The Short Version: Four consecutive years with at least 90 losses. Go Reds?

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (66-90) 1 6 2
Miami Marlins (61-93) 5 7 0
W: Urena (8-12) L: DeSclafani (7-7) S: Steckenrider (5)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–Gabby Guerrero hit his first big league home run in the eighth inning. It snapped a nineteen inning scoreless streak for our favorite team.

The Bad
–The Reds have scored one run in the last two games against one of the worst teams in baseball.

–Anthony DeSclafani gave up five runs (three earned) in 5.2 IP. He did strike out ten, but also made two errors (hence the unearned runs).

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–Six games remaining. 56 innings.

–That’s four consecutive 90-loss seasons for the Reds. If Cincinnati goes 2-4 the rest of the way, it’ll be the third straight season that this franchise finishes with a 68-94 record.

–The Reds have lost the season series against the Marlins for the fourth consecutive season. Cool.

–I dunno, man, I’m really ready for this season to end.

Blame Chad for creating this mess.

Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, “The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds” is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad’s musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine.

You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Join the conversation! 39 Comments

  1. #positive momentum

  2. I got to say this game was brutal. No effort at all. I was in the corner for Riggleman but he is just not motivating the players anymore. He has to go. I love Scooter but we have to get some energy in the field and line up. He needs to go too!

    I’m going to the game Tuesday just to throw peanuts on the field lol

  3. Unofficial title for the Reds season highlights video….

    “Our Great Depression…Another 90-loss Season”…since, you know, Redlegs followers haven’t been here since the 1930s.

    Yikes.

  4. Thanks again for the recap.Brutal

  5. Since Disco had a blow out again in the 6th inning, I looked this up via FanGraphs
    (does not include tonight’s outing)

    2018

    innings 1 through 5

    89.1 innings
    Ks per 9 – 8.4
    HRs per 9 – 1.8
    WHIP – 1.28
    xFIP – 3.87

    inning 6

    9 innings
    Ks per 9 – 3.0
    HRs per 9 – 4.0
    WHIP – 1.44
    xFIP – 6.03

    • Of course, small sample size applies. But, he gave up another HR tonight in the 6th inning.

      And, I thought breaking it down this way frames the Disco discussion in a different way….

      Everyone knows “third time through the order penalty”.

      But, what if Disco is just a 5 innings max guy now..and that is all he is ever going to be?

      2019 will be crucial to “sort” (sorry, but in Disco’s case, it’s true) whether there is any more than 5 innings left in his arm. The main reason is because, IMO, it affects the terms of extending him after 2019, after he has a good season…or maybe not at all, if 5 innings at age 29…maybe only 4 innings when hitting FA at age 31?

      Right now…this isn’t “top of rotation” stuff, based on good teams’ pitching aces.

      • Disco seems like another reds pitching prospect destined for the bullpen as a good “ middle reliever “. Along with Garret, Mahle, Romano, Reed! , Finnegan. Uggh

        • Disco was never a Reds pitching prospect. He was ready to start when they traded for him. He was a good SP prior to injuries. Reed and Mahle still have a chance to be effective starters. Garret will stay in the bullpen, probably as a high leverage situation guy. Romano is a bullpen guy, Finnegan is done

      • I was surfing around several different sporting event and just happened to catch Disco’s meltdown. It was evident he was running out of gas even though his pitch count was in the 60’s early on in the inning.

        He was trying to work away from the RH batters without much success, running counts up. Every time he tried to come back inside, he left the ball on the inner half about belt high. They hit several rockets off of him. There was a double, a low liner single Peraza dove for and deflected into the OF (no reflection on Jose, it was tagged), another similar ball that got short hopped on which the Reds got a force out on but not 2. Then came the HR. Somewhere in the sequence there was also a K.

        Romano was up and warming early on. After the game I saw in a blurb on Twitter linking to a video that Riggleman had said he was a little slow to get Disco help. I didn’t watch the video; so, I don’t know the further details of what Riggie said. I’d already seen too much.

        • Yeah. I kind of get the feeling Riggleman is loosing interest as well. He doesn’t seem to be as sharp as he was when he first took over.
          Initially he was very good at anticipating when his pitchers were about to fade and would yank them.
          I felt he should’ve taken Hernandez out in the 10 th last night after the first double. Guess he is getting tired too

        • So the same Riggleman that just said his pitchers were going to go shorter stints, didn’t take his pitcher out who had clearly run out of gas before the game got completely away from them? Makes sense.

  6. …and still playing Hamilton everyday, just unbelievable

    • And leading him off, which is the far larger mistake.

      • That said, it wasn’t Hamilton’s fault they lost. None of them are really hitting right now.

  7. Anybody feel like pointing out Disco got jobbed in the 4th? If you don’t agree, go back and watch the balls n strikes. I’m truly not a homer, and I understand that different home plate umps have their different zones… but watch it. At least 3 (crucial) pitches that got worked. Just sayin.

