In a move that was becoming more inevitable with every loss that piled up — and currently there are 15 of those losses in Cincinnati’s first 18 games, and ten of the last eleven — the Reds announced today that manager Bryan Price has been fired, as well as pitching coach Mack Jenkins:

Price has been manager of the Reds for four-plus seasons, during which time the Reds have compiled an underwhelming 279-387 record. Not all of the blame for that losing record should be dumped on Price, as he was handed a Reds roster in the midst of a rebuild and was forced to do the best he could with the cards he was dealt. Ultimately, however, Price’s curious use of the bullpen and strange lineup decisions caused even the most optimistic of fans (we know who I am talking about here) to question his fitness as a big league skipper. As Steve noted here, things are very likely to improve in Cincinnati at this point, but it’s not necessarily because Price is gone.

Bench coach Jim Riggleman will take over as interim manager of the Redlegs; Riggleman has a career record of 662-824-1 as a manager of the San Diego Padres, Chicago Cubs, Seattle Mariners, and Washington Nationals. He has never led a team to a first place finish.

Pat Kelly, who has a couple of weeks under his belt as the manager of the Triple-A Louisville Bats — after spending three years at the helm of Cincinnati’s Double-A Pensacola affiliate — will take Riggleman’s role as bench coach. Pensacola pitching coach Danny Darwin has been named “major league staff,” whatever that means.

Encouragingly, the Reds have hung a strictly “interim” tag on Riggleman, and they intend to conduct a full and thorough search for a manager. The Nation wishes Price and Jenkins the best of luck in their future endeavors.

Blame Chad for creating this mess.

Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, “The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds” is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad’s musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine.

You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Join the conversation! 232 Comments

  1. Price will now join David Shula’s restaurant?

    • exactly that’s where he ranks. won’t get a job anywhere else

  2. Riggleman is going to be interesting. I was never a fan, and i certainly don’t expect any progressive tactics to be utilized. I hope I’m wrong.

    • It’s a placeholder move until the team goes after Girardi. No way he wants this year’s mess.

      • He’s been pretty clear that he wants to manage again. I think they’ll go after Larkin, because it’s hard to say no to that, but I think Riggleman gets a hard look for the job.

  3. Interesting that they retained Don Long.

    • You beat me to it. I am as well.

    • I’ve read a lot of things where hitters have credited Long with helping them find improvements in their swing mechanics.

  4. I agree on the “best of luck” to Price and Jenkins. Wanting to bunt too much is not a moral or character flaw.

    • No, I do not wish either of them bad.
      However, like most jobs, this is performance driven, and I do not think either did a good job.
      It is time for the Reds to move on.

  5. Congrats to Williams for finally rearranging the deck chairs. Riggelman bobble-head night soon to be announced.

  6. I feel bad for Bryan Price and wish him well. But, I am glad the Reds have moved on.

    I am surprised, given the team’s dreadful offensive woes, that nobody on that side of the coaching staff was shown the door as well.

  7. So now we have some who quit on his players and the franchise as our manager?

    • Yeah I would have liked to put the interim manager sign on Kelly and see what he does with the team. If your not keeping Riggleman then fire him. It would be a free audition for Kelly and see how he does. If they don’t like him they bring in somebody like GIRARDI . I hope they hire somebody before the season is over so they can get use to the players and they can get their system in place.

      • I agree on Girardi, since we’re the first to have an opening let’s start talking to him now and get it lined up. Surely he’ll see we’ve got alot more talent in our system than our record indicates so he’ll have something to work with.

        • The knock on Girardi is he cannot get along with the younger players.

      • I would love to see Girardi brought in at the Allstar Break and see what he can do in the 2nd half. Let me get a feel for the team and see what can be set up going into the offseason and 2019.

        • Just remember… Girardi was canned in part of the fear he couldn’t relate and connect with the younger generation. The Reds are going younger.

    • Exactly what I was going to say. Crap, I would have rather they just made Pat Kelly the manager. Whatever. This whole org is a train-wreck. It isn’t like the decision-making on playing time, the rotation, etc is going to change.

  8. Surprised hitting coach was retained. Best of luck to Price.

  9. Free Garrett! Free Blandino! Free Rainey! Let the kids play. Bat Peraza 13th and shift Hamilton to occasional starter, defensive replacement and especially pinch running specialist. Let’s get Suarez, Schebler, DeSclafani and Lorenzen healthy. The Reds have had four straight solid starts – a glimpse of the pitching future. Bryan Price seems like a decent man, but he turned out to be a poor manager (despite my original enthusiasm, which I have long since admitted was misguided). And letting him go won’t suddenly “fix” poor offensive players like Peraza, Hamilton, Pennington, and Gosselin, it won’t magically end Votto or Duvall slides, or miraculously heal the injured stalwarts. But it IS a chance to start playing for the future instead of whatever Price has been doing. Can we start that now, please?

    • Bat Peraza 26th!

      Price 108 games under .500…..its ok to lose just don’t draw attention to management. 7-11 is fine….3-15 and we have to appear to care enough to do something

    • DeSclafani might be talented but is worthless if he never plays..which he hasn’t for the last few years. A player’s greatest trait is availability which he never is. Hate to say it but I’ve moved on from being excited about that guy.

    • Add in free Robert Stephenson. There is just about an eyelash width of difference between RS’s 1/3 of a season of starts last season and Sal Romano’s 2/3 of a season of starts this year and last year. RS is 6 months older and in his last option year. There should be more urgency in coming to resolution on him than SR

      • Romano has potential. Stephenson is a bust. Time to move on…

        • Stephenson certainly has potential. His problem has been command, and command is fixable. He may fail, but he may become an excellent starter.

  10. The glasses! They do nothing!

    This changes nothing, this will perhaps “fire up ” this so-called team, for a week or so. But I actually think Riggleman will do a worse job than Price.
    He’s really “old school”, and I think the clubhouse will become a really toxic place. I think a lot of players will want to get out.
    How apropo: the remark from Zach Cozart’s wife regarding the Reds and the Angels.

    After a long and extensive search, the Reds decide to hire Barry Larkin as Field Manager.

    I wonder if Dick William’s job is on the line, too? Heh.
    Hello 100 losses in 2018. The Rebuild marches forward!

