“Stinko” is Spanish for This Offense Stinks. The lifeless Reds have been shutout by Marlins pitching since the first inning of yesterday’s game. That’s 17 innings. A tough left hander will be a challenge for the LH-heavy Reds lineup, especially when Adam Duvall (.167/.248/.380) and Devin Mesoraco (.237/.293/.368) are struggling. The Reds and Marlins meet tomorrow afternoon at 4:10 p.m. to decide the series.  

Miami Marlins (12-20) 6 ••• Cincinnati Reds (8-25) 0 

Box Score || Lose % || Reds Pitcher Stats || Reds Hitting Stats

Tyler Mahle entered the game as one of the best young pitchers in baseball. He finished April with an xFIP of 3.51. The 23-year-old, making his seventh start of the season, pitched pretty well. He gave up five hits and no walks in six innings. Unfortunately, two of those hits were home runs. Mahle struck out four.

Austin Brice and Kevin Shackelford each pitched a 1-2-3 inning in relief. Unfortunately, for some reason Brice was sent out to throw a second inning and he got into trouble. A combination of not covering first, a hit batter, a legit hit and a bloop single led to three more runs.

The Reds managed only four hits and two walks. One of those was an excellent bunt by Jose Peraza down the first base line. Joey Votto had a single and double. The Reds matched their hit total by hitting into four double plays. 

46 Responses

  1. Bill

    Is Welch drunk, Did you hear him say Starlin Marta hit a home run against Mahle? Sees like on air people are getting as bad as the team.

  2. Sliotar

    The boys better get a win tomorrow.

    The rest of the month:
    @SF (Annual West Coast fun!)

    Lots of travel, several teams that were in playoffs or think they might be.

    My sympahies to anyone who paid to be there tonight. Watching Duvall, Gennett and Mesoraco, 3 guys who won’t be on this team if it ever turns around, go a combined 0 for 8 in a 6-0 loss to a team openly trying to tank…yikes.

    Beating the 101-loss team from 1982 feels very much in play.

    One of the team’s biggest, in-prime assets, Iglesias, is really a non-factor. That’s where we are at.

    • Jim Walker

      Here are some numbers.
      To avoid 100 losses, the Reds have to win 55 of 129 remaining games which works out to a .396 inning percent from here forward. To match last season’s 68 wins. they have to win 60 which is a winning percent of .465 from here forward.

      For 75 wins (which is what a lot of us felt was reasonable going before the season started), the numbers are 67 additional wins/ .519.

      A .500 season? it would take a winning percent of ,566 to garner the required 73 additional wins.

      Draw your own conclusions.

    • docproctor

      That part about Duvall, Gennett, and Mesoraco? Yep. They’re not in our future, but they’re killing our present.

    • sezwhom

      Maybe Marlines management is “openly trying to tank” but tell that to the players. They’re 7 & 3 in the their last ten games.

  3. Chad Dotson

    I kinda think Steve wanted the Reds to lose today so he could write “Stinko de Mayo.” And I’m 100% on board with that. haha, awesome.

    As a wise man once said, Reds fans: If we couldn’t laugh, we would all go insane.

  4. GreatRedLegsFan

    I just can’t understand why they insist playing Duvall, he has underperformed since last year’s all star. Even Hamilton has managed to put his OBP above .300 as of late. Just give the opportunity to other players to see what are they capable of at bigs and move on.

    • Jim Walker

      Maybe they’ve already decided to move on from Hamilton; and, this is Duvall’s last chance?
      Looking forward, they are short on RH hitting pop even presuming Senzel’s arrival. Duvall will be relatively cheap for another year or even 2 which may be why they seem to be going a long last mile with him.

      I’d like to see more of Rosell Herrera. He has sat around long enough now that he should have lost his edge and not be a threat to anyone’s job or the opposition.

  5. big5ed

    In all fairness to you the offense, the Reds have been held scoreless 16 consecutive innings, not 17. (No bottom of the 9th Friday.)

    On 8 hits.

    By the Marlins.

    Chalk up another 3 runs lost to Joey Votto’s complete inability to judge whether to go for a ground ball hit to his right, or to cover the bag instead. 8th inning. The pitcher should have covered, but the real problem was Votto’s lunging for a ball that was hit almost directly to the second baseman. Those balls are the Votto equivalent to Jon Lester’s throwing to first.

