This week’s respondents are Chris Garber, Jason Linden, Jackson Thurnquist, Jordan Barhorst, and Bill Lack.

Our Weekly Reds Obsession: How would you resolve the Nick Senzel question (and, relatedly, the Scooter Gennett question)?

By the way, I sent this question out to our writers on Friday. You know what was announced on Saturday.

Chris Garber: This is a terrible question and Nothing Matters.

The Reds’ treatment of the Nick Senzel question has been simply inexplicable. Their #1 prospect is blocked — by a very, very good major leaguer — and they’re showing no indication of making any efforts to resolve the situation. Now, their apparent indecision has been bailed out by a stupid, no-good injury. But in any event, my resolution starts with a simple premise: Nick Senzel WILL be in the Opening Day lineup for the 2019 (Cincinnati) Reds. Work backward from there, of course.

But this is where the Reds’ dithering puts us even more in the dark than normal: We still don’t know if Senzel can play shortstop (or outfield) credibly. We don’t know if Geno Suarez could credibly return to shortstop, thus opening third base for Senzel. And we don’t know if Scooter can play the outfield, or whether he’s interested in a team-friendly contract extension. Maybe the Reds have informed opinions on some of these things; maybe they know Gennett’s trade value. But they haven’t given me any ability to answer them, so I refuse to answer on the grounds that any answer I give is likely to be contradicted by the facts.

Jason Linden: (Before the Senzel injury news.) If Scooter Gennett is the starting second baseman at the end of July and Nick Senzel is healthy, the Reds will have made one or more enormous mistakes. One of the things I keep driving at is that – whether the Reds keep Gennett or not – he is an abysmal defender at a position where defense matters. Nick Senzel is MUCH better defensively. Gennett belongs lower on the defensive spectrum.

Also, regardless of how you think he’ll age as a hitter, Scooter is not going to magically get better at second. I still lean toward thinking he should be traded, but he definitely shouldn’t be kept at second. And no, we don’t want a Senzel-Gennett middle infield. From what I’ve seen, I think Senzel is probably a good 2B and an adequate SS. Pairing an adequate SS with a bad 2B is a recipe for disaster when the pitching staff is as shaky as the Reds staff right now. Move Scooter or trade him, but don’t keep playing him at second when there’s a better option.

(After the Senzel injury news.) Addendum: Baseball is poop and everything is terrible. No, really, what I said still stands, except now it’s all about Senzel starting for the team next year.

Jackson Thurnquist: Well, the answer I had written before we learned Senzel was done for the year was that the Reds need to call up Nick Senzel immediately and focus on giving him as many major-league at-bats as possible, regardless of where he plays in the field. Defense is important, sure, but Senzel has nothing left to do in the minors, and the sooner he becomes acclimated to the majors, the sooner he can become a perennial All-Star.

The injury, in the grand scheme of things, doesn’t particularly change much except timing. With Senzel out for the rest of the season, there’s absolutely no reason why he doesn’t join the team next April. Scooter Gennett needs to be traded regardless of Senzel: Gennett is a valuable player right now who will likely not perform well enough in the future to justify his next contract, which makes him a clear trade piece. Nick Senzel being injured simply allows the Reds to trade him at the deadline or over the offseason, if they like. There are other major league caliber options at second – Alex Blandino or Dilson Herrera could play the rest of the season if they trade Gennett at the deadline.

Jordan Barhorst: Although I doubt this will be the case, the Nick Senzel injury shouldn’t change anything for the Reds. As we all know, there’s a clear logjam at second base in the organization. The plan should still be to shop Scooter Gennett as hard as possible, and then let a young guy (Dilson Herrera now that Senzel is out for the season) take the reins.

Dilson Herrera seems to finally be healthy. Let’s not forget that the plan was to have Herrera on the 25 man roster heading into the season, but yet another injury derailed that plan. Calling up Dilson will not only get him another shot at the big leagues, but will also allow Shed Long to assume 2B duties at AAA, which would be great for his development as well.

Bill Lack: (Before the Senzel injury news.) In my opinion, the options are:

1) Peraza to CF, Senzel to SS
2) Suarez to SS, Senzel to 3B
3) Gennett to OF, Senzel to 2B

Really depends on what the team decides to do with Gennett. Personally, I’d try to sign him to a reasonable deal before the deadline; if that isn’t possible, I’d trade him, then bring Senzel up and he’s my second baseman. If you get him signed to, say, a four-year deal, I put him in the outfield and play Senzel at second.

