Interest in tonight’s game is heightened by the worst-kept secret in Cincinnati sports:

There have been a lot of words spoken and written about the desire of Reds fans to have Nick Senzel, the organization’s top prospect, finally join the team. He’s not going to have to wait long to play. He’s in the starting lineup in center field — where most of Redleg Nation hopes he remains on a regular basis for the foreseeable future. With the way the outfielders are (not) hitting as a group, there is no reason to have Senzel platoon with anyone right out of the chute.

It will be interesting to see what sort of crowd shows up for tonight’s 7:10 p.m. Eastern time start at Great American Ball Park against the San Francisco Giants, who have the same 13-18 record as the Reds. Will the fan base thank the team with their wallets? We’ll see.

Starting Pitchers

Tyler Beede (2018) 7.2 8.22 5.63 22.5% 20%
Sonny Gray 29.2 3.64 2.85 30.3% 6.7%

Right-hander Beede is making his first start in the majors this season after starting the season at San Francisco’s Class AAA team in nearby Sacramento. He’s started five games there this season, and in 22 2/3 innings, he’s recorded a 1.99 ERA and 3.76 xFIP. Gray has been victimized by lack of run support in the first month-plus of the season. All of his numbers, aside from his 0-4 won-loss record, are lights-out. He is making the trade with the Yankees look like a very positive one from the Cincinnati standpoint.


The only reliever who has pitched in the past two games is Zach Duke, and he’s only pitched 1.1 innings over those contests. So it would seem that he and the full complement of Reds relievers will be available tonight if Manager David Bell calls upon them. Based on Bell’s track record in the first 31 games, he will certainly do so.

Starting Lineups

Giants Reds
2B Joe Panik 1B Joey Votto
LF Mike Gerber CF Nick Senzel
C Buster Posey LF Jesse Winker
1B Brandon Belt RF Yasiel Puig
3B Evan Longoria 2B Derek Dietrich
SS Brandon Crawford SS Jose Iglesias
CF Kevin Pillar 3B Kyle Farmer
RF Steven Duggar P Sonny Gray
P Tyler Beede C Tucker Barnhart

Like Senzel, Gerber was just brought up from the minors today. So far this season at Class AAA he has hit .357/.402/.655. The Giants designated veteran outfielder Gerardo Parra for assignment to make room for Gerber.

Additional insights into the statistical history of the players in today’s game is available all season long at

News and Notes

This should not come as any surprise …

Perhaps teams won’t be using extreme defensive shifts against Senzel …

Senzel talks about the mental aspect of dealing with multiple injuries …

A historical perspective …

161 Responses

  1. Seat101

    So they’re going to bench Peraza in favor of Senzel?

    The guy just can’t get a break !!

    • vegastypo

      Who, exactly, has Peraza ‘outperformed’ that he deserves a ‘break’ to stay in the lineup?

      • Eric the red

        He’s doing much better than Scooter so far this season 🙂

      • matthew hendley

        hahaha. and 3 weeks after Scooter is reactivated he will be outproducing Scooter as well

  2. Sliotar

    This team as constructed now will soon be immersed with 30 and overs, which is no bueno in today’s MLB.

    In the immortal words of Princess Leia…. “Save us, Lil Senzil, you are our only hope.”

    (Actually there is Castillo and Winker, but the aging bum factor is strong with this roster.)

    Go Redlegs.

    • Amarillo

      Castillo, Garett, Lorenzen, Mahle, Peralta, Stephenson, Peraza, Suarez, Winker are all 27 or younger…

    • Amarillo

      Duke, Hernandez, Hughes, Roark, Casali, Votto, Kemp are the only players who are 30.

  3. Eric the Red

    Our offensive struggles are widespread, but having a cleanup hitter with a .200 OBP is certainly one of the bigger issues. You can’t have something like that and expect positive offensive results—even if you’re getting power from the position. (Which we aren’t, of course.)

  4. Shchi Cossack

    Good time to sit Suarez for a game off. During the last 16 games .180/.239/.410/.649.

    • DocProc

      Never a good time to sit our best player. Especially on a Friday night home game.

