/whimper/

188 Responses

  1. Patrick Jeter

    This is enough to make me want to break the site commenting guidelines. What a bunch of nonsense.

  2. msanmoore

    Smack.My.Head.

    I’m hoping we see an update in the next hour that proves this wrong. I fear we won’t. And an in-season deal is 99.999% unlikely given his agent Boras Badenov …

    • David

      Well, Scott Boras is also Nick Senzel’s agent. So…there you go.

      I predicted this yesterday. But I am surprised Duvall was traded, so that makes me only part right in predicting the Reds would do nothing.

      • Colorado Red

        If you look at who we got back, we did nothing.

      • greenmtred

        Since several people commenting here were adamant that Duvall wasn’t worth anything, I’m not sure what you expected to get for him.

      • lwblogger2

        I think he is one of the ones who felt Duvall was worth a lot and the Reds shouldn’t have traded him for the rather meager return. I tend to disagree but that’s me.

      • msanmoore

        Yes, but Boras can’t play the Senzel card for 6 years. That’s at least something.

      • vottomatic125

        Yes. Senzel’s injury helped the Reds. Minor injury shouldn’t impact his progression, just pushed back FA a year.

  3. Streamer88

    Yes! My master plan is still intact… until Aug 31st anyway.

  4. wkuchad

    In prior years, there’s always trades announced after the 4:00 deadline. Hoping that’s the case with Harvey this year. Come on Reds…

    • Kettering Reds Fan

      This is Cincinnati. One must be patient.

      I am reminded of my favorite quote, from one Samuel Langhorne Clemons, aka Mark Twain, which runs roughly as follows:

      “If the Angel Gabriel were to descend to Earth, blowing his horn, and signaling that the morrow would bring the End of All Things, I should like to spend that day in Cincinnati………because -everything- happens ten years later there……”

      • Eric

        …except with radio giveaways that involve dropping live turkeys from a helicopter. There, the Queen City will forever remain light years ahead of her time.

      • Kettering Reds Fan

        I’m always surprised that some marketing genius has not exploited that theme;

        “Where pigs fly and turkeys fall……”

      • greenmtred

        nd then there’s the purported inscription on W.C. Fields’ gravestone: “On the whole, I’d rather be in Cincinnati.”

      • Daytonian

        To be exact. W.C. Fields said: “On the whole, I’d rather be in Philadelphia.” But the sentiment is the same.

      • greenmtred

        I’ve also heard that as “Better here than in Philadelphia.” His legend just won’t die.

  5. Ghettotrout1

    This front office is so damn stupid. I don’t want this loser on the team I would have taken a 95 year old usher for this dork.

  6. TyGuy85

    All I have to say is the Reds front office better be busy during the offseason. This team as constructed is unlikely to contend in 2019.

    • Colorado Red

      No smart enough to do that.
      They have one of the dumbest FO, and owners in all of baseball.
      1 guy gets a hit, and they sign him to a massive contract.
      The who FO should be fired NOW.

      • BigRedMike

        Did the Twins make the Wild Card last year?

  7. Seat101

    I trust the front office. The offers must of been inadequate

    • Colorado Red

      For an FA who is not going to be here next year?
      What are that offering, ME?

    • Hotto4Votto

      Any offer would be adequate. A bag of bazooka Joe to be named later would have been fine.

      • Ghettotrout1

        LOLOL yeah I like that a bag of bazooka joe to be named later hahahahha thats my favorite comment so far.

  8. roger garrett

    I am really surprised about nobody wanting to rent Harvey for the stretch run.I mean surely there are contenders who need a guy like him for a few starts and you wouldn’t have to give up much to do just that.

  9. Matthew Habel

    #MattHarveyEra really coming back to bite us

    • Jeff Reed

      That’s for sure with Chris Archer to the Pirates.

  10. Hotto4Votto

    What the heck are they doing with their time? Seriously. What a failure on the FO not to get something done.

  11. Ghettotrout1

    We should just change the name to the Cincinnati Matt Harvey’s….. Thanks front office.

  12. wizeman

    this is absolutely terrible. just another reason to block stephenson for a guy who will not be here.

  13. Seat101

    If only we had never traded Devon Mesoraco. Think how well off we would be

    • Broseph

      I’m looking for the sarcasm, but having trouble finding it.

      .229/.307/.401/ 2 bum hips / 1 bum shoulder

      • Hotto4Votto

        The point of trading Mesoraco for Harvey was to reestablish value and flip Harvey. The Reds didn’t do that. They failed to complete their plan. So there’s no winning here (and won’t be for a long time the way this FO operates)

      • greenmtred

        It was completely predictable that there would be a slew of negative reactions almost no matter what they did. We lack crucial information (were there any offers? What were they?) and Harvey could still be traded after the deadline. Mainly, though,the dumb FO, dumb Riggleman, dumb everybody comments ignore how well the team has been playing. Somebody must be doing something right, but search me if I can find any acknowledgement of that.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I guess if you want to give a trophy for playing better than historically awful, but still in last place in the midst of another season that may approach 90 losses, then cool.

        When it appears we’re going to be better than at least two of the teams in our division then we can start talking acknowledgements. At this point we’re in the 4th season of rebuilding and the losing gets old. The inactivity in the offseason and deadlines get old. The inability to follow through on a plan gets old.

      • greenmtred

        That awful start is the reason they’re in last place. If they had played all year as they’ve played since late April, they’d be tied with the Cards and breathing down some other necks. They’re kicking the hell out of first-place teams and doing well even in the absence of two of their better hitters. The point of the trade may have been to flip Harvey, but flipping him for nothing or DFA’ing would be unpalatble–he’s been pitching well. Does anyone here know of a verified offer from another team?

      • Broseph

        Ah, my apologies then. Agreed, Meso wasn’t going to do the Reds any favors. Mets couldn’t move him as well

  14. Kevin McKeon

    So he must have told the front office that he likes throwing to Barnhart and he wants to stay in Cincinnati. Right………..

  15. another bob from nc

    Classic buy low sell lower strategy. Seems a Reds staple.

    • Colorado Red

      Almost, in this case it is buy low, give away for nothing (FA)
      Just like Zack, Williams is too flipping stupid to get anything done.

    • Hotto4Votto

      That’s good stuff there. I’m not in a laughing mood and still brought a chuckle. Thanks.

  16. Scott C

    I am really disappointed, as I know many on this site are, that Harvey was not traded. Worst possible outcome for this Trade Deadline. Worst part is even if he is traded before August 31, everytime he starts is one less start MLB start for Stephenson. If Stephenson starts out with another bad ST, what happens, they just release him? he is out of options and the Reds have simply wasted the last two years with him.

    • Colorado Red

      Doubt he clears waivers. He will not be traded. Mark my words.

      • Streamer88

        Marked.

