A young pitcher struggled for the second consecutive night as Tyler Mahle gave up a 3-0 lead with a bad fourth inning. The Reds offense was shut down by the Giants bullpen and could not muster a comeback, starting another losing streak.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (14-29) 3 7 0
San Francisco Giants (22-21) 5 11 1
W: Johnson (2-1) L: Mahle (3-5) S: Strickland (9)

FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Reds got on the board first with some help from the Giants usually stingy defense. Jesse Winker hit a two-out grounder to second base which was bobbled, allowing Winker to reach. Eugenio Suarez took advantage and launched a bomb to the left field seats to give the Reds a 2-0 lead.

Billy Hamilton came through in the fourth with an RBI-single to score Tony Cruz and increase the lead to 3-0. Hamilton was then picked up trying to steal second to end the inning.

Tyler Mahle allowed baserunners in both the first and second innings but was able to work his way out without any damage. He did however, run his pitch count up pretty high, throwing 42 pitches in the first two frames. He settled in a bit in the third with a 1-2-3 inning.

The fourth inning was when the real trouble started for Mahle, who allowed a leadoff dinger to Brandon Belt which made its way to McCovey Cove. After back to back singles to get runners to first and second, Jackson drove a ball to right field that was hit just hard to enough to have the lead runner hold at third, though he took quite a long turn and was almost thrown out trying to get back to the bag.

With bases loaded and no outs, Mahle got a huge strikeout which forced Bruce Bochy’s hand and drove Ty Blach from the game so that Pablo Sandoval could pinch hit. That proved to be the right call as Pablo drilled a ground ball right past Suarez into left to plate two runners and tie the game at 3-3. Mahle’s night was done. Not his strongest outing by any means, but there will be nights like this for young pitchers. He remains only 23 years old.

Amir Garrett came on in relief and allowed another run to score after a bases loaded grounder from McCutcheon as the Reds just missed turning two to end the inning . That would be all the damage in the fourth, but all it still gave the Giants the lead, 4-3.

Garrett had another strong outing and this time was able to get some extended time, hopefully lengthening out for another audition as a starter, but we wont hold our breath. 2.2 innings, two hits and four strikeouts. He threw 44 pitches.

No more scoring in this one until the Giants got an insurance run off of David Hernandez in the eighth inning.

The Reds were only able to collect two baserunners off of the Giants bullpen and never threatened to tie the game. What started off as a promising 3-0 lead fizzled into another close loss for your Redlegs.

Other Game Notes:

  • Eugenio Suarez walked in the first inning and was advanced by a Scooter Gennett single. Suarez overran second base and rolled his ankle as he was lunging back towards the base. He was checked out and allowed to stay in the game. He showed he was fine by crushing two more baseballs tonight. He walked once as well.
  • Peraza made a nice play in the first to nail McCutcheon on a grounder up the middle and followed that up in the third with a jumping snag to catch a line drive. Chris Welsh said it best that an often overlooked tool is a short memory. Peraza is young and will have bad games/innings like last night. Best he forget about it and keep moving forward.
  • He did, however, go 0-4 as the leadoff hitter.
  • Winker made a nice catch with two outs in the fifth to prevent another run from scoring.
  • Joey Votto pinch hit in the ninth inning, which is certainly a good sign. He struck out to end the game.
  • Winker, Duvall and Schebler combined for an 0-12 night.
  • My power went out right around first pitch so I was playing catch up the entire time once it came back on. It was really nice watching live and skipping ahead 10 seconds between each pitch. It was not nice watching the Reds lose, though.

The Reds will look to avoid the sweep tomorrow in the getaway game at 3:45PM EST. Matt Harvey will take the mound and look to build on his strong first start. Good night from the West Cost and go Redlegs.

50 Responses

  1. Scott Gennett

    I strongly believe that it doesn’t make sense to keep Romano and Mahle in the bigs, send them to AAA until they proof able to go at least 6/7 innings or three times through the line-up on a consistently basis. The rotation could be soon reshuffled with Harvey, DiSclafani, Bailey, Castillo and Garrett, for the time being.