    • Sorry, really just two terrible calls. Felt like it was worse the first time through watching.

      • Any more it’s pretty standard for the umps to be pretty bad or inconsistent. I thought that’s what many fans wanted though, you know the whole human error element, it wouldn’t be baseball without it. At least that’s what I get told when I support an automated strike zone.

  8. Disco will be fine. It’s been a long season for him. The longest he’s had in a while.

  9. Another 90 loss season #Positive Momentum!

  10. After the inaction of the front office last offseason, with the exception of strengthening the bullpen, followed by the terrible start of the season, the fourth 90 plus year is not surprising. If the front office does not get moving regarding starting pitching and offense with adequate defense in centerfield, the Reds and their fans will face another ‘also ran’ season in 2019.

    • Not to keep beating a dead horse, but the perfect solution to CF was available last offseason in the form of Chritian Yelich. I’ve heard some try to make the excuse that the Reds weren’t going to compete this season anyway, so it’s pointless to get him. But this overlooks the fact that Yelich is still just 26 years old and is still a season or two away from his prime years. He would have been a perfect pickup for a team looking to compete in 2019 or 2020, but the Reds sat on their hands and let him go to a division rival.

      It perfectly sums up the Reds’ front office: Waits too long to act, indecisive when acting, and too enamored of in-house players to know when to act. Is it surprising at all the Reds have been running in place while other teams find ways to get better?

      • Your last paragraph is perfectly succinct in describing the Reds FO.

      • The horse certainly is dead. You’re right that Yelich would be a large improvement, but the argument that he wouldn’t have made much difference this year (while true, but your point about his age is well-taken) wasn’t the only one. The other point was what it would have taken to acquire him, since it seems possible that the ask would have been big enough to nearly assure that, when the Reds might have been expected to turn the corner and compete, Yelich would have been surrounded by a team that didn’t have other critical pieces. No Senzel, for starters. That’s always the issue in a trade for a good player. I’m so glad that the season is nearly over.

        • It would have taken quite the haul to get Yelich because he’s a very good player signed to an extremely good contract. I don’t know we can say that he’d be surrounded by no other critical pieces.

          Brinson was considered a the top prospect, reading back at MLBTR it appears he was a consensus top 25 prospect, while Harrison and Diaz (back end) were also top 100 prospects, with a 4th solid prospect. In the same offseason that could have been Senzel, Trammell, Mahle, and another prospect, maybe Gutierrez (A+ pitcher).

          Senzel is probably more of a sure thing than Brinson, who still had offensive concerns. Two more top 100 guys in Trammell and Mahle, likely would have been a step up from the guys the Marlins traded due to Trammell’s ascension to a top 20 guy now.

          Yelich is controlled through 2022. The Reds control Barnhart, Votto, Peraza, Suarez, Winker, Schebler, Ervin, Herrera, Blandino, Castillo, Garrett, etc through that time. The Reds would still have Greene in the pipeline, along with Santillan, India, T. Stephenson, Long, Siri, Downs, Friedl, Fairchild….etc in the system.

          A lineup of Winker, Votto, Yelich, Suarez, Schebler, Herrera/India/Long, Barnhart, Peraza is a pretty good looking lineup, and certainly not one I’d consider to be without critical pieces. The Reds would still have the financial ability to add to the rotation because Yelich’s contract wouldn’t be a detriment in any way.

          • Fair points. It obviously would depend upon the package the Reds sent. Like many of us, I have a lot of hope for Senzel and Trammell, unproven though they are, but it’s true that there’d still be good prospects in the pipeline. They need pitching, though, or it would all be for naught.

          • I agree that your package would have gotten it done. I’m not sure I’d have made that deal were I the Reds but Senzel, Trammell, Mahle + a guy like Lopez or Gutierrez would have done it.

      • This Yelich thing is ridiculous. Not only would he have not even made this team a .500 team. Then add in the asking price was reported to be Senzel and Trammell. There is also no evidence to support that he would have been in CF. My guess is Hamilton would still be out there most days. So what you are left with is Winker on the bench, Senzel and Trammell on the Marlins, and a team that looses 85 games instead of 90. I don’t see how that helps in any way without first addressing the pitching problems

        • You and your Yelich wouldn’t play CF narrative. I don’t get it. Bill, I typically find you to be a well informed and reasonable poster. I don’t get what the hang up is here.

          Yelich played 155 games in CF for the Marlins in 2017. They have a much larger park than GABP. He’s played some CF every year he’s been with the Marlins. He doesn’t play CF for the Brewers because they signed Cain. Remember the article about Hamilton’s defense posted on this site. One thing to glean from that is that Cain has generally been a better CF than Hamilton. Given Schebler, Winker, and Yelich in the same OF and Yelich is the obvious choice.

          • It’s not that he can’t play it. Choo played it, Schebler can play it, but with Hamilton on the roster he is getting the majority of the starts. The whole four man OF rotation could have been tossed in the garbage by putting Schebler in CF, but it didn’t happen.