      • matthew hendley

        It be one thing if was a benching, as it is just a day off, and he will be in the lineup tomorrow I wouldn’t worry about it too much

  5. Old-school

    It’s warm and humid in the friendly confines of GABP. Go reds. Welcome Nick Senzel.

  6. B-town fan

    It’s really cool you can go over and watch the Reds batting practice on there Twitter page. Senzel participating and Lorenzen is in the rotation with the position players.

  7. matthew hendley

    Good lineup considering that Suarez is just getting a day off. Will fill up the postgame recap with calls to Trade Senzel if he goes 0-4 today. Cause evidently that’s what we do here.

  8. Chris Holbert

    I am not sure why DD is in there for Peraza, besides a bit of power he is hitting like the rest. Peraza is not going anywhere, and there is a reason DD was available. He is not by any means “young”. Remember Peraza just turned 25…

    • Darrin

      And Peraza has been hitting well over the last week. I think the constant shifting and uncertainty messes with the kids confidence.

      • matthew hendley

        OH, is the player that is getting millions of dollars is having confidence problems. Maybe some time at Louisville and a pay cut will restore it. Forget his feelings. Peraza is a Joke.

      • da bear

        Matthew hendley – Scooter is making 9.775MM. Peraza is making 2.775MM. Will Scooter provide > 3 times the value to the Reds ball club this year compared to Peraza?

      • matthew hendley

        da bear- by the end of the season I will say, Scooter will at least double and come in somewhere between doubling and tripling Peraza’s output

    • matthew hendley

      The Jeter FO could be one of the worst in the majors. They should have at least traded the guy.

    • matthew hendley

      Have you figured it out yet?

  9. Steven Ross

    Bell as said it doesn’t matter where you bat in the lineup but I continue to think it does. Why not Iglesias leading off? He’s one of the few actually hitting.

    • da bear

      Don’t blame Bell. He’s a well informed, well read, well intentioned person. He’s simply referencing some flawed statistical research that stated such, back testing data in some ‘predictive’ manner to draw conclusions where conclusions are not warranted. The key to any data analysis is not coming up with some definitive answer, but rather understanding the limitations of any answers provided by the analysis.

      For example, any front office exec (or fan) who thinks any one player is worthy of receiving anything close to 25% of a team’s payroll doesn’t understand the limitations of stats such as WAR, which leads to terrible inefficiencies. See Mike Trout for the Angels (and b4 him their first baseman), Bryce Harper for the Phillies, Manny Machado for San Diego, and of course, Joey Votto for our beloved Reds

      • matthew hendley

        Don’t blame bell? yea ok, Quit whining about Joeys contract that is closer to 10% of the reds potential payroll then 25%. David Bell is unable to manage because he lacks the skill to do so. Simple as that.


    Senzel 5 for 5, hits for the cycle. No hitter by our Ace.

    Or at least a win. Where’s MBE when we need her?

  11. Chris Holbert

    Well we can take bets on who will be a Red next DD or Perzaza….

  12. Sowelo

    What is going on with Sonny Gray’s right arm? Are those bruises?

  13. Old-school

    Sonny Gray right arm looks like he’s doing cupping therapy, ala Michael Phelps.

  14. Seat101

    Nice catch.

    What’s his walk up song?

  15. WVRedlegs

    Oh well, it took a good defensive play to get Senzel out.
    Base hit next time.

  16. Old-school

    Already seeing disciplined hitters pressuring beede with long counts and stringing together quality AB.

    29 pitches


    • Seat101

      Great to see ain’t it?

      What do we have to worry about in their bullpen

  17. WVRedlegs

    Jack City for Dietrich. Can Sonny keep this lead? Last time he had a 3 run lead he quickly gave it right back.

  18. JB WV

    Does anybody else think of the movie Donny Brascoe when Sonny Gray’s name comes up?

  19. matthew hendley

    Bell with the good idea to sit peraza for Deitrich. Deitrich leading the team with RBIs. Don’t even need to talk to him about an extention as he is under team control for another year. I do know who will not be under contract for the rest of the year or possibly the rest of the night. Whoever is responsible for the loss of sound in this of all games.

