didn’t get help from their defense, but really, 12 runs, that’s not good.

    I have a lot more to say, but it would just be howling at the moon. So I’ll just go with this. Whether it’s a closed door player’s meeting or a managerial rant, or a roster shake up, I’m really hoping these last two discouraging games are a wake up call for this Reds team. They’re better than that – I really hope they start proving it. And I’ll try not to let that game ruin my weekend. Go Reds!

    • Klugo

      I do wonder what Mahle’s ERA, etc have been in the games since he complained about quick hooks. I’m going to look it up. Some day. But I have a pretty good feeling the stats are not good. What Mahle should realize, in hindsight, is that his manager was, not only doing what he thought was best for the team, but also what was going to be best for Mahle, his stats, and, eventually, his wallet. Bell’s only mistake in this situation, imo, was listening to the nearsighted opinion of his young pitcher.

      • Don

        The defense imploded in the 6th behind the pitchers.

        Martinez getting on to load bases on hard ground ball to 2nd baseman was the 1st out not recorded.
        Next batter hits a Sacrifice Fly, should be runner on 3rd, 2 outs as worst case
        Next single to left score 2nd run, with a runner on 1st.
        Grounder to Iglesias whom would have gone to first with 2 outs to end the inning.
        Reds up 7-2 going into bottom of 6th. Totally different game.

        Or grounder to iglesias is an infield hit. Next batter pop out to Right, inning over. Reds go to bottom of 6th 7-2.

        The Martinez grounder not getting an out set up the inning.

        All this occurs before the error with 2 out and score is 7-7 which extends the inning and allows the 3 run homer to occur.

        Reds defense gave the cards 6 outs in the top of the 6th inning. Cards put the ball in play and took advantage of the reds. Cards deserved to score 2 runs in the bottom of the 6th.

        The other 8 are due to defensive miscues (both physical and mental).

        Team is playing for the most part what the analytics shows are the best hitters and hoping that the below average defense does not hurt to bad. Friday Night it all went bad.

      • Klugo

        I agree the Iglesias play was the squirrel. Should’ve been out of the inning 7-2;but there were many o play after that and oh so many, this season, before.

      • Reaganspad

        The squirrel?

        No that was the 4-3 put out that wasn’t charged, fielded seriously or thrown in a ML fashion. Scooter is a DH that we play at second. His no play set the tone for the inning

  28. Don

    Being not in local area and watching the games on mlb app, I can start the game at the beginning whenever I want and yesterday did not start watching until 9PM and waited until Saturday AM to make any comments on the game as it was a very frustrating game to watch as a fan.

    1st off, congrats to Lavarnway on a great debut. The 2019 team even with the same record as 2018 at this point have for the most part been more enjoyable to watch and cheer. Most games have been much closer and been in doubt until the end.

    The way Suarez was ejected from the game to me seems to be a potentially selfish act by the player and not thinking of the teammates first. He had his say as he walked away after the strike out in the bottom of the 1st and the umpire gave him lots of leeway. Since it occurred between innings off camera we can never know if Suarez went to the ump or the ump had rabbit ears as something was said from a long way away.
    When I umpired amateur baseball years ago, an umpire can ignore and let pass what is said in the heat of the instance. If something was said 4 or 5 minutes later which was an escalation, Suarez deserved to be tossed. He had time to go to the club house and calm down or have someone talk to him and calm him down. This is what should have happened and the leaders (or a coach) on the team should have made sure this occurred.
    Bell had said sometime in the last couple of days that the urgency to win is now. For him to get tossed shows that he has a temper he cannot control as at that moment in time it was more important for him to make a scene and make a point knowing the result would be that he would not be managing the rest of this game.

    He made his point, he defended the player and kept his player from doing anything worse that could have resulted in a suspension so this is where he should have walked away. He is supposed to be the leader of the team and setting the example of how the team should be. He did not seem to be thinking of the team first with his actions.

    No clue if this would have made any difference in the game result, the metal and physical mistake/misplays that occurred on defense in the 6th inning probably would have still occurred like they have more times that us fans would like to see in 2019.

  29. Hotto4Votto

    The Votto hate on here makes this place almost unbearable.
    Is he having a great year? No. Is age catching up to him? Yes. As far as I know Father Time is undefeated, though Julio Franco and Jesse Orosco gave him a run for his money. Even so, he’s been right around average offensively to this point in the year.
    Complaining about his contract is silly because he’s already been worth the full amount up to this point. If you want to complain, then direct it toward the FO that wasted his prime years when he was an elite hitter on miserable teams.
    Talk about his defense and base running being poor is not unwarranted. It’s just that he’s never been great at either. Most 1B aren’t or they’d likely be playing other positions. Age playing a large role here as well, yet that is rarely part of the pitchfork conversation.
    He’s been the best Red’s hitter of a generation. He’s a former MVP, who’s been a finalist a couple other years, and is probably a future HOF’er. He’s also entertaining and a character on the field. He’s getting older and the downturn was bound to happen. He held it off longer than many. He deserves better from the fan base.
    But carry on with finding a whipping boy to vent your frustrations on.

    • Shchi Cossack

      “Complaining about his [Votto’s] contract is silly because he’s already been worth the full amount up to this point. If you want to complain, then direct it toward the FO that wasted his prime years when he was an elite hitter on miserable teams.”

      SPOT ON!!!

      BTW, the FO during the peak Votto seasons consisted of Walt Jocketty and Bob Castellini. They wasted the talent they inherited and failed to manage the transition from that inherited talent to the next competitive Reds team. If you want a target for your anger and angst from the past decade look up above the field level. Both Bob Castellini and Walt Jocketty are still there as the CEO and Executive Advisor to the CEO.

