The Short Version: I dunno. It is what it is.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (20-37) 7 12 0
Arizona Diamondbacks (28-27) 4 13 1
W: Romano (3-6) L: Corbin (5-2) S: Iglesias (9)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

–I’ll be honest: I watched maybe one inning of the game. I’ve lost interest in the Cincinnati Reds. Feel free to recap the game yourself in the comments section below.

About The Author

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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92 Responses

  1. Seat101

    It’s your ball and glove.

  2. Tiffin Reds

    Be honest Chad how many more years is this rebuild gonna take? I’m happy with the win tho!

    • Colorado Red

      I was initially hoping to compete next year.
      However, it is looking like the rebuild i a total bust.
      Stupid moves by the FO/Owner.
      It may be X more years (until someone Ownership / FO gets a clue)

  3. David

    Duvall hit a grand slam. That will keep him i the line-up for another month.

    Yay?

    • greenmtred

      He also made a possibly game-saving catch late in the game.

      • Aaron Bradley

        Duvall has his moments, I say he is a keeper as a bench player… you could do a whole lot worse than him to fill in for an injured player. Then trade Billy with Iglesias for a CF upgrade (I am thinking Joc Perderson), play Winker daily, play Schebler daily… upgraded OF for cheap and get some prospects for Iglesias, preferably SP prospects that Soto can work with on changeup.

      • Aaron Bradley

        I should update to say I think we actually shed salary in this deal I propose. I am telling you the Dodgers covet Iglesias he locked them down a few weeks ago and sent them in a downward spiral… which they bounced back from, they are now climbing the standings with Turner healthy again.

  4. Joey Barrett

    I thought that you lost interest because the Reds suck. I clicked on the link and even though I already knew it it somehow stung me hard to read that officially Winker is the odd man out of the outfield. I mean how can that be justified? He is young, gets on base better than all the other outfielders. He doesn’t hit the long ball and his OBP is over .300 so they definitely can’t play him.

    • greenmtred

      It could be justified if they are trying to build interest and value for trades, though that may not be ample justification. It could also be justified if they are intent on trying to win more games this season, but, again, that jusitification may not be ample and seems to fly in the face of the rebuild narrative. It’s worth noting, though, that most of us are particularly enraged by the losing this year, with secondary angst about use of young players, or so it seems to me, and I include myself in that generalization. Schebler and Duvall were big contributors to yesterday’s win, each with homers and possibly game-saving catches which Winker may not have been able to make (the homers, either, for that matter, since Billy has twice as many as he does this year). He should be playing, though, but I doubt that it would make many of us happier with the losing. The times that try the soul.

    • lost11found

      With Winker’s less than good D, he needs some pop in the bat to make up for it. A high OBP is nice but he needs to contribute in other ways too.

      If the power goes away, then there is less to be afraid of as a pitcher and Winker will have to hit his way on more. Which in turn may lower his OBP..

  5. Old-school

    Every team leaves spring training 60-60. It’s the other 42 that matter.
    I’d put this in the 60 win column . The reds marketing team will put this one in the 42 column .

  6. TurboBuckeye

    This organization is a dumpster fire

  7. WVRedlegs

    First it was the Bengals and Marvin Lewis’s affinity for criminals and thugs populating their roster.
    Now it is the Reds and their affinity for front office stupidity.
    Turning off long time loyal fans has become Cincinnati sports franchise thing.
    It has come to this.
    Sparky Anderson is rolling over in his grave like a rotissery chicken.

  8. Bred

    The way things are going I seriously doubt that there will be enough positive material for your great, great, great grandchildren to write another book in the next 169 years.

  9. Bred

    I doubt there will be enough positive material for your great, great, great grandchild to write about in the next 169 years.

  10. Walt S.

    Winker plays terrible defense and has no power. I do not see any benefit to develop him, Reds should move on. And yes the rebuild will take longer I am fine with waiting.

    • jtburns11

      Jesse Winker has played less than 90 games and has less than 300 bats at this point in his career. I don’t understand how you have already come to this conclusion.