    • Price had generally taken a step forward with Winker getting a major chunck of time at the top of the order and his willingness to let Iglasies go multiple innings occationally. I hope Riggleman will not make it two steps back by putting Hamilton 1 and Winker 6 along with further restricting the pen to roles.

      But something was coming given the start to the season, two straight shutouts to a team with average to slightly above average pitching. Long probably will be gone soon too if the hitting woes continue after some of the regulars return.

      • If they go outside the organization for a new manager, which based on history may be a stretch to think that, I would expect most of the coaches to be gone and be replaced by the new manager’s preferences.

        I’m not convinced Long is a terrible hitting coach. It may be that Billy and Peraza are not capable of doing what is needed. I’ve seen fans screaming for the head of the hitting coach going back to Chris Chambliss and nothing significantly changed when a new batting coach was brought in. Sometimes it’s the players and not the coaching.

      • My vote for manager is the guy who bats Billy 8th

  11. The inevitable has come to pass, leaving a melancholy lump in the pit of the Old Cossack’s stomach. No one wanted Price removed as manager more than the Old Cossack, but it’s a hard blow for a good person.

    So the transition and sorting continues…

    • Cossack
      you are wrong I wanted it more.What a waste of 18 games,probably a waste of a whole season.
      Better late than never though but hiring a retread lifetime loser to run this asylum doesnt appear to be much better.Hopefully I am wrong.

    • Of course, he still gets paid for this year.
      Will make this year, then I do in my life
      (I am an engineer and decent money).
      So, I am not too sad for him.

  12. Is it football season yet? Oh wait the Bengals are just as bad. God save the Queen (City).

    • No but there is a pretty darn good big league hockey team up the road in Cbus in the midst of a barnburner of a playoff series. Next game is tonight on FSOH and NBCSN

    • I used to hope the Reds could stay interesting until preseason, but this year’s squad couldn’t even stay interesting until the freaking draft,.

      • This year’s team couldn’t even stay interesting to St. Patrick’s Day.

        Seriously, I can’t remember a season where there was so little buzz in Spring Training. No surprises, no new ideas, heck, Price didn’t even play a consistent lineup leading up to the start of the season. Like The Price tenure here, Spring Training this year just seemed so aimless and low-energy. There was very little in the way of “feel-good” vibes, and that translated into the start of the season.

  13. This should have been done late last year and Long should have been canned too. Very happy for Danny Darwin and Pat Kelly. As long as Rigglemnan is “interim” I’m fine with that.

  14. I just watched the end of the game. It’s emblematic of Price’s whole time as manager that he was reduced to batting Cliff Pennington when we needed a homerun to tie the game, and that Pennington got unfairly rung up to end things on what should have been ball 4.

    No roster, and no luck. Plus a dash of poor management. The Brian Price Era.

  15. I tend to not like to see anyone lose their job and this is more or less a mercy firing but I totally understand why it had to be done. I would rather see the Reds organization take their time in finding a permanent replacement then a quick hire from within like with Miley and Narron. It will be interesting to see if they will break recent Cincinnati sports tradition and look to someone with no ties to the organization or city. I also can’t wait for the comments on the Cincinnati Enquirer that will read hire Lou Piniella or hire Jack McKeon.

    • Last I checked, Lou Pinella was in the organization. There’s always a chance 😉 … Dear front-office, the prior statement was a joke. Please don’t hire Pinella for the job.

  16. It was time. Never one to be happy to see a decent man lose his job as a manager or a coach. Was a little surprised that it was Jenkins and not Long let go. Have to think he might have just called it quits when his buddy let go.
    Seems as if the pitching was improving more than the hitting.
    Back Weiss and Rainey out and it does not look so bad. Can’t figure that Price wanted Gallardo either.
    The lack of improvement in Hamilton or Peraza lies at the feet of the hitting instructors.

    • I’m pleased it was Jenkins. Something is wrong with a staff that keeps getting squared up on so regularly. Shoot, Eric Thames is reason enough to fire for cause.

    • You can lead a horse (in this case two horses) to water but can’t make them drink. These two quite possibly cannot be big league hitters. Peraza is still young, but can’t really see much change in approach or performance. Billy has had plenty of time. Never hit much in the minors either. Has no feel for the strike zone or anticipating or picking up the pitches. Cannot have both of them in the lineup along with the pitcher. Duvall could use some help, but seems to be coming around of late. Votto will take care of himself.

  17. This needed to happen. Even though DW was named GM…..Price was maintained….who was hired by Jocketty….who is maintained….who was hired by Castellini. Those 3 think alike.

    Jocketty also is motivated to help his legacy. He is chattering in Castellini ear and wants his personnel decisions validated. He needs to go , so truly a transition with new leadership and approaches can happen. WJ needs to step down NOW.

    • Yes, the Reds need to make a clean break with Jocketty, but given his long relationship, dating back to their Cardinal days, Castellini is unlikely to do that.
      Getting Jocketty all the way out might help Williams. But really, I doubt it. Williams has to be looking over his shoulder to the ownership group (including his own family) before he does anything more consequential than take a bathroom break.
      This team is stuck where they are, and really, aren’t moving anywhere. I don’t see a bright future of contention at any time. We can talk bravely about “next year!” but there just is not that much talent in their farm system. All the bright young outfielders in the lower minors have YET to prove that they can do it up here. And Wonder Boy Senzel is struggling at AAA.

      • I think Senzel will be fine but, I certainly don’t understand why fans want to rush him to MLB. Maybe he’s ready but maybe he’s not ready. It isn’t just that he hasn’t had time at AAA but he really hasn’t had much time in the minors at all. He hasn’t struggled as a professional. Sometimes a player needs to struggle and figure his way out of it. Honestly, I would play Blandino at 3B almost every day. I don’t care if he doesn’t hit his shoe size. The Reds need to see if he can play.

  18. I thought it strange that Jenkins was fired but not Long. It seems that our pitching has been much better than our hitting.

    • Possibly because our pitchers are much better than our hitters.

