Scooter Gennett is now hitting .340/.376/.558 and leads the Reds with 10 home runs. His wOBA is .399; his wRC+ is 154. We’re a third of the way into the season, and Scooter shows no signs of regressing.

Quite the contrary: Gennett has been worth 2.1 WAR already this season; he was worth 2.4 wins in 2017. So….

You probably know my feelings on this topic — and we’ll be discussing this topic in-depth over the coming days — but I’m sure this is a question being asked inside the Reds front office. The club has a big decision to make.

What should they do?

It’s a Monday-morning discussion thread…give us your thoughts!

Blame Chad for creating this mess.

Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, “The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds” is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad’s musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine.

You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Join the conversation! 107 Comments

  1. Love Scooter. The Reds won’t be competitive again until he’s expensive and 30. Also, second base is the strongest position in the organization aside from first base. If a market ever opens up for Scooter, it’s time to deal. But I’m worried that Sentimental Bob wants to keep his latest bobblehead.

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  2. I voted no on the Twitter poll, but the more I think about it I would definitely consider signing him to a contract for about 2 years. Scooter gives the Reds their short-term answer at 2B, while Senzel moves over to SS. Then you could move Peraza to CF and IF backup. Hamilton is then either traded or kept as utility/defensive late game help. Scooter’s contract would run out around the time somebody like Jeter Downs is ready.

    With this, the Reds would essentially be replacing Hamilton in the lineup with Nick Senzel. 2B and SS are suddenly accounted for, at least until a SS candidate rises from the system or is acquired. CF defense would drop a lot, but I felt Peraza is young enough to still see if his hitting could improve – you could give up on Peraza and keep Hamilton in CF. Besides, its not impossible to think that Peraza could learn CF, although probably not as well as Hamilton. I don’t think Hamilton was younger than Peraza is now when he switched from SS to CF. Also, Peraza has shown good fielding skills at SS.

    Just an idea, but I could get behind signing Scooter to a short-term extension (about 2 yrs) if he would take it. And that is a big “if” in this case. Peraza does complicate things a little, but I would definitely consider Senzel playing SS for the first years of his career.

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    • Nice idea except I just can’t imagine Scooter or his agent agreeing to only a 2 year contract. The best I could imagine is looking for 5 and settling for 4 with an option year.

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      • My thoughts as well. 4yrs/$50-million with a 5th year team option at $12.5-million ($4-million buyout)… If that or something very close to that doesn’t get it done, then I’d say they need to trade him.

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        • I’d have to think 4/50 isn’t going to be close. I’d guess they’ll want more like 4/$75 or more. If that sounds crazy, it isn’t. He’s looking like a top 3 hitting 2B in all of baseball. Getting near 20 million a year is more likely the expectation especially given this is likely the ONLY big contract he’ll sign assuming some roll off as he enters his 30s.

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          • I don’t see him going that high as a defensively challenged 2B but you might be right. If you get two or more teams that want him badly enough, he could perhaps get that in free-agency. As an extension though, I don’t think the Reds should go anywhere near there. If 4yrs/$50-million won’t get it done as an extension, the Reds would have to move him.

    • Also Senzel has been playing 2B if I’m correct, and while he did play SS in spring training, even if this is the route the Reds choose to take, he could end up being a defensive liability.

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      • Yes, the Reds seem to have seen all they need to in order to deem that Senzel, although he can play SS, probably doesn’t have enough defensively to be an every day MLB SS.

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      • I think we need to move senzel to an outfield spot like the cubs did with kris Bryant at first, sign scooter to a long term deal and fix our outfield, your outfielders are supposed to be higher than 6,7, and 9 in your batting lineup

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    • I don’t think Peraza is good enough to warrant trying to find another position for him to play other than what he is used to playing. I would move hamilton to back up and try to include peraza in a packaged deal with some other players to get (who knows what). If Scooter gets signed what do you do with Blandino? Backup IF? If Scooter isn’t signed as is traded you could potentially have a Blandino/Senzel middle IF.

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    • How could Scooter Rolen vote no?! What’s the world coming to when you vote against your internet handle’s namesake?

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  3. He has value as a power lefty bat. If the reds can get an impact AA+ starter who projects as a mid rotation MLB starter by sometime in 2019- trade him.

    Some playoff caliber teams( Arizona) need offense desperately at 2b. He would be a nice addition to an AL team who wants to add some offense as well.

    Is Nick Senzel healthy and coming back soon? That should be answered by the trade deadline in late July.

    Would the Reds change Senzel’s position again?

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    • I don’t trade him for that little. I am looking for a top prospect (ACE upside, not mid-rotation). He should command quite a bit given his recent run and just now in prime. Don’t undersell for a innings eater, if that’s all we try to get them overpay him to an extension and hope he keeps producing.

      Same for Iglesias if we trade him, looking for another teams TOP prospect or top two and another in the top 6.