    • RedDawg2012

      I can see your point, but this would require Harvey to continue pitching well (huge question mark), DeSclafani staying healthy after he returns and being effective (even bigger question mark), and Garrett moving from the pen AND being effective/durable as a starter.

      A week ago, most people seemed to be feeling pretty encouraged by Ramano and Mahle. They are young and will struggle at times, but personally I don’t think those guys (especially Mahle) have anything left to prove at the AAA level.

    • Bill

      Homer hasn’t been any better, Harvey hasn’t proved he can give quality starts, Disco is still rehabbing, Garrett is in the pen, and Castillo has also struggled. There isn’t anyone on the staff that can be counted on to pitch seven innings at this time. I don’t think Make Mahle or Ramano we’re ready when called up, but due to circumstances they are here. I’m not sure what they are going to learn in Louisville that can’t be done in Cincinnati.

    • Michael Smith

      You are asking for a unicorn with Ramano and Mahle. Less that 25 guys pitched enough innings to qualify for ERA title yet u want two guys to pitch in the minors until it’s a guarantee they can go 7 every time?

      • lwblogger2

        5.5 IP/GS across the NL last year. Yes, consistently going 7 sounds rather unrealistic in today’s climate of pitch-counts, max-effort deliveries, and 8-man bullpens.

    • VaRedsFan

      Since none of the starters can go 7 innings, they should send them all to the minors???
      Certainly Disco will be able to come back and start throwing complete games after not pitching for 1.5 years

      Instead, let’s let them learn, and gain value experience in the big leagues where they can mature and adjust under the tutelage of MLB coaches.

    • greenmtred

      How many starters anywhere consistently go 6 or 7 innings? I don’t know, but my impression is that bullpens are handling more innings than they used to. Young pitchers are very prone to inconsistency, and Mahle and Romano have both shown the ability to pitch at this level. What they need to work on is getting Major League hitters out when they (the pitchers) are known quantities. Can’t do that at AAA.

    • Matt WI

      While I wish they could do that… the average major league starter has been going 5.1 as of a week or two ago.

    • Norwood Nate

      How does seeing AAA guys three times in the game help them get big league guys out better the third time? They’re proving they have the ability to pitch at this level, they just need to fine tune things and continue developing. They’ll only do that against ML hitters, IMO.

    • CP

      Your expectations are dumb. Johnny Cueto didn’t average 6+ innings until his 4th season in the majors. Homer Bailey didn’t do it until his fifth season. This is a really common thing for pitchers making the leap to the majors. You don’t learn to put away MLB hitters pitching in AAA.

    • lwblogger2

      I agree somewhat but here’s the thing, starting pitchers aren’t really averaging over 6 IP/GS anymore. The average IP/GS for an NL starting pitcher in 2017 was 5.5. Starting pitchers worked 13,366.67 Innings over 2430 starts. Now, this takes into account all SP, so back-of-the-rotation and depth guys are included but this number continues to trend down. It seems these days if you have a guy consistently go 6+, you’ve got a #3 or better starter.

  2. Mason Red

    Can’t wait for the trades that will bring in more awesome pitching prospects….

  3. james garrett

    They will have some stinkers but in my opinion they learn nothing in the minors on how to get big league hitters out.Even if you are good in the minors most all guys struggle when they come up to the majors.Its about adjustments and it takes time.Give them the ball every 5th day and lets see what happens.If it were me I would have Garrett starting and I would have Bob called up and starting as well.Yes that would mean 5 young guys with the rest backing them up in the pen.Keep the bus gassed up to Louisville and lets see where each one of these guys are in September.Then we would know much much more then we know now and may just have a couple of them or maybe more that we can count on next year and beyond.Yes it will be painful but not any more then the last 4 years and if you aren’t competing for a championship then who cares.Somewhere Chuck Shick is saying yep 90 losses or a few more or few less don’t make much difference its still losing.This innings limit stuff and service time stuff and up and down to the minors stuff is just stuff.Let them pitch.Harvey goes today and what does that do for this team?Nothing.Nothing.Nothing.Thanks for allowing me to vent.