  19. I wish the best for Price and Jenkins. Change was needed. I hope Riggleman will make Winker the regular leadoff man and put Votto in the second position where he belongs, but too much time has probably passed for that change. Keep Hamilton and Peraza in the lower part of the batting order. And the Front Office must make a thorough national search for a manager and not just settle on a personal favorite of the principal owner.

    • Unless Riggleman has changed, he is very, very traditional. In fact, he’s probably been barking that Price’s experimental lineups (Hamilton 9th, slow guy leading off) are causing the Reds run production to lag.

  20. I’ll always remember exactly where I was when I heard this news. (On a subway.)

  21. The talent level is not close to competitive, yet, Price did himself no favors.
    A 3-15 team that has lost over 90 games 3 years in a row and the manager continued to do the exact same things with the lineup and for some reason expected different results.
    If I was an analytical GM like Williams claims to be, then, I would have a direct line and conversation with the Manager on expectations. Player X will never bat in this spot in the lineup, a sacrifice bunt will only be called in these extreme scenarios.
    If the team is truly rebuilding and older/not talented backups are on the roster, then those players are backups and will never start a game.

    A well run organization at this point has clear communication between the front office and the actual manager. Not sure how it could ever work with a manager just doing whatever they wanted.

    A team like the Reds should never hire an old school manager, the Reds will never have elite talent and will need to do everything possible to find an angle.

  22. Now that it is pretty evident that these players and this team are not improving under Price and Jenkins (and Long), this move had to happen

    JOE. GIRARDI.

  23. What about the batting coach?!

    Certainly, Girardi has to be a leading candidate for manager if he wants it. Girardi was successful with one season with the Marlins and we know his track record with NYY. My concern is that he is a really tough-minded manager. That is not a bad trait per se, but would it be compatible for the players the team has put together. Overall he is a proven winner.

    Also I would prefer that the team dives in completely with analytics from FO to the manager.

    • Players need to adapt to Girardi. It’s not like trout is on the team. You want to win or keep what your Doing? I think the players would love to compete for a winner. If they don’t then you ship them out.

  24. Happy for the change. Bunt happy Price had to go. Team needs a swift kick in the proverbial backside. Still time to make this season constructive. I’ll be interested to see what lineup/changes Riggleman makes yet I maintain John Farrell is the man going forward.

    • Exactly what lineup changes can happen, when your backups are Mez, Ervin, Goose, Penny, Blandino? Winker was batting leadoff already when he wasn’t hurt.

      • Stop batting Peraza second. Argument has been made to put Tucker there given his OBP. Stop starting old has beens when Blandino, if he is on the ML roster, needs to play so the team can see if he is part of the future or not. Never bat Billy leadoff and don’t start him against LH pitchers.

  25. Well, Price finally serves as the sacrificial lamb for the Reds front office. I’d safely wager that all in the front office are patting themselves and each other on the backs for looking like they actually did something. All they really accomplished was to cut off a finger to treat the cancer that is in the Reds front office.
    Riggleman, just when you think things cannot get any worse, the Reds front office brings in Mr. Quitter to lead the team. That really only seems fitting for this organization. With a tough schedule through the end of May and a brutal August schedule, my money is that the Reds will need an interim-interim manager to finish out the season. I don’t see Riggleman making it to Sept. 1.
    For those that wanted Price gone, you got exactly what you wanted. But this is going to fall squarely in to the Be Careful What You Wish For category.
    How soon before the griping and moaning starts on Riggleman? It has already started. And it will also get louder and louder as the weeks and months pass by as the losses continue to mount.
    I guess we can also file this under the Placebo Effect. The Reds front office has given the fans a placebo (Riggleman) for their pain. However, the pain will continue on, and it will continue to mount. My brain isn’t buying in to this Riggleman placebo effect the Reds front office is selling. Treat the cancer, not just a couple of the symptoms.

    • Nobody on this planet is viewing Riggleman as a permanent or even better alternative. That’s why the Reds very clearly said “intern” and announced plans to search for a new manager

      • Intern? Or interim? I guess Riggleman could be considered both. I never, ever said anything about Riggleman being permanent. Hardly. Jeez. I did say he may not make it to Sept. 1 and he could be fired by then. The Reds would then need an interim-interim manager to finish the year.
        Or an intern as you say. I’ve read that Monica Lewinsky is available.

      • I sure hope the Reds are not

      • Consider this scenario: Riggleman takes over. The Reds start playing better (as they are likely to do regardless of who is managing. Joey will start to hit, Suarez and Schebler will return, and they can’t get much worse). Do you think that the Reds would not offer Riggleman the job if the team was playing decent ball? I’m not so sure.

  26. They have not addressed the most obvious personnel problem. The director of scouting and drafting. A lot of awful 1st picks in the last 9 years. Travieso, Ervin, Howard, Gellalich, Blandino. Show me a major league ready player from this list?

    • I don’t why the 9 year window, but other than the questionable drafting reliever strategy the first round picks have not been that horrible. The failure to develop pitching or trade for trading for “near ML level” instead of getting the best talent seems like a much bigger deficiency. During those 9 years
      2017 – Greene: too early to tell
      2016 – Senzel: Good pick
      2016 Trammell: too early to tell
      2015 – Stephenson: Hitting well this year in the minors
      2014 – Howard – bad pick
      2014 – Blandino; ML level backup
      2013 – Ervin: ML level backup
      2012 – Gelalich: bad pick
      2012 – Winker: Everyday ML player
      2012 – Travieso: bad pick
      2011 Stephenson: has talent but can’t put it together
      2010 – Grandal: was an all star for the Dodgers
      2009 – Boxberger: All Star for the Rays
      2009 – Leake: ML level starter for five seasons and was used to acquire Duvall

      • All were picks under WJ except 2016 & 2017. Dodgers selected Corey Seager a few picks after Travieso in 2012. When I see you other teams selected after the Reds during these years I get sick. Reds cannot foul up 1st round picks. I know some of it is luck, but I never trusted WJ. I think he’s a plant by the Card’s organization.

        • Kyle Zimmer, Courtney Hawkins, DJ Davis also aren’t looking like great picks from that draft. They were also taken ahead of Seager. Many others who have worked out better than Travieso still haven’t been anywhere near as good as Seager. Reds missed with Travieso but teams miss sometimes and a lot of teams missed on Seager.