The sad thing is that this team had half a season to come up with a plan to figure out what possible positions Senzel could play and they’ve wasted it with the positions they already knew he could play. Why play him at shortstop the other night for one game? What’s the point? Why not have him at shortstop all season? Why not try him in the outfield, see how he does?

This is the kind of stuff I think people are talking about when they say this team has no plan.

(After the Senzel injury news.) With the terrible news of Senzel’s season ending injury, it makes this question irrelevant for 2018. IMO, this makes it a wasted year in Senzel’s career. I don’t think the Reds learned anything they needed to know about Senzel’s capabilities for the future.

68 Responses

  1. Nick Carrington

    Interesting note that Gennett has positive UZR value since May and while still on pace for a below average season defensively, hasn’t been nearly as awful as the narrative suggests.

    He could still revert back to the last two years when he was awful, but he hasn’t been that bad this year.

    • VaRedsFan

      You beat me to it Nick. I know errors don’t to tell the whole story about defensive ability, but Scooter has only made 1 error since May 7th. He has made both good, and great plays during that tenure. Let’s not forget, that his early season problems could have been attributed to the shoulder injury.

  2. JimBobCraig

    Trade Duvall at the deadline. Package Winker, Hamilton and Shed Long in the off-season for a starting pitcher. Convert Scooter to Left Field and sign for 4 years $40 million ( replacing 1 year of arbitration) Make Senzel the starting 2b in 2019. Allocate $15 million for a free agent center fielder. 2019 plan: really good offense, 5 inning pitchers, really good bullpen, don’t start the season 3 – 18 and 2019 will be fun.

  3. DHud

    Move Gennett to LF. Acquire a young bonafide SP by packaging Duvall and/or Hamilton and/or Harvey with redundant prospects (anyone not named Senzel or Greene). See if someone would overpay for Iglesias. I wonder if the Dodgers would bite on Verdugo or Urias or both in a blockbuster.

    Iglesias, Gennett, BHam for Urias and Verdugo?

    • Bill

      I don’t think anyone is giving up a quality SP for Duvall, Hamilton, and Harvey. First you have to find a team that needs a backup LF and CF as well as a SP. I would assume this hypothetical team would just go with that young SP instead of Harvey and I don’t see any team needing both Hamilton and Duvall.

      Trade Harvey and Hamilton for some lottery ticket prospects. Trade Duvall if it is part of a package deal that brings back either a SP, CF, or SS. Trade Hughes or anyone else not signed beyond 2019 for a reasonable return. Trade Iglesias and Gennett only for top prospects.

      • DHud

        You’re correct; that’s why I said with prospects. Duvall or Hamilton or Harvey aren’t the headliner, but maybe Trammel and Tyler Stephenson are with the prior being the throw in pieces

  4. Sandman

    I was glad to hear/read that at least a couple of these guys included Peraza in this Gennett/Senzel equation. For the ones who didn’t it’s like it’s not even on their radar and that’s a little crazy to me bcuz Peraza sux imo. He’s nothing more than a backup/bench piece. I think the Senzel injury gives the Reds the opportunity to start fresh with him next year by keeping him in the minors so he can learn SS. Give him more time/practice there. Give him a chance to get better there. And if he needs a full season in the minors to learn the position then so be it. It’s funny to me that people keep saying how young Peraza is in relation to him getting better but some of these same people don’t believe in Senzel’s ability to learn SS even though he’s still young as well. I suppose that’s a double edged sword though. I don’t believe in Peraza’s ability to get better (don’t believe he will) so I guess one could hold the belief that Senzel won’t get any better defensively at SS. I guess I just talked myself into a corner regarding young players abilities (or lack thereof) to get better at certain aspects of their game. I guess it all boils down to this for me and anybody who doubts Senzel’s ability to learn SS…I think we all can pretty much agree that Senzel’s ceiling is higher than Peraza’s. I think it’s foregone conclusion that Nick is better than Jose even now or in the future. So I say, “why not give the kid with a higher ceiling every opportunity to take the SS position for himself by giving him a full year in the minors (if needed) to really learn it?” That way 2B could be opened up for Long or Herrera a little later down the line (like maybe a year or two or however far away they are).