        I think he will be traded after 2-3 more promising starts.

        It’ll also be suggested though never confirmed that the deal for the Reds in Aug will be better than the best offer today.

        I hope they sign him instead, but also mark my words.

      • lwblogger2

        I also doubt he’ll clear waivers.

  17. Jeff Reed

    This could be an indicator that a two to three year contract could be in the works for Harvey and his agent, Boras.

    • Colorado Red

      Doubt it.
      Scott will want to go test the market first.
      He may sign latter, but now before testing.
      Also, Matt will not clear waivers.

      • Hotto4Votto

        If that’s the case, they should just let the claiming team keep him and save some money.

    • I-71_Exile

      Agree. I’d love to see Harvey sign with the Reds. Who knows? They have surprised me before. I never thought they would extend Votto or sign Homer.

      • Colorado Red

        See how well that will work out for us. Homer is a complete bust since the injury, and Joey will fall off, with several years left.
        The Reds will be hamstrung for a while

      • I-71_Exile

        Homer’s contract was a bust but injuries happen. Votto is a win no matter what he does with the rest of the contract. His plate approach has spread to other Reds’ hitters.

      • da bear

        What an awesome win, 4 years of less than 70 wins! With 5 more seasons hampered by declining productivity at $25MM/year….

        Meanwhile Pittsburgh traded away McCutchen and Angels outbid lucky St.Louis for Pujols.

  18. Dave

    Bob Castellini is running the baseball side of things. We won’t/can’t win with that.

  19. Klugo

    They’re gambling that they can get more during the waiver trade period than what was offered. I imagine Harvey would pass. I also imagine they had a price for Duval and Harvey combo that Braves we’re unwilling to pay.
    My guess is that Harvey will be traded in August or sign a one yr extension.

    • roger garrett

      Walt has been known to roll the dice and wait for it,wait for it,lose again.

    • Colorado Red

      If he has a good start or two will not clear waivers. Just like Zack last year.
      Man, the FO is STUPID

  20. TMOREDS

    Harvey is not the hero we need, he’s the hero we deserve…..Reds FO

  21. Jim t

    I like this. Sign Harvey to a short term bridge contract and go get Wheeler

      • vegastypo

        Well, if they’re serious about trying to re-sign him, one factor is that only they can negotiate with him. After the season, anybody can join in. … I wanted him gone too, just to get something for him and to make room, but if there is legit interest in both sides that he might stick around, that at least makes a little sense.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I guess I don’t even really see the point about resigning him. The Reds are stuck with Bailey and it doesn’t appear they have the guts to cut bait there. Disco will still be around unless they non-tender him or he gets hurt again. They will have Castillo, Mahle, Romano, Stephenson, and Sims (maybe a few others) to compete for spots to fill out the rotation behind those other two. Stephenson is out of options and needs to stick on the 25-man roster.

        The only pitching addition that really makes sense for the Reds in 2019 is to get a top of the rotation starter. That’s not Harvey anymore. He’s a fine 4th/5th starter at this point. Do you risk exposing Stephenson to waivers for the cost of a couple of years of Harvey as a back end starter? Not to mention the cost spend to bring him back.

        Do we really think a rotation of Bailey, Harvey, Disco, Castillo, and Mahle/anyone else is competing in the NL Central next year? Unless playing well for a month and a half and getting buttloads of bobbleheads is enough for everyone, I think we need more than that.

      • greenmtred

        Maybe not. How you gonna keep ’em down on the farm, after they’ve seen Paree?

  22. Scottya

    Two big problems I have with the Reds FO and the last two trade deadlines, really the last three. 1. not trading cozart. 2. not trading harvey. 3. not taking advantage of the huge buyers market (look at what the braves gave up for gausman) we should have one upped that trade and have gausman in our rotation!!

    The only seller win off the top of my head was the Rays – I like what they got from the pirates for Archer. I’m glad the Reds didn’t win that bid!

    • JoshG

      Gausman would barely be an improvement if at all

      • Scottya

        No that’s not correct. Gausman has a career 3.93 career x fip and 3.99 career sierra. Real close to the same this year. Based on purely the numbers Gausman would be just below luis castillo as our second best starting pitching. Castillo 3.70 career xfip and 3.87 sierra

    • Jack

      Gausman is a project. He has underachieved so far.

    • greenmtred

      A reasonable question, but not one addressed amid all of the angst. I think it’s possibe that they got no offers: He’s coming off serious injuries, he had serious off-field problems in New York, and Scott Boras is his agent.

    • Hotto4Votto

      A lotto ticket and an opening in the rotation the rest of the year is what I was hoping for.

    • bouwills

      Expecting that the Reds wouldn’t make the Meseraco/ Harvey trade & give Matt all those ML starts unless there was going to be a return on that investment of time & opportunity.What? you had zero expectations of the commitment to putting Harvey in the rotation?

  23. Old-school

    I believe there is a mandate to win 75 + games and get as much distance as possible from 2017 68-94 and historically awful April. Losing Harvey could significantly undermine that. As ridiculous as it sounds, the Reds FO wants momentum and improvement and selling points going in to the offseason marketing campaign that they’ve turned the corner.

    A 71-91 season is unacceptable.
    77-85 is much better

    • roger garrett

      You don’t believe the future comment of DW.Now now it can’t be about winning in 2018.

      • Old-school

        The trade yield for Harvey was going to be low. The bigger issue is having Bailey and Harvey clogging up rotation spots- neither is the future.

        It’s interesting the Reds are allowing Harvey and Boras more opportunity to pad his free agency resume.

        Perhaps the Reds will go after Harvey in FA if he finishes the year well.

      • da bear

        The resume that’s gonna be padded and beneficial to the Reds is Danny Darwin’s. If he fixes Harvey (looks like he has) and has done the same with Castillo, then the Reds might be able to take reclamation projects and turn lead into gold the way the Pirates pitching coach Ray something or other has with guys like Happ, that former Red who made the all star game in 2007 or 2008, and several others. That might put the reds as a destination for former solid pitchers or ones with potential to find their form again for a couple years….similar to what Don Gullett used to do.

    • doofus

      What you say is plausible. It gives the owners/FO something to trumpet this winter to point how much the team improved. When we all know they just put a different colored lipstick on the same hog.

    • lwblogger2

      I think you’re onto at least part of what they are thinking. As you are on here a lot and have a lot of good points, I’d like to also consider:

      If the Reds get what they perceive as very little for Harvey, then it could reduce their negotiating leverage in future trades for rental type players. Teams will think, that they can low-ball the Reds with their offer and the Reds, having to make a move to get something for the player, will cave and do the deal. The message the Reds sent by not trading Harvey is “We are not giving away our players, even rental players, for nothing. If you want a guy, you have to give us some value in return”

      I’m not sure I agree with either strategy (winning in 2018/improving future negotiating leverage) but combined they make a little more sense.

