Ken Rosenthal with a bit of speculation:

There are a bunch of explanations for a short delay in announcing the trade. But this is one of them.

Update: Jon Heyman now says the Reds are indeed efforting.

More Heyman:

109 Responses

  1. Steve Mancuso

    Maybe Rosenthal had a source for this, but not enough to confirm. So he posed it as speculation.

  2. Seat101

    The trade makes a little more sense, now. I guess the Reds think that they will receive at least one compensatory draft pick after the season and that could help make up for the sandwich round pick they are trading.

  3. Matt Hendley

    This is interesting. So glad i am getting up to date speculation….excuse me reporting from MLBTR. Depending on the extension will depend on the trade will depend on the reaction. So glad we went from out of it to extentions of him.

  4. Bred

    Way too much to give up. Getting fleeced again by the Yanks as they want to dump him. He is not that good.

    • Bob Purkey

      As I noted on the other thread. Long being in the deal does not help the Yankees, as he is on the Reds 40-man roster so that would still have NY 1 man over with the signing of Ottavino. Somebody else has to be involved here. I think maybe Gardner who is 35 YO on a 1 year $7.5MM and $2.0MM buyout. Is Gardner a 10 and 5 guy who has to approve a trade? Maybe Frazier? Either or gets them to their 40-man.

      • Colorado Red

        Too many outfielders for the Reds now.
        No way on Clint.
        Doubt they want Grardner, Might be a 40 man issue for the Reds in that case.

      • Bob Purkey

        Not if you move Kemp and his $21MM less $7.0MM that LA kicked in.

    • Steve Mancuso

      The combined average surplus value of an organization’s #8 prospect and a 35-40 is pretty small and well into the future. Hard to see that as a “fleece.” This isn’t Aroldis Chapman.

      • RedFuture

        It appears to me to be a fleece when you compare what the Yankees gave up to get Gray and bonus money when there was 2.5 years of control of Gray’s contract:
        uly 31, 2017: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with international bonus slot money to the New York Yankees for James Kaprielian (minors), Jorge Mateo (minors) and Dustin Fowler.

      • Steve Mancuso

        Sounds almost identical to me. Three top-12 Yankee prospects, including #4 at the time.

    • Michael E

      When you look at his pitches, even in a bad last season, he has as good as stuff as anyone on our team. Using pitcherlist.com analysis, looks like that sinker, slider and change up all generate good GB% and are generally solid or good pitches. If PC Johnson can tweak a thing or two, Gray could easily be a top 10 NL SP and a poor-man’s ace. If, if, if…but still, I am fine with trading Long and a pick for a shot at a psuedo-ace.

      pitcherlist.com/sonny-gray/ (scroll down to see pitch examples and analysis)

  5. CFD3000

    Except for dropping “efforting” in there Steve I really appreciate this update. The “almost done” rumors have been flying and I keep refreshing RLN and other sites to get the final details – to no avail. But this a) makes sense, b) is a relief knowing that the deal is still on, and c) adds to the appeal of the trade. The Reds have lots of position prospects to help the team this year, next and 2021, but pitching prospects are fewer and less certain. So all this accumulation of starters who will be free agents next year concerns me. I wish they were trying to extend Alex Wood instead of (or in addition to) Sonny Gray, and I wish they were signing Dallas Keuchel instead of trading for Gray. But given this trade is imminent I like the extension and hope it gets done.

    • Colorado Red

      This trade would mean they could not get Klubber or sign Dallas.
      Hope is not a strategy, so the extension, (depending on the cost) concerns me.

      • scotly50

        I asked Krall about Kluber and Kuechel, at the autograph table in Nashville Friday night. He said< "he did not see Kluber happening at all", and then asked Him about Keuchel, and he shook his head no.

        Tucker was sitting near Krall and when I brought up Kluber, he said, "Yeah, that would be nice".

      • Matt Hendley

        Good to see the players aint drinking the coolaid. You should have told them to stop by the carolinas.

    • greenmtred

      The “efforting” bothered me deeply. The trade makes little sense to me unless they sign him to an extension, in which case it seems like a reasonable gamble.