    I am good with Duvall trading places with Senzel. Today. I can’t understand why Senzel isn’t learning some outfield basics, given that the MLB team has only 2 outfielders who can hit Major League pitching. And I would plan on replacing Scooter at second with Shed Long or Dilson Herrera in a month or so. I suppose Long could also be learning to play left.

    • Jack

      They won’t be replacing anybody soon. That’s not how this,team operates. They don’t like to hurt anybody’s feelings. They will wait until next year. So then we will be even further behind. Meanwhile all the other teams that have been tanking will be farther ahead . I don’t see this team being better than a lot of teams in the National League going forward. It’s not going to be pretty and the Front Office blew this big time.

      • Mike V

        Jack I agree with you on the “not wanting to hurt anybody’s feelings ” point . Man they have given Duvall and others every opportunity possible. Its time to move on. The Mets have moved on from Harvey . Cant we not move on from Adam Duvall and at least sit Scooter down for awhile and take a longer look at some of our young infielders , Dilson Herrera , Alex Blandino and of course Senzel .( post “super two” restrictions )

      • Bill

        Maybe they are hoping Duvall can build some sort of trade value, but minus the HRs he has been horrible this year and the second half of last year. With Scooter, he is still hitting and I think until Senzel is ready to come up benching him for Blandino doesn’t help the team today or in the future. Herrera just recently got called up to AAA so hopefully the shoulder issue are behind him. The bad news is that he was called up to replace Senzel who appears to be having issues with vertigo again, which is why Senzel won’t be coming up right now

    • bouwills

      Let’s not forget the 8 walks that the Reds received in those 16 innings. Kind of a sabermetrics quirk that the Reds didn’t score. We all know that OBP>BA right?

      • da bear

        amen. and that ‘clutch’ doesn’t matter. as if humans are robots. some handle pressure really well. not any of the current reds. if votto were ‘clutch’ he would have 15% to 20% more RBIs over the years given his opportunities. check out the tony perez numbers in late inning close ballgames as an example.

      • Steve Mancuso

        I checked it out. Late and close:

        Perez: .300/.378/.490 (power .190)
        Votto: .292/.436/.495 (power .203)

        Votto is up against left-handed specialists in every “late and close” situation and Perez didn’t face that kind of specialization, in part because of the time and part because he was right handed.

        How about High Leverage measures, which includes the entire game, because runs count whenever they are scored:

        Perez: .300/.359/.491 (power .191)
        Votto: .334/.462/.605 (power .271)

        How about with RISP:

        Perez: .284/.364/.470 (power .186)
        Votto: .338/.490/.590 (power .252)

        By any measure, Votto has been a better hitter in clutch situations. That’s because he is a vastly better hitter period than Perez was.
        Here are their career numbers overall:

        Perez: .279/.341/.463 (power .184)
        Votto: .313/.428/.539 (power .226)

    • greenmtred

      Agree about Votto’s going for that ball. Pitchers don’t routinely cover first on grounders directly to the 2nd baseman: The first basemzan covers it. Brice should have tried to cover as soon as he saw Joey going for the ball, but he was probably frozen in disbelief, as was I.

      • Bill

        I have not been able to watch the games this year. I have seen this complaint multiple times. Is Votto frustrated and trying to do too much or a lack of confidence in Scooter getting to the ball? I don’t remember this being a problem when BP or Peraza was playing 2B in the previous years

      • Hotto4Votto

        Can’t really blame Votto for wanting to take away fielding opportunities from Gennett. It seemed like Votto and Gennett were talking to each other after another bad throw from Gennett early in the game. Can’t be sure what it was about, but it didn’t seem to be happy chatter to me.

  6. scotly50

    Hope does seem to be fading. This rebuild seems to need a rebuild. At this rate the Reds are not going to be relevant for another five years.

  7. bouwills

    The Toddfather is right. Umpires need a ‘sit-down’ & talking to. I’m not contending the ball & strike calls cost the Reds the game,but I saw more than several pitches a couple inches outside called strikes including 2 consecutive pitches to Blandino. Pitchers adjust by throwing more pitches outside the zone. Right-handed hitters adjust their stance to cover more of the outside area of the plate. Pitchers adjust by throwing brush-back pitches to right -handed hitters. Umpires are altering the play of the game.