  24. doofus

    The Red’s FO aggressiveness in making deals to improve the ballclub is measured in a Slug’s 60 time.

  25. David

    I have a guess that Harvey’s reputation with a lot of teams is a “bad boy”. He and Syndergaard used to go out drinking a lot together. And I think a lot of teams aren’t sold on him straightening out his act.
    So the Reds were likely not offered a whole lot for him. Sure, there were teams interested, but nothing substantial.

    After the Reds actually got some value for Duvall, I really don’t think you can honestly call Dick Williams incompetent. Something else is in play here. And there is still the trade/waiver deadline of August 30.

    So there may yet be a possibility of the Reds signing him for something reasonable and not the moon and stars that Scott Boras thinks his player will get.

    It only bugs me that Stephenson isn’t going to get any innings until a September call up when rosters expand. Four or five starts. And Stephenson is out of options. He has to be on the 25 man roster next year.

    • greenmtred

      Harvey isn’t the only guy whose place Stephenson could take. Mahle has looked gassed for a while, and who knows how Homer will do going forward? I agree: I’d like him to get a shot right now, but if they can re-sign Harvey, I’ll like that , too. The NGRT is almost here, and he could definitely be a part of it.

  26. lost11found

    If interest was light, he will make it through waviers and can still be dealt. The return will even be less but it wasn’t going to be high in any event.

    There are plenty of ways to get stephenson some starts and anyone else they want to (ie Sims).

    DFA Harvey
    DFA/DL Baily
    DL Mahle (tired arm) Might even do him some good.
    or Move Ramano to pen or AAA.

    Just to name a few.

    Deep Breaths folks, just relax….you all sound like Marlin from ‘Finding Nemo’

    • Hotto4Votto

      If the Reds plan was to DFA Harvey then why not take any offer that was made. With all the interest reported by multiple teams, even today, I’m sure some offer was on the table.

      I wish this were the case. The Reds won’t do it. Don’t have the stones.

      This may be an option, but probably not DL, more likely to AAA until September if they make a move with Mahle.

      They may do this, may have done this already. It still leaves Bailey, Castillo, Mahle, Harvey, and DeSclafani in the rotation. So unless the Reds stick with a six man rotation the rest of the year there is still no room. They would need to move Romano to the pen and Mahle to AAA to make room for Stephenson.

      • lost11found

        Interest could have been there but the two side may not have been able to agree completely. No shame there. It happens. We will likely never know what was offered.

        If the reds and others were close, the coming days may yet hold some news. And if someone claims him off of waivers, a deal can still be worked out.

    • WVRedlegs

      That was the movie 2 years ago at the deadline, Finding Nimmo. But Dick Williams couldn’t find Nimmo with both his hands, a flashlight, and a GPS tracker. Williams instead landed and settled on Two Bum Shoulders.
      This year’s movie was The Wizard of Oz. Dick Williams was the Cowardly Lion. No courage at the deadline. Nick Krall as the Tin Man. Phil C as the Scarecrow. And Big Bob as The Wizard. No courage, no heart, and no brains.
      I can see Dick Williams now, “NEXT year, we will be like the Pirates.”

      • Thomas Jefferson

        FWIW – Walt made the Nimmo decision, not DW.

    • Bill

      Romano to the pen still leaves five starters. DFA of Harvey is not a good move in the eyes of the players. Who wants to play in CIncinnati if you get DFA’d at the end of the season during your contract year when you are playing well? DL of Bailey requires something to actually be wrong with him, and DFA of a guy who just threw a complete game with 2 ER is once again a bad look for the Reds. DL for Mahle requires something to be wrong and I don’t think being tired is a medical reason for the DL.

      Harvey will still get put on waivers along with half the roster. He might make it to a team willing to trade or he could get claimed by someone as an attempt to block the other team. At that point no deal gets done and he remains with the Reds.

      Overall it probably is insignificant in the big picture, but disappointing if they get nothing in return. I like what he has done so far. I don’t like that the Reds basically paid $13 million/yr rate for him and then couldn’t trade him. On the other hand Mesoraco also returned nothing and allowed Casilli to get some playing time

      • da bear

        Harvey is making less than Mesoraco. Reds threw in some money to defray the difference but in the end they reduced salary a little via the trade with the Mets.

  27. Indy Red Man

    I’m not that concerned with Harvey. Lets see how he looks and maybe they’ll want him moving forward….or not? What bothers me is Archer and Kela to the Pirates! Its going to be hard to get out of last if our pitching doesn’t make big strides. Archer could be really good in the NL!

    • David

      honestly, it will likely only make a marginal difference in most cases. Yes, PERHAPS the Pirates are stronger for the stretch. But who knows what their roster looks like on Opening Day, 2019.

    • Jack

      They gave up a lot for Archer as if he is a number 1 which he is not. Most analysts right now are saying the Ray’s received players like it was for Blake Snell.

  28. Indy Red Man

    Brewers get Schoop from Baltimore. Anyone that matters is coming to the NL….disturbing?

    • Kettering Reds Fan

      Note that the Brewers are (sort of) following a dissenting strategy.

      i.e. “We can -slug- our way out of -any- problem. You put up 1, we’ll put up 3. You put up 4, we’ll put up 7. And since we can, maybe, just maybe, we only need -adequate- pitching and not a high-priced Ace Nr.1 and Nr. 2 guy.” At least, it appears that way. Yankees are built in much the same philosophy.

      Note that Miller is considered hitter friendly. which means, like us, they are guaranteed 81 home games plus time in GABP plus one or two other hitter friendly environs during a regular season. Before you know it, two-thirds of the sched could be in venues that you’ve built to exploit.

      Which (heretically) suggests that you might -not-need a super high priced Nr 1 Ace. Maybe you need to build your starting pitching from a bunch of affordable Nr2/Nr 3 types with good ground ball/fly ball ratios and then depend on (again) somewhat more affordable power/situational pitching from the ‘pen.

      (Of course, the counterfactual to this is that we just traded slugging – Duvall- for another arm, further reducing our overall power, but I’m just speculating….This would imply that FO sees more power in the prospective future from somewhere out of Winker (healed), Schebler (medium-term solution if he can achieve at least Jay Bruce consistency), Friedl, Trammell, et. al.)) (It would also be going straight against Jockettyball)

      • REDLEGS64

        That’s a good post – and I have to say it’s a strategy that might work. When combined with BA rise on 3rd/4th trips thru line-up, really seems to say you don’t need an ace starting staff.

    • lwblogger2

      I’m really curious how a potentially brutal defensive IF of: 1B Thames, 2B Shaw, 3B Moustakas (good defender), SS Schoop, is going to work for them. The traditional thinking of good up-the-middle defense being key to a winning team will certainly be tested with that DP combo.