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  4. When Senzel gets called up later this summer and takes over second base, the Reds will need to find a place for Gennett to play. With the way he has hit last season and this year, he needs to be in the lineup almost every day. Assuming Peraza/Blandino remain at SS and Suarez at 3B, it would make sense to make Gennett the everyday LF.

    In my opinion, this is something the Reds should do now. Put Gennett in LF, Blandino at 2B, and let Duvall be a bench player. Let Duvall start once or twice a week and Gennett could play 2B on those days.

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    • This is such a good idea I had to 2nd it. I’ve been on record saying Scooter, a hitter who clobbers right handed pitching, shouldn’t be traded, and I still think that. BUT if we can establish higher market value for him by developing his versatility in the OF and always make room for the youngsters then all the better.

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    • Are you putting Winker on the bench in this scenario?

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      • Gennett LF, Schebler CF, Winker RF…The outfield defense is not ideal, but offense would be better than having Hamilton and Duvall in the lineup.

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        • That not just not ideal, but might set some kind of defensive futility record. It is hard to imagine a contending team with Scooter and Winker in the corner spots. By 2019 (hopefully) and 2020 latest, better is needed, and Winker and Scooter in the corners is not going to get it done without a GG in CF. Scooter in LF can only maybe work if he signs cheap and for 3-4 years; I don’t know why he would do that.

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        • As of now, the only guy in that proposed outfield who is hitting well is Scooter. I like Schebler–I like all of the Reds–but he is neither a good hitter nor a major league centerfielder.

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          • I kind of hope Schebler and Duvall hit a nice little hot streak and the Reds (too late, but finally) trade them for a higher upside AA or A+ ball player or two.

    • Where does Schebler fit into that if Winker is playing RF? If Schebler is playing RF then it’s a lot harder to get Winker at bats since Scooter is playing so well!

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  5. It really depends on what the contract would have to look like. Last years free agent market could cause him to sign for less than we think, but he is already making $6 million this year and is looking at a nice raise in arbitration with the numbers he is putting up. The Reds may not be able to replace the bat, but there are cheap alternatives that could take over at 2B with Senzel and Herrera. On the other hand both of those guys have question marks. Senzel is dealing with vertigo for the second time and Hererra hasn’t been able to stay on the field the last couple of years.

    The Reds real need is starting pitching and will most likely have to spend money via free agency to fix that. If Stephenson, Reed, and Finnegan all started pitching to their potential signing Scooter to an extension would make much more sense.

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    • It is just difficult to find a scenario that makes sense. Scooter would have to take fewer years and not maximize the per year value. It seems doubtful he would do that.

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  6. If it means not being able to sign top-echelon FA players like Manny Machado b/c of a low payroll output then the team should not sign Scooter to a long-term. See if there’s a sucker, er a contending team desperate enough for his offense to trade for a good prospect.

    But I have to say that I am not a fan of complete rebuild mode like the Reds are in (90% rebuild, except for Votto + Bailey). Even a recent ESPN piece on the state of rebuilding teams is skeptical of the Reds’ future: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/23573718/state-baseball-rebuilding-teams-already-contending-uncertain-futures

    Sign Scooter if the team is willing to accelerate the rebuild by signing a top FA in the offseason.

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    • I think there is a slightly above 0% chance of signing Machado with or without Scooter on the payroll.

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      • I agree. My point overall is about the seriousness of the club to go after top-tier FAs, whether MM or not, and when will they do it. The timing of that affects what to do with Scooter, I believe. If it will be another 2+ years before they plan to sign a top FA or trade for a top player to elevate the ballclub to contender status (like Houston + Cubs have done), then it doesn’t make sense to sign Scooter to a long-term contract.

        I just hope that the Reds do not become a feeder team like the A’s.

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  7. I have been on the “trade high” bandwagon for Scooter, but I’m stepping off. If Senzel put up the numbers that Scooter has put up, we would be ecstatic. So why trade a bird in the hand who is only 28 and probably has several good-and-maybe-great seasons ahead of him?

    The extension needs to be team-friendly–we don’t want to give Scooter a lot more per year than we gave Eugenio. And if someone offers a stud for Scooter, we should still listen. But overall, I think the pros of keeping Scooter outweigh the cons. It seems foolish to trade a guy who puts up 2.1 WAR of offense in two months’ time.

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    • He shouldn’t get more per year than Suarez. He is better defender, two years younger and in the same area as a batter

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      • I would think about the same would be fair.
        Scooter has proved himself.
        We do not know that Nick is a full time starter in the majors yet.
        With medical condition is the biggest concern.

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        • Scooter is a lot less valuable than Suarez. It is not even close. Suarez is a much better fielder, a little better hitter (similar power/production, but better OBP), and even a little better on the base path. Add in that he is younger so the Reds will have more peak years of his production, and you have a big difference in value.

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          • One also needs to understand that Suarez is further from free-agency and gave up some $$ for financial security. Scooter can explore free-agency after next season and will probably get somewhere close to $10-million in 2019 through arb.