    Also interested in what his walk up song is

    • WVRedlegs

      Scooter who?
      Obsolete now. ,
      You are right about not needing an extension, and Reds don’t need to extend Scooter. Scooter’s days as a Red are soon to be over.

  20. Indy Red Man

    Senzel + DD>Peraza….life as it should be:)

    I really like Sonny Gray too! .198 batt avg. allowed w/only 1 hr….crazy how is era was 3.64 coming in? Those numbers usually equal a 2.20 era or something? He’s got good stuff! Solid #2 on a good staff!

  21. DocProc

    So what’s the story on Sonny Gray’s black eye? I missed it.
    Rocky walk-up music was GREAT.

  22. MK

    I get putting a fasr guy like Peraza or Hamilton in the nine hole but I do not get the strategy behind Barnhart. What it says is you expect the pitcher to be in scoring position with two outs the more you do the guy in the seven hole.

  23. WVRedlegs

    Double-D with double 3 run Jacks.

    • Scott C

      Yeah, but why in the world did they sit Peraza. LOL

      • matthew hendley

        Cause he is the Bench piece of the future?

  24. Old-school

    Nothing like gabp and a little humidity to fix the offense.

  25. WVRedlegs

    Must be the Senzel Effect tonight with the offense.

  26. RedAlert

    Time for Tuckerr to slide to backup role – can’t hit a lick

    • Seat101

      I go outside to play catch with my five-year-old and look what happened

      Aargh! !

  27. Indy Red Man

    Can DD have the better half of a 2B platoon now? We play so many 1 run games that Peraza would have value as a pinch-runner as well.

  28. stu

    Did Senzel’s dad name drop Chad and Doug?

  29. Reddawg12

    Sonny Gray seems to have a hard time staying effective beyond the 4th or 5th inning.

    • Indy Red Man

      Yeah….he rolls along and then he suddenly falls apart? Not good? He needs to keep his tempo up. He slows way down and I think his mechanics slip up or something? Go out and get 3 outs and get your W

      • matthew hendley

        I think the Deitrich Reds…. I mean Cincinnati Reds are giving him as much of a lead as they can.

  30. matthew hendley

    Hope Sonny Gray is still alright. Something that can be fixed with a talking to during the Half inning. Let him get through at least 5.

    Jose Peraza just lost his Job again. its almost as if you can get anyone and they will just mash in Cincinnati. SOME people, would say that this is the end of scooter. No, this is the end of Peraza. Utilize Derick as the primary 2B until Scooter returns and then develop Detrick as the Ben Zobrist type UT that helps teams win more games.

    Senzel despite the K he just got does look competent. A good Eye and ability to force the count.

    Great job by the Reds so far.

    • daytonnati

      You know Matthew, I enjoy your posts and like any Reds fan we are bonded, but the Jose Peraza negativity is approaching stalker-like levels. Chill, man. From the BlogRedMachine, this happened last year:

      “Fortunately for the Reds, Peraza would silence all his critics. The young Venezuelan established career highs in almost every offensive category. Peraza slashed .288/.326/.416 in addition to belting 14 homers and swiping 23 bases. The right-handed hitting infielder led the National League in singles with 133 and proved to be a pesky out for opposing pitchers as well. He was the toughest hitter in the senior circuit to strikeout by whiffing just once every 8.4 at bats.

      To put Peraza’s season in perspective let’s look at Barry Larkin‘s age 24 season. Larkin, the greatest shortstop in Cincinnati Reds history, slashed .296/.347/.429 with 12 home runs. Those numbers are eerily similar to Peraza’s. The 182 base hits Peraza collected last year were second most in Reds history for a shortstop trailing only Larkin’s 185 in 1990.”

      • matthew hendley

        I got it, and if he had started with either, the FORM, or the STATs of last year, remotely close to either, I would bring it up less. Its a simple concept. If a player with options is having trouble in the majors, you option them to figure it out. Somehow he is immune from this, and I don’t understand why. I also don’t understand why the reds are not actively pursuing good players that end up in our laps for a ‘something of the future that defenatly isn’t’. I want the Reds to finally refocus on Winning Games, not some phantom, ‘if you play them they will improve’ mantra that isn’t working.