  29. roger garrett

    The other league has the DH and hitters 1-9 so I agree Archer will love seeing a weak hitter or two plus the pitcher as will Gausman in Atlanta.

  30. Mark Tokarski

    You don’t always get what you want. Harvey has played well in Cincy, so the only downside I see is not getting a mediocre prospect in return for him. I like this front office –

    • Hanawi

      In addition to not getting any prospects, they still have to pay him for the rest of the year while he continues to block other young pitchers that might actually be a part of the future.

    • Hotto4Votto

      The downside is that another veteran pitcher who is unlikely to be here next year is set to make 12 more starts that Robert Stephenson could be making.

      Robert Stephenson who over his last 14 games has a 2.48 ERA in 83.1 IP. He has 97 K’s vs 34 BBs. He’s only given up 9 HRs in that span. He’s also throwing strikes 65% of the time. He’s been on a roll with no where to go. That is downside of not trading Harvey, not any mediocre prospect we’re missing out on.

      • jay johnson

        Why has everyone insisted that it is Harvey blocking Stevenson?
        Send Mahle to the bats,which is coming anyways ,and bingo theres your spot.I think Harvey has been impressive as a Red.I love his demeanor.The only true professional on the mound we have.
        Hope we sign him to a short contract with a team option after 2 years.
        The current batch of kids arent impressive.Romano,Mahle etc look very #5ish.
        Disco doesnt look back at this point and of course theres the ultimate loser HOMER.
        The only guy who looks like a true keeper is Castillo.
        Love still having Harvey.

      • lwblogger2

        “Loser” Homer, who I have had very, very little hope for ever being an effective pitcher again, has posted 2 very, very good starts his last 2 times out. Not only were the numbers good, he has looked good. His arm-angle is higher, he’s more “on top of” the ball instead of pushing it out. Seems to be hiding it a bit longer. Homer, assuming good luck on the health front, may be a factor in 2019.

  31. Seat101

    Is there anyway to find out when a player is put on waivers? Could it be done today?

    Could he have already cleared waivers and we not know it?

  32. Indy Red Man

    Adios BobSteve….good luck! I hope he becomes a good starter somewhere!

  33. Michael E

    The only defense of such an inactive trade deadline for the Reds, where if nothing else, those two high demand RPs in Hughes and Hernandez should have been dealt, is that the returns for MOST of the just so-so players (Reds had no high-end players to deal, they mishandled most of them the past few years) was fairly mediocre.

    It seems like contending teams weren’t ready to deal top 5 prospects, but instead went fishing for teams willing to deal away decent depth pieces for quantity of mediocrity over one or two quality pieces.

    The Reds traded so-so Duvall for 3 mediocre/faded prospects. There is a chance one turns out surprisingly good in 2019 or 2020, so I am not totally mad at that deal.

    I just don’t get why Harvey (admittedly low end SP trade fodder), Hughes and Hernandez weren’t traded. I am sure the latter two would have gotten back one #7 or #8 prospect from another team.

    Then again, who knows, maybe they use a few of them for a bigger winter meeting deal, to send some salary away when acquiring a good SP2 type? One can only dream.

    If we had traded Harvey, Hernandez and Hughes and gotten more or less a Braves return on Duvall, then probably better to keep them. I just wonder if the Reds brass took any initiative at the deadline. I’d hate to hear “we sat back waiting for calls that didn’t come” as Jocketty and Williams seemed to insinuate a few July’s previously.

    I’d love for the Reds to get a HIGHLY proactive GM, not one that sits around bemoaning the lack of calls. Sigh. Not going to happen with a conservative Castellini I guess.

  34. RedsFaninPitt

    “The sky is falling”, the Reds didn’t get anything for Harvey. “The sky is falling,” the Reds didn’t get anything for Cozart last year. No teams were interested in either players at those trade deadlines. End of story. No market, no trade. Neither player had sufficient value to get much of anything anyway. The lack of a trade deadline deal for either of those players won’t matter 1 or 2 years from now when the Reds are winning again. The Reds are headed in the right direction, and no trade deadline deals not involving Cozart or Harvey is going to change that. We may also be surprised what we can get in August for him when so many other pitchers have been taken off the table. Lastly, I liked the Duvall deal – we got more than I thought we would get for a player who should not be a regular starter on a good team.

    • Hotto4Votto

      It’s not true to say no teams were interested. Just today it was reported that the Braves, Cubs, Giants, and Brewers were interested. The Yankees and M’s had been connected recently. On the tweet that said he wasn’t trade it stated something along the lines of despite the flurry of trade talks.

      And I would agree that the return probably won’t make a difference down the road. But these 12 starts may make a huge difference for Robert Stephenson.

      • Jim t

        It also could be possible that keeping BobSteve in Louisville working on his mechanics may pay dividends next year. Continuing to reduce his walks is what Stephenson needs to do.

      • Hotto4Votto

        Stephenson is overwhelming hitters at AAA. He has a 27.4 K% this season and he’s improved as the year’s went on. He doesn’t have anything to prove in AAA. Do you really think he should be put in a position beginning next season where he must sink or swim? Or do you think coming up for two months in a losing season to re-acclimate to the majors would be a better idea?

        Over his last 14 starts (beginning on May 6th) he’s put a 2.48 ERA in 83.1 IP. He has 97 K’s vs 34 BBs. He’s only given up 9 HRs in that span. He’s also throwing strikes 65% of the time. People want to harp on the walks, but the guy’s WHIP is 1.19 on the season, he’s limiting base runners and he can strike out guys when he gets in jams. He’s becoming pitch efficient as well, only needing 92 pitches to get through 7 IP last start out.

        Really, what else does he need to show before he gets another shot? (And let’s not forget he was pretty good with the Reds the last two months last season as well).

      • lwblogger2

        I agree. They told him to throw strikes and they told him to relax out there and just concentrate on making his pitches. He’s done that. He got a little tired and lost some command late in his last start (or perhaps 2 starts ago) but that was an anomaly. Stephenson may not be “the man” but I’ve seen an MLB starter the couple times I’ve seen him this year. The numbers back that up.

      • RedsFaninPitt

        Hotto4Votto:

        Well apparently there was not enough interest for the Reds to trade him which means there must not have been as much of a market as what the press was indicating. 4 to 5 starts (not 12 assuming Harvey gets traded later in August) for Stephenson in MLB will not make much difference. Let him continue to work on what they have been having work on the minor leagues for a while longer. He seems to be slowly figuring things out, and he will get his opportunity. Don’t rush good progress.This won’t make any difference for the Reds next year or in 2020 when they are competing for a pennant. I would encourage you to look at the Phillies starting rotation comparing last year with this year. Young pitching requires patience so they can develop. The Reds will be fine because they have young developing pitching and they have a stocked farm system.