      • sezwhom

        Winker has one HR this year in 151 AB. I’m still waiting on the power too. He’s no where near Duvall defensively.

    • Patrick Jeter

      He has plenty of “power.” You have to look at things like exit velocity, hard hit balls, and xSLG, xWOBA to determine power.

      Home runs are a function of nothing but launch angle. You need power plus launch angle for home runs, but you can have power without home runs if you lack the launch angle.

      Winker’s swing is weird and inconsistent from what I’ve seen. Needs more loft for HRs.

      • MrRed

        Exactly. He has hit some of the hardest hit balls per statcast on the team this year. I say it’s a matter of time before some of those hits start going out. But of course, you have to play to be able to hit and the Reds aren’t going to commit to that. I guess because young players can’t improve at all. They “are what they are”?

  11. Shchi Cossack

    Mrs. Cossack kept threatening to ban the Old Cossack from watching the Reds play.

    4th inning with 1 out and Peraza on 1B. Romano sac bunt successfully only for Hamilton to strike out. Mrs. Cossack’s threats intensified as the Old Cossack fumed and fussed about the Reds stupidity.

    6th inning with 1 out and Peraza on 1B. Romano attempted a sac bunt unsuccessfully before striking out while Peraza stole 2B before Hamilton struck out. Mrs. Cossack issued a final ultimatum as the Old Cossack jumped from the Old Recliner and screamed veiled threats and obsenities.

    8th inning with no outs, Duvall on 2B and Schebler on 1B. Riggleman calls for a sac bunt from Peraza. The Old Cossack growls, “How’s this going to work out for you Riggleman! Just give up more outs! They don’t mean anything!” Peraza fouls out on his 2nd bunt attempt. The Old Cossack explodes and Mrs. Cossack makes good on her threat. No more Reds baseball games this season for the Old Cossack.

    After reading Chad’s link from the game summary(?), I don’t think I will even miss watching the games for the rest of this season.

    While waiting at the Little Cossack’s piano lesson this evening, I read an ESPN article on the 1st round drafting prowess of all 30 major league teams. Anyone want to guess which team was miserably last among all 30 teams in the success of their 1st round drafting. That actually made the Old Cossack feel better about not watching any of the remaining Reds games this season.

    • Mr. November

      Lol! This is perhaps the best recap I’ve ever read…

    • Aaron Bradley

      wow, we will miss you but please reconsider! You still feel emotion for such a bad team that should mean something to the missus.

    • WVRedlegs

      Great tale. Feel good that she didn’t banish you and the old recliner to the she-shed for watching Reds games.
      How in the world does Riggleman keep calling for sac. bunts with Hamilton up next? Sheer lunacy.
      Jocketty in Arizona to orchestrate these changes having to hold Williams and Krall’s hand in meetings with Riggleman. Very disturbing that Jocketty still the one in charge.
      Remember all winter we were told to “trust the process”. I trust nothing that comes from the Reds front office.

      • lwblogger2

        Jocketty is traveling with the front-office staff? Ick.

  12. ericsammons

    Teams make mistakes, I get that. But when there is a pattern to their mistakes, you can’t but question their competence. And boy do the Reds have a pattern: they hang on too long to their veterans and they wait too long to call up their prospects. Essentially, they overvalue their veterans and undervalue their prospects.

    Look at how little they got for the core of the 2010-2013 run, mostly by waiting too long to trade them.

    Look at how long they take to bring up their young prospects, and how quickly they cut bait on them.

    The real insanity isn’t that the Reds keep doing the same things, waiting for a different result. It’s that we fans keep believing in the Reds, expecting a different result.

  13. JR

    Chad, I feel your frustration. But all I need is the box score. I’d love to see Sparky have complete 100% control of this team. You would see a difference in a week. They would play better, look professional and Billy would be on the bench smiling.