    • lwblogger2

      Thanks for the Chuck Shick memory. Found myself disagreeing with him a lot but he was a great Reds’ fan and was always respectful, courteous, and thoughtful in his opinions and arguments. His loss was a loss to all of RLN.

      • lwblogger2

        I think we both misspelled his name. I believe it was “Chuck Schick”

  4. Seat101

    My power went out, also. It was just nine minutes but I missed the homerun.

    If you’re not going to sit Jose Peraza, you have to bat him seventh, eighth, or ninth – Maybe tenth would be best. I didn’t watch the last half of the game so I don’t know how bad his at bats were… But I’m guessing that he starting to swing at that low outside pitch and the outside curveball. And missing.

    Billy Hamilton had a tootblan.

    • Jack

      So you aren’t driving the Peraza bandwagon no more?

      • Seat101

        I’ve said it once and I’ll say it twice and I’ll say it 1 million times JP is the shortstop of the future for the Cincinnati Reds.

        He’s young, and when he’s had bad luck or just a bad stretch he gets worse. I need to be set down and move to the lower part of the order for a while.

        Billy Hamilton was picked off. Well technically, it is a “caught stealing” it is also a tootblan.

      • Indy Red Man

        Oz Albies is young too…..young with 13 HRs. If Peraza drew some walks and had a decent obp then I could get on board pretty easily. Suarez can hit. Scooter can hit. Senzel is going to be a better offensive player then Peraza. I don’t know where Jose fits in? Its not like Scooter is 33 years old.

    • VaRedsFan

      Hamilton was thrown out trying to steal with 2 outs and Peraza batting. It happens. Not a TOOTBLAN

      • lwblogger2

        True, especially since Peraza is much more likely to drive him in from 2B than he is from 1B.

  5. VaRedsFan

    In the 4th, with the game tied and 1 out, Blanco hit a line drive to Peraza. IMO he should have caught it, but it bounced out of his glove. But with Panda on 1st, there was still a possibility to get the force out at 2nd. Nope. Peraza “trotted” after the ball, and by time he realized it, the fleet footed Panda was safe. Totally should have caught the ball in the first place, then didn’t hustle to get the force play

    Next play Cutch grounds to 3rd, and they couldn’t turn the double play in time. Run scores, 4-3 Giants.

    • greenmtred

      Just when we were all so certain that defense is no longer relevant…

      • MrRed

        Hmmm….I hadn’t heard that narrative before. It seems acknowledged in commentary on this site that defense is what keeps BH in the starting lineup and why it may cost Scooter his job.

      • greenmtred

        It’s acknowledged, but usually viewed as the result of defective thinking by the FO. By inference, the frequent proposals to make an outfield of Winker, Schebler (in center) and, perhaps, Gennett advance that narrative. It’s been muted a bit, I agree, because this season has put the damage poor fielding can cause in high relief.

    • Matthew Habel

      Ah, I did miss that. I was jumping ahead after Mahle got pulled and got to bases loaded with the same score so I didn’t bother rewinding to watch how it happened.

  6. VaRedsFan

    Scooter now batting .343 vs. lefties this year.

    • SultanofSwaff

      Scooter’s 2 hits were a testament to the notion that hitting is a skill. His ability to go oppo or pull the ball based on pitch location (not speed) is why his numbers are so good. His bat can find the ball, with Duvall it’s like the ball has to find his bat….if that makes sense.

      I can’t believe how much grief a guy who’s gonna post another 3+ win season gets……especially for the money he’s getting.

      • Ernest

        It is not that difficult to understand when one of the top prospects in baseball plays the same position.
        An awful team like the Reds are just going to make no effort to utilize their assets in the best possible manner?
        If Gennett is clearly a break through 2B, then the Reds should be looking to trade Senzel and Herrera and Long to improve other positions.

      • Shchi Cossack

        That’s 3+ WAR including his atrocious defense during the 1st 6 weeks of the season. After resting his shoulder, his defense appears to have rebounded to it’s normal subpar level rather than an abysmal level. I was a STRONG advocate of a Scooter platoon coming into this season, but every aspect of his performance appears to validate a serious shift in his approach at the plate that counters his severe platoon splits and improves his overall productivity.