  6. WVRedlegs

    This is a stupid negotiating tactic. I’m sure the Reds could have gotten word somehow that Gray would consider an extension without having to pay the Yankees for it. They trade the CB-A pick for the extension more or less. Just foolish.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Reds can’t talk to Gray without Yankee permission. Terms of deal will be influenced by whether Gray agrees. Maybe the Reds aren’t interested without the assurance of the extension. Trading the CB-A pick for the extension sounds fine to me.

      • WVRedlegs

        True. But given the relationship between Gray and Johnson, I would hazard the guess that the Reds have already been granted this by the Yankees and should have been in communication with Gray or his reps early on.

  7. WVRedlegs

    The Reds should get more than Sonny Gray and an extension for Shed Long and that CB-A pick. If this all that comes from this trade, Dick Williams and Company should take trading lessons from Brian Cashman. This will make the score Brian Cashman 2, Reds front office 0.
    Maybe then Williams could learn how to trade Scooter and get a nice return.

    • HoF-13

      Every time I think about the Chapman trade, I think that was a Bob C move more than a front office move. Even though I have very low regard for the Reds front office of the recent past, I can’t believe they were that inept on their own. I can’t believe any GM of the last 20 years or any semi-knowledgeable fan would have considered that close to equal compensation. I think ownership said, I want Chapman gone by such and such. Take whatever you can get. Most teams were scared off from offering anything – they didn’t know what the Commissioners Office would do. The front office had to make a choice with no reasonable choices to choose from. It was the worst possible moment to make the trade.

      • B-town Fan

        The Reds had a good trade with the Dodgers set to go for Chapman but then he went and shot his garage up and the Dodgers pulled out and that was that.

      • Matt Hendley

        The chapman return from the dogers was going to be what we did get from the dogers in the white sox 3way trade. We could have then used fraizer elsewhere

      • doctor

        Don’t forget the missed Chapman trade to Arizona at the trade deadline that year as another missed chance.

      • ToBeDetermined

        HoF-13

        Agreed. It look like a directive rather than a negotiation.

  8. SteveLV

    Seems like evaluating the trade should wait until we know whether there is an extension and the terms. Reuniting Gray with Johnson for three or four years at a good price is quite a bit different than a one year rental.

    • TurboBuckeye

      Totally agree. If the Reds get a good deal on the extension it’ll be worth it. Otherwise, Long for Gray is probably a slight overpay. But not a huge one. I for one like Gray’s upside.

  9. Telecaster

    I’d rather extend the younger/left handed Wood.

    • CP

      Agreed I would prefer that too, but Wood has to be interested as well. Personally I was hoping they would get a half season with Wood, let him grow to love the city and team, and then proceed to try and extend him. Looks like they are trying the same thing with Gray, but just way earlier. I’m just glad to see them thinking outside the box and taking shots at getting the pitching. My biggest concern is what are we getting? Will it be the Gray of old or the Gray of recent? How long/much will the contract be for?

      • Shchi Cossack

        If Gray joins the Reds rotation in 2019, there is simply no more room for a significant starter from outside the organization, so that means no Keuchel and no Kluber. That leaves $$$ available for the 2019 season and $$$ were already available for the 2020 season and beyond. The Reds could easily extend both Gray and Wood, if they can agree on reasonable contracts. That would be a HUGE win for the Reds baseball ops.

      • ToBeDetermined

        Shchi

        If what you say is true then I would assume that’s because they know (and we don’t know) that they won’t be able to bring in Keuchel or Kluber within acceptable parameters. So this becomes plan B as such.

    • Michael E

      The only plus with extending Gray instead of Wood is, HOPEFULLY, buying a bit low. Wood isn’t to be extended cheaply, Gray shouldn’t break the bank. I no longer can hazard sane guesses, but surely Gray won’t be more than $8-12 mill per season given his struggles, stat-wise. I’d hope less, but few SPs make less than 10 mill these days.