      • Hotto4Votto

        In my opinion, any interest in a guy you’re going to let walk into FA at the end of the year, that you only acquired with the intent of flipping would have been enough. I don’t buy that there wasn’t an offer on the table from someone. Take the lotto ticket and find satisfaction that the plan you laid out in May worked out.

        Young pitching should also be challenged in order to improve the most. Stephenson proved last year that he can pitch at the ML level. Since the first week of May this season he’s been on a roll and pitching well in AAA. What else does he need to do to get another shot?

      • Scott C

        Disagree. 4 or 5 starts might make a difference. These are August starts not September stats once rosters are expanded. And you are assuming Harvey gets traded in August. No guarantee on that.

    • doofus

      I guess no team had an interest in Iggy, Gennett, and Hamilton either?

      Please tell us what direction the Reds are heading in?

      “We may also be surprised what we can get in August for him (Harvey)…” How can this be true when you just said that no team had an interest in Harvey? You seem to have contradicted yourself.

      • RedsFaninPitt

        I didn’t contradict myself at all. My point is that just because there was not sufficient interest yesterday doesn’t mean there won’t be sufficient interest sometime in August. We have no idea what the plans are for Stephenson, just like we have no idea what the plans are for Castillo, Mahle or Bailey for that matter. A couple of the young pitchers could be traded for an ace. Bailey could be DFA’d or traded if they pickup some of his pay or if he finishes the year strong. My point is players take time to develop and the experts no better when their major-league ready and when their not. The Reds are likely convinced that Stephenson would still struggle with walks if brought to the majors since the umpires in MLB call a finer strike zone and his command is not yet as fine as it needs to be. I think when they promote him or Reed they do not want them to return to AAA again because of the impact it has on their confidence.

      • doofus

        How do you know there wasn’t “sufficient” interest in Harvey? What constitutes “sufficient” interest?

      • lwblogger2

        Have you seen him pitch this year? His command has been better than I’ve ever seen. No, he won’t come up and just get everyone out. There are no Paul Goldschmidts, Joey Vottos, Bryce Harpers, Manny Machados, or even Matt Carpenters at AAA after all. He will come up and show he belongs in an MLB rotation though.

    • BIll

      There was interest in both. Cozart was injured last year and the year prior a trade was in place, but the Reds missed the deadline due to spending too much time on the Bruce trade. I think Harvey was probably plan B or C for multiple teams and there are enough sellers in the market that a Harvey trade was not the best option for those teams who had interest

  35. WVRedlegs

    So much for the Reds front office to accelerate The Rebuild and put the historical bad start way behind this team. Wasted opportunity. I mentioned back in the first week of July that this was going to happen, nothing. I missed on the Duvall thing, but saw very little if any activity coming down the pike.
    So much for fan trust in this organization’s front office. The Reds are going to have to have Joey Votto Funko Pop night 81 times next year.
    There was a lot at stake at this particular deadline. Some heavy lifting will need to happen this winter, but they didn’t need to wait and do it all at the same time. There is something very, very wrong within the Reds front office.
    How is that Reds front office looking now??

    • DEN

      Without all the facts it’s impossible to judge. Some are ready to jump all over the FO for not trading anyone bedibes Duvall for a bag of balls. Sure I would have loved to seen the Reds trade Senzel and Green for either Stud NU Mets SP but that didn’t happen but I don’t know if it was we didn’t offer or the Mets wanted more..

  36. Indy Red Man

    Its depressing. Their recent success and the roof have turned Milwaukee into a top dog financially now! Archer and Kela to the Pirates as well. Kela is 24-25 in saves! He never seems to pitch a ton of innings, but he gives them the chance for a Milw type pen. Losing Austin Meadows hurts them, but how are we not a distant 5th going into next year? Nobody big will be coming and Billy won’t be going.

  37. Michael E

    If I were a fan of another team that is contending, I’d cringe at obtaining Harvey. He is still very mediocre, regardless of some decent starts with the Reds and he can’t make it past 5 innings without throwing 95 pitches. Not sure there is much value in a league average pitcher that can’t pitch more than 5 innings. He is an SP5 filler and no future control. I am guessing the offers were some 25 year old high A ball pitcher that walks more than he Ks and I’d rather not even have that in the organization sucking away A ball starts from a real prospect.

    I am more disturbed we didn’t capitalize on Hughes and Hernandez pitching lights out. RPs are in the most demand and Reds FO sat and sat and sat while earlier deals starting last week trickled in. Basically, the Reds FO thinks they can’t make a trade till July 31st and then teams in need fill those needs working out trades with ACTIVE front-offices on selling teams.

    The Reds FO is and has been WAY too passive in offering trades. The less offers you send/receive, the less likely to maximize the return (and we have not maximized returns very often…Suarez and Castillo I guess).

    • greenmtred

      And yet, in spite of all of the incompetence, they’re playing well, unless I’ve been watching another team these past three months without realizing it…

      • Michael E

        This is true and they’re not completely incompetent, far from it. It’s just frustrating that our rebuilding assets weren’t used very efficiently. It definitely could have been worse..won’t argue that.

    • DEN

      Your making assumptions with no real proof. We have no idea what the front office was offered, so to point fingers really isn’t fair.

      • doofus

        Wrong. Knowledgeable Red’s fans take the whole body of work of Bob Castellini’s incompetent GM’s when they evaluate the success or failure of a trade deadline or Winter Meeting. His FO’s have a track record of incompetence. When they change that, then we’ll cut them some slack. A consistent winning record will be that benchmark for success.

      • Michael E

        Maybe I am. Hard to say, but it sure feels like a passive front office given the lack of obvious moves. When rebuilding, you sign some vets, if they play well, you trade them for good prospect or two. I don’t get why hanging on to Hughes or Hernandez makes sense. They’re fairly cheap, sure, but I’d rather have a shot at an above average SP under team control for 4, 5 or 6 years (prospect or rookie) than one more year of either of them.

        It’s not like end of world stuff. Nothing wrong with keeping good players. Assuming they’re not expensive or at the expense of younger/cheaper good players. It just feels like opportunity squandered to me, much like waiting too long to trade Frazier and then unloading Chapman at the worst possibly time for pennies on the dollar.

  38. Seat101

    Dick William said he was not interested in trading our relief pitchers. So no surprise there.

    So what did you expect to get for Harvey?

  39. doofus

    Either the return for Iggy, Gennett, Hamilton, Harvey, et al was underwhelming or Bob Castellini’s fondness/meddling interfered with dealing these players, or both. Yet, the Pirates, Cubs, Brewers are able to make moves to improve their rosters. This doesn’t make the Red’s FO look good. Another deadline and/or winter meeting of nothing.