        Sonny made it through 5, looks like he is in line for a W.

      • Indy Red Man

        I’m with Matt!!

        A. Peraza has the same chance to become Larking that I do to become Bill Gates
        B. 182 hits but 270 weak popups to RF that a 7 yr old could catch. Nobody advances. Nobody makes errors on 50 mph popups.
        C. Larkin didn’t walk once a month either?

        Reds catching = Casali, Farmer, Barnhart. Tuck is ok, but I wish I could put him 4th. Tired of watching him get 400 ab’s

    • Indy Red Man

      Kipnis is hitting .176. Scooter to the Indians maybe? I just don’t see the Reds paying him? They had all this time to do something.

      • matthew hendley

        ok, I’ll bite. who worthwhile do they have that we want, that they would trade. Limitation: cant take any MLB ready Pitching prospects, as the current Indians Pitching situation prevents it

      • Indy Red Man

        That I don’t know. I like Clint Frazier with the Yankees. He’s been blocked for a while and the Reds needed a RH bat. I thought that might be worthwhile 1-2 years ago, but Frazier was doing well this year til he got hurt. I just don’t Scooter hanging around. VanMeter homered again tonite and he’s a lefty 2B too.

      • matthew hendley

        3 things.
        1. If you are saying trade someone say who for, or at least the Position or Role. Otherwise what it really sounds like is that there is no plan.
        2. The James Vandemeter phenomenon. There was another guy who had many pedestrian seasons before blowing up the world for a couple months. This person has already returned to earth. I just want to see it be consitiant over a longer period of time. If he is still mashing in June, yea give him a look. But his numbers prior to this year are not…… eyepopping.

        3. Puig with a 2 hit game, I swear I thought he had hurt Longoria

  31. WVRedlegs

    Would the Cardinals keep Scooter and extend him at $10MM to $12MM per year? Especially with Dietrich and Peraza on the roster and Vanmeter tearing up AAA pitching.
    Answer: NO.

      • matthew hendley

        Change 2B to 1B. Martinez (peraza) could have taken it, along with Carpenter (Dietrich), who was later extended as well. The Cardnals go out and collect PG from the DB, (granted in trade vs. FA) and without seeing a Pitch Immediately extend him for 5 years and while I don’t have the numbers in front of me I am sure it was for at least 10-12 mil if not more. So, had the Cardnals need been 2B and Scooter avalible, then yes they would have extended him.

      • WVRedlegs

        Goldschmidt is a yearly MVP candidate. Scooter is, well, is not. Bad, bad comparison. Reds are loaded at 2B, while Cards are not at 1B.
        Scooter is toast.

      • matthew hendley

        Loaded at second base? Dixon and Long are gone, Peraza is a joke, Deitrich is a UT that gets regular and good looks at 1B and LF and is better suited to help the reds that way. I have already addressed VMTR. So to review, your ‘loaded’ is one non 40 roster player that has had a total of ONE good month. That is not the definition of loaded.

        Furthermore, I am not comparing scooter to PG. Its the situation that directly contradicted the comment you made that I was bringing up.

      • matthew hendley

        Oh, and by the way First base options for the cardnals going into the offseason included Matt Carpenter (MLB Ready, obviously) and Jose Martinez (MLB ready). That is stacked at first.

        Incidently, the Birds went ahead and moved a prospect (Martenez, to a different position to keep him in the majors), funny how that works.

    • Indy Red Man

      I know the Cards would & did let Luke Voit go. 9 hrs/26 rbis .940 ops. Glad they didn’t see what I saw

  32. Chris Holbert

    Does Votto have any options?

    • matthew hendley

      Ironically enough, Votto only has used 2 of his three options so Technically yes. However, one you hit 5 years of service time in the Majors you can block most cases of an option to the minors. So no they are not sending him, and he would probably refuse it.