      • I don’t think you can place Gelalich and Travieso as bad picks, both sustained injuries that no one could foresee, and Howard also had an injury although I don’t know which cams first the tips or the injury. So all and all even if you call all three of those bad picks that is still not a bad record if drafting.

        • That is my point, based on results only three picks based on outcome are really bad picks. Knowing that every year there are guys who don’t live up to potential, get injured, and even the 21 teams who passed on Mike Trout; overall that isn’t a bad track record. Even first round picks have have a good probability of not making it. This isn’t the NBA where guys step right in and alter a franchise on day 1

    • Really? Ervin and Blandino were late 1st round picks. Making it to the big league club makes them better than half the first round picks in a given year.

      • I’m all for tempering peoples’ expectations about 1st round picks. But to be fair, Blandino being on the MLB club is more circumstantial than a sign of his readiness. There are plenty of clubs he’d still be toiling in the minors for.

        • That is true but there are clubs that he would have made it out of spring training which he should have with Cincinnati.

    • Good point!!

  27. I don’t think it’s strange that Jenkins was let go. These young pitchers need to be able to go longer than five or six innings in a game. Their pitch count is ridiculous when they’re pulled. It’s happened the last few years by the time the second half of the season comes, the bullpen is completely exhausted. I like the Darwin move. I think he worked very well with the young pitchers who are in the rotation. Please put Garrett back in the rotation and Finnegan in the bullpen. I may be in the minority but I just don’t think he’s a starter.

    • Been saying that since reds acquired him,strictly bullpen material

    • You aren’t in the minority. I’ve been hollering this since last year, when his arm wouldn’t hold up to starting. Same with Lorenzen.

    • SOWELO,
      I think a lot of us agree 100% with what you just said.

    • I used to think so to, until I started looking closer last year. Very few starting pitchers are even averaging 6 IP per start anymore. Last season, in the NL, there were only 29 pitchers who averaged more than 6 IP/GS and who threw more than 100 IP total. That number used to be way higher I know, but the game is different. Starters still go more than 6 IP per game regularly, but not nearly as regularly as I thought and not nearly as regularly as even 10-12 years ago.

      • I have the same thought, LW. It would be interesting to discuss why this is a trend.

        • I went and saw Tony Santillan pitch on Tuesday night. He threw 6 shutout innings and was yanked after just 85 pitches. This is with a DH, so he wasn’t lifted for a PH. They are babying their arms too much now. They are breeding 5 inning pitchers. Get used to the 13 man pitching staff.

          • Anecdotally, pitchers are generally throwing harder now than they did when 8 inning starts weren’t as rare as hen’s teeth. That alone could account for the babying.

  28. As Sam Spade said, “Some one has to take the fall.” Too bad the owner can’t be fired.

  29. Surprised the ax fell this quickly. Was thinking it might take until June.

    In previous years, I’ve been ALL ABOUT firing Price. Remember, he didn’t really inherit a rebuilding team. They were competitive going into the All Star Break of his first season. And then, well, to paraphrase Yeats, things fell apart. The center could not hold.

    But in the past several weeks, as I learned more about how managers aren’t as influential in team performance as they used to be, I had reversed course and was more skeptical of this move. In the short term, it might help. It had to be difficult for players to go out there every game and play loose, knowing that each and every mistake they made could cost their (apparently beloved) manager his job. Tension had to be building up as they saw the handwriting on the wall.

    This, if nothing else, relieves the tension. The worst–from their perspective–has come to pass. It has happened so they no longer have to worry if it’s going to happen.

    Riggleman is a familiar face and should hopefully help minimize the disruption of the firing. Lots of players had a history with him going back to his time managing Triple A Louisville.

    Buck Showalter’s contract with Baltimore ends this year. I hope he gets a good look from ownership.

    Lots of other good candidates out there, too, though. Most mentioned previously in this conversation.

  30. I know that Riggleman does not have a great managerial record, but for God’s sake look at the teams that he has been at the helm with. Miller Huggins would have the same reputation!

    The team needs a good kick in the ass! Bring back Fred Hutchinson! Fred is managing in the Field of Dreams, but get somebody like him who makes players accountable for their play!!!!

    For the folks that thinks that Peraza is what is wrong with this team, I’ve got a list of about 15 things before I get to him.

    • Peraza is terrible….he will literally swing at pitches that might him otherwise. No power and refuses to walk. I would agree you could find 15 (or 150) other problems though. Billy, Joey turning Adrian Gonzalez overnight, pitching, bench full of Moonlight Grahams that can’t hit, etc, etc

      • As you noted, Peraza is not the main problem, but, the Reds have too many players like Peraza. He has a career wRC+ of 73 and a walk rate of 3.5% with no power. In addition, he is not an elite defender. There is always potential for improvement, but, there is little evidence of that at this point. Peraza could be fine on a team of great players and batting 8th. Instead, the Reds have him hitting 2nd in the order. It is just a path to failure as an organization.

  31. I didn’t like the Riggleman signing to manage AAA. I didn’t like the Riggleman promotion to bench coach for the Reds. I don’t like the Riggleman hiring as interim manager for the Reds. I’m not going to get too worked up over an interim manager, unless he is counterproductive to the Reds future needs during his interim tenure as manager.

    I hope the Reds are already developing a hiring process and list of potential candidates for the next manager. They don’t need to expedite the provess, but they do need a process that will net the best candidate for the job. Since Williams is the GM and he will be the GM for the forseeable future, this needs to be Williams hire, without interference from WJ or BC. This should have bee done last season rather than picking up the option on Price’s contract, but it wasn’t.

    No to Riggleman.
    No to Larkin.
    No to Girardi.

    I hope Williams handles the vetting process thoroughly and discretely until the interview process gets intensive. The Old Cossack’s initial list for vetting would include (but not limited to):

    #1 Ryan Hanigan
    #2 Joe Espada
    #3 Bob Geren
    #4 Ron Roenicke

    • Whats wrong with Girardi? I think he’d be great although I don’t know why he wouldn’t wait for a better job? The thing I like about Girardi is that he would have enough pull that they wouldn’t be forcing players on him like I suspect the front office did with Price. Although maybe Price is that clueless? Price is a bright guy so I always tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

      • Exactly Indy. Geren? Lifetime losing manager is not what we need. Got shown the door in Oakland because of his lack of communications. Hsnigan has no managerial experience. I would rather have David Ross.