          • None of these explanations matter. It’s like you’re all trying to convince yourselves Scooter will sign a very cheap exension. He won’t.

            Scooter is hitting for a better average than Suarez. Scooter is the better hitter, if only slightly. I can’t see him accepting anything less than a 5 year/$80 million extension. Why not just wait for FA and cash in. A top 3 hitting 2B will get a BIG contract. No way he gets less than $15/year and maybe closer to $20/year assuming he doesn’t slump dramatically in second half or next year.

            As for me, I’d be more inclined to trade him for another teams #1 prospect and another top 8 player (at the very least). None of this silly “MLB ready” low-upside fillers that Jocketty asked for the past few years.

  8. It’s hard to bet on a second baseman much past age 30. Even in some of the hall of famers, there are historical drop offs of production in their early 30s.

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    • I would be interested in looking at subset analysis on this question: I.e. LH hitting 2B who derive the majority of their value from mashing right handers. Does this specific type of player fade as fast as the overall cohort?

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  9. No. The FO should be resolute in trading players when their value is high for players that will be on the next winning ball club. See the Atlanta Braves modus operandi. Mr. Gennett’s services should be in demand by contenders. A few: Dodgers, Mariners, Nats have holes at 2B that need to be filled. The Red’s FO needs to show a pulse!

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    • It entirely depends on what the offer(s) are. If they are trying to send Jose Perazas/Adam Duvalls/Dilson Herreras/Caleb Cothams, then absolutely not. If it is a return like Luis Castillo/Eugenio Suarez, then go ahead. The Reds absolutely cannot afford to miss on any more major trades.

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      • You avoid a mediocre return of players in a deal when your FO makes a timely trade. They trade the player’s when their value is high.

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      • It’s too early to call Herrera a miss. He’s hitting well and playing second, and there’s a scenario where he becomes a valuable starter for the Reds. Duvall is having a miserable year, but his two previous seasons were pretty good for a throw-in.

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      • True, and if I see any more “Scooter won’t return much” to go with “Scooter isn’t as good as Suarez, so he’ll take a cheaper extension” I will pull my hair out.

        You don’t trade him short of another teams top 1 or 2 prospect. That is the starting point and it is VERY realistic.

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    • I am with Doofus. I like Scooter. It’s nice seeing a real hitter to put near Votto. That said, if you extend him and he accepts, it’s going to be $15mil/season at minimum. Those thinking he’ll cheap out are wrong. Suarez had more arbitration years ahead of him so he extended at a palatable rate, but Scooter won’t. He is putting up top 3 2B offensive numbers, and more than one team will be offering 5 years and 80 or 90 million when he hits FA…maybe even more.

      So, would I rather trade or extend? Trade makes more sense, provided our knuckleheaded FO doesn’t fall back into the awful “MLB ready” mind set and instead goes with the very wise and more traditional “all-star upside” talent.

      Scooter should get a nice return, we’re talking another teams top 1 or 2 prospect and another prospect inside their top 8. We see OTHER teams get this kind of return, yet year after year we see this board (and our RLN writers as well) sell our talent WAY short.

      What team with available payroll would NOT want a great hitting 2B in their every day lineup? Not many, save maybe Houston and Yankees (Torres lighting it up, could have had him for Chapman, but we got junk and undersold while Yankees sold at market value).

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  10. I would wait as long as possible to get as big a sample size of at bats as possible. I would give NL Pitchers every opportunity to figure Scooter Gennett out. If it comes to pass that this offensive “coming of age” is legitimate, then yes. At the last minute of team control I would sign him to an extension. Because of Gennett’s defensive metrics, he’s never going to get out of the range of a mid market club that wants him. The Reds would be sacrificing some defense, but if Scooter Gennett really is THIS guy offensively, and by observing his approach at the plate, his willingness to take what the pitcher gives him, and his ability to hit not only pitches in the strike zone, but pitches well out of the strike zone, and he actually is THIS guy, then yes. If it means we have to move Suarez to short to make room for Senzel at 3rd, so be it. Take a look around MLB. It’s about getting the ball in the air and out of the yard. Fewer ground balls than ever are being hit. You don’t want to have a defensive hack at SS, but Suarez playing short at a league average level of defensive prowess, coupled with well above average offensive prowess (especially for that position), would have the Reds sitting pretty at SS for years to come.

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    • IF you wait and he keeps hitting, that extension gets more and more expensive. We’re talking 15/year in all likely hood now.

      If you wait and he fades, his trade value plummets and you get one decent prospect instead of a stud prospect and maybe more (Reds specialize in getting less by waiting for value to sink).

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  11. Tough decision. I’m not sure the Red’s front office would get much for Scooter unless an A.L. club needed a DH and would give up a starting pitcher. Barnhart, Votto, Gennett, Suarez and Schebler give the Reds a pretty good middle offense. And Scooter is a positive in the clubhouse. In the meantime, I’d like to see if he could handle LF.