    • Kettering Reds Fan

      (Refers my earlier post)

      (1) If you are going to shift emphasis and build your pitching about “good enough” starters and a killer bullpen, why would you trade Iggy, Hughes, Hernandez, Lorenzen?

      (2) Are you going to get a full return for Gennett given wide speculation about the stability of his shoulder?

      (3) It should be obvious that Hamilton has priced himself out of the market. 90% of the time, when someone shops and selects, they get better plate performance at a lower salary. Take the hint.

      • doofus

        1. They don’t have a “killer” bullpen. Buy low, sell high. Atlanta has shown the last few years that they know how to do that.

        2. The other second basemen that moved were less than perfect, yet they were dealt. So what are the Reds going to do extend Scooter, who you admit has a bad wing?

        3. Sorry, I’m not smart enough to figure out what your talking about.

  40. J

    If you can’t manage to trade a guy whose value to other teams should be considerably more than his value to your own team (which, in this case, is virtually zero), then you’re definitely doing something wrong. This organization is inept.

  41. Indy Red Man

    Harvey just touched 98 last time out and he could recapture that slider he had in that Milw game (rain delay wasn’t it?) then he could easily be a #2 or #3 again. Harvey staying isn’t that bad at all….gives them atleast a slim chance to keep him if he looks ok down the stretch?

    It just stinks for BobSteve….that and Homer could give up 20 runs in this next 3 starts and wouldn’t be going anywhere. We need to see BobSteve. It would be nice to see the 24 yr old from the Duvall trade as well. Mahle needs a break. Not a Romano fan and never have been although he’s been ok lately. Overall…they just never seem to see the big picture?

  42. Streamer88

    General thoughts: who cares whether a rebuilding club gets another team’s 19th best prospect for a rehabbed pitcher they got for a broken down useless catcher?

    I personally like the idea of having another 2 months to sell Matt Harvey on staying in Cincy. That alone is more valuable than the stale sunflower seeds teams were offering to acquire him.

    • Old-school

      I think you hit on something. DW has said the Reds are adding and spending. Everyone would agree MH has been a solid pitcher for the Reds. It makes zero sense to keep him as a rental and allow him a showcase to build his FA value this upcoming offseason while RS and others need MLB starts.

      Unless the FA recruitment has already started. Danny Darwin seems to be a good pitching coach and well respected.

      • Streamer88

        You could say that this is the best scenario to sign him long term.

        By pitching meaningless games in Sep (and not epic games in October) we reduce his exposure to the big stage, where he could excel (I’d say he likely would excel, though as you know I love the guy) and drive his value on the free market out of our price range.

        Everyone clamors, “trade him and just sign him in the offseason if you love him so much.” Yeah, but if he goes back to NY, wins the ALCS for them, wins game 3 of the WS, uh, he’ll get pricier.

        Keep him hidden, tell him no one wants him, see if you can steal a 3 year 30 million deal out of it.

      • Bill

        That should be an interesting conversation,
        Reds: “Hey Matt your doing great things here, but no one wants you. I’ll do you a favor and give you a three year contract for $30 million”
        Harvey: “Why are you talking to me?” calls agent
        Boras: calls Reds “Actually no one wants you. Have you looked at your attendance? What about your record? I’ll give you a deal six years at $120 million”

      • Streamer88

        Haha. Trust me, Harvey doesn’t need to be told by the Reds what was offered for his services, and what his perceived value is.

        Boras has an army of spies throughout the MLB so he can constantly be made aware of those types of details. All of us on this blog are miles away from the back hallways where that info is transmitted.

        Harvey is a 2WAR pitcher next year and prolly for the 2 years following that, IMHO, plain and simple. How many of those do the Reds have right now? Somewhere between 0-2 depending on projections.

        How many of those could we acquire or develop by hook or by crook in the next 18 months? Ideally we’d need 6 (1 spare).

        I’d love to sign him at 3/30-36 million.

        He’s worth 16million per year based on my WAR projections. Let’s see what happens.

    • Michael E

      The only way we sign Harvey is to overpay and hope he finds his youthful self. I don’t think he’ll ever be near what he was. He is a high pitch count nibbler with so-so control.

      Boras client is not going to sign for some discount. Do you really want to sign Harvey to a Bailey-like contract this off-season? I doubt he’ll look for less, even with the struggles and injuries of the past two years.

  43. Ryan Howell (@rmhowell2)

    This is the worst situation. Guy is blocking Stephenson, we need to see what we have in him. Harvey is at his complete ceiling as a starter. Reds front office might be the worst in baseball.

    • DEN

      Do you really believe he is blocking anyone? Stephenson is history with this franchise, they feel like he had his shots and didn’t come through, time to move on.

      • lwblogger2

        Then they are making a mistake, potentially a big one.

    • Kettering Redsn

      Not necessarily.

      (1) The team can stay with the 6-man rota a while longer – at least two start cycles – while we find out whether Homer is fully recovered.

      (2) After that, one can always find a way to invoke “innings limit” arguments to find a path for BobSteve to get starts up here. It -is- August, after all. One way to do this would be to keep the present rota, but then give Mahle and Romano alternate starts off with BobSteve filing the slot and using him as long relief in those games where they -are- starting. Or variations on this, as long as he is assured of reliable multi-inning work every fifth or sixth day. One impression I -do- have is that Stephenson’s skills will not stay fresh unless he is -regularly- worked.

      (3) And then there is the Black Swan case where either someone goes down or is waiver/traded before month end. (Not that I’m rooting for this). And then you are in a situation where you can guarantee Stephenson work.

  44. DEN

    Gee what will Dayton or our AA team for without that bench filler we might have gotten for Harvey, oh how will they handle it…

  45. sezwhom

    I’m glad Harvey wasn’t traded. Enjoy watching him pitch. Besides, what did you really expect to get for him? Couple of AA batteries: Single A or Double A pitcher/catcher who will never make the show?

  46. bouwills

    I’d be disappointed except there was really never any reason to expect the Reds to do any different than they did last July, or last Winter meetings, or last Rule 5 draft. They’re consistent non-players, I’ll give ’em that.

  47. Tom Mitsoff

    I’m going to join the minority here who support the front office. I thought the Duvall trade was very good. He had been bypassed by Winker, and Dick Williams got a Class AAAA pitcher and outfielder for him, along with a 24-year-old righthander who will be a candidate for the rotation next year. THAT is a good return for a guy you don’t need any more. Some folks here might believe that trading Duvall for a bunch of dirty towels would be an equally good trade, just because it clears a spot for Winker.

    Let’s just say the best offer for Harvey was a couple of Class A infield prospects. (I suspect that there must have been some better offers, but let’s use the Class A prospects as an example.) If you take the two Class A infielders just because you believe you have to get SOMETHING for a guy who is leaving, you basically trade an established starting pitcher for two guys who face long odds to even advance to Class AA. You could argue, well maybe they will develop and be good. Statistically, a very small percentage of players in Class A ever make it to the bigs.