      I swear I thought Senzel was going to miss that, great catch. Shades of Billy (in the field, just in the field).

  33. Chris Holbert

    Votto looks terrible and old……

  34. Old-school

    Senzel with great catch.
    Winker LF
    Senzel CF
    Puig RF.
    Iglesias SS.
    Suarez 3b
    Votto 1b
    Platoon 2b/c.

  35. matthew hendley

    ok Stop messing around. Get the real bullpen in there.

  36. Indy Red Man

    Peralta….can’t say you had me fooled. Maybe the first 5-6 times I thought you could be average

  37. Chris Holbert

    I never thought seriously about the optioning, but he looks terrible and is striking out at a rate I have never seen from him. He looks uncomfortable and is always thinking they are bad calls… 35 I do not ever see Vottoesque numbers again….

  38. Mutton Lettuce Tomato

    Does Barnhart ever make a play at the plate anymore? Seriously, I can’t remember a recent time when he actually catches a throw from the outfielder and makes a tag out in a close play.

  39. D Ray White

    When do the Reds cut bait with Peralta? He’s leveraged a couple good months into a few years. Between Wandy and Duke no bullpen lead is safe.

  40. Chris Holbert

    Should have let Gray go, and had the bullpen ready…..

  41. Roger Garrett

    Peralta does well in April but not the rest of the time.He just turned a laugher in to a game all by himself.

  42. Chris Holbert

    It is definitely Cody Reed time, he cannot do worse…..

    • matthew hendley

      Couldn’t hurt. DFA duke and bring him up

    • Shchi Cossack

      In his last 6 games, Cody Reed:
      8.1 IP, 4-H, 3-BB, 1-HBP, 13-SO, 0-R, 0.00 ERA

  43. MK

    Puig thinks he is in 70’s wearing white belt and white shoes.

  44. Indy Red Man

    Tyler Glasnow lowering his era to 1.47 tonite. 6’8 & throwing 98 mph. Austin Meadows is on the DL, but was hitting .351 (1.097 ops). I think I’d take a few years off if I was a Pirates fan. I knew that was a horrible decision to pay that much for Archer

    • matthew hendley

      Archer is on the IL now isn’t he. Obviously showed the other day how to throw his secret pitch.

  45. Shchi Cossack

    After seeing two very nice defensive plays in CF by Senzel, I think we can safely say that Lorenzen’s opportunities to play defensively as a late inning CF replacement have come and gone.

    • Indy Red Man

      He can still play LF. Winker and Kemp?

      Lorenzen on a 14.1 scoreless streak. Not too many complainers about his pitching lately? Its not like he was terrible last year anyway. The guy is just a ballplayer! I’d like to see him start over Roark

      • Shchi Cossack

        Winker has been playing some pretty good defense lately in both LF and CF. He will never have the speed necessary to excel defensively, but he’s certainly making the effort to improve.

      • Cary Grant

        That because he gives up Inherited runs. DB puts him in with a runner on first and the runner scores with two outs. They he will have runners on 2nd and 3rd and someone will bail him out. Analytics works but so does good ole fashion coaching.

  46. Old-school

    Reds fans go buy the extra large Tums at Costco . Fun to watch but lots of heartburn.

  47. Vada

    Votto needs to be sent to AA, not AAA. How he can accept $186K a game is highway robbery.

    • PhP

      But it wasn’t when he was making peanuts and winning the MVP in 2010? Can’t have it both ways.

      • matthew hendley

        The reds could have Averaged out or frontloaded the contract as well. This is what happen when you backload.

  48. Indy Red Man

    Adrian Gonzalez was never Joey Votto, but he was completely washed up at 35 and out of the game this year (turns 37 next week). Joey won’t be out of the game, but I fear 3-4 Pujols years for Joey….except Pujols homers once in a while and doesn’t run the bases like tee-ball

  49. Chris Holbert

    It takes two hits to score Votto from first….12 HR and 60 RBIs from 1B does not cut it…

  50. Reddawg12

    Winker’s bloop double was hopefully the start of his BABIP starting to normalize.