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    • If they can’t get much for Scooter they need to fire themselves. A top 3 hitting 2B should easily pry loose a top 2 prospect from another team. I am skeptical of the Reds FO underselling for “MLB ready” AAAA players, but at some point we have to get a GM that is a tough negotiator. Maybe Krall is?

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  12. Only if he moves to LF and we can the Duvall experiment (given it really looks ragged this year). Even then, 3 years max with an option which, as noted in another response, he’s not likely to take.

    Bottom line … no.

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    • Yeah. That’s not bad. I really, really, wish switching positions was easy. Part of me wants to put Scooter in LF, Suarez in RF, and boom, you have functional corner OF’s. Senzel to 3rd, Blandino to 2nd.

      I’m not serious about that, just being activated by a post in the game recap thread that showed how poor the Reds OF has been for several years in a row.

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      • I hear you. And you can hide a weaker player in LF (we’ve done that for a long time in the past). I have to believe Scooter would give it his best, but you need to consider he hasn’t played on the grass for a very long time. And the move is far from easy as you note, Matt.

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      • Suarez is great in the dirt. Why would you move him?

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        • Oh, I wouldn’t at all, I get how valuable he is at 3rd. He just has one of the only bats that meets criteria of a real OF.

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          • Outfielders have to do more than hit, and it’s quite possible/likely that the Reds will have several outfielders currently in the minors who are ready to play next year or the year after. They could use more hitting, for sure, but it’s not their biggest problem this year or last. They need more of everything: Pitching, hitting and defense.

  13. This depends on so many things. It depends on the trade market (which should be option 1), it depends on how much and how long Scooter is looking to sign for, etc.

    I was jokingly telling someone that I wish Scooter was awful, it would give the Reds a much more clear path on what to do with him and not give them a chance to screw it up.

    That being said, I’ll continue to enjoy watching Scooter play well because it helps the Reds win.

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    • Finally, sanity. I only trade Scooter if it gets back an ACE upside pitching prospect or an all-star upside hitting prospect (ie, top 2 or 3 prospect in another organization).

      Secondly, no way he extends for what Suarez did. Suarez had some arb years bought out, Scooter is going to want much more based on the fact he can get much more very soon in FA. I don’t see anything less than 15/year and more likely closer to 18-20/year if less than a 5 year extension.

      I am going to guess he’d want 4yr/$70mil or 5yr/$85 mil. Is that too pricey for a Reds team with a big Votto salary as well? If he signed cheaper than that, then I would pounce, but it won’t happen. Dreams of 4yr/50 million are fantasy-land dreams. None of us would sign for so little knowing FA is fast approaching and we’re hitting like one of the best at our position and this is likely our only big contract since we’re nearing 30.

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      • If he is looking for$20 million a year I would trade him immediately. I don’t see him getting anywhere near that

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  14. Nope. And here’s the other important part… please, please, don’t sit on your hands waiting to pull the trigger on a trade. Get somebody’s upper level OF prospect, or try to find another Castillo out there. Willy Mo for Bronson? You get the idea.

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    • +5000

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    • Yes, waiting and indecision are bad, and underselling is WORSE. They way undersold Chapman (too hasty), while Yankees now have a 20 year old stud SS/2B taking MLB by storm (we could have had Torres if we had a GM/owner tandem as wise as the Yankees have been the past few years.

      They waited too long in trading all-time-high value Frazier. Had they traded him the week after the all-star game when he still had a .290 average and won the HR derby, could have easily gotten a #1 prospect from another team…instead we got spare parts.

      Don’t wait and do NOT undersell. Many on this board are doing that, already seeing “they can’t get much for Scooter”. Really? Why not? If that’s the case then we can’t get much for anyone that isn’t the best at their position (silliness).

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  15. We need 3 Outfielders, shortstop, 2 starting Pitchers and now a second baseman. Yeah see you in 2021.

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  16. Theres a real market devoloping for Scooter right now and he’s mashing at the perfect time…that, coupled with the facts that the rebuild has been a disaster and the reds wont be good for at least 3 more years means you trade him…if he continues this for another month+ he and raisel will bring back an exceptional haul of ready/near ready prospects from a team like the dodgers

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    • There is no exceptional haul for him even at these levels of OPS. You don’t get premium talent for a player who is as defensively challenged as Scooter is. He’s a super sub for an NL team, a DH who can give you starts at multiple positions for an AL team, or our starting second baseman. All the Reds would be accomplishing by trading him is getting a mid level prospect, maybe a bullpen arm….that’s it. The Reds would essentially be just getting rid of him because they feel better with a low OBA low Slugging % Peraza at SS, Senzel at Second and leaving Saurez at 3rd. The Reds can’t even handle it when a 900 OPS player, born right here, lands in their lap off the waiver wire. If they trade him it will be just another bad move by a joke of a franchise.