      If the Reds overpay on extension buying too much the influence of Johnson, then yeah, we can be peeved, but even then it may pay off. I am still just freaking glad the Reds FO is trying and by that, not just adding one so-so pitcher, but three that have all been above average for at least half their careers. Roark and Gray had some bad seasons, but the stuff is there to be better than anyone the Reds currently have in the rotation, even Castillo. I am hopeful Castillo makes a nice jump under Johnson. If so, and adding in that two of the three, Wood/Roark/Gray, should prove to be above average and we have, at worst, an average starting rotation, with top 5 NL upside. If we get to 5th best rotation or better, given we jettisoned the worst hitting OF in baseball, we should be in the thick of the playoff hunt, albeit likely wild-card, in September.

      In fact, no NL Central team is without warts, so the Reds have a legitimate shot at the division. It might take good health and some regression from other NL clubs, but Reds are better than the Pirates right now and I’d argue just a tick below the three-way tie of Cards (good, not great at hitting and pitching), Cubs (better hitting, mediocre rotation) and Brewers (better hitting, mediocre rotation)

      • Redleg 75

        If I’m Gray, 3/$54 gets it done. That’d be a bit more than the qualifying offer each year.

        I’m certain the Reds are starting lower than that, of course.

        Either way, here’s hoping they get it done. Outside of Bronx, he was good. Still gets 50% grounders. DJohnson working with him couldn’t hurt.

  10. Matt Hendley

    What is the over under on this post having 100 comments bbefore the trade is finalized.

  11. DougEFresh

    Gray for Long straight-up would have worked just fine for me. Draft picks are just way too valuable in this day and age. Sure, try for an extension once he’s in the fold, but if we can’t extend him, so be it. He is yet another guy that either gets dealt at the deadline or is given a QO at season’s end.

    It’s going to take outstanding seasons from all of the newly acquired players to make this team a legitimate threat. If that happens, at least 3 or 4 of them can net decent draft picks from qualifying offers. They will all be motivated to perform well before hitting free agency. If July rolls around and playoff hopes look grim, ship them all out for younger, cost-controlled talent at the deadline. Spend big on free agents next off-season and keep the farm loaded.

    I hope this is what the FO is thinking. This off-season could be setting us up for a good long run of contention.

  12. James

    With the season he had last year, I would rather see how he responds than sign him up front. Ya, might cost more or u might even lose him. But would be worse if he reapeats last year’s results after signing for 3 more.

  13. Mark

    Here’s the thing where is Shed going to play on the Reds? I truly believe this is a vote of confidence for Scooter that they are going to work on an extension for him to remain our second baseman for 2-3 year extension. India is capable and we know Senzel plays second as well so this is not like trading them Siri Trammel Siani or Friedl. I also echo the sentiment to try and extend Wood.

    • B-town Fan

      Sheldon said on his podcast on the Reds website that he talked to Scooter on the caravan and he told Sheldon that he really wanted one but the Reds aren’t going to sign him to an extension, so he’ll play out the year, and enjoy himself, and be a free agent at the end of the season.

  14. WVRedlegs

    Heyman says the Reds are after free agent reliever Shawn Kelley along with Red Sox and others. He is 35, got DFA’d by Washington after throwing a temper tantrum on the mound. He did well in Oakland afterwards though. He is RH. Big fly ball pitcher. Not a Jared Hughes clone at all.
    Rather see them after a LH reliever. It would be nice to see a reliever coming over with Gray from the Yankees though.

    • CP

      Yeah I’m glad to see them looking to add to the bullpen, but a fly ball guy could be risky. So long as he is good though that’s what really matters. Good pitchers are good no matter the ballpark. They find a way because they are better than the batter in the box more times than not.

  15. DocProc

    An extension to Gray would make this trade much, much more palatable.
    Like others, I’m guessing the draft pick comes off the trade table if they can’t extend Gray.

  16. scottya

    I’m joining the chorus to extend the outfield wall. LOL, I’d like to see them announce this at some opportune time this season, to aid with signing pitchers next offseason. The media is pounding the daylights out of this (no pitcher would want to sign and play ag gabp). The worst was the one about “i’d rather pitch on the moon”; comment by one mlb network analyst last week. This cycle of talk only perpetuates the (truth) that gabp is hard on era’s and pitchers.