  5. Bill

    Gennett is similar to the Cozart and Frazier situations except there is a top ranked prospect blocked by Gennett. They are great guys you would love to have on the team, but letting them go was the right decision. In both of those cases the Reds waited too long to make move. Frazier wasn’t traded because he just won the HR derby, Cozart due to incompetence at the trade deadline and injuries. Neither of those guys are repeating their All Star performances. Even waiting too long on Frazier, gave the Reds Schebler as the starting RF and they could have gotten more if they weren’t so desperate to get Peraza.

    If Gennett signs an extension it changes everything, but his price tag is at an all time high right now and I assume he wants to get paid on this next contract. Somehow the Reds need to improve the pitching, so if part of that equation is trading Gennett you thank him for what he has done and give him a display in the Reds Hall of Fame for his four HR game that he can visit when his new team comes to Cincinnati.

    • JimBobCraig

      A little different situation this year. Frazier was traded because a rebuild was starting. Dick Williams stated that they would have liked to extend Frazier, but the Angels overpaid. The Reds are no longer tearing down. They are building up. Keep Scooter.

      • Bill

        Frazier was traded because his contract would be up before the Reds were competitive again. Gennett’s contract is up next year and the Reds won’t be competitive next year without starting pitching. The team was counting on Disco, Bailey, and Finnegan all being in the rotation along with a couple of young guys. So far they have Disco back from injury, Finnegan and Bailey giving up batting practice for Louisville’s opponents, Harvey who will be a free agent, Mahle and Castillo who have struggled, and Romano who is probably nothing more than a spot starter. Unless the rotation is upgraded 2019 is just another year of sorting

    • Chris Miller

      I don’t get this mindset. You want to trade arguably the most productive 2nd baseman in the league over the last two seasons now, because you want to play a young prospect. This team can ill afford to move Votto, Suarez, and Gennett, PERIOD. Gennett can be signed for a hometown deal, at least that’s how it sounds. Worst case, he makes 10 mil in arbitration next season. Gennett has also said he’d play LF if asked. Cozart had one year of good numbers; Gennett has now had 1.5, and doesn’t look to be slowing down. Frazier was over-rated period, so both those guys are terrible comparisons to Gennett. I just don’t understand the mindset people have of dealing away the best players on the team, only to replace them with younger unknowns. And no, this is not a knock on Senzel. I’d have him playing SS today, if it were me (well, of course that’s if he didn’t just get injured). We just signed Suarez to a great team friendly deal; why in the world wouldn’t you try to sign Gennett for one as well, but much shorter of course?

      • Bill

        I would trade him because it improves the team. What insider knowledge do you have that shows Gennett is willing to take less money than he is worth to play for the Reds?

      • DHud

        Are the Reds better with Gennett at 2B and status who or with Senzel at 2B plus whatever Gennett could return (maybe a good SP)? That’s the mindset. Use the assets you have to fill needs you have.

      • Mason Red

        Trading a player who is hitting .330 with 13 HR’s and over 50 RBI’s (sorry WAR obsessed folks,I’m still old school stats wise) is totally ridiculous. Move him to the OF so we all don’t have to watch Scooter win a batting title in another uniform.

      • Bill

        You will probably be watching him in another uniform in a year. Personally I won’t care if Gennett won the batting title in a Reds uniform. I would prefer a competitive team for the next five years instead

  6. roger garrett

    Its a simple process that this team just struggles with all the time,They fall in love with guys that perform and don’t perform.The guys like Todd and Cozy had value but they waited too long to get anything in return,The guys like Billy that never do perform well they keep hoping and here we are in year 5 still hoping.Can’t do either of these things and if you just stick to performance and the data that is available to everybody you don’t make these type of mistakes

  7. lost11found

    Trading Gennet and Duval clears the jam in many ways. If you trade just Duval and move Scooter to LF, you havn’t helped the OF situation.

    Moving both allows the reds to move Winker to LF, Schebler to RF, and Dilson H/Blandino (eventually Senzel) to 2B.

    I like both Duval and Gennet, but it’s the clearest path forward at this time. And they both should have some value (especially in the AL) because of their power.