    Dick Williams said he wants to make trades that will bring in big-league ready players in hopes of improving next year’s team. If you trade Harvey for those two, you then lose the chance to try to put him through waivers in August and wait and see if a contending team has a starting pitcher who suffers an injury. That is a trade in which you can demand and receive value.

    Once the centerfielders started going off the board around the noon hour, I knew Hamilton was staying. No big deal. Everyone knows he can’t hit. When someone will trade the Reds someone who can help them next year for him, Dick Williams will make the trade. Until then, no. He can always be an asset off the bench.

    I like the fact that he does not forget the value his players have. I think it is the way to run a sports team, and I think this team is two or three starting pitchers away from being at least .500 next year, if not in contention.

    • Chris Miller

      Completely agree. People love to rip this front office, but are so blind, that they don’t realize that this front office is completely different than a few years ago. Outside of the Chapman deal, virtually everything they have done has been exceptional. Two of our three All Star infielders were key moves made by this front office.

      The Duvall trade was outstanding, given what Duvall’s value was. These were all three young top ranked prospects, just two years ago. We might end up with an outstanding young starter, who’s actually younger than all of our starters, and prospect starters, save for Mahle. The other pitcher may be valuable too. The outfielder, at the very least, can hit righties, and his AAA numbers show that. Great deal.

      As for Harvey not being dealt. Bottom line, you computer geniuses have no idea what conversations have been made with Harvey’s agent, if any. You don’t know what was being offered in deals either. Two or three low level prospects do this organization NO good. In fact, this organization is at a point, where it needs to deal away a few bodies, and get current talent for the 25 man roster. Getting nothing for Harvey now, or waiting and possibly dealing him in August, or actually signing him to an extension, is well worth the gamble of not dealing him for a bucket of baseballs. I’ve got no problem with Harvey not being dealt.

      • big5ed

        Agreed. I figured they would trade him, and they still might, but I certainly don’t buy the idea that he is blocking Stephenson.

        Stephenson will get here shortly. It doesn’t matter in the long run if he gets 5 starts or 8 for the Reds this year.

      • Jeff Reed

        I agree with your comment. I don’t think Harvey will be blocking Stevenson in the next two months. It will not take long to see if Stevenson can get the ball over the plate consistently if he’s going to be a Reds starting pitcher for the future.

      • doofus

        “Exceptional.” “Outstanding.” “Might end up…,” is real comforting. There are many “geniuses” on this forum that have witnessed 13 seasons of inept roster management from Bob Castellini’s front office. Some of you may be content to be Charlie Brown to the front office’s Lucy, but us “geniuses” will hold out until this front office actually proves itself capable of building a winning roster before we become front office and ownership’s lap dogs.

      • BigRedMike

        Is your post an example of a computer genius? Not sure how what you posted is any different than others wondering why Harvey was not traded. Interesting times when someone that has a different opinion of you gets classified as a “computer genius”.

    • doofus

      Three effective starting pitchers, not the mediocrity since 2013.

  48. vegastypo

    To be an asset off the bench, he first has to be ON the bench, instead of getting 4-5 plate appearances every day. And in his arbitration years, he’s gonna be a fairly expensive bench guy, assuming that is future role.

  49. redsfan06

    I read an article which said other teams viewed Harvey as a #4 – #5 starter. Another article said the Reds could probably expect the same return from the Brewers as they received for Broxton. Broxton was primarily a salary dump, yielding Shackleford and some other guy who is out of baseball.

    If all the Reds were offered was minor league filler without much upside, I don’t blame them for not pulling the trigger on a trade.

  50. Scooter Rolen

    I do think the Reds FO did a good job this Trade Deadline. They got 3 players back for Duvall, including two pitchers that have a chance of improving from a change of scenery. Two AAA pitchers to add to our pitching depth that have shown enough in the past to warrant a top-100 rating.

    Matt Harvey not being traded surprised me, but without knowing what other teams were offering I can’t say that Reds were wrong in holding onto him. From what I’ve heard about the Waiver process, it sounds like Reds can still accept a low-level trade if a better one doesn’t work out – and worst case they can still let a team claim him and free up playing time for Stephenson/Reed/Sims as soon as they want. I’m not horribly upset about Harvey, FO looked at the offers and decided they weren’t worth trading Harvey.

    If the Reds had not traded Duvall and had done nothing, I may not have been as happy with the FO. But as it stands, the Reds cleared up a log jam in the OF to give Winker/Schebler playing time and traded away a soon-to-be over-expensive bench piece for two pitchers who have shown promise in past and a decent and cheaper bench bat for short-term. Good trade.

  51. Mason Red

    So I guess the Harvey for Harper trade with the Nats fell through huh? Seriously people what did you expect for Harvey?

  52. pborbon

    If you place 0 value on winning games this year then yes I am sure they could have traded Harvey for someone that will never make the big leagues and a bag of balls. I have to think they weren’t being offered anything of value. I’m fine with them keeping Harvey and trying to build a winning culture and fan support/ticket revenue this season which needs to be part of the longer term goal.

  53. Brad Johnson

    Two things on here.

    First, I believe the Reds couldn’t get a trade done here because I believe, at least it’s seemed in recent history, they have been trying to get a lot back in the trades, more than they are giving up. For instance, with Cueto, they got back three higher prospect lefthanded pitchers. I would accept that for Cueto, for one player. It may have been a trade that helped the Royals win a WS, but I believe we got the best in that trade, at least at that time.

    With Harvey, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds were trying to get the same thing or something similar. And, no team bit.

    It was going to be tough for us to get any good deal for us for anything, anyhow. I mean, I would judge that would have only gotten back one prospect, not much more. Besides Duvall and Hamilton, we are pretty set at every regular position. We need pitching. And, no team in the hunt is going to give up any pitching. And, any lower level team with any kind of pitching was probably being gobbled up by the teams in contention. So, it was going to be hard for us to get anything of worth, anyhow.

    Nope, if we make any great “hit” in getting some starting pitching, it’s going to be with off season trades or free agent signings. We’ve tried the youngster stuff too long. I believe if anyone can make a turn with the youngsters, it will be Darwin. But, I’m getting tired of waiting for them.

    My estimation, we are still 2 quality starting pitchers away from contention. Talking two pitchers where, if we were to make the playoffs, if we had our choice of any pitchers, we would go into the playoffs with. Frankly, I can’t see ourselves going into the playoffs with any of these starters right now. Possibly Harvey, but I want to see a bigger sample.

    • Brad Johnson

      Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if they resign Harvey, provided he likes it here and would want to stay here, and doesn’t require any kind of gigantic deal from us. Especially if he does pitch well the rest of the way, I believe he is a pitcher exactly like the type we would be looking for.