    • Great post. If Williams is truly this analytical GM, then he needs to make the next Manager hire on his own and have a good sense that this manager adheres to the plan that that Reds have in place.
      Said Manager should have clear and precise direction on what is and what is not acceptable.

      An issue at this point is that Williams has not exactly built a competent roster and there is not much talent waiting to show up on the Reds.

    • I like the idea of Hannigan. I have no idea if he is interested or of his credentials but his attitude should earn him a legitimate look if he is interested.

    • SHCHI,
      What do you think about Hensley Meulens.
      He has been a bench coach for the Giants for the past several years.
      Not too old.
      He might be the type of new blood the Reds need.

      • I think Hensley Meulens is an interesting name for consideration. There are a lot of interesting names I would have on my list for vetting. The few I listed were just initial thoughts.

        I’m not sure the Reds could pry Meulens away from the Giants, but I would certainly make the inquiry. He’s well respected, well travelled and experienced. I’m a huge Bochy fan and Bochy hired him as a bench coach this season. Bochy’s either grooming him as his heir-apparent or grooming him for an opportunity just like the Reds have available.

    • I agree on all points, especially on the interference from BC & WJ. They should have shown WJ the door, but we all know he’s protected by BC. I really like former catchers as managers. The Red’s may sniff the playoffs by 2030. WJ will be gone by then & possibly the Castellini’s. The Williams are an institution.

  32. Couldn’t they force Price into a demotion, i.e. make him pitching coach under Rigelman? Then if he refuses you escape his contract? Or is that just not allowed under the contracts structure? I think Price is useful as a pitching coach if he can focus on that only. Sure it would be a bitter pill to swallow but he still gets paid and the team basically says hey we will pay you manager money to just do the pitching side of things. Oh well, its over now, but that’s what I would have done.

    • I’m not an expert on manager contracts, but I don’t think it works that way. I also it is never a good idea to have the demoted guy in the same area, typically if you demote someone they are sent to a lesser role in a whole different part of the organization.

    • Dusty used the bullpen (ondrusek, Arredondo…ect) almost to a T the way Price used it. Maybe it was Price making all of those bad bullpen choices back in the Dusty days.
      Price is getting paid for the rest of the year now, not to do anything. Pretty nice gig, why would he accept the humiliation of a demotion for the same price as time off?

  33. SF bench coach Ron Wotus would be at the top of the list. It will take compensation to SF to get him during this year though. But I would gladly send a pitching prospect to SF for that compensation. It would be nice to get the new manager on board before the end of this season to gain a little momentum into the winter. But as cheap as the Reds that won’t happen, they won’t pay ay compensation. Also as cheap as the Reds are, Girardi and Farrell will be out of price range. Girardi would be interesting, but a big no on Farrell.
    I also might look at Detroit coach Omar Vizquel. But that would be another compensation thing if done this season.

    • I am not sure about Wotus because long time coaches in their late 50’s that haven’t managed tend not to get looked at but Hensley Meulens might be considered. He was in the frontrunner for the Yankee job that went to Aaron Boone. Also just to throw the name in the hat is David Bell because of both Reds & Cardinals ties and now with the Giants organization.

      • Wotus has 3 Manager of the Year Awards from the minor leagues in the Giants organization. He also sports 3 World Series rings with his time in SF with Bochy.

        • He was minor league manager of year over 20 years ago and was basically demoted from bench coach to 3rd base coach after last season. Meulens has also won 3 rings with Giants and is most likely the replacement when Bochy decides to hang it up unless someone hires him first.

      • Wasn’t Bell in-line a few years ago? The Reds re-upped Dusty and he moved on to the Cubs?

        • He was highly regarded at one time and then was bench coach for Cubs right before Madden was hired and seems to have fallen off radar past few years. I am not endorsing but feel could be a dark horse candidate. Not endorsing Meulens either but currently a hotter name than Wotus.

  34. Price just flat out couldn’t manage,riggleman most likely isn’t the answer but I do believe he will be a major improvement over price

    • Time will tell. Riggleman has a lot of ML managerial experience and this interim position is his chance to see if overall improvement is evident by the end of the season. That will be a big factor in a job if not with the Reds then with another team.

  35. C Trent with outstanding interview of Pat Kelly. He says definitively…Senzel is not a major league shortstop.hes playing half at 3b and half 2b. That would suggest the door isn’t closed on suarez going to SS.

    • When Suarez is back and Senzel comes up, I see an infield of Votto, Gennett, Suarez (ss) and Senzel (3b) with Shebler/Duvall in right field and Hamilton/Ervin in center and Winker leading off in left field. Possible change will occur during the coming busy front office offseason.

  36. Reading the article at Reds.com says no one expected the offense to struggle like this… umm, yea we all did with Billy and Peraza at the top of the order and the departure of Cozart. They pitch around Votto that leaves Suarez in the key role and of course they plunked him and Schebler the two best hitters. Really that has defined our young season, they are throwing inside at anyone that shows any life at the plate (Meso being the latest) and we don’t retaliate. None of our guys are wearing protection like other teams, something weird in the wind with all the protection, its like the rest of the league has decided to throw at guys and we didn’t get the memo.

    • I didn’t expect it to be this bad… and Billy hasn’t been at the top thaaat much

    • This is a whole new thread, but from what I’ve read, Votto isn’t really being pitched around. His walk rate is actually a lot lower than usual at this moment. He just isn’t hitting for the “respect me” power to even make them throw around him too much. Sometimes, yes… With Duvall hitting poorly, but in general, Joey has some work to do.

      • This team is in need of high OBP players. When you have the pitcher, Hamilton, Peraza well below the average in OBP and Duvall at 300 and stryggling this year ,well that makes it hard to score runs.

      • Isn’t this what it looks like when someone starts “over the hill”?
        No one knows exactly when aging ballplayers lose coordination, reaction time, eyesight, strength, etc.
        I know, there are analyses of past players where one can see deterioration taking place and thereby deduce a range of age where this happens.
        But it is still hard to know when a specific individual gets to this point.
        I am not saying Joey Votto is there (I HOPE NOT) but I do wonder about it.
        I mean, the way Joey may show he is on the downside is that after the usual cold April he never reverts back to his old self in May, or June, or July, or………….