  14. Jack

    We won Chad! Now instead of 110 losses, they will lose 109. That one is for you Chuck Schick . RIP

  15. JR

    Sparky took a chance of 19-year old Don Gullett. Sparky gambled on Concepcion and Geronimo. Too bad he isn’t around to nurture and guide Winker, Senzel and Castillo. All they have is a manager who quit on his former team.

  16. Indy Red Man

    Eugenio Suarez 1st 2 half-seasons in the bigs = 616 at-bats, 17 Hrs, 29 errors (1 hr every 36.2 atbats) and so bad defensively he made Edwin Scissorhands looks like Nolan Arenado.

    Jesse Winker so far…..272 atbats with 8 hrs (1 hr every 34 atbats). If Winker got the chance and worked hard at his game then he might be a pretty decent player?

    We won’t know if the Reds don’t play him. Same thing w/Bob Steve? Opponents hit .278 off Romano in his minor league career. They’re hitting .218 off Bob Steve. Are they going to let him grow old in AAA or are they going to give him a shot already?

    • james garrett

      I am with you Indy but the Reds are just dumb.Winker has always hit and got on base and was really good when he was called up last year.Then we do this platoon thing and of course just like the rest he has struggled but he still has more upside then the other 3 guys.Bob has electric stuff with a wipe out slider but was punished because he couldn’t throw strikes which is a problem for all of our starters but his is/was worse.Only the 20 mil per year guys go past 6 innings any more and if I remember right the average is 5.3 in the National league so who cares if he walks a dozen as long as he keeps you in the game and gets you through the 5th.He has nothing to prove in the minors because those guys can’t hit him anyway.

    • jessecuster44

      excellent point. Winker’s upside is much higher than the other three, but please, put him on the bench because of reasons.

  17. WVRedlegs

    Trust the Process, we were told by Williams all winter. What a farce.
    The Rebuild is a myth, like The Mothman.
    The Collapse is very real.

  18. Jreis

    Just don’t understand RLN obsession with Winker. .245 with 1 dinger. No threat at all to steal a base and plays outfield like a little leaguer.
    Adam Dunn off steroids! Lol

    • J

      I think it probably has something to do with the outstanding stats he accumulated every year in the minors. Just a hunch.

      • Bill Lack

        And the fact that he doesn’t make outs…. defense can be improved upon with work.

      • greenmtred

        It’s worth wondering why he hasn’t improved it, though. He should play, but he is currently a one-tool player, like everyone else in the outfield except Duvall, who has power and plus defense, but mostly isn’t hitting.

  19. redsfan06

    I hope Bailey does well in the bullpen. Maybe he can resurrect a 2nd career.

    The Price era was characterized by the indecision of whether to play for the future by playing young guys or to try to squeeze out a few more wins by sticking with under performing veterans. The decision to bench Winker out of the 4 outfielders appears to come from the same mold.

    The Reds are 3 years away from having a decent starting rotation. Of the 4 outfielders who won’t be around by then, Hamilton is a definite and Duvall is the oldest. Winker is the youngest by 3 years, is the only one who has an above average OBP and could use some seasoning.

    My ears are tortured by hearing the most grating of Dusty Baker’s sayings come tumbling out of Riggelman’s mouth in explaining the decision, “We are going to see if we can get the corner outfielders hot (going).” To make it worse, the decision was a conclusion made by the complete management team with new GM Krall and special assistant Buddy Bell joining in.

    • MrRed

      I echo your thoughts on this. As bad as this season is going and as bad as the Reds have managed this “rebuild” so far, this news makes it worse in that it demonstrates that this organization is not committed to building a winning team. They are making conscious decisions that fly in the face of trying to improve the roster. As if playing Schebler, Hamilton and Duvall everyday is going to help turn things around for the team or the individual players. This is the worst outfield in baseball. They can’t presently make things better but they could at least starting looking to the future.

      So which of the RLN editors is going to take the article that discusses the failure of this supposed rebuild?