    • matthew hendely

      Same with Puigs double. The single was legit though

  51. matthew hendley

    Someone needs to explain to David Bell the definition of a long man and why Peraza is not it. Iggy in for the Save.

    • Seat101

      You’re just the guy to teach Bell, aren’t you? Right after you fire the gal/guy in the sound truck.

      • matthew hendley

        As far as the sound truck, someone is in trouble for that. If the question is could I manage better then david bell, possibly, we will never know though lol.

        Peraza with the insurance run……..

      • matthew hendley

        but don’t worry, Detrich will have a three homerun game….oh wait.…. don’t worry winker will have a home run to save it all….oh wait… At least we still have Zack Duke to lead us into extra innings. Scratch what I posted above. Not only could I manage better then David Bell, a good number of people on this site could as well.
        This isn’t a bad luck one run game. This was a 8 run lead. 8 runs. you have to try to blow that.
        Sonny Gray is destined never to win a game here.

  52. matthew hendley

    Is its Sonny Grays destiny just to never get a break in Cincinnati?

  53. WVRedlegs

    I hope Dick Williams huddles up with Giants POBO Farhan Zaidi and start talking trade. Puig for LHRP Will Smith.
    Bring up Cody Reed in the meantime.

    • matthew hendley

      Actually this might work. DFA duke for Reed. Make the trade. Schebler takes over in the short term. In Louisville immediately place everyone’s favorite Minor leaguer into LF for 2-3 weeks. Bring him up when he has the hang of it. Option Peralta, DFA one of the low level minor leaguers, i.e. Jackson stephens.

  54. Roger Garrett

    Total meltdown against a team that is worse then we are on offense.Guess we were due on of these.Good to see the offense do well tonight.Maybe its a start to something good.

  55. WVRedlegs

    I heard a lot of boo’s being lobbed at Schebler after his pinch hit K. His body language shows he is defeated.

  56. MrRed

    Just a fun note from tonight’s game – RLN’s own Doug “Dirt” Gray and erstwhile proprietor Chadwick Dotson getting a nice shoutout from Jeff Senzel on the Fox Sports broadcast! They were among the 45 strong of the Nick Senzel fan club contingent.

    Hope you enjoy the game fellas!

  57. Curt

    Bottom of 8, Schebler and Peraza doing what they do…awesome

  58. Mark Lang

    well – Gray didn’t deserve a win – so there’s that.

  59. Chris Holbert

    Sonny Gray just turned in his resignation…..

  60. Seat101

    My five-year-old gets up at 7:30 every day of the week. I get up at 7:30:30.

    Time for this one to go to bed. Bring home a winner will you folks?

  61. Roger Garrett

    Thought yesterday was a bummer and it was but the Reds won’t recover from this one.You always win some you shouldn’t and lose some you shouldn’t but this one is one that should never happen.WOW

  62. Chris Holbert

    Is it me or is Thom the king of hyperbole and annoying, it was better when there was sound trouble…

    • Broseph

      “Are you kidding me”. No Thom, we’re dead serious about this.

  63. matthew hendley

    Puig…today is the day for a 3 hit game

    • matthew hendley

      guess not…. our hero is……….oh never mind

  64. Broseph

    I hate to say it, I really do. He’s my favorite Red of all time. But I think Votto has officially hit the age decline

    • Mark Lang

      Decline? He’s dropped completely off the radar. He’s actually a detriment to the team.

  65. Ted

    Once again our manager doesn’t have any faith in the staryer, for no reason considering the situation. He pulls Sonny Gray after he pitches devently through five, coming back in the 5th after temporarily losing his control in the 4th. He’s thrown 82 pitches and up 9-3. There was no reason to pull him then, he easily could have pitched one to two more innings but he is intent on burning through the bullpen and here we are tied up. If you’re not going to leave a starter in past five innings when he’s up 9 to 3 and has thrown 82 pitches when exactly are you going to let a starter stay in the game?

    • matthew hendley

      not to mention, pulling a guy with 2 HR in a game in the middle of that game. Pulling the best hitter. The only Bright note is that SF has burnt through the good pitchers in their bullpen. While we have not used all the good ones.