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      • I think he has a lot more value than that. He’s probably a 3.5 to 4 WAR players this year. I don’t like using WAR but it’s a good place to start. Scooter’s defense, after a horrible start to the season has gotten better. He was bad last year at 2B but to put it bluntly, a guy who hits like he does that can play 2B AT ALL, has value. He also is under team control for 2019. I think he could easily bring back a solid MLB player/pitcher (about average). If the Reds wanted a prospect, I think he could get a Top 100 prospect in, perhaps even a Top 50 guy.

        If you’re right and all he can return is a mid-level prospect an/or a bullpen arm, then the Reds should do all they can to extend him to a smaller contract than the one I proposed as a response to someone earlier in the thread. Failing that, they should just go to arb with him next year and then let him walk.

        I think he has more value than you do though.

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  17. This is such an “it depends” question. It depends on the duration and terms of the contract, especially remembering that as Steve Mancuso always says, teams trade contracts as much as players. It depends on the Reds expectations for the health of Senzel and Herrera. It depends on what the Reds could get in return by trade. It depends on plans for SS in the near and long terms. It depends.

    I have said many times that the purpose of acquiring and developing good players is to have good players, not to acquire more players to develop. But the Reds have serious depth at 2B (Gennett, Senzel, Herrera, Long and Blandino) and serious needs at several other positions, notably OF, SS and starting pitcher. The Reds should be looking to move probably two of those five players to upgrade weaknesses. If it were up to me, Gennett would be one of those two BUT only if the return was really high. Otherwise he’s a very good player right now. Give me nine of those and I’ll win a lot of games.

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    • I used to wonder how many games the Reds would win if Adam Dunn played all of the positions (except pitcher, of course). I concluded that the comic relief would possibly outweigh the losing for a short while. And now you’ve proposed a similar scenario for Scooter.

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  18. I say trade him while value is high. Reds cannot afford to be sentimental. Trade Votto if someone gives you the moon. In football,the Cowboys built a pretty good run in the NFL because of the ridiculous haul they got from Minnesota for Herschel Walker. No one should be off the trading block, if you get enough. And yes I realize Joey has a no trade clause. And No I really don’t want to trade him, just saying. If Scooter signed a team friendly 2 year contract then yes they should consider it, but I don’t believe he or his agent is that stupid.

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  19. Someone can check my quick math, but I’ve got Scooter at .290/.330/.475 if his BABIP returns to what it was last year (which was still high for him and higher than league average), but all other stats stay consistent with what he has done this year (so not regressing him back to pre-waiver Scooter numbers). That’s good, but not eye-popping. And when paired with worse than average speed/baserunning and lousy defense, and the value looks like a decent player, but not great. And not for long, as he is at peak age now.

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  20. Some of the posts that advocate for keeping Scooter want him in LF. That displaces Jesse Winker, which seems like a really bad idea.

    Offensively, to this point in his career, Winker’s lowest full season WRC+ has been 127 (in AAA). At the same point in his career, Scooter’s highest full season WRC+ was 124 (in low A). While Scooter has developed very well at the plate and established himself, Winker has more upside as an offensive player.

    Defensively, Scooter is slower with no history of outfield play, so the expectation can only be that he somehow learns the position well enough to become as ‘good’ as Winker.

    Putting Scooter in left in place of Winker costs a lot more, has less upside, and trades production today on a last-place rebuilding team for potential production on a future team that we sure hope can become a contender. While an argument can be made to sign Scooter longer term, doing it in a way that blocks Jesse would be a bad idea.

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    • I’m all for trading Scooter but Winker hasnt showed us thst he will be as good as advertised. If he is still this bad defensively and has less power than Peraza in 2021, then he won’t be the solution in the outfield.

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      • Your wrong on Winker. He needs the same 2000 at bat tryout the Reds forced on us with Drew Stubb’s and Billy Hamilton. What you’ll get after 2000 at bats from Winker is a .400 OBA, .500 Slugging %. He’s going to nature into a 40 double, 25 to 30 HR guy if the Reds are as patient with him as they were with Stubbs and Hamilton. If they give up on him, he will be the best Edwin Encarnacion and be knocking on the door of the Hall of Fame, just like Encarnacion is right now.

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        • He has hit at all levels but he has started at all levels.This platoon stuff needs to stop at least with him.Put him in left field and forget about him.

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        • I like Winker but don’t see a guy who’s ever going to slug .500. He just doesn’t have that kind of power. If he can hit close to .300, then I see a guy with that .400 OBP or so and a .420-.480 SLG. With improved defense, that guy has pretty good value. I don’t see 25-30 HR and I don’t see 40 doubles. I think if it goes well for Winker and the Reds he’s a guy who can hit you 30+ doubles and probably will land in the 13-20 HR range regularly.