  20. J

    I just hope we don’t all lose sight of the managerial play of the game, which was allowing Big Sal to hit for himself (with the entire bench available) just so he could attempt to bunt Peraza to second so Hamilton (hitting right handed, no less) could drive him in with a big two out hit. Sal struck out, Peraza stole second on the third strike, and BH stranded him at second. Then a new pitcher started the next inning. Because why burn a pinch hitter in a situation that appears to be an ideal time to use a pinch hitter?

    • james garrett

      At the time that was telling me he was going back out there for the 6th and I was hoping he was because he got em in the 4th and the 5th in order after Duvall tied the game.To me that was baby steps in his development but once Scott put the Reds ahead then you have another chance to take another baby step.May not have worked but it could have just as well.Fine line between developing young pitchers and trying to win the game.After the ole boy network decided to bench Winker it is obvious we want to try to win and developing players is not on the list.Riggleman will do just as he is told which by the network because well they have been so successful the last 4 years in turning this team around.Setting up Billy for an RBI chance is like playing BINGO and hoping they call your number when it was lost from the game 5 years ago.Just won’t happen.

  21. jctrum

    I know it’s difficult, but something will have to give. I’m curious why they’re abandoning the four man rotation. I know they say it’s to let the three get things going, but is Winker then just going to go stale on the bench? Maybe they want to let the vets build steam, to try and make some trades at the deadline? I’m not giving up, but I don’t know when I’d go to another game, and I’m sure many others will echo my sentiment. You can only shed so long before you’re left bare. When the cupboards and seats are empty, I’m curious what will happen.

  22. GreatRedLegsFan

    This organization is at crossroads, to say the least, as there’re still many veterans in the roster to call it a “rebuild” and only a handful (or less) potential prospects in the pipeline. For sure, it’ll take much more time and effort to right the ship.

  23. CI3J

    I’ve officially gone from cautiously optimistic on Riggleman to “RIGGLE MAN OUT!” with the news of Winker being relegated to the bench.

    How, HOW after all this time, does the team still not get it? I’m going to shout it here in hopes someone in the organization will hear.

    YOU’RE NOT GOING TO WIN EVEN IF YOU PLAY THE “BEST” PLAYERS WE HAVE NOW, THE POINT IS TO LET THE KIDS PLAY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WE’VE GOT!

    What else is the !%&#@&! POINT of all of this losing if it’s not going to lead to better days later when the kids hit their strides?

    • lwblogger2

      And they won’t give Winker to a chance to hit his stride as one of the regulars. It’s a complete joke and a waste of my time as a fan. Does Winker have a stride? I think perhaps he does but even if he doesn’t he needs to be given a regular chance to show it or not show it. It’s even worse than giving up on Peraza at 2B last year because 1) Peraza had a worse OPS than Winker and wasn’t playing very good defense 2) It was further along in the season when they benched Peraza 3) Scooter was tearing the cover off the ball every chance they gave him. Price pretty much had to play him or the clubhouse would have revolted.

  24. Davy13

    The fans should just fire the team – stop buying tix to games, stop buying merchandise, stop watching the team on TV – in others stop supporting the team financially. That’ll force to ownership to make a change.

    • Scott Gennett

      We’d also go to 100 Joe Nuxhall Way and burn some used tires…

    • Mike Adams

      I am not so sure.
      Owners and management think they are doing the right things and that it will result in a better team.
      If we fans do what you say, it will just put more pressure on owners and management to keep doing what they have been doing.
      The same old same old will not produce improvement.

      • Jeff Reed

        The Reds need a GM with authority who is not related to the ownership group. Without this element our team will not advance to the top of the heap. DW is now called the president of operations and he’s related to the ownership group. I think the relationship is too cozy for the Reds to compete with the hard charging teams that have a GM who is not related to the ownership. An obvious example is the history of baseball’s most successful franchise, the Yankees.

      • Davy13

        Jeff, my reply is to Mike not to you. I’m not sure why it placed my original reply after your comments. Your comment makes a lot of sense.