  66. Chris Holbert

    DB has overmanaged tonight. Gray had at least one more inning. Let him go to 100 pitches…why would he even think Scheler for Winker, double switch or not….down to Hughes and Hernandez…..and Duke….ugh…..I bet they face more than one batter….

    • Curt

      Gray completely lost his command and the Giants knew it. He barely made it through the 5th. I don’t think taking him out was a bad move, just a shame that he had to.

  67. matthew hendley

    Peraza in LF? I got Keeping Suarez in, and the preference to to keep Farmer in…. but schebler for all his faults is actually an OF

  68. Ted

    As to Votto, he doesn’t even look like the same player. Anymore I basically expect him to never come up big in any big situation and pretty much walk or strikeout. Of course, it’s such a big surprise that a guy who’s 35 years old doesn’t have much left in the tank…but we’re stuck for another five years at 25 million a yearwith a contract you can never unload. Another brilliant decision by the Reds Brain Trust, like signing Homer long term instead of Cueto. It’s going to be very, very difficult for the Reds to fully turn this around with the albatross that is Votto’s contract hanging around their neck. He was never very good defensively and really the only thing he was good at was hitting and his OBP…and now the hitting is basically gone. Essentially he’s a singles hitter who walks a lot because he doesn’t show Power very often anymore.

    • matthew hendley

      ‘He was never very good defensively’ Just wondering who he stole that gold glove from.

      • matthew hendley

        And he was a top 3 finalist for the GG last year as well,

      • da bear

        McCutcheon also won a GG for CF and in retrospect it was never deserved. Votto, like Cutch, won his gold glove when GGs were handed out like candy to guys who displayed offensive prowess. Votto hasn’t fielded well in many years, and he has never fielded as well as guys like Hosmer.

        Keep in mind first basemen in general are poor defenders with limited range compared to the other infield positions.

      • matthew hendley

        Joey Votto has been a Gold Glove finalist more often then not this decade. While he has only won the one the continuous top 3 finishes obviously show that in fact Defense is not his problem. GG nominations also were not handed out based on Offensive prowess. If that were the case, I shall wait on How Billy Hamilton got so many nominations.

        I believe I will be waiting a long time indeed.

      • da bear

        When cutch won his GG for CF, years later the stats showed he had negative defensive zone ratings. Of course he used to put up awesome offensive numbers back then. Votto has long had a habit of short arming balls and not getting in front of grounders. Votto improved last year after three or four years of being terrible on the field.

        If you followed baseball pre stat era you’d know GGs were often handed out to non defensive greats.

        And I’d venture to say even in this era of defensive stat gathering if BH was putting up Tim Raines or Rickey Henderson like offensive stats he might have won two or three GGs by now.

      • matthew hendley

        Oh please…. you know what your right, they take some random people and place them in the Gold Glove finalist section and then just choose the best hitters as the best Defenders.

        Just admit it, you put out blatantly false information and got called out on it. And instead of admitting your mistake, you went and put out even more blatantly false information.
        There has never been a pre stat Era. Players were caring about Stats in the days of Cy Young. The Phrase that you were probably looking for is Advance Stats. While there are many that have shown improvement in the tracking of players ability (especially the batting related stats)there are others that still need some work (fielding being the most glaring example). Billy lost the GG competitions because the other player was slightly better then him. Simple as that.

    • Patrick Jeter

      You don’t understand how contracts work. You pay for the value up front because that is what the market bears. No one is productive at the end of their contract. Even Mike Trout will be an albatross to his team at the end.

      Votto has already earned every penny.

      He did mention retiring if he sucks, though. So if he’s really declining and this isn’t just an early year slump them he may just retire in the next 2 years and let the Reds off the hook.

      • da bear

        The Reds would have been far better off letting some other team bear Joey Votto’s market the last five and the next five years. The Reds have stunk the last five years and if they succeed over the next five it will be in spite of the contract handed to Votto.

        Never overpay for production.