    • msanmoore

      Without even checking, I can tell you from what I see it keeps getting worse. And it does cost games at various points. Use the computers to call strikes and quit messing around. That particular “human element” isn’t helping at all.

      • Hotto4Votto

        I agree, I’ve been calling for a computer generated, standardized strike zone for a while now. There’s just too much inconsistency from the umpires. The talking heads like to talk about how hard it is for an umpire to see certain parts of the plate due to where they’re standing. Like that’s a good excuse when we have technology that isn’t reliant on where the umpire is standing.

        And Blandino’s strike out was a direct result of the “human element”. The umpire felt Blandino showed him up by tossing his bat on “strike two” and taking off for first. The umpire’s personal feelings being hurt led to the call of strike 3. That kind of crap shouldn’t happen.

      • Jack

        Totally agree. The called 3rd strike could have been a mile off the plate and the ump was going to ring him up. Did you see how slow and deliberate the up was in calling the 3rd strike. I personally would have had a discussion with him on how terrible he was at his job.

      • Scott Carter

        Those who complain about the umpires and don’t believe it is a hard job have never officiated. having officiated in three different sports the ball/strike call is one of the hardest to call. Welch is correct the positioning of the umpire does make difference in how you see pitches and to some degree catchers are responsible for that, because they move around from side to side depending on the pitch call.
        The other thing that the spectator does not understand is that an inch difference in pitch can make difference in a ball or strike. It may look like it is in the same spot to the spectator but standing directly behind the plate you get a more accurate view of where the ball is. Pitch track or whatever they call it is not and accurate measure of where a pitch is. The camera that tracks that is offset to one side or the other.
        That being said, I would like to see more consistency out of guys who are making a pretty good salary out of what is an avocation for the rest of us who wear the blue (or whatever color they wear where you are). As much money that is involved in the sport you would think the accuracy of a computer generated strike zone would be wanted by all.
        And yes the umpire probably missed strike two on Blandino (at least in regard to what he had called all night) but based on that landing should never have looked at strike three.
        The other call that “missed” was the strike 3 that should have been called on Bour right before he hit the home run.

      • da bear

        Scott Carter: it’s not that officiating balls and strikes is hard. It’s that a machine with technology where it is today will do it more objectively and better than a human being.

      • msanmoore

        I have officiated and know it is increasingly difficult at every advanced level of a sport. And I’m far more of an old-school guy at the core … but this is one area where technology has risen to the level we can depend on it and get an instant result.

        The problem is the wild inconsistency between batters and umps. You have to multiply both of them together to get a perspective of the problem.

        If you go with a robo-zone, you eliminate a tedious aspect and provide a high-level of accuracy and consistency. The zone is the same (based on the standard definitions) for Votto and Geno as it is for Billy and the worst hitter in the league. If they pitcher can’t make it and guys start taking pitches, then the pressure is on the right man to correct his error – the guy NOT throwing strikes.

    • Jim Walker

      The assumption made here is that “the computers” are more accurate over time than the umpires’ human eyes. I’m guessing MLB probably isn’t convinced the state of the art is quite there yet. If it was they would almost certainly have some sort of virtual assistant which would give the umpire a cue to help them sort out the close pitches.

      • msanmoore

        MLB knows they are more accurate. That’s hwy they will “counsel” and umpire with the facts based on computer-generated models of the strike zone. And it is done “instantly” with today’s technology.

      • Jim Walker

        Instantly would be a tone that went off in their ear (or some other indicator) in real time to assist with the call. I doubt that they are there yet; and, not because they couldn’t put the tone in the ump’s ear. That’s part would be child’s play. The issue as I see it is that unlike a goal line, or end line or side line, the strike zone isn’t static. It also exists in all three dimensions with the vertical dimensions varying from hitter to hitter and even perhaps not the same for a given hitter on every pitch.

      • msanmoore

        Jim – all the current technology we see on the TV screen makes this an instant thing. And it is in 3D now. The biggest thing you get is absolute consistency which is the major lacking point at the moment with the way we call strikes.