  25. Bill

    It looks like the Reds are just BC toy and a place for his friends to have good paying jobs. Please get an owner that cares!!

    • David

      It’s a very big investment, not a toy. But a place to employ Castellini’s offspring and look like they are “community – minded”. The Reds may or may not be making money for the owners, but the team is worth a lot more now than when they bought them. That’s a strong investment.

      The fans? We get lip service and “the rebuild”, and “trust the process”.

      A. There is no rebuild. They are running in place.
      B. There is no process. They are just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks.

      Keep playing Duvall and Hamilton, and let Winker sit. That’s how you develop young players.

      • james garrett

        Great post David.The Reds continue to not be 100% all in on the rebuild by playing Billy after 5 years of futility.They want to try and get Scott and Adam going by committing to them in the outfield which is great but as long as Billy and Peraza play every day this offense will get exposed.They can’t hit or get on base and throw in Tucker’s lack of power so far we are out manned offensively every game especially at the band box we play in.Tucker goes no where because he is the best defensive catcher in the game but Peraza needs sent down and Billy needs benched with Winker in right,Scott in center and Adam in left.Move Blandino to short and let them play.We will be worse defensively without Billy but we then have no holes offensively because Tucker does get on base and Winker will get on base my accident more then Billy ever has by trying.We find out about Blandino and Winker and we score more runs and probably win a few more games.

      • Davy13

        Thumbs up on the post David (great name). I would trust the rebuild and “the process” if their decisions in the offseason and onseason made sense, but they haven’t, example:
        ~ Exhibit A: Signing washed-up veteran pitchers (Arroyo, etc) for the rotation to make it appear that they’re trying to win, instead of letting young pitchers develop and succeed or prove to be failures doesn’t make sense…
        ~ Exhibit B: Not inserting young hitters with upside into everyday lineup (Winker), but keep inserting hitters who have barely cracked the .300 on-base % into the lineup for years (Hamilton) doesn’t make sense
        ~ Exhibit CNot using some of your unproven prospects as chips in the offseason to trade for young, proven, All-Star talent in their prime for years (Yelich, just age 26, CF) doesn’t make sense. A 2018 comp:

        Yelich: 7 hr 26 rbi 6 sb .307 ba .372 obp .492 slg .863 ops 1.6 WAR (WAR/6 seasons: 20.2)
        Hamilton: 2 hr 14 rbi 9 sb .208 ba .290 obp .301 slg .591 ops -0.1 WAR (WAR/6 seasons: 7.7)

        What a stark difference if Yelich were on the REDS! How much it would’ve translated to this season’s W-L? Who can say, but the Brewers are 25-7 when he plays (see the Fox Sports article “As Yelich goes, so go the Brewers” https://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/gallery/as-yelich-goes-so-go-the-brewers-053018). (p.s. Yelich can play LF)

        My point is not to cry over spilled (Yelich) milk (though it is cathartic), but it is exposing the exhibits of evidence that the team management from FO to game management has been inept and has not earned the fans’ trust in their “process.” They are not living up to the contract with the fans that ownership stated they would abide by when the team was bought (See Chad Dotson’s blog post).

      • greenmtred

        Nobody can say what the Reds’ won-lost record would be with Yelich in the outfield, but I’d bet it wouldn’t be significantly better unless he were also a really good starting pitcher.

      • Davy13

        You may be right especially about the awful starting pitching. Yet, I don’t think it is too much of a logical stretch to deduce that Yelich’s consistent bat would be far better than BillyH’s particularly at the top-middle of the lineup with a trickle-down effect in the order. Nevertheless, I agree with you that Yelich alone wouldn’t turn the season around 180degrees.

        However, my larger point is that he would’ve been a core piece (+Suarez, +Senzel, +Winker[maybe], etc) to advance in “the process” of rebuilding the team and provide the fans with a glimmer of hope, a faint light way at the end of the rebuilding tunnel. Obviously, the Yelich ship has sailed. Yet there are other opportunities in the horizon (maybe Machado or some other young stud).