        Sure Votto was underpaid his first few years – that’s the system that was negotiated between owners and players whereby players who are productive in their first four or five years are severely underpaid. That doesn’t mean you should follow up by overpaying for past production. You let the big market teams with 3x to 5x the Reds revenue make those mistakes.

  69. Mark Lang

    ?!! Those last 2 pitches…. and he swung?

  70. matthew hendley

    peraza I have given up hope on, but casali swinging on back to back OBVIOUS ball4s….. no. Onward and upward.

  71. Patrick Jeter

    What in the absolute heck is up with Curt Casali… He obviously only guesses at pitches and has no ability to read them. I guess that is why he’s a backup catcher. Oh well.

    Worst at bat I think I’ve ever seen.

    • Curt

      “Worst at bat” ..You mean except for all the previous ones by Schebler and Peraza…and Votto

  72. Chris Holbert

    Maybe DB thinks he has to use a certain amount of relievers every game….someone should tell him starters are allowed to throw more than 85 pitches in a game and no days off until next Monday…..

  73. matthew hendley

    So Many mistakes by David Bell tonight. Sonny Gray fighting through 5 innings. Peralta placed in for 2 innings. The double switches of Winker and Deitrich. Misuse of the bullpen again. Obviously there are people that are going to make excuses for him again, but when you are spotted an 8 run lead you must win. There isn’t an excuse. Reds must miracle this one. So naturally DB brings duke on.

    Senzel looks legit though so there is that.

    • Curt

      Yeah, Senzel looked more comfortable at the plate than half the regulars…so there’s that.
      I can’t remember why he did it but I don’t get at all why you would take Dietrich out of the game unless you had no other choice. So score one for the over-managing choir.

  74. RedAlert

    This game ought to do wonders for attendance . not impressed with Bell at all

    • RedAlert

      no excuse for this , none – Bell overmanahed and mismanaged this entire game away

  75. Chris Holbert

    They say have left arm will travel….Duke should take his left arm and travel out of town….

  76. Chris Holbert

    DB is managing the Reds right into a loss tonight.

  77. Matthew

    I’m a very faithful Reds fan, but after this game tonight (not to mention the last 4 seasons) I think I’m going to take a break for a while. Disheartening doesn’t even begin to describe it.

  78. Scott Gennett

    Time to start thinking about Votto’s future role with the club, as well as Schebler, Peraza and Kemp.

    • Broseph

      It’s really hard to say it about Votto. We’re talking about the same guy that was hitting .220 in June in 17 to finish runner up in MVP voting.

      This year just feels different though, he looks lost, guessing, flailing. Just not the Votto we’ve come to know. Hope he can rekindle that dying spark.

  79. matthew hendley

    Quite simply David bell lost this game tonight. If he says anything to the contrary during the Post game interview he should be fired.

  80. Mark Lang

    We’ve become the Washington Generals – we find a way to make the other team a winner.

  81. Chris Holbert

    Can we re-think our answers on DB’s first month…..that was horrible game management…maybe the offensive struggles can partly be attributed no one ever knowing where or if they are going to play….consistency does play a role in the game…the Reds may have the most players who have played the most positions in the majors this year….and that is not a good thing….

  82. Chris Holbert

    It is possible to over think and over manage….proof tonight……awful….someone needs to tell DB he can just sit and watch once in a while……

  83. Curt

    Mad at myself as much as anything for wasting 5 hours of my life on this joke of a game. I could feel it coming when Peralta was in.

    Until this team can figure out a functional starting 8 that they can just.. ‘let play’, it’ll be more of the same.

    Until this team finds the guts to make big bold moves instead of all the micro ones, it’ll be more of the same.

    I feel bad for Bell. Tough position, coaching a team with a FO that’s too afraid get off the fence.

    At the end of the day, the team needs new ownership and with it, a new culture. One that’s proactive instead of reactive.

    Yeah, it’s baseball and yeah, it’s just one game but still…it’s sad.

    • Wayne nabors

      Why you feel sorry for bell,this loss clearly on him,he is in way over his head

      • matthew hendley

        ditto, 3 clear dumb mistakes on the part of the manager and I am not counting removing Gray as one of them.