        It’s stubborn attitudes and negotiated contracts that hold this stuff back.

    • DHud

      What about the human element part of the game on the competitor side? The part where any player who’s got a working knowledge of the game sees the outside call, identifies that as the umpires outside corner and adapts accordingly. Not watch the exact same pitch the very next pitch for a called strike three

      That made me more disappointed in the Reds as a fan than the umpire

      • Jim Walker

        Yep. The 3rd strike Blandino looked at showed as closer to the strike box on my TV than the pitch which was called strike 2; and, I had this same thought.

      • Jack

        Totally agree on thst as well. The ump sucked but Blandino watched the exact same pitch go by. He has to be smarter than that.

      • da bear

        baseball isn’t about smarts. it’s about split second decisions. developing the skill to foul away difficult pitches to hit is something that doesn’t appear to be in abundance. HR or K. boring. we need more Brandon Belts. Fewer Duvalls, Scheblers, Mesoracos, Dunns, etc.etc.

  8. james garrett

    I watched most of the game and tried to be objective but we looked very very bad.It happens in a long season but we must stay the course and continue to let the young guys pitch and play the field.The young starters will sort themselves out and we need to do the same thing with the position players.Yes it means some of the guys that won’t be here next year(Scooter,Duvall,Billy,Mes etc) ride the bench or get DFA well then so be it.We can and probably will lose just as much while watching the younger guys as we do watching the others I mentioned.This year is done for regardless so lets look to next year and beyond.

  9. msanmoore

    On a happier note, I chatted with a fellow Reds fan at a Culver’s in Charlotte yesterday afternoon. It’s always fun to do that.

  10. docproctor

    And Scooter doesn’t belong in the middle of the lineup. He’s batting .210 with runners on base and .216 when they’re in scoring position. He was an RBI machine last year, but the ball’s not juiced anymore–at least for him.

  11. Jeff Reed

    It is what it is. I, for one fan, had hopes the Reds would challenge .500 this season but in retrospect that was only the usual preseason optimism after settling for other sports over the winter except the one you really love. When the FO offseason activity was limited to a couple bullpen moves, it was obvious the 2018 season would be more of the same. I know the Reds are stuck in last place and I know who the good ML teams are so I’ve not checked the standings and won’t check them until the playoffs. In the meantime I’ll watch the development of the Reds and hope a new manager with a plan to win is on board before the season ends.

  12. MrRed

    Stinko de Mayo, indeed! The Reds are gagging the maggots down at the ol’ ball yard and regrettably the FO and ownership seem to be suffering from anosmia.

    What’s the plan du jour, guys? Is it time for Castellini to give another interview where he dismisses the concerns of the fan base and then proceeds to deliver some ‘bullspit’ of his own? Or maybe they can make another decision by committee and determine to trade Iglesias for a slick fielding, fleet-footed, light of bat journeyman because “that’s where the game is going”?

    Good times, people.

  13. Joel

    If the offense stinks, then you should see our pitching.

  14. WVRedlegs

    Stinko de stinko.
    Thank you Dick Williams and Bob Castellini. Io

  15. musicclown

    A little side note from Dayton catcher Hendrik Clemetina age 20 hit his 6th homer, has 23 rbi’s and a .386avg. He came over in the Tony Cingrani trade from LA. Several other minor leagues off to great starts also.

  16. bouwills

    Hypothetically, where do you stand on the Reds future pitching? What if Miami proposed to trade the Reds back Dan Straily for say Lorenzen & either Cody Reed or Robert Stephenson? Would you rather the Reds acquire a middle of the road innings-eater or stay the course with higher ceiling (less results) pitching prospects?

    • Old-school

      Bryan Price had a long tenure as pitching coach and manager being a pitching coach. The reds fired him.and Mack Jenkins. Danny Darwin is respected and talked about pitching inside. I’d like to see Darwin work with these guys .

      Quietly…Florio and Hernandez and Hughes are getting outs with movement and location. The Hughes signing was solid…sinker baller who throws ground balls and knows who he is. Maybe Dawrin can get lorenzen back on track. Reed threw 5 shutout innings last night.

      I’d give Darwin a chance before doing anything.