  26. Scotly50

    I purchased the MLB pkg. I have discovered a fun team to watch. The Atlanta Braves.

    (BTW, I was a fan from the early eighties until around 2000)

  27. Matt WI

    Well dang. This is the most depressing game winning thread I’ve ever seen. Even the Old Cossack is in despair. I will hold the fort on this dark night of the soul for Redleg Nation.

    • cfd3000

      Thank you Matt. It’s good to see that at least one other Reds fan actually enjoyed the victory. There were a lot of positives yesterday. Instead of bemoaning the negatives from the ownership and management, about which we can do essentially nothing, I choose to appreciate the positives – strong bullpen, good bounce back by Romano after an awful first, key him either runs and defense from Duvall and Schebler, three hits for Votto, the return of Iglesias. Does it suddenly make the Reds a playoff contender? Of course not. But did I enjoy a Reds win to avoid a sweep? Absolutely.

      And I would point out that after starting the season 3-18 (or something like that) the Reds have played close to .500 ball with plenty more room for improvement, and reason to think those improvements just might happen. Bring on the Padres!

      • greenmtred

        Make that two other fans who enjoyed the victory. Some people hated it because Schebler and, particularly, Duvall played key parts in it. Same thing happens when Billy has a good game.

  28. Tom Mitsoff

    It’s very possible that the front office has decided that Winker does not have much more to offer than the other three veteran starting outfielders. I don’t know what other rationale there could be for deciding that Adam Duvall deserves an everyday starting position and Winker does not.

    I don’t agree with the front office at all, but I’m trying to understand the thought process. Maybe what they are seeing is that the only thing Winker brings to the table is on-base percentage. He doesn’t currently demonstrate speed, power, good defense or a good arm. I believe there’s a pretty good chance his batting average will increase significantly if given more time. But he’s not what is often referred to as a player having the classic “tools.”

    The idea that playing Duvall every day will allow him the chance to get hot and therefore increase his trade value is ludicrous. The baseball world knows what he is, just as well as us here at Redleg Nation. He’s a very good defensive left fielder who can hit the ball a mile if you make a mistake to him. Make good pitches to him and there’s a good chance you’ll strike him out. He wears down at the end of the year, which was one of the rationales for going to the outfield rotation in the first place. None of that is going to change if he gets on a hot streak.

    • Jeff Reed

      Winker has been a highly touted player coming up through the minors for some time. Hasn’t the organization been aware of his average, at best, speed and defensive abilities? I’ve looked forward to him coming to the Reds to join Votto as another OBP guy. I think the preference for veterans extends from Baker to Price to Riggleman. Just another Red’s roadblock to actually seeing what the young guys can do at the ML level. The Braves seem to know what a rebuild is about. I wish I could say the same for the Reds.

    • Jack

      Duvall hit a homer yesterday. That is a,hot streak.

    • greenmtred

      You’re right that the rest of the teams know about Duvall, but they also know that, besides being a good fielder, he’s hit 30 homers and driven in lots of runs. He does wear down, and he’s having trouble this season (though showing signs of coming around) but his value to a team that could manage his streakiness wouldn’t be negligible. But he does need to go on a hot streak to dispel the suspicion that he’s permanently declined.

      • lwblogger2

        If the idea is to build trade value though, I’d have to think that it can only go from very limited to limited. Duvall has some value, for all the reasons you stated. That value however is that of a 4th OF who seems pretty limited to LF. He can probably play RF as he has the range and arm to do it but prefers not to. It doesn’t matter that he and Schebler, even last year, probably should have swapped positions in the OF. Schebler’s arm and range (due to reads and routes and not due to lack of speed because Schebler is actually pretty fast) play better in LF than RF. Duvall, could play RF as I said above. So, since he pretty much is stuck in LF and reluctant to move, Duvall has limited trade value, even as a 4th OF or possibly a high-risk 3rd OF on a competing team. That means the Reds aren’t going to get much for him, even if they can trade him.