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  21. While it depends on what trade offers are actually present and the terms of an extension that Scooter might agree to, my preference is to trade Scooter for value. A couple of possibilities:

    – Indians 2B Jason Kipnis is on a long-term deal and floundering. Scooter to the Indians for RHPs Triston McKenzie and Shane Beiber, 2B Kipnis and the Indians Competitive Balance Pick (#41). The Reds would pick up the difference in Kipnis 2018 contract and Indians pay the majority of the 2019 contract. Preferred option as Indian prospects are more advanced and fill the starting pitcher need.

    – Scooter and Duvall to the Mariners for RHPs Sam Carlson, Wyatt Mills, Seth Elledge, SS Querecuto, and OF Julio Rodriguez. Provides value, but more long-term, higher risk.

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  22. Scooter presents a real conundrum. I feel like I know< /i> several things and wish I knew several more about the situation.

    I know I don’t want him anywhere near 2B as anything other than a base runner on a long term basis. I also know that while I want the Reds to learn from recent history, I don’t want them to be a slave to it and miss an opportunity which might be there. Scooter is under control for next season, although he will be expensive. Thus the Reds could listen on him at the deadline and do nothing if they don’t get an offer which knocks them over then take the offseason to make their final decision.

    I also feel that the Reds OF situation isn’t nearly as close to be settled over the next several years as it appeared to be going into this season. Schebler is only 5 months younger than Scooter; and his production is iffy. However he would be a lot cheaper than Scooter. Duvall looks spent. Winker so far is at best a 1 tool (OBP) player. His defensive metrics are among the worst in MLB. He doesn’t run the bases particularly well; and, his power has been next to nonexistent. Thus if Scooter could play a corner OF spot, just maybe it isn’t crazy to sign him. However, no more than 4 years starting with 2019; and the money has to be as right for the team as for him.

    Here is as close as I am to having a set opinion right now. Basically, use the time they have to good advantage and consider all the options.

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    • Wouldn’t Scooter be as bad or worse in the field and on the basepath as Jesse? And given that Jesse will probably develop a lot in the next couple years, it feels like you are undervaluing him a bit here. Yes, tough to get a clear read, but I’m hoping a contender needs Scooter and helps replenish the Reds cupboard – and that Winker becomes as good (or better, maybe) than Scooter would be in LF. The Reds just flat out need more talent, so a trade that brings back some talent while freeing up $ for acquiring more talent seems much smarter than keeping him.

      Reply
      • Can’t answer how Scooter would be as an OF unless and until we see him play there. However, we’ve seen him run a couple of pretty good routes on balls along the foul line in the last couple of weeks. He showed up both Schebler and Winker and on those 2 plays.
        Gennett is a better base runner now that Winker. Again can’t say that will still be the case when Gennett is 32 and Winker is 29 or thereabouts (ages at end of 2022 season)..

        In general I believe it is a poor choice to think a guy is going to somehow at the MLB level, the hardest level there is, somehow become something he hasn’t shown an inkling of being prior to the time got there. How long now have Reds fans been waiting for BHam to become more than a single tool (speed) guy? Actually this is why folks have trouble believing what Scooter is doing is “real”.

        As was pointed out by others in this thread, at some point, a team has to quit swapping quality for quantity in hopes it eventually make them better. All I am saying is take the time, Expose Scooter to the OF, see what happens, and make an informed decision when the time comes, not one based on preconceived notions and hopes of what somebody else may become.

        Reply
    • I don’t want any of the 4 near that outfield in 2021. Scooter has flaws but a lot less than the 4 manning the outfield now. Schebler is almost 28 and is no more than a 4th outfielder. Duvall is turning out to be the guy San Fran thought he was. Billy is terrible. Winker is flawed in so many ways. All he has is OBP. Maybe this is the reason the Reds never wanted him up here early because they knew all these flaws. Love Scooter but this team isn’t good for a couple more years. Especially in this division. They have a lot of holes.

      Reply
      • But you can’t get good if you always keep trying to reshuffle the deck. Comes a time to make a stand. Looking at the talent in A+ (likely arrival at MLB ~2021), the time to start standing is now to have a base to plug these guys into in 2020-22

        Reply
  23. With the pitching looking to be 3 years away, the Reds are in a tough position. If they sign Scooter to a multi-year contract, he will probably be in decline by the time the pitching comes around.

    That being said, I would explore contract talks with him. The mid-tier free agents didn’t fare well last off season. They might be able to get some team friendly terms like they were able to do with Suarez.

    The Reds need an injection of talent. If they know where they are with Scooter and it’s a reasonable extension in years and money, they could see what the market is for someone else. They might have to give up a good prospect like Senzel to get good pitching prospects. Good prospects could move the pitching timetable up a year.

    Scooter and a couple of pitchers would put the team ahead of where they would be with Senzel and a B prospect.

    Reply
    • It’s unlikely that Scooter and a couple of pitching prospects put them ahead of where they’d be with Senzel by the time they’re competitive. The already have pitching prospects, for one thing, and Senzel is a younger and more complete player than Scooter. I’m dubious about what sort of pitching prospects they’d get for Senzel–a prospect himself–in any case.