    • Can we please stop with this beanball nonsense? We’ve suffered a few key injuries, but not on anything intentional. Schebler got hit on the elbow, Suarez the hand, and Mesoraco the forearm. That happens close to the plate – intentional plunkings hit the body.

      Oh, to bring some actual analysis to the discussion, we’re firmly in the middle of the pack in HBP/game. No one is throwing at us more than any other team. There is no decision to target our hitters and no one missed any imaginary memo, lol.

      https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/hit-by-pitch-per-game

  37. I will never forget Joe Girardi announcing to the Wrigley Field crowd that Darryl Kile had died in his sleep the night before and the game was being cancelled. It was June 2002…had to look it up. He’s a good man and a great manager….the Reds would lucky to get him imo!

    • Agree but this is the Reds. They will go after somebody cheap or no experience that the Front Office can tell him what to do. This organization is a disaster. The fans were yelling for dustys head and wanted the Front Office to hire Price because Arizona was looking to hire him. They panicked and interviewed nobody and hired Price. You want a winner then hire a winner. This team doesn’t go after free agents. They need a hard nosed manager that gets on players and knows the game . That gets the best out of their players coming up from the farm system. Bench coach hires in my opinion won’t work with this team. Same way in Pittsburgh. That’s why they have Hurdle.

      • I vote this comment as largely true. This organization is a disaster, and Williams can’t fix it alone. The evidence is abundant. There is not much hope in being a contender soon, unless Big Bob opens the piggy bank and signs to major Free Agents, and I really don’t think that’s a good idea either.

        I look for some fiery, defiant press release about the Reds and their future from Castellini and company in a week or so, to fire up the fans, and bring them out to the games.

  38. Ok I’m confused. There are a number of people here who believe that former player and Yankee manager Joe Girardi should be a top candidate to be the next manager. Ok what am I missing? Sure he had a winning record in NYC, but from what I got was a major issue there was in NYC with him was he was to much old school and didn’t embrace the ever growing analytical managing that most here on this site want to see. If he is old school then why him and on the flip side why would he want to come to a minor league team like the Reds with limited talented, restricted budget and lack of direction.

    • I agree… he would at least represent a leap outside the organization, but probably not stylistically appropriate. Somebody tell me… who are the “next” Joe Maddon’s out there? That’s who I want.

      • You mean the guy that tried his damnedest to lose the WS to a team missing their #2 and #3 starters? I like Maddon but he was a whisker away from screwing up that WS and becoming a goat forever. He’s a little overrated. Girardi took the Marlins to 78-84 with his first job and they had the lowest payroll in mlb.

        • Don’t forget Maddon’s Tampa Years. Not insignificant work.

          • Was that more on Maddon or their scouts and player development? They picked high every year and had a lot of talent on those teams. A lot of talent that other teams were after. Unlike the Reds of the past.

          • I think it was a perfect bridging of both. Tampa as an organization had an outstanding philosophy, and Maddon jived perfectly. There are times when it’s appropriate to say “any manager could do that”… but I think he had as much as any given manager can with the successful run in Tampa.

            I admire flexible, interesting thinking. Baseball is a great outlet for that.

          • Bringing young talent along isn’t everybody’s forte (cough, Dusty, cough).

    • Yes, this is true. Girardi is not an analytical manager, which is why his time in New York ran out.

      He has some positive traits, yet, not sure he would be a good fit for the Reds.

      • Girardi didn’t get along with the Front Office and the press. And in NY when you don’t get along with the Press , they will run you out of town.

      • Girardi won 900 + games in 10 years…a WS and made the playoffs 6 times. He is regarded as a top 5/6 Yankees manager of All time below Torre/ McCarthy/ Stengel and ahead of Martin/showwalter/Piniella.

        He embraces analytics and is on record as saying he meets with analytics personnel and gets as much information as he can. Cashman is the ultimate analytics guy so not being Cashman is still 10x more analytics driven than baker/ price.

        He was fired for ” communication” reasons. Cashman felt the younger players needed a different voice. Mark texiera was blunter, saying Girardi was too intense and managed every game like the 7 th game of the world Series and players needed a more relaxed atmosphere. He’s a Midwest guy and a proven winner and has stated clearly he will manage again. He should be interviewed.

        Yankees just ended a 7 game losing streak BTW .

        • Texeira the guy who never started hitting until june?. Maybe he should have listened to his coach. Most NY fans here in NY were glad to see him retire. I think if you polled the people here in NY they would have rather seen Cashman leave before Girardi. The Ellsbury signing still leaves a bad taste in their mouths.

        • Girardi is one of those catchers turned managers. I don’t think anything is special about him, but catchers are the smartest players in the game, they are basically the field generals… they do make good managers. Like Mike Scoscia, Bob Brenley, etc. And usually they can hit the ground running without a whole lot of experience. So yea we have guys that have been in our own organization that might fit the bill in that respect.

  39. According to Les Nessman, famed Cincinnati sports reporter, the Reds Rebuild Plan is “hitting the ground like bags of wet cement.”
    MLB’s 2018 Executive of the Year: Dick Williams.
    If Dick Williams continues to be the Reds General Manager, it won’t be too long before we will have to refer to the Reds as the Montreal Reds, or the Charlotte Reds.

    • This isn’t on Williams. I still don’t think he has much real power. This is on Castellini and the fact that Jocketty still has too much weight with the team’s owner in his advisor roll. Walt tells the big guy something, the big guy goes to Williams with the idea. What’s Williams supposed to do? He can push back some but not too much. Or Williams has an idea, Jocketty doesn’t like it and tells Castellini as much. Castellini doesn’t give Williams the go-ahead for his idea. I think this is happening a lot. It’s strictly conjecture. I mean, I have ZERO proof and I don’t know anyone in the Reds’ org anymore, but I really think this is part of what’s happening.