    • lost11found

      The fact that he’s already out played the contract doesn’t give him immunity to critiques of his play in a specific game.

      Those might go overboard yes, but the ‘joey votto is perfect’ tag should be retired as well. Or at least change the verb to ‘was’

      • Shchi Cossack

        The $$$ and contract have nothing to do with Votto’s performance. When he was offered the contract, Votto asked Castellini, “Are you sure?” The fact that Votto accepted $225MM for 10 years of his service isn’t a valid criticism of Votto and has nothing to do with his performance.

        I haven’t seen any tag of ‘joey votto is perfect’ anywhere in any discussion. I have never seen anyone claim Votto was immune to critique. In fact, Votto has usually been his own worst critic, expecting perfection from his own performance, but never claiming he was perfect.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I did state he wasn’t having a great season, age is catching up to him, and that talk of poor defense, slow footed is warranted. Criticism of his on field play is fine, no one is above getting called out for bad plays.

        As far as the fulfilled value of his contract though, It absolutely should make him immune to people constantly bringing up how much he’s being paid as if he hasn’t been worth the money spent on him. But I agree it shouldn’t make him immune to critiques for particular plays in games. Just stop using his contract against him.

        I decided to say something because the overall negative tone this year on this board in the comment section toward Votto has seemed overboard to me. He hasn’t been great but he’s far from the only player who’s not contributed up to the back of their baseball cards. Votto has a much longer history of high level performance than anyone else on the team, but he takes more flack than most. He’s also the oldest position player by far on the team, yet few seem to factor that into their criticisms.

        Again, he deserves a lot better from the fans for how good he’s been for this franchise.

    • Jack

      Glad to see a rational voice. I have been hoping he could stave off father time for longer but maybe he won’t. Even so he is a small part of the team troubles and a bad night doesn’t change that. The haters, who come from some dark place, pile on every time he makes a mistake. He earned his money with great play on bad teams, never demanded a trade, stayed loyal and this is how he is rewarded in his last years.

    • MS

      I love Joey Votto he’s an amazing player for the Reds team, he carries the team -and he tried his best to hit the ball in the bottom of the 9th, it’s not his fault that the pitcher was intentionally trying to throw bad pitches to get him out ! Votto really tried hard it just didn’t happen for him, but that’s how it goes sometimes. I think he’s the best player on the team sadly though he is ageing as we all do & time waits for no one. I just hope he can hang in there for a few more years because he has a lot of fans who love him ! We love you Joey Votto
      You are a great Reds player !
      Hang in there man ! Just give it all your heart and your best and that’s all anyone can ask of you ! Rock on Joey Votto!

      • Eric

        Always been a huge Votto fan. I actually talked to him at a Bats game in Charlotte before he got on the bus. My daughter and I were the only ones waiting for sn hour. But…… The reality is his behemoth contract is inevitable going the be labeled a Ryan Howard look alike. Philly fans hated seeing him step on the field his last year while hitting in the low 100’s. The FO should have never extended Votto10 years with 3 years remaining on his contract. I just hope Red’s nation and sports media don’t treat him like they did Ryan Howard. Votto is a proud man and he will work his butt of to remain in shape and effective at age 41 playing first base and batting 2nd.

    • VaRedsFan

      The people that are using the age excuse still haven’t explained to me how he went from MVP runner up in a great season, to totally changing his approach in 2018, by bent arm swinging, inside out swinging, and check swinging in the very next year. Trying to hit every inside pitch to left field was not Votto from the year before.

      If you want to tell me that he is so old or hurt so bad now that that is how he has to swing that way, then I could accept it.
      I don’t believe that it is age related as much as it is approach related.

      I’ve asked this many time here, and have never gotten a legit answer….Can someone please provide some insight on why he changed his approach after one of his most successful seasons.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Not an excuse, it’s an explanation. People have been talking about age related decline forever on here. I’m surprised you haven’t caught that conversation. Most players have a peak prime between 27-29, and good players can typically remain productive through age 32-33 before seeing a drop off. Often the drop off is sudden. The best can hold it off a little longer but everyone eventually succumbs. It was discussed with Phillips, it’s been discussed as an impending concern with Gennett and stated as a reason against extending him.

        Votto will turn 36 before the end of the season. The fact that he had 3.5 WAR last season while turning 35 is pretty good. Pete Rose, considered amongst the top hitters in the history of baseball had 3 productive seasons (2+ WAR) after age 35. He was able to defy the odds and remained productive in age 36-38 seasons. But he also produced four negative WAR seasons after that. Tony Perez had one productive season after age 35, in his year 36 season, with two negative WAR seasons. Frank Robinson also has three productive seasons after age 35, in his age 36-38 seasons.

        These are some of the best Reds 1B (Pete late in his career) of the last 50 years or so and all HOF’ers. They all showed age related decline from their primes. None were productive/above average after age 38. Most had big time seasons before dropping off near age 35-36.

        Rose went from 7 WAR at 35 to 2.9 at 36. Perez has 3.3 WAR at 36 to .5 WAR the next season having only one more season over over 1 WAR.
        Robinson went from 3.3 WAR at 35 to 2 WAR at 36.

        Does that help explain how Votto at age 33 (turned 34) went from 7 WAR to 3.5 WAR at age 34 (turned 35) to where he is now? Even the best of the best had only 3 more productive seasons after age 35. Maybe Votto has another one or two in the tank. Maybe not. Either way the explanation is pretty straightforward as to why he’s starting to show decline this year.

        Even Michael Jordan wasn’t the GOAT when he played for the Wizards. Age gets us all.

      • VaRedsFan

        I understand age decline. What I don’t understand is why he changed his approach. Please read my last paragraph, not just the 1st sentence of my post.