      Reply
  24. The Reds should already be discussing both extension with Scooter and trade possibilities with other teams. Only then will they be able to compare possible contract size and potential trade return. I’m at the point that a trade should include a top 20 prospect, which I don’t think would happen. Scooter has made decent money, but nothing huge yet. A solid offer now, 1.5 years before free agency, that eliminates the risk that injury or performance decline hurts his value, might be enticing to Scooter. Suarez signed for less than we thought it would take, I suspect Scooter would too. No way he gets $15M/yr from anyone. I’ll predict he signs a 4 year contract with Reds for about ~$35M. The Reds will find a way to play him, at 2B or LF or DH or wherever. I compare this a bit to the Cubs signing Zobrist.. 4yr/$56M, when they already had 3 starting outfielders. Scooter’s WAR value is nowhere near the levels Zobrist was providing, so his contract won’t be as high.

    Reply
  25. It seems like they could get top-end AAA talent for him. A near-MLB ready pitching prospect or two would be nice and would fit in well with what I still see as an improved 2019-2020 team.

    Reply
  26. If the Reds looked like they would be contending in the next couple of years, you could make a stronger case to keep him, but that does not appear to be the case.

    Starting pitching continues to be unresolved without much optimism. If he can get a good AA or AAA SP prospect, do it and get the pitching situation figured out.

    If possible, package him with one of the pitchers not likely to be in long-range plans, or Duvall or Hamilton, and get a lower-ranked positional prospect as well.

    Reply
  27. Could we get a top-20 prospect for him? Doubt it. Anyone whose ceiling is higher than Scooter’s present? Doubt it. Would he sign a 4year deal less than $40M? I think so. I might be wrong, but I think that would be enough. I predict reds resign for 4yr/$35M. Scooter gets financial windfall without worrying about injury/performance decline killing his chance. Reds get solid player good enough that he fits somewhere.

    Reply
  28. It appears many feel Suarez is far more talented, so let’s trade him. If he has a higher upside then it’s a better chance to get even more prospects who 3-5 years from now might be major league talent. A package of him and say Iglasius could probably bring 3-4 single A future stars…

    Reply
  29. You think we are getting that for Gennett and Duval? Why is it that Reds always vastly overvalue our guys?

    Reply
  30. I also wonder what impact Joey Votto has on what the Reds do with Gennett. His comments of late have been very clear that it’s time to win now. Trading a top 3 offensive player would be a tough sell to Votto unless a high impact SP for 2019 came back in return.

    Reply
    • How many high impact major league quality starting pitchers get traded and the few who have been moved costs the receiving team what?

      Why don’t we leave Scooter at second, move Nick to either RF or LF and let him play out there for the rest of this season in AAA.

      Reply
      • Yep…probably only a handful of high impact AA/AAA pitchers now who could be mid rotation starters at some point in 2019 that would be a match for the Reds with a contender.( If there’s a 22 yo Gio Gonzalez dominating in AA right now…..that’s the target.) Scooter is a popular player and very productive hitter. I’d say chances are he stays.

        Reply
  31. I like the idea (posted by someone above) of waiting until close to the deadline to see two more months of Scooter producing at this level before signing him to an extension. Also, perhaps we can deal Iglesias before that time–and the return on that deal might reduce the need to trade Scooter.

    Iglesias (once he’s healthy again) and Hamilton or Duvall to the Indians for MLB-ready prospects Greg Allen (CF) and Shane Bieber (SP).

    Reply
    • BTW, I’ve been proposing that trade for about a month now. In the past few days, Allen hit a game-winning HR for the Indians (he was called up as an injury replacement for Zimmer) and Bieber threw a no-hitter in AAA. In other words, their prices may have gone up. Might have to sweeten the deal with a single-A prospect of our own.

      Reply
  32. Give Scooter 3 games a week in LF and 3 a week at 2B for June and July and see how it goes. If he can seize the LF job sign him for 3-4 years. If he can’t hold down LF then put him on the trade block near end of July. Plenty of time to make an assessment.
    But
    Waiting til the end of July gives teams entering a rebuild to flood the trade market.
    KC, Texas, Baltimore and Tampa Bay all have 2B they could trade.
    Reds shod be seriously looking to trade 2 OF before too long for the same reason. On TV today they showed a graph that Schebler had a .290 batting average at Citi Field. Small sample to be sure, but a team in need of an OF.

    Reply
  33. I would love to keep Scooter, he’s playing so well right now! WAR of over 2 already is crazy! I do think that it will to tough to fit him in with Senzel coming soon.

    Reply
  34. I’d sign Scooter if he’d accept 4 yrs. He’d be 32. I’m ok w/that. I think he has proven that he’s not just a flash in the pan. A player that is, & has been producing, at a high level is a keeper. We have to start keeping productive players. I agree the Reds have a few good prospects at 2B. But, right now they have a good 2B. in the Majors. Things will work out with the “prospects”. At the very least they could be used to improve the team via trade. Just my opinion.