  29. WVRedlegs

    I hate to say it, but the Reds are following the script to a T of the movie Major League. Bob Castellini is the woman owner of the team trying to kill off attendance. The continual losing, the rosters full of AAA and AAAA players. Which will allow them to move the team to a more profitable locale, like say Montreal and a brand spanking new domed stadium. That is Big Bob’s goal, Montreal or bust. Bringing winning baseball back to Cincinnati was all a rouse.

    • greenmtred

      He’d better do some research about what happens to baseball teams in Montreal.

      • MrRed

        At this point, it’s fair to wonder if any research (i.e. analytics) is taken into account by ownership and the FO.

    • lwblogger2

      I hope you’re wrong. I doubt the Reds could move as the A’s and Rays haven’t been able to.

  30. docproctor

    Benching Hamilton or Duvall instead of Winker wouldn’t really be “benching”–because they would likely get in the game at some point. Hamilton could be a pinch runner, Duvall a pinch hitter, and BOTH would be ideal defensive replacements. In other words, they would get off the bench and get in every game.

    But when Winker is benched, the only way he is getting in a game is for one pinch-hitting AB. And if the pitcher is a lefty, Blandino or Dixon will get that PH ahead of Winker. Winker will truly be benched.

    I went to a game about a month ago where Winker started in LF, got replaced by Duvall for defense in the late innings, then Duvall hit a walkoff HR in the 10th. That seems like the perfect way to manage this outfield right now.

    • Indy Red Man

      Its the island of misfit toys. Duvall is normally pretty dangerous vs lefties but any righty that changes speeds and has a decent slider owns him! Schebler is super streaky and can hit HRs vs lefties, but he’ll also K half the time and walk about twice in 50 atbats vs lefties. If you had Schebler power/bat speed with Winker’s knowledge of the strike zone then you’d have a beast! Billy can’t hit anyone….and he’s starting to get expensive. He’d be my odd man out everytime! They could carry him offensively if the had the other holes in the lineup plugged up but that’s not happening. They already tried to trade him so I don’t understand why he has to play so much?

  31. J

    I’m reluctant to suggest the front office ever has any sort of plan, but given the vagueness of Riggleman’s explanation, I do suspect there’s something he’s not at liberty to say. And I assume (hope) the most likely explanation is they’re trying to trade one of the three starting outfielders, allowing Winker to eventually become full time. But they can’t trade any of them unless at least one of them starts hitting, and they can’t start hitting unless they play.

    • MrRed

      It’s fair to surmise. But then the bigger question would be: What return do the Reds expect to get for any of these guys and is it worth the opportunity cost of not playing Winker?

      • greenmtred

        Depends on how long it goes on. A few weeks probably doesn’t hurt Winker’s development permanently, does it?

      • MrRed

        For the meager or zilch return they’ll get for those guys? Yeah, I’ll take some much needed development time and reps for Winker. The Reds aren’t winning either way.