    Also, while at it extend sonny and alex wood. I’m guessing if we can’t extend Gray; Tommy Kahnle and a few million dollars are coming to the Reds. If we can extend Gray; Kahnle and maybe no money or less millions come to the Reds.

    Plenty of $$$ left to continue to add to this club.

    1. Realmuto
    2. Inciarte, K. Hernandez, O. Herrera, M Margot, ??
    3. sign one or two relievers = trade some of our relievers for a Cf’r?
    4. Trade a corner outfielder = for a Cf’r or upgrade??

    • Doug Gray

      It’s been written about that moving the wall back is almost impossible. Something to do with utility or power lines or something like that.

      • Scottya

        That’s unfortunate if correct. I hadn’t read that news. One would think at least some area could be extended. Center or bullpen areas?

      • ToBeDetermined

        We sent a man to the moon like 50 years ago. But, we can’t move a wall in Cincinnati. Nor can Washington build a wall. (not tryin to be political)

      • CI3J

        They could at least make the wall higher, right? I’m not talking the Green Monster or anything, but if they raised the wall by, say, 2 feet all around the park, that should cut back quite a bit on those “GABP Specials” that wouldn’t be out in almost any other park, right?

      • D Ray White

        Alternatively, they could raise the walls a bit and eliminate the first 5-6 rows. Or, selectively raise them in a few areas. The outfield layout is homogenous, boring, and bland. How about a mini Red Monster, or eliminate a few rows, build a slight incline a la Crosley, and keep a 8-10 foot wall at the top of the incline?

      • D Ray White

        Translation: It won’t be cheap, so Big Bob ain’t doing it.

    • Joey

      Happ wouldn’t sign with us and presumably Kuechel as well. It’s hard to get too excited about this coming year but between our rotation plus capable backups, bullpen, and potent lineup it’s hard not to be really optimistic about this teams potential. Not to mention that we should still have some money to upgrade another position if the team wants.

      • greenmtred

        A number of people have speculated that Keuchel doesn’t want to come to Cincy. It may be true, but he hasn’t signed anywhere yet, so it may not be true.

  17. Joe Shmoe

    Every move the Reds make or have made sucks and I’m not going to let facts deter my thinking. Nor will I give the transaction time to play out before properly evaluating. Yankees are using Jedi mind tricks to screw them over as continued retribution for the ’76 Series sweep.

    Signed,
    Average Fan

    • greenmtred

      That’s the spirit, Joe. The Yankees will need to do a lot more than trade Gray for Long if they want to expunge the humiliation of ’76.

    • CI3J

      Just curious. What (realistic) moves do you believe the Reds should have made?

      • Joe Shmoe

        I thought my snark and sarcasm was dripping through, a lot of these comments are insufferable. The Reds have been terrible for 5 years and people are against them trading superfluous PROSPECTS for now 5 players who are better than who they will replace on the roster. I’ve been pretty satisfied with their moves, 2019 Reds are far better than the 2018 version.

        Until proven otherwise I’m giving this incantation of the brain trust the benefit of the doubt that they have a plan for next 12 months with so many guys they have acquired already going to be FA. I’m very curious; they’re moving pieces on a chessboard that we can’t see. I am curious why there’s this notion that this move would preclude anything else, ie Kluber or Keuchel. This team still needs a CF and still has too many corner OF so there are certainly moves to be made. I’ll grant that it’s not likely that they’d acquire either of those but it was never a certainty in the first place

    • ToBeDetermined

      I love it.
      You signed the comment as “Average Fan”
      and your nickname is “Joe Schmoe”

      • ToBeDetermined

        Joe S.

        Sometimes I read the comments so fast, when there are long threads like this one, that I’ll occasionally miss the subtlety of the comment.

      • greenmtred

        I got the sarcasm. Were you also being sarcastic when you said “superfluous prospects?”

      • Joe Shmoe

        Green: how aren’t Long, Downs, and Josiah Gray superfluous? Long is behind Scooter, Senzel, and India on the team’s depth charts and isn’t a good defender PLUS the latter 2 are younger. Downs is yet another 2B who’s much further away from MLB than all of the above. And Gray is a pitching prospect in low A who looked great but it’s a long way away. Maybe they’ll all have great careers but I’ll bet on who they have or will soon have.