  40. My assumption is that Long has a good relationship with Votto and Suarez or maybe just Votto. When you have someone like Votto, I would not be surprised if management thought about getting rid of Long and prior to doing so asked Votto about him. Last think the FO wants to do is upset Votto.

    Don’t forget Votto hit 256 in March/April last year as well. He isn’t a fast starter but when he picks it up he really picks it up. No one else on the team with Suarez sidelined on this roster is capable of carrying an offense for a month.

  41. It doesn’t matter who the manager is if you don’t have enough talent? I’ve caught several White Sox games and they have this kid Yoan Moncada. He Ks a ton but 98.7 mph exit velocity when he connects. Billy is at 78 and Jose is at 84. Granted they’re almost as bad as the Reds and have no pitching, but they need to find kids that can take a walk and have the bat speed to hurt the baseball. Taylor Trammell (20 yrs old) and Stuart Fairchild (22) are both doing well so maybe one of them can make it to the Reds by 2020. Find some stopgaps in the meantime and send the “havoc” twins someplace else!

    • LOL, you always mention these big name guys like Wil Myers and now Moncada as if they are lesser known talents.. these guys are blue chip prospects that everyone who pays attention to baseball knows about, at least I do and I am not a White Sox or Padres fan, but these guys have big reputations. Moncada is also very fast, actually fits the bill for what Reds are looking for usually. I think he is Cuban? Anyhow, these guys didn’t come out of nowhere, they were heavily recruited. I am surprised the Padres got Myers away from TB, would def. be nice for our Reds to identify a guy they want and go get him, I just don’t think our scouts are trustworthy in that respect. They seem to focus on finding bargain basement guys and try to flip them like they did with Straily, Simon, etc. Which is kind of pathetic.. sort of like dumpster diving. I guess that’s what we are as an organization, dumpster divers. And the result is a dumpster fire.

      • Moncada’s name has been around for a while but I don’t know if the average Reds fan has seen him yet. I was just trying to make the point that his talent stands out. The A’s are another one. No pitching but alot of young thumpers that are up there to do damage! I’m just not seeing that kind of talent coming up with the Reds. Now I haven’t seen anything on Senzel except 4-5 spring atbats but WInker might be like a Sean Casey….if you forced Sean Casey to play RF. Nice player but not exactly a game changer.

        • Well Winker is a different type of talent, seems to hit for average and knows how to work a walk. Not fast, not a good fielder, but a nice prospect who seems to be panning out for us. Senzel looks like gold too but who knows. Where I am most concerned is the fact that we gave up on Cingrani and now the Dodgers are getting quality innings from him. What did we do wrong? Dodgers are known to develop pitching, but now the Reds trade Ariel Hernandez too, and what we got in return was a joke, a guy with lots of pop but nothing else who struck out 180+ times in a brief minor league season. The Reds are going to let the Dodgers develop our pitchers for their benefit? Pathetic! And the last thing we need is another guy who will strike out over 200 times in the majors. This team has problems in management and coaching before we can even discuss the talent of the players.

          • Cingrani had an attitude about pitching, and was in Price’s doghouse all the time, because he could not learn to throw a breaking ball. And thus, Cingrani and his live arm and fastball were not enough to satisfy Price. And this sounds a lot like Cody Reed.

          • Ariel Hernandez will be a closer for the Dodgers. Take it to the bank. And, we couldn’t develop him and ended up giving him away.

      • Before the start of this season the result WAS a dumpster fire.I think now it is the Hindenburg.

        • @David…. Except Cody Reed has yet to show that he can pitch through a major league line up.

  42. Everybody ripping on Peraza hitting second should know he’s hitting 285 with all five of his doubles in the 2 hole…..obviously not a world beater, but not unacceptable either. Now can he keep that pace, I have no idea.

    • Hitting anywhere specific in the lineup (with the possible exception of 8th in front the pitcher) is not relevant to success and any results to one extreme or the other are just small sample size anomalies. For instance, Peraza’s BA when hitting 2nd in the lineup:

      2018 => .286
      2017 => .226
      2016 => .375
      2015 => .133

  43. Mixed feelings. I’m in the “Walt’s fault” camp, but when you start like this the manager is the fall guy, regardless of how much he is to blame. But seriously, why are we still blaming Hamilton/Peraza for the offense? How about Votto/Duvall? They are the ones that are significantly under performing so far this year. Missing Schebler/Suarez has hurt for sure too, but in our offense I would say Hamilton/Peraza/Scooter/Winker are about where we would expect them. Votto/Duvall, no where close!

    • The whole offense blows. No one is hitting in the clutch, no one drives in a runner in scoring position with less than 2 outs. Votto has started slow before, its not exactly shocking. Duvall is a streaky power hitter that is not shocking either. Scooter got robbed on 2 home runs vs Philly. We started off against elite pitching so a slow start offensively was expected. The biggest issue is we lost two hot bats by getting plunked on inside pitches. I am seeing everyone wearing these helmets protecting their faces now. Pitchers are going inside now aggressively, more so than I ever remember. We didn’t retaliate. And our guys aren’t wearing the armor. We didn’t get the memo that the league has gone full chin music.

      • Pitchers pitched inside routinely during my formative years. They should pitch inside, too, because they will not generally be effective if they don’t. It’s usually evident when a pitcher is trying to hit a batter, and I can’t say that I’m seeing as much of it as you seem to be. My thought is that hitters aren’t so adept at avoiding inside pitches as they once were. An explanation I’ve heard is that metal bats in high school, college and the minors discourage pitchers from pitching inside, since those pitches can be hit harder with metal. I don’t know, but it sounds plausible.

    • The issue some has is not necessarily the record this season, but, that Peraza, Hamilton, and Duvall are not the answers for a successful MLB organization. Votto definitely deserves some of the blame, but, he clearly has a track record of being a very productive hitter. That level of production will decline as he ages.

      Votto is not above criticism for his start to the season, but, the Reds lost 94 games with Votto having an amazing season last year. Therefore, it is not difficult to conclude that there may be more issues than whether Votto is hitting or not. That is where the the analysis of the players other than Votto arise.

      • I agree about your first sentence Ernest… in an ideal world, the outfield is stacked enough that Duvall is the guy coming off the bench to PH. That’d be a much more effective threat than the current cast of bench holder-downers.