    Reply
  35. This site keeps referring to 2nd base being the strongest position in the org.Is number of bodies being confused with strength?After Senzel who do we have?Dilson cleared waivers prior to the season.Blandino is a decent filler that would start on about zero major league teams.Jeter Downs is still in low a.Long has been mentioned as a player to convert from 2nd because of his D.with a bat thats not really proved anything other than he is a prospect.
    Yes there are bodies in the minors,but wheres the talent level?Even if one of them really steps up they will never have a career as good as Scooters.
    They should sign him for 3-4 years and end the mystery.They can shuffle Suarez and Senzel for the other 2 IF spots whichever works out better at SS /3rd.Then you have Peraza or Blandino as your utility guy and you are set.
    Im sure there will be lots of dissenters to the idea but I think it will end one problem,then we can work on the more serious problem of finding Starting pitchers who can pitch and OF who are not hitting .200 or below.

    Reply
  36. If you has a CF who could hit .280, hit 20 HRs, and drive in at least 80 runs, would you take him? If he had at least as much speed as Say Scott Schebler with the ability to get to the ball, would you take him with those hitting stats? Remmeber, so pretty got CFs like Andy Van Slyke, Jim Edmonds, did not have blazing speed. But they hit a had good gloves. I am talking about Scooter. His defensive problems have been move arm accuracy than his glove. You do not have to be as precise throwing as you do at 2B.

    A 3 year deal would be fair and I would think you may get him cheaper just because he seems to have the passion to be a Red. How many of these guys show that same passion? Once Senzil gets the call and you have him at second, this team should be much better offensively without having 2 automatic outs in the line up not including the pitcher.

    Reply
    • Do you remember Craig Biggio in CF for Houston? Well, he was much more athletic than Scooter and was a better defensive 2B than Scooter. You know what though? He was a terrible CF. I have serious, serious doubts Scooter Gennet could play CF in MLB.

      Reply
    • I don’t know about 20 hrs and 80 rbis but they already had Brandon Nimmo named in the Jay Bruce trade til it was switched to Dilson Herrera? Nimmo has a .927 ops thru 100-some atbats. Of course WInker did that last year as well but Nimmo is athletic enough to play CF!

      The offense might look pretty tough with Nimmo in CF and Suarez/Senzel at SS!

      Reply
  37. 2nd week in May Scooter gets Player of the Week. May be on track to Player of the Month.

    And I still say the FO needs to work out a trade before his value drops. As mentioned on this thread, he’s not in any kind of “elite” class, especially as a defender. No OF track record to use as a benchmark. And I do love me some Scooter … but reality is what it is.

    Oh, the Facebook fanboys are all whining about how the Reds need to extend him but they’ll trade for a bag of peanuts. Got to love that we have far better discussions here, even when we don’t agree.

    Reply
  38. If the Reds approach this like a business decision, then there isn’t much of a question. It’s all about value. Does a contender offer a deal this year that is valued higher than what you can get from signing Scooter now to any deal no matter the duration? Is the demand from Scooter a deal that is so long that it ties up a lot of money in a player who is about as good as he’ll ever be right now so that the team leaving the Reds limited options when they need to change strategy/direction a la Homer Bailey’s and Joey Votto’s contract?

    Reply
  39. Scooter will likely never have a higher trade value than he has, right now. Hopefully, he can continue to hit for two more months. At the deadline, trade him to a contender, preferably to the AL, where he could bring more value as a pinch hitter, for the best prospect you can get, regardless of position. (Best Player Available.) Due to the team’s terrible start, Joey Votto has expressed some displeasure with the direction the team seems to be taking. It’s beginning to look like the Reds may not be competitive, again, until his career is near the end. Maybe, he’ll be more willing to waive his no trade clause for a chance to play for a winner. Trade him to the Red Sox and he can hit line drives off the Green Monster until he’s fifty and may get a chance at a ring or two. Again, get AA and AAA prospects who will be major league ready in the next year or two. Last, I would trade Iglesias to the highest bidder. You don’t need a closer, if you’re always trailing in the late innings. Right now, they have Gennett, Votto and Iglesias and they’re going to finish last, anyway. They should accelerate the rebuild by a couple of years. I would move Winker to first base, where he doesn’t have to cover much ground. Move Peraza to center field. Billy Hamilton should never pick up another bat. He’s a pinch runner and late inning defensive replacement. Then, bring up Senzel to play second base and play Blangino at short. I think Brandon Dixon looks good and should, at worst, share time in left field with Duvall. They have a five tool center fielder named Trammell and a good looking infielder named Shed Long who will be up, soon. That, plus the players we get in the trades, could put them on the fast track to respectability.

    Reply

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About Chad Dotson

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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