          • Well, I can understand if we’re just going off Reds decision makers, I can see your point about their overvaluing Hamilton. I do think Yelich is a much better option in CF than Schebler is, so that may have made a difference in the decision making. Maybe the Reds end up trading Hamilton to one of the many interested parties last offseason if they swing this deal. I guess we’ll never know.

        • I agree Yelich is water under the bridge. I don’t agree the Reds were wise to let the opportunity pass to get him.

          For me it was never about what would do for the Reds in 2018. It was the 4-5 years of control at a favorable cost from his current age and what he would do over the life of the contract which we are seeing right now with the Brewers.

          Yelich is clearly a better all around player than either Winker or Schebler will ever be. His presence on the Reds would have freed one of those 2 up to use as trade material in their pursuit of pitching.

          The cost would have been high; but, the Reds would have been trading potential for proven quality at the MLB level. A year later, Trammell has still not played a game north of A+ and struggled somewhat in his 2nd half there with injury and production. Senzel’s ability to produce at the MLB level seems somewhat surer but his ability to stay on the field is very much a question mark. Plus the Reds have a glut of infield players.

        • Thank you! With respect, I think we understand by now, you did not want Yelich on this team. I don’t think that those of us who believe he would have been a good addition to the team believed that he was going to deliver 90+ wins by himself without the pitching being upgraded.

          Did the Reds ever contact the Marlins about Yelich? If so, I never heard who the Marlins wanted from the Reds. Can you please provide us with your sources?

          • It was rumored that the Reds asked the Marlins what would get it done and the asking price was too high. Doug suggested something like Senzel, Trammell, plus a pitcher if I recall. It was all speculation but Doug based his analysis on what the Brewers actually gave up for him. I don’t think I’d make that move if I were Reds GM but clearly I’m in the minority in that opinion, especially after Senzel and Trammel had some injury issues this year and Yelich was a stud.

  11. I’m really rooting for them to go 2-4 in these last 6 games. How many times has a team finished with the EXACT same record 3 seasons in a row? That’s got to be some kind of accomplishment, right?

    Say this for the Reds, they are consistent. Unfortunately, they are consistently terrible.

    • Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. It would be funny, certainly, but not very consoling. On a brighter note: How ’bout them Browns?

  12. I don’t get how anyone sees Disco’s 2018 as an outright positive. At best it’s meh. Maybe it’s because the rest of the Reds season has been a pile of horse manure, that this seems better in comparison? I mean, if you just want to say he made it through healthy, I guess, but so has Bailey and no one is declaring his 2018 a success story. We’ve seen this with Disco before, he came back mid-2016 and pitched a lot better than he has this year, then he missed the entirety of 2017. It’s hard to have confidence he will come out of 2019 ST with a clean bill of health. Even if he does, is this what kind of pitcher he has become?

    I think the nice little stretch he had for 3 games in August has lulled many into a contentment that Dicso is the still the same pitcher we recall from 2015-16. Through his first 10 games started he had a 5.47 ERA while allowing opposing hitters an .846 OPS. Then he had his 3 game August stretch in which his ERA was a minuscule 0.87 and his OPS against was .455, and he also pitched 21.2 innings during those three games. But in his last 7 games he’s had an ERA of 6.56 while giving up a .900 OPS.

    It’s those three games in between those other 17 that people want to hold on to. I get it, we all want Disco to be the rotation fixture we’ve been waiting for from all this sorting. I just don’t think a hot three game stretch makes a season narrative when there’s 17 other games in which he’s been pretty bad. He did have two QS during those other 17 games, so I guess you could say he’s been a quality starter 25% of the time he’s taken the field. We’re going to call that positive though?

    This is why I’ve suggested caution and patience when everyone wants to rush to extend him. Let’s see a full season of production and health before we go down that road. He’s not been the same pitcher he was, not nearly. Hopefully he can return to form, it’s just really premature to say he’s there yet.

  13. Next year the Reds will only lose 89 games. That will show you bandwagon fans!!!

  14. As I said above, I happened to tune into the game as the bottom of the 6th was beginning. I had no idea Disco had struck out 10 in the 1st five innings. However, I was surprised to note that his pitch count was so low at that point. (I just went to the play by play and backed in the pitch count to have been 66 through 5 innings). The pitcher I saw was obviously tired and struggling from the 1st pitch of the inning. He had neither control nor command. I was amazed to learn later that he had struck out 10 in the first 5 innings.

    After making about 2/3 of season worth of starts, DeSclafani appears to be a 4-5 inning pitcher. Hopefully the Reds have medical, sports science, and baseball people who can get their thoughts together and decide if the current situation with him is a lack of stamina from being away a year which can be overcome or whether this is what he has left to give over time.

Comments are closed.

About Chad Dotson

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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2018 Reds, Titanic Struggle Recap

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