        The Reds control Gennett’s contract through the 2019 via arbitration. They do not need to move him in a trade, but for the right trade, Scooter should be available. A year and a half of control for a 3+ WAR player should be desired. The OF and SS should be the positional needs focus going forward. If Scooter remains under contract with the Reds, his departure in 2020 lines up well with the wave of 2B prospects in the pipeline. While Scooter’s contract will see another significant jump next season, even a $10MM contract would be affordable and cost effective.

      • lwblogger2

        Said it a lot better than I could. In other words, that’s a better description of my opinion than I could have given on my opinion.

        That ALMOST sounds like a Yogi-ism.

  7. jessecuster44

    A better 2B turns that DP and the Reds get out of the inning tied. Duvall with another bad game. Hopefully the “streak” stops at 2 with a nice win today.

    • SultanofSwaff

      Um, no. Suarez was late getting it out of his glove and then threw it at Scooter’s ankles. The turn was as quick as could be given the circumstances.

      • VaRedsFan

        Sultan is correct here. Just another small thing in a series of events that allowed the Giants to score

  8. Indy Red Man

    Disappointed with Mahle last night. I know he had been ill and his velocity was down but you just can’t throw fastballs 85% of the time and expect to miss bats. He threw a few nice changeups in LA and seemed to be mixing up his pitches better. I thought he got squeezed somewhat in LA, but that was a bad performance last night. Chalk it up to illness and a rookies learning curve.

    • SultanofSwaff

      ….and Country Joe West. There were a handful of pitches at the top of the zone where he lives that weren’t getting called strikes despite being strikes on the tracker. They said on the broadcast he’s battling a chest infection. Props for even showing up.

      • docproctor

        Agreed that he wasn’t getting the upper-strike calls–and that’s his bread and butter.

  9. jreis

    can the reds at least see what the kid Hunter Greene can do at shortstop. ? I like Peraza as a utility guy but if he is our ss of the future we are in a lot of trouble.

    • docproctor

      I know a guy who was drafted as a shortstop in the first round. His MLB OBP is .342 in a small sample. His minor league OBP was .361 in a large sample. He’s a slick fielder and a perfect 2-hole hitter. Wonder why he’s sitting behind .287 OBP Peraza?

      • Shchi Cossack

        With Peraza’s brief surge, defensively and offensively, shrinking in the rear-view mirror, that option is becoming more viable. Outside of Suarez, Votto & Senzel, he may currently be the best option available for a #2 hole hitter. He’s an outstanding defensive 2B, but not so outstanding defensively at SS. With that said, he’s probably as good as Peraza at SS. I hate relying on FPCT as a legitimate defensive measure, but he had a better FPCT at SS in the minor leagues than Peraza (.951 v. .943) and a better RF (4.34 v. 2.22).

        Peraza has now had almost 1000 PA at the MLB level and has a career slash of .275/.308/.352 with the only really positive period from 250 PA two years ago. I was really hoping that Peraza’s 21 game surge represented a blossoming of his career, but in the 11 games since that period, Peraza has slashed .173/.196/.217. It will require the Reds and Riggleman to bite the bullet, but it’s time to give someone else an oppotunity to prove or disprove their capability of filling the starting SS role by their actual play on the field at the MLB level. Imagine the difference a .350 OBP and .750 OPS from the #2 hole with average defense at SS might make to this team, even if it is just a placeholder until Senzel joins the 25-man roster. Once Senzel arrives, the Reds still need a SS, even if he is shifted to the #7 hole in the lineup.