    • Chris Miller

      How is that a clear path? How is trading one of the league’s best hitters a clear path? I don’t understand the mindset of dealing away your best players at this point?

      • lost11found

        Trading away one that is a position where you have no reasonable alternative as a replacement is no good , sure. but trading one away where you eventually plug in a top prospect, and use the return to fix a shortcoming elsewhere, that is a clear path.

        I love what Gennet has done the past couple of seasons, but sometimes you have to take a big risk to take a big step forward…

      • Joey

        Isn’t this what the Brewers did when they gave away Scooter for nothing? We don’t want to pay the guy plus we have a good prospect who can take over. Look how that turned out….

      • D Ray White

        The difference is the Reds have 3 legit big league starters at 2b in the minors. Senzel, Herrera, and Long. All are cheap. Scotter will not be cheap, and will soon enter the decline phase. Scooter has had 1.3 years of excellence and 4 or so of middling play. Eventually he’s likely going to come back to earth, and be expensive to boot.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        Chris, I am in your court on this point. The pro-Senzel folks are basing their argument on the fact that they expect him to be better defensively at second than Gennett, to hit close to what Gennett is hitting, and be under cost-effective club control for six years instead of the current 1.5 years left for Gennett. I understand the arguments, and there is definite merit in them.

        What I think a lot of folks are missing on all of this is that if Dick Williams goes to another GM and says, what will you give me for Scooter Gennett, he is dealing from a position of weakness. If you want another Aroldis Chapman deal, in terms of the quality of players the Reds got in return, then push for Williams to frantically try to trade these guys.

        Dick Williams has to wait for other GMs to come to him and make him an offer for Gennett, Duvall, etc., etc. He has shown in the past that method works the best. In the Dan Straily trade, he told the story on some media about how the Marlins asked about Straily, and that he said Luis Castillo had to be part of the package. That discussion lingered for weeks, if not months, until the Marlins said yes to including Castillo.

        Reportedly, the Giants wanted Billy Hamilton over the winter, but Williams was asking for one of their top prospects in return. The Giants said no. The Reds believe Hamilton has value, and he does.

        The Reds have a very, very valuable asset in Gennett, and can’t just “get rid of him.” They have to get at least equivalent value. If they do, I’m all for it, because there are needs elsewhere on the team, and the glut of second base talent is the place to deal from. To just “get rid” of Gennett implies the expectation that Senzel is going to come in and be everything that Gennett is. We all hope he is, but we don’t know that for sure at this point.

      • Scott Carter

        Excellent and well thought out post Tom.

      • Kettering Reds Fan


        I’d add one other proposition to the argument, one which has been discussed before by Jason Linden.

        If the Reds were able to sign Gennett to a team-friendly two year/three year/three year plus option contract, would it actually -improve- his trade value at year end or next year simply because arbitration variables are off the table and the contract locks in a favorable element of certainty in price and duration relative to the open market?:

        The other questions I’ve got are:

        (a) I’m not overly familiar with Gennett’s prior history. Is here any actual experience in the outfield positions to look at or is this all speculative on behalf of the audience here? It’s easy to move baseball cards around on the field, actual players may find it harder. And how much time do you give him to get comfortable in the role? (Granted, this would all be easier if Duvall or Hamilton get moved at mid year.)

        (b) How do you get Dilson Herrera adequate playing time if he’s called up? Right now, the Senzel situation has made him the “key log” to be resolved in opening up the infield position gridlock. And, if you bring him up, is it for the purpose of “showcasing” him or making someone else (Blandino, Long, Perazza) more available to offers?

      • lost11found

        JL doesn’t like the business reasons for delaying Senzel’s call up, but a sign and trade with Gennett would be a business is business way of doing things as well, and hurt your reputation with other Pre-arb players on the team now where the Reds might like to sign them. They will wonder, if they sign this pre-arb deal, is it a legit offer from the team to want them to stay or not.

      • Kettering Reds Fan

        Actually a reply to Lost/Found……

        Point taken but that wasn’t precisely the point I was trying to make.

        If the Reds sign Gennett to an extension, I am definitely -not- suggesting that management is -intending- to rapidly turn and flip. If he’s extended, it means management sees a role for him for probably the next two seasons.