  54. REDLEGS64

    Everybody wants a winner in 2019/2020. So Dick Williams is looking to make that happen.

    Trading Matt Harvey was never going to secure that. This was not a Dan Strailey timeline. Just as keeping Devin Mesaraco wouldn’t secure it. So maybe Harvey gets traded in August, maybe he doesn’t – and if the return is decent we can all be happier than we are today.

    Robert Stephenson will get his chance. A kid that has recently learned that walks do matter is starting to become a pitcher – not just a thrower. I believe he’s a starter in 2019 – he has good stuff and is learning the makeup of a ML pitcher. And don’t throw in the towel on Cody Reed – he also has electric stuff but is also learning how to be a smart pitcher.

    The Reds need pitching and the Duvy trade adds more arms to the mix. I know the sorting is painful to watch, but it’s constant. Guys get injured, become ineffective, every single week – so you can’t have too many arms.

    I’m frankly happy to see the stockpile of young arms. The most important thing going forward is a vision of how to use them to build a contender.

    • RedsFaninPitt

      Agree 100%. Most people on this site lose it over the smallest matters.

      • doofus

        It’s obvious this site is not for you. The motto of this site is: “Where obsessive fans of Cincinnati Reds baseball gather, since 2005.”

  55. jay johnson

    The only trade that looks to me like the seller made out was Tampa trading Archer.
    They got the pirates #1 prospect who is ready right now,a major league starter +a ptbnl.And Archer is really only a 2-3 starter.
    The return for Harvey would have been a player who will never touch the majors.
    I usually hate the front office but this non move I love.
    BTW I hate the Duvall trade as we got bubkis for a 30/100 near gg guy under contract for league minimum.
    PU trade.

    • Jeff Reed

      The Duvall trade adds a pitcher, Sims, who could be a starter or in the bullpen. You never have too many pitchers. The trade also opens up the crowded outfield for Winker, Schebler, Ervin or Williams for the next few years.

  56. Westfester

    I’m fine with the trade deadline work of the Reds. They traded Duval, which was pushed heavily on this site. The return on that trade sounds very promising. As for Harvey, I think the reason for such a reaction is that we overvalued Harvey in our own minds. The national news guys have basically been “meh” when they look at Harvey’s output. A couple more starts in August could help bolster his value when a contender loses a starter and becomes desperate (ex., Chris Sale just hit the DL). He’s helped stabilize the rotation, which we forget was a complete disaster. With Homer pitching like old Homer (I guess there was truth to the reason he went on the DL, that he really WAS hurt) we can finally sort out the final 3-4 spots and give the young guys breathers for the remainder of the season. Finally, keeping the majority of the team intact helps build a winning culture. They aren’t seeing their teammates being shipped off for prospects, which makes them feel that this team should now expect to win. This team is fun to watch and will continue to be fun to watch until the end of the season.

  57. doofus

    No matter what, the perpetual contenders get deals done; and, they keep winning. It’s laughable that some will go to great lengths to make excuses for the front office’s inability to build a winning roster. I guess BC has a bigger family than most thought.

    • Bill

      Which perpetual contenders? I am not defending not making more trades, but there are only a few teams who keep winning and they all have big payrolls. Even the “Cardinal Way” and trading for Ozuna, signing free agents is leading to a barely above .500 record. The Giants and the Nationals are also hovering at .500 with their massive payrolls.

      • doofus

        You are conflating several issues. Let’s keep it simple, who are the perpetual contenders that get deals done and win?

      • Bill

        I’ll take that as you don’t have any examples of “perpetual contenders”. Yankees? Dodgers? Red Sox? Everyone else is in a cycle of rebuild, compete, decline. Maybe the Cubs join them, but the farm system is not there for trades anymore. Houston will be good for a few years, but can they retain everyone and pay the salary? Giants, Nationals, and Cardinals were always supposed to be competitive but are now facing the idea of a rebuild.

  58. doofus

    With respect, I find it amusing that anyone would think that keeping the present team intact will help this team build a winning culture. Socially transmitted behavior patterns will not help this team win. It’s simple, this team does not have enough good ballplayers and pitchers, which successful teams know you need to win.

    It’s fun to watch Ervin, Peraza and Gennett make one defensive mistake after another?

    It’s fun to watch Suarez, Ervin and Votto run the bases like they’ve never played the game before?

    Some of you really sound like cardinal trolls.

    • Bill

      I was in favor of trading Gennett, however the shoulder injury probably took that option away. Ervin is not part of the future and is only playing due to injury. Peraza could be upgraded, but currently there isn’t a better option, there isn’t even a backup SS on the team. Votto’s base running and Suarez’s errors are both frustrating, but I would gladly keep both of them in the lineup. The pitching has been disastrous and is where the most improvement can be made.

      If it were me I would trade Gennett and Hamilton, put Senzel at 2B, sign a CF and a SP and see where that takes the team. 2020 is probably more realistic, but they could sneak into a wild card next year. Cardinals and Pirates have problems, but the Cubs and the Brewers are still going to be ahead of the Reds without a significant change in the pitching performance

  59. Bill j

    Wasn’t the Pirates suppose to be in trouble this year? They’ve done pretty well after trading a good pitcher and the face of the franchise.

    • Bill

      They are doing well, but not well enough to make the playoffs. That 14 win streak before the break made them believe there was a chance, but I don’t think they catch the Brewers or Cubs

  60. Michael E

    Lots of beef for/against Harvey. I am not all that concerned about him. He is a mediocre SP that no one thinks will ever be more than an SP3 (bad rotation) or SP5 (good rotation). He won’t bring back much, especially since the Reds FO is still frustratingly asking for MLB ready players instead of pure upside returns.

    The only way Harvey re-signs is if NO other team offers a good 4yr + deal. Harvey may then sign a 1 yr $10 million deal with lots of incentives to try and hit gold next off-season if he can pitch at least league average. I can’t imagine a deal with Harvey, outside of that, where I will be glad they signed him. We could be looking at a Homer Bailey 2.0 issue, and we didn’t know Homer would be injury-plagued at that time, he was healthy and entering his prime with his best year yet.

    All that said, my beef is holding on to Hughes and Hernandez. Seriously, why? They’re good, yes. they’re somewhat cheap for RPs. They’re also EXACTLY what you cash in on when rebuilding. sign cheap vets, if they play well, flip them for a top 6 or top 8 prospect from another team. sigh.

    We’ll probably spend all available free money on Gennett and Harvey and be awful and strapped for payroll space for the next 4 years. That is the pessimist in me. Maybe they’ll just say no to bad deals.

    I can see those wanting to sign Gennett and Harvey on here three years from now claiming they didn’t want anything to do with Gennett or Harvey at those prices. Rinse and repeat.