  32. WVRedlegs

    The other side of the coin does have an intriguing component and may explain why the Reds front office traveled in mass to Arizona to meet with Riggleman. It might not be the trade deadline that made them do away with the 4 man OF rotation at this particular time. It might have to do with the MLB draft next week. Most MLB draft picks are not tradable, however Competitive Balance picks in between rounds 1 & 2 and 2 & 3 are tradable. The Reds do not have a Comp. Bal. pick in between rounds 1 & 2 this year, they have one in between 2 & 3. This year would be a great year to have a CB pick in the CB-A round, picks #36 to #43 overall. While it is said the draft isn’t particularly deep at the top, it is said to be pretty deep with talent between pick #20 to pick #60 or so.
    Cleveland has their 1st round pick at #29, a supplemental pick (losing Santana to free agency) at #35, their CB-A pick at #41, and their 2nd round pick at #67. A team in contention like Cleveland might not value that CB-A pick as much as a rebuilding team like the Reds would and might try to trade it.
    Cleveland is having problems in CF and RF, although Zimmer is on a rehab assignment and will be back soon to help their CF situation. Cleveland is having big problems at 2B, and minor issues at DH and 1B. Cleveland is also having huge bullpen problems. Not so much the end of the bullpen with Allen and Miller. They have problems in between their starters and getting to Miller and Allen. Cleveland might not want to pay up for Iglesias, but might be looking to upgrade several bullpen spots. Hernandez, Floro or Lorenzen might be attractive to them. Cleveland can fix two spots on their roster with a Duvall or Schebler (Cleveland needs some extra power) and Hernandez or Floro or Lorenzen trade package for OF/CF Tyler Naquin and that CB-A pick at #41. Naquin is currently on the DL with a hammy issue. But he can play CF and RF.
    That might be the reason for the urgency to scuttle the Reds 4 man OF rotation at this particular time and get the 3 incumbent OF playing full time. If Monday comes and goes without any trade with Cleveland, this may not have been the reason then. Four of the 8 teams that have a CB-A pick do not have a 2nd round pick. And KC is the only other team with additional picks and probably are not in the market to trade their CB-A pick as they enter the rebuild phase. So Cleveland looks like a viable trade partner early on here before the draft.

    • Indy Red Man

      Cleveland has big time needs. Arizona can’t score versus non-Reds opponents and their star CF’er (name escapes me?) won’t be back anytime soon. Colorado just lost their 8th inning guy that has been so unhittable as well. Ottavino? The Angels. The Mariners. A lot of teams that might give up a little more then they want to in the long-term to solve short-term issues! A team like Detroit is going nowhere but OF Nick Castellanos has been around long enough to start to command some decent money. They’re just as far away as the Reds so maybe they want to go cheap and will trade him for prospects?

  33. J

    Of course there’s always the strong possibility that the Reds have no real plan and are just sort of making things up as they go along, and a couple weeks from now Winker may be starting and Hamilton, Schebler, or Duvall will be on the bench. And Riggleman will say something like “well, so-and-so hasn’t been hitting very well, so we thought it was probably time to shake things up a little.”

    • Jack

      Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. To give the Front Office some credit for THINKING is ludicrous. They want to get these 3 going so they can trade them for great prospects in 2 months. Like nobody has a computer and knows very little about analytics except the Reds. Dumbest organization in baseball.

    • redsfan06

      Thanks for posting the link. Davis was incredible before the injuries set in.

  34. Remdog

    Chad, thank you for this site. I’ve come here every single day since 2005, and I’ve learned SO much through all of the intelligent baseball conversation we all bring to this platform. You have done a great service here. Please don’t despair and let these trying times ruin your Reds passion. ALWAYS persevere. We Redleg fans are all brothers in arms. I plead you to always carry that torch. You have done it better than anyone I’ve ever known, good sir. My sincere gratitude to you and all of the other devoted writers and commenters. I bleed Red with you all.

    • Chad Dotson

      We’ve been doing it this long…can’t stop now. Even if it’s frustrating.

      • lwblogger2

        That’s good Chad because even if I throw in the towel on the Reds, I have no plans to throw in the towel on reading and contributing to RLN.

    • Shchi Cossack

      And along those same lines, in case anyone misconstrued my earlier post, the Old Cossack is not going anywhere, I just won’t be watching the games this season unless Mrs. Cossack issues an executive pardon.

      The details of the ‘story’ were actual events as they transpired and I can understand Mrs. Cossack’s point, but you can just click off or erase passion, even if it’s misplaced and excessive.

      • Matt WI

        Give us Mrs. Cossack’s contact information. Redleg Nation would like to have a nice “chat” about the ban. 🙂

      • Shchi Cossack

        You are a BRAVE man Matt…much braver than the Old Cossack. Mrs. Cossack is a beautiful, caring, delightful amazon, but an amazon none the less!

      • Matt WI

        That’s hilarious. That’s why I said the Nation will need to speak to her! I’m thinking maybe one of Steve Mancuso’s excellent persuasive pieces.