      • Joe Shmoe

        And ToBe- I thank you! Subtlety is lost on the web by and large

      • greenmtred

        Joe: I plead guilty to un-thorough reading of your comment. I see now that you were referring to the prospects already traded, not Senzel, Trammell, Greene, etc.

  18. scottya

    Regarding the draft pick. If we trade the draft pick do we keep the total $$’s (slot $) available to sign all of our draft picks in the 19′ draft or do we lose some of that $$ along with trading the Comp pick??

    • Shchi Cossack

      The $$$ go with the draft pick.

  19. Aaron

    One big positive about Gray, his HR/IP has always been very low, a good marker for success at GABP. Facing the opposing pitcher in the order should also help him escape more jams. It could be a very nice fit, let’s hope they extend him. Long is supposed to be a good hitter, but he wasn’t going to make the club anytime soon, his defense is questionable, not a big cost as compared to signing Keuchel for a king’s ransom.

    • VaRedsFan

      That could be because he pitched in Oakland.

      • Aaron

        … yea but his HR/9 it remained low as a Yankee as well. 1.5 HR/9 in 2017 is pretty much the same as Oakland 2016 (1.4).

        I don’t think he is mediocre at all and if the Reds can sign him for reasonable price it makes sense to do so.

    • LWBlogger2

      Aaron … 1.5 HR/9 isn’t very good at all. The AL average for HR/9 was 1.22 last season. The AL average was 1.09.

      • LWBlogger2

        Whoops… The NL average was 1.09. AL was 1.22

  20. VaRedsFan

    I don’t get why they are so determined to sign such a mediocre to an extension. Extend Wood maybe, and Castillo. What if he continues to underwhelm this year?? Then you are stuck with him for 2-3-4 more years.

    • Corky Miller

      Mediocre? Do some research.

      Dude is a former 1st rnd pick, already an All Star, and was a team’s #1 starter.

      He’s age 29 this season, and the list of guys that struggled in NY is long.

      He’s coming from the AL East to NL, that should cancel out any impact GABP has.

      He’s going to be back under the tutelage of DJ, this could be a major steal for another 2nd baseman we don’t need.

      The only concern I have is he’s a sinker baller, and the Reds infield defense isn’t a strength.

      Otherwise I’d expect the same 3.00-3.50 ERA and 12-15 wins throughout the extension.

      • VaRedsFan

        I don’t mind giving up Long for him. I just don’t want to be throwing extensions to him coming off a sub par year. The hitters in the NL central are just as mighty as toronto, baltimore, tampa, and Boston

  21. Matt WI

    So yes, extending Wood over Gray would be ideal, but I’m just trying to appreciate the Reds are doing something to address the pitching. For all the hand wringing over losing young talent or talent yet to be drafted, we have to recognize just HOW BAD the pitching has been. All the Shed Longs in the world don’t matter when the team is getting lit up like a Christmas tree like the past seasons. For Cincy, adding even a league average pitcher is progress compared to Harvey and Bailey. And Romano. And Finnegan. And Bob Steve. Etc. I’d rather try this direction than the one they’ve been on.

  22. Matt Hendley

    I am begining to understand the delay on this trade. At first the yankees thought we were trying to trade a pickle sandwich for gray….not a sandwich pick

    • Matt WI

      The Reds thought maybe it would be a good side with a NY corned beef on rye

      • ToBeDetermined

        So where do you get a good corned beef in downtown NY since Carnegie’s Delicatessen closed ?
        or anywhere else for that matter ?

      • TR

        A good corned beef? Try Katz Deli on the Lower East Side.

      • ToBeDetermined

        Matt
        mmmm that does look good.
        Now, if I could just find a good corned beef in the Midwest.
        Is that really too much to ask ?

      • LWBlogger2

        @ToBeDetermined

        Not sure where you are in the midwest but there is a place in Cleveland (yes, Cleveland) that has fantastic corned beef. “Big” Al’s Deli – Swing by 1717 E 9th St. Suite 101.