        OTOH, though, risk is always present and there is no absolute security. Absent a no-trade clause, every player knows that he -can- be dealt under certain conditions beneficial to the team. It’s part of the business and most, if not all, players – and their agents – know it. At some point down the line, -someone- is going to need an established 2B really bad and Gennett’s economics will be known as opposed to free agents (either new signing or rental) and they might be highly favorable compared to other existing talent.. So, eventually, other clubs are likely to come calling even if management hasn’t put out the “available” signal. Would -you- hang up the phone until you saw what was (potentially) on offer?

      • Bill

        He has about 15 games between the corner spots. I watched one of those games and it wasn’t good. Not that he can’t improve, but what I saw was not promising

      • Tom Mitsoff

        Gennett played some outfield last year and didn’t look very good, probably because he’s never played there before. He’d need a lot of work to become decent in the outfield. But who thought he’d be this kind of hitter? You never know until you try.

      • D Ray White

        The Chapman trade was a case study in how to not trade an asset. That move had Castellini written all over it. Unless Scooter starts shooting pistols off in his house or getting accused of hitting his wife his value will not tank.

      • Tom Mitsoff

        You might recall the history of the Chapman trade that is often forgotten: Originally, the Chapman trade was going to be to the Dodgers for Schebler, Peraza and Dixon. Then, just before the announcement, it was revealed that Chapman had an alleged incident with his girlfriend involving firearms. The Dodgers said no way Jose, and the Reds — fearful of the potential bad PR backlash — looked elsewhere to rid themselves of Chapman. Then a few weeks later, the White Sox asked about Todd Frazier. They were told, if you can find a way to get Schebler, Peraza and Dixon from the Dodgers, you have a deal. The Sox sent a package of prospects to LA. I think the Frazier trade is a stunning success, personally.

      • doofus

        What Dick Williams and Nick Krall need to do is create relationships with their peers instead of sitting on their asses waiting for other GM’s to come to lick their boots ala Walt Jocketty.

      • doofus

        Please, Scooter has a SHORT TRACK record with the Reds of providing good offensive numbers. I remember when Lee May, Tommy Helms, et al were traded for Joe Morgan, Cesar Geronimo, et al and I was appalled. We need to get away from the short term “warm and fuzzy” feelings we have about present players and TRADE THEM AT THEIR HIGHEST VALUES TO BUILD A STRONGER TEAM capable of making the playoffs.

      • Dewey Roberts

        If we can trade Scooter and Duvall and Hamilton for a cf, HOF 2b, starting pitcher another starter, count me in. Otherwise, let’s not be so quick to trade away assets.

  8. WVRedlegs

    Gennett has stated that the ball is in the Reds court now on a contract. He wanted to stay. Now Cincinnati should lob an offer back into Gennett’s court and give him until the last game before the all-star break to decide. If he balks start shopping him at the all-star break while Williams is amongst his peers at that game. The Reds could add some very good ML ready prospects from these teams and a couple very good lower level prospects from the Angels.

    Gennett and Hernandez to Cleveland.
    Duvall and Harvey to the LA Angels or possibly Arizona.
    Iglesias and BHam to Houston.
    RStephenson +1 to the NY Yankees.

  9. Jeff Reed

    I have wanted for some time to see if Gennett’s defense would improve in leftfield but there is no indication from the organization they’re going to give him time in the outfield. So, with Scooter’s value at a highpoint, trade him in a package that includes whomever, (Duvall, Hamilton, Hughes, Armstong…) for an all around centerfielder, and/or shortstop, and/or starting pitcher. The time is at hand to not dilly-dally without a plan and purpose, and get moving to make the Reds competitive again. The front office has a lot of trade variables. Make the most of it.

    • Jeff Reed

      Should have said Hernandez, not Armstrong.

  10. cfd3000

    Scooter is kicking past his coverage. Go back to the xwOBA numbers that Steve Mancuso posted a day or three ago. Votto 4th in the majors, Gennett somewhere near the middle of the pack. He’s been good, but also very lucky. No way he’s better than Senzel in the long run, and no way his perceived value goes anywhere but down from here. Now is the time to package Gennett to upgrade other positions. Blandino or Herrera can handle second just fine until Senzel is healthy for 2019. But the Reds need a better CF, a better SS, and multiple better SP’s. They do not need four or five second basemen. It’s not complicated. Trade from strength to address weaknesses. Even if Gennett has magically become Jeff Kent, a slight drop off to Senzel (unlikely imo) will be more than offset by upgrades at other positions. It’s time – I just hope the front office knows this, and can make a solid deal.