  10. WVRedlegs

    VARedsFan mentioned Peraza’s 4th inning brain gas and was correct. That did cost a run. Peraza just forgot who the base runner was, Sandoval. In Peraza’s defense, Sandoval did just pinch hit and wasn’t a regular. But still, Peraza’s less than medium effort to get the ball prevented a force at 2nd base of Sandoval. Chris Welsh started to get on Peraza on the lack of effort, but then quickly backtracked himself. That was disappointing. Peraza deserved a little grief over that.
    In the Reds Didn’t Get a Runner In Again Department. After Suarez’s 8th inning 2B, Duvall was useless getting the runner in. Duvall was late on a fastball and smacked a fly ball down the RF line that went foul by 4 feet. Then Duvall looked very silly on strike 3, inning over. It was then time for bed.
    Is Joey Votto backtracking on his rant yesterday to that national media writer? Now he says his comments were made out of “frustration”. I would imagine Votto got called into Riggleman’s office with the Reds front office on a conference call before last night’s game. He changed his tune and attitude awfully quick. C’mon Joey. Stand up when you call out the front office, but you got to MEAN IT. You were correct. Too, too many Reds fans are losing interest in the organization. Don’t just go meekly into the night after they called you to the carpet.
    Today is a mile post game. What will come first for the Reds, win #15 or lose #30???
    Bob Castellini’s and Dick Williams’s Winning Baseball, now 14-29.

    • Bill

      What Votto stated was that he should not have made the comments, however he was not sorry about it. He also said no one contacted him about it, but if they did he would agree that he shouldn’t have made the comments. The comments were made prior to the six game win streak so it happened a week prior.

      • WVRedlegs


        “Probably, probably, I went a little too far with some of the things I said just out of frustration.”

        ““I made it personal when it probably shouldn’t have been. But, again, I can’t help it. I think people do things and say things emotionally when they make it personal. I’m going to do my best going forward to stick to playing ball and doing my job, do my part and make sure the things I say going forward are productive and help us move in the right direction.”

        ^^^^^This sounds an awful lot like somebody talked to him about those comments. He got the You Need to do Your Job And Quit Talking talk.

        ““No, but most importantly, I knew I overstepped my bounds,” he said. “I think that’s something that I haven’t done much in my career, so it stood out to me. Even if someone up top said something to me, I think I would have acknowledged and said, ‘yeah, you’re right. I need to do my job.’ I feel pretty strongly about that.”

        ^^^^^Maybe, maybe not the front office, then probably Riggleman. But somebody said something to him.

      • Bill

        It is possible somebody said something to him, but I doubt Votto is afraid of the consequences of angering the front office. They owe him a ton of money and has been one of the top three hitters in baseball since 2010. He can say anything he wants, what are they going to do? They could bench him for the rest of the year, he still gets paid and the team is significantly worse, then I am sure the players association would have something to say and no free agent would ever want to sign with Cincinnati after that. They could trade him, but we saw that play out with Stanton, the team is significantly worse and he still gets paid. They could DFA him and someone else will pick him up and he still gets paid. Votto has all the power in this situation

      • Jack

        Exactly. And looking at the amount of fans in the stands , he is correct about the fans losing interest. I hope every game ends up with nobody in the stands. The Front Office is still making money but they could be making a whole lot more. To me that’s a bad business man. You want to fill that stadium every game and by doing that, you have to put a good product on the field. Which they don’t because they are cheap.

      • Da bear

        jack – they aren’t losing because they’re cheap. Pittsburgh has a fraction of the Reds payroll and they are performing pretty well. Miami has half the reds payroll and a slightly better record. It’s the poor decisions from not addressing outfield shortcomings and signing Homer long term and Votto to his huge contract and hiring a terrible manager two years too long. Poor drafting hurts too. Not getting enough for Chapman, Frazier, Cueto, Bruce, dat dude.

  11. Jeff Reed

    Votto’s remarks in his age 34 season could be an indicator the no trade clause has been weakened and he wants some playing years with a team ready to contend. A trade could be good for both parties depending on who the Reds would acquire.

    • Jack

      Hr isnt going anywhere where with that salary and the Reds would be dumber than I think they are. They would have to pay a big chunk and still not get a decent prospect. They might as well keep him .

      • lwblogger2

        The issue isn’t Votto being worth the money up until now or even this year. Heck, the issue isn’t even if he’ll be worth the money next year or even 2020. It’s post 2020 that I would suspect that the deal may get sideways as far as AAV for production. I agree, a team trading for Votto is taking on those back-end years and that represents a lot more risk than the contract has to this point. The Reds have already gotten surplus value for him but a buying team would not. That means the Reds will likely have to send money and probably significant money for a good prospect return. They are best to hold onto him as you said.