  23. WVRedlegs

    Rosenthal says not to expect something tonight. Reds have a 72 hour window to negotiate with Gray. Deadline is Monday night. Midnight I believe.
    The saga continues.

    • Shchi Cossack

      A 72-hr window that ends on Monday night…the negotiation window was all day Saturday, today and tomorrow, yet not a whiff of the most important details of the trade, except what the NYY ‘sources’ selectively released to their own benefit…really shoddy ‘reporting’. Kudos to the Reds for their professionalism thru the negotiations.

    • Shchi Cossack

      How fitting would it be if the Reds are not able to successfully negotiate an extension and the trade goes thru with Longhi and Willems for Gray…period! Then the Reds are capable of negotiating an extension without a 72-hr deadline facing them.

      • B-town Fan

        Where did you here Jonathan Willems was part of the trade.

  24. matt hendley

    Imagine that…. Another delay

  25. Tom Mitsoff

    Rosenthal just reported this in an article on The Athletic: Reds met J.A. Happ’s request for three-year guarantee, and offered the highest amount of guaranteed money. But Happ accepted a two-year guarantee from the Yankees with a vesting option for 2021. Rosenthal indicates that Happ’s desire to be on a winning team and the obstacle that GABP presents in the minds of many pitchers as the reasons.

    It does appear that the effort to spend some money has been legitimate and sincere. In the same article, Rosenthal speculates that Gray would likely accept an extension in the $8 to $10 million range annually.

    • Matt Hendley

      If thats the case kutchel has turned us down already.

      • ToBeDetermined

        Matt,
        I think your right.
        More than likely that’s why the Front office is really trying to make this work for Gray. Else, save the money and use it on Keutchel. But, if that’s a no go then this makes perfect sense.

  26. Phil

    These are the Steamer projects for our 4 presumptive starting pitchers:
    Castillo – 29 starts, 2.6 fWAR
    DeSclafani – 23 starts, 1.5 fWAR
    Wood – 26 starts, 2.1 fWAR
    Roark – 26 starts, 1.5 fWAR

    Steamer only currently projects Sonny Gray at 24 innings. I assume because of no clear role on the Yankees. If we just assume he will duplicate his last season that is another 23 starts worth 1.7 fWAR.

    That would give our 5 primary starting pitchers 127 starts worth 9.4 fWAR. Lets assume the remaining 35 starts are splits between Mahle, Reed, Lorenzen, Romano, Stephenson, etc. and are just replacement level at 0 fWAR.

    9.4fWAR from our starting rotation would have been right at league average last season. The Pirates, Twins and Brewers were ranked 15-17 with 10.1, 9.6 and 9.4 fWAR.

    The subtraction of Hamilton and the addition of Puig and hopefully Senzel should improve on what was a league-average offense last season.

    If the guys who got pushed out of the rotation plus the new pitching coach can improve the bullpen to at least average, there is starting to be real reason to optimistic about this coming season.

  27. Steve Schoenbaechler

    The FO may be trying to do this. However, I still don’t think this is going to do anything to “finalize” our starting rotation.

    Will Gray make our starting rotation better than it was last year? I will say yes, but not nearly as much as it would in getting Kluber or Dallas.

    And, though one could be wrong here, but if we bring in Gray, I believe we may be done with our starting pitching search. For, if we got Dallas or Kluber, then with Wood and Roark, teamed with Castillo, we still had one position for a #5 pitcher, perfect for one of the young studs to be able to come in with little pressure on them, unlike what they’ve had in recent years. If Gray finalizes our starting pitching search, I see an upgrade in our starting pitching, but not enough to be a contender.

    (Mind you, I specified contender. For me, I’m considering a small but decent chance of winning the division. I’m not considering that we would be the favorite.)

    And, then, if Gray doesn’t finalize our starting pitching rotation, and we still go out and get Dallas or Kluber, then we have no room for any of the young studs to be able to develop up here.

    Is going after Gray a “good move”? Yes, I will say so. The “smart move”? I don’t think so.