    • doofus

      Exactly. Enough of the warm and fuzzy over the short term results of a player that will be over 30 when this team makes the playoffs again.

  11. citizen54

    Gennett is the classic sell high guy. A glance at his stats tells you he has been getting lucky thus far, especially in home runs. The average home run distance this year is 398 ft. Scooter’s is 377ft. Average exit velocity mlb 88.8 mph, Scooter 87.1. His xwOBA is .333 meaning based upon his launch velocity and launch angle his wOBA should be near the league average, instead it sits at .382. Steve wrote an article a few months ago comparing Gennett with Duvall and his findings then still stand true today: Duvall (.358 xwOBA) has been making better contact this year than Gennett.

    I like Gennett and think he’s a good clubhouse guy but the Reds have a log jam at second and some kind of move needs to be made. They also need to see what they have in Dilson Herrera.

    • Indy Red Man

      Sorry but that’s insane. For one if you K then you haven’t made contact…..and I’m a Duvall fan. Go ahead and trade Scooter….then they’ll be on the lookout for a .850-900 ops guy like they just traded? Senzel has vertigo issues. Dilson has a case of the “Andrew Luck” shoulder half the time. Scooter is only 28 and guys like Daniel Murphy/Chase Utley were still tearing it up at 32.

      • citizen54

        Strikeouts aren’t a factor in xwOBA or wOBA. But you’re right, I probably should have said when they make contact.


        “xwOBA is more indicative of a player’s skill than regular wOBA, as xwOBA removes defense from the equation. Hitters, and likewise pitchers, are able to influence exit velocity and launch angle but have no control over what happens to a batted ball once it is put into play.”

        Basically, Scooter hasn’t been hitting the ball as well as his stats indicate. Outside of Peraza and Hamilton, he has the lowest xwOBA out of the all of the starters.

      • doofus

        So Scooter is equivalent to Murphy and Utley?

    • big5ed

      If you know this, then the other 29 teams know this as well. Thus, nobody will buy “high” for Gennett, nor would they have ever. You might as well keep him for now and trade him in the off-season.

      • WVRedlegs

        That is a rather overly simplistic look at it. By saying “nobody will buy high” is too generalistic. Teams with a need to upgrade at 2B will come calling. And teams with a dire need to get a quality bat in at 2B will come calling. It just takes 2 or 3 teams to get the bidding amped up. Who cares about the 29 other teams and what they know or don’t know. Care about the handful of teams that need a 2B and start to target potential assets (analytics dept.) and then get the scouts in to see them play. Be ahead of the curve. Don’t sit and wait and wait and wait until the market comes to you like a Walt Jocketty. Target what you want and be aggressive and go get it a la the Milwaukee front office.

      • lost11found

        Angels come to mind. Gennet would be a good piece for them now. Can DH and play 2B. Seattle too. Cano will be back for stretch run but is ineligble for playoffs.

      • doofus

        Bold and aggressive is not in the DNA of the Red’s front office personnel.

  12. Bill

    If they can sign Gennett to a 3 year deal then it may make it easier to make a deal. The problem as stated before is the Reds hold on to long to players, either because someone likes them or hoping to raise their value.

  13. Hanawi

    As I said on the game thread last night, keeping Scooter means you are giving up whatever prospects you can get back plus whatever the Reds could do with the money that he is making, which could easily be turned into a quality starting pitcher. It seems apparent that Senzel (and maybe even Herrera) could replicate 80% of Scooter’s offense, plus provide superior defense (and base-running in Senzel’s case). To me, it’s a no brainer to trade both Scooter and Iglesias to fill the holes in CF, SS, and SP. Relief pitching and 2B are the two strengths of the Reds system, so trade from them to get better in areas of weakness.

  14. doofus

    So it’s no longer called a “Rebuild,” it’s now a “Build Up?” As usual, without showing any real, positive results the front office just rearranges the deck chairs on the Titantic and there are some out there that believe the front office is actually doing something. P. T. Barnum was correct.