  44. This mess it totally on WJ and DW. They created this disaster. They need to be held accountable but won’t be. Sure, Price was dealt a poor hand and didn’t really didn’t help his cause, but his effect was minimal. Here’s my line of blame

    1) FO: WJ, DW, and Bobby.
    2) Injured players. Get healthy, and get your acts together. You’re really hurting the squad.
    3) Price. He didn’t help the cause at all.

    • Furthermore, Riggleman is not the answer. In fact, I think he’ll be worse. Things are gonna get real, real ugly here. I can see any semblance of team unity/chemistry going out the window.

      • Their winning percentage is .167. They’re on a pace to win 27 games. I predict it’s going to get better.

  45. I can understand this. I’ve said before, about Price’s pitching coach abilities, that I simply wasn’t impressed. I mean, ever since he’s been here, our staff as looked more like a MASH unit than a pitching staff. I can understand a season of “bad luck”, maybe even 2. We are going on about 6 of 8 seasons of bad luck with pitching health. That’s not “bad luck”, that’s a trend. I don’t know enough about Price to say it’s all on him. But, I will say, it did correspond with his arrival as far as I’m concerned. Did something else go on at that time? I just don’t know. But something was going on.

    I believe Jenkins was just someone to make it a deal package.

    As for Price’s managerial ability, I stated I loved his basepath aggression when I first saw on it, his first year managing. However, back then I said they needed to learn to run “with their head”, and I wasn’t seeing that. Taking an extra base is a “calculated risk”, and I simply didn’t see anyone making any calculations, just running to see if they can make it. I said back then that aspect needed to be changed, and I’ve seen no change with this.

    I don’t believe the problem is the talent. I believe it’s there. Our development of that talent from AAA and up seems to be sad. Horrible.

  46. Why would you bring up Kelly to be a bench coach? I can’t get that out of my head. He has 2 weeks as manager for Louisville and you bring him up. After they hire a coach is he going back to Louisville? Doubt it. So why would they bring him up? Did they promise him something? I mean if I was the manager I would stay there knowing I wouldn’t have a job after the new manager was hired. Do they have the new manager already ? Does that manager want Kelly on his staff? Is it Kelly? Just seems weird to me. Am I missing something?

    • Just like players, managers and coaches are thrilled with the chance to be in the majors. They don’t hesitate. It’s where everybody in that profession wants to be.

    • Pat Kelly did a great job with Pete Mackanin and the Reds brass must trust his loyalty

      He should have been given the job and Riggleman should have been shown the door as well

  47. I don’t like the whole interim thing. If they have somebody in mind for manager,hire him now. The last thing thing this team needs is for the current owner and FO to analyze the situation for 8 months. I don’t have a lot of confidence in them obviously.

    • Why would you. The guys on MLB network said the Reds Front Office failed . Welcome to our world.

    • I don’t like the idea of the current owner and FO, if they have somebody in mind, hiring a manager now.

  48. Best of Luck to Bryan Price and Mack Jenkins. Glad to see the promotion of Danny Darwin, he will be quite familiar with Mahle, Castillo, Romano, Reed, Garrett, etc. Hoping they all continue to develop into solid pitchers.

    I’m still cautiously excited about seeing the returns of Suarez and Schebler as well as the eventual mlb debut of Senzel. I hope they wait till mid June, although the FO’s comments from recently make me wonder if it’ll be some random date in may or September.

    • even with suarez, schebler, senzel, and a healthy pitching staff off the dl, lets face it this is still a sub 500 team.

      • I don’t agree with this is “still a sub 500 team.” with A healthy staff and Senzel up with the big club.

        June 15, 2018 possible “Healthy” Rotation and Bullpen:

        Desclafani
        Castillo
        Mahle
        Bailey
        Romano

        Bullpen
        Iglesias
        Finnegan
        Garrett
        Peralta
        Lorenzen
        Hughes
        Hernandez

        Lineup:
        1. Winker
        2. Suarez
        3. Votto
        4. Schebler
        5. Senzel
        6. Barnhart
        7. Peraza
        8. Hamilton
        9. Pitcher

        This is a .500 ish team, I believe. The team’s value is not static, even without roster changes. Castillo, Mahle, Romano, Garrett and Peralta are still developing into what they will be. It appears Bailey is settling into post TJ value (solid #5 starter). Winker and Senzel are still developing into the best version of themselves, as is Blandino. I’m prepared to sit back and enjoy seeing just how good or not good this team in the June to end of season timeframe.

  49. Price should have been shown the door after his f bomb rant. Period.

    • Fired for an f-bomb rant? If that were general policy, the unemployment rate would be stratospheric.

      • I would have gotten fired last week! Of course my ‘rant’ only consisted of 3 f-bombs.

  50. What conversations were had with DW and Riggleman.
    I hope he comminucaref some clear directives . I like an interim manager. He works for the GM and knows he could have been fired too. He also knows his next job depends on his performance- not necessarily playing .550 baseball but leading and managing the team. Does the 4 man outfield stay in place? Does Hamilton continue to hit leadoff ? Do bullpen roles stay the same?

    I want to hear Winker is the new LF and leadoff hitter and will get a few hundred at bats there.

    • Yes. I would certainly hope that Williams has a clear direction for an interim manager. If Riggleman is giving free reign, then hope for the organization may be lost.
      For the Reds to be competitive, all aspects of the team must be going in the same direction with the same clear goal.

  51. Add this firing to the long list of things Redleg Nation figured out a long time before the Reds organization did. I really don’t understand why we seem to know so much more about the Reds than the Reds do.

    • Before we get self-congratulatory, we should recall that the Nation, as I remember it, approved of the Price hiring.

  52. This franchise needs a shot of adrenalin and putting a HOF ss at the helm would do just that. Larkin would be respected by the players and loved by the fans (in the beginning, anyway). He’s smart. And there’s nothing wrong with hiring a former Red. The Reds were terrible when Pete took over and it put some excitement back in Cincinnati. They started to turn the corner. It didn’t end well for Pete but I don’t think Lark lives at the track. The lineup has a hole at short. He’ll know fairly soon who needs to be there. He’s the man.

  53. With deckchairs rearranged the Titanic sails on.

  54