  28. WVRedlegs

    Heyman tweeted this morning that the Reds are optimistic to get a deal done with Gray before their deadline tonight. But Heyman also said if no deal reached between Reds and Gray, the Yankees will probably pivot to talk to other teams.
    Today may be do or die for the Reds where Sonny Gray is concerned.

    • Mark Moore

      I’m thinking it’s do-or-die for the Yankees with our prospects. They seem to want what we have and are offering. If there were a bunch of other teams, Gray would have been moved a month or two ago.

  29. Mark Moore

    The chatter on MLBTR runs the spectrum from hilarious to ridiculous. At least our comments here on RLN show the vast majority understand how a trade like this works (or will honestly ask if we don’t).

    Whatever happens, we’ll know by this evening when the 72-hour window expires. If he’s a Red, I’d wager it’s either because we gave up less than expected for a 1-year rental or we got a solid contract that covers 3 years (plus maybe an option).

    Gray looks to be an upgrade to me and I’m still in the camp that says a good pitching coach and change of scenery will help him. Well, that and getting out of Yankee stadium’s spotlight.

  30. Matt Hendley

    Thisn is starting to get ridiculous. Either he extends or he doesn’t. If it falls through….i would pivot to seatle and mike leake again

    • WVRedlegs

      I just can’t get on board with acquiring Mike Leake. He is owed $37MM over next 2 seasons, $16MM, $16MM, and $5MM buyout on a $18MM option for 2021. That is what Kluber gets paid. Seattle won’t pay much of that $37MM.

      • Old-school

        Don’t the Cardinals pay the Mariners $9 million more on that contract?

    • BK

      I’d pivot to Gio Gonzalez or Wade Miley. Leake is comparable from a performance standpoint, but too expensive (contract/prospects).

  31. Matt Hendley

    Now the yankees are saying they have multiple teams interested. Talk about the mediforcal circle.

    • Mark Moore

      And the wheels on the bus go round and round …

  32. Gilbert Keith Chesterton

    Shed Long is the approx the Reds’ #7 / #8 prospect depending on who you ask.

    Looking back a decade, the Reds’ #7 / #8 prospects have been:

    2008 Devin Mesoraco & Drew Stubbs
    2009 Zach Stewart & Kyle Lotzkar
    2010 Brad Boxberger & Travis Wood
    2011 Donnie Joseph & Didi Gregorius
    2012 Kyle Lotzkar & Neftali Soto
    2013 Daniel Corcino & David Holmberg
    2014 Phil Ervin & Alex Blandino
    2015 Cody Reed & Rookie Davis
    2106 Tyler Mahle & Luis Castillo
    2017 Shed Long & Tyler Stephenson

    From that list, Didi is a good player. Castillo (and possibly Mahle) could become a good starting pitcher. But the rest are guys who you could easily have done without and not lost any sleep at night.

    Who knows how Shed will do when, and if, he ever reaches the major leagues. Currently, he’s comparable to Chris Valaika with less defense. And a #3 starting pitcher in the major leagues probably brings them more value than anything Shed Long ever gives them.

    • Doug Gray

      The problem with this kind of analysis is that the #7/8 prospect in a given year is not just equal to the #7/8 prospect in another year.

      Fangraphs had Long as a Top 75 prospect at mid-season despite being the #7/8 prospect in the organization (I don’t think he’s a Top 100 guy – but just giving an example of what he’s viewed as from a national perspective, at least in Kiley and Eric’s view).

      • ToBeDetermined

        Doug

        So do you agree that Shed Long has “clunky footwork” and may need to find a new position rather than 2nd base? *
        Or do you think that is just the Yankees trying to devalue him in order to get more from the trade ?

        * like where else is he going to play. Unless it’s a DH

  33. Mark Moore

    MLBTR update … nothing to update but fast approaching 800 comments.

    RLN is far more entertaining on this topic, as we would expect.

  34. WVRedlegs

    T minus 6 hours and 47 minutes for Reds to sign Sonny Gray. Tick-tock.

  35. Matt Hendley

    Its done…being announced as official. Also under 100 comments…i guess we are all slipping….details out shortly

    • JayTheRed

      Yup 3 sources say a deal is done. Extension too is happening. I am anxious to see who we gave up.