  15. docproctor

    All I’ll say is that Scooter is a bird in the hand. All prospects or trades are two in the bush.

    Scooter asked for an extension this off-season. The FO told him to show that last year wasn’t a fluke. He has done that, and then some.

    If we trade one of the top BA/RBI hitters in the league–and that’s a fact, not conjecture–I will be furious. We struck gold when we got Suarez for Simon. We need to take our waiver-wire Scooter gold and run with it.

    • doofus

      And look what the Braves have done in a short time. They did exactly what you are advocating against. Remember all players are prospects at one time.

      • doofus

        And, traded for Inciarte, D Swanson, Gohara, Foltynewicz, Newcomb, Toussaint, Fried; Amateur FA: Albies, Pache, Teheran.

      • Dewey Roberts

        Yes, but we don’t have the Braves FO. Remember that our FO pursued Peraza. I said then that Peraza would never be more than a good substitute. I don’t trust our FO to make savvy trades

    • doofus

      So the Reds should trade their prospects for players that look like Scooter?

      • docproctor

        No, they should groom their prospects like the Braves did. But they should also hold on to proven players–Votto, Suarez, Scooter.

      • doofus

        So are Red’s prospects better than any prospects that may be received in a deal for Scooter; or, dare I say Raisel Iglesias?

      • docproctor

        I’m all for trading Iglesias. He’s a luxury we don’t need, we have several options to replace him, and he would yield MUCH more than Scooter (especially given how long he is under team control).

        Scooter is a heart-of-the-lineup hitter who is a league-leader in several categories. He would leave a much bigger hole than Iggy.

      • BigRedMike

        What does Gennett’s stats up to this point of the season have to do with the future?

        Cozart had a better season last year than Gennett is having this year. Should the Reds have locked up Cozart because he was among league leaders?

        Again, if Gennett is so great, then the Reds should lock him up to a long term contract and start trading the prospects.

        Just make a decision

  16. Wakka

    *Throws an octopus on the ice* What about trying to move Votto to a contender for pitching/outfield prospects and then move Gennett to 1st where his defensive shortcomings would be reduced while retaining his bat? That would open up 2B/SS for a Senzel/Peraza duo and give Votto a chance to play some playoff baseball before he retires? It would also open up some salary room.

    • doofus

      Stop! How dare you think outside the box. That’s not allowed inside the land of Bob “We will bring championship baseball to Cincinnati” Castellini!

  17. roger garrett

    I have always felt we should trade Scooter if you get what we need in return.If he only brings a prospect which to me is a guy 2 or 3 years away from maybe being a big leaguer then well that would be dumb.The goal should be to match up with a team that has surplus at a position that fits are needs and is ready right now.Scooter is blocking somebody we feel can take over now with an upside that is greater and at a cheaper cost.We are not good enough to have any good players being blocked by any existing players.We have to trade guys when they are their peak or move guys around to different positons.We must have the 8 best players we have or can trade for on the field come opening day in 2019 period.

  18. bouwills

    The 2018 season is about: #1) The rotation & #2) the pitching staff. If you can get a young sp/ sp prospect for Scooter who can improve our current rotation, then you make the deal. Otherwise, someone has to pay a premium in prospects to get Scooter. As for Iglesias, you get either: a) your next cf, &/or b) your next ss, &/or c) a top of the rotation sp prospect (aa or higher). Total of 2 very good or 1 excellent plus 2 pretty good prospects- or you don’t trade Iglesias. I don’t see the Reds trading Duvall, Hamilton, Hernandez, or Hughes for less than a top 100 prospect each. So long as the Reds get something for Harvey, I really don’t mind if they don’t make July deals.

  19. David

    Maybe this helps clarify the issue.

    Assuming they were on different teams, would you trade Senzel for 1.5 years of Scooter? Think about it . If you really like Scooter then wait until after 2019 and sign him as a FA.

    To me, you need to find a team now who has a specific need but don’t expect a big haul. Not going to happen.

    • Old-school

      I agree. Scooter has had a great 2017 and first half of 18. The reds control him until his age 30 season though. If the reds can get a mid rotation starter for him( Braves traded Gattis for Folty) – great. I’m not sure that happens though. If the Reds can’t get a good return , let him haveva good 2019 at 10 million and worry about 2020 in 2020. I want the reds to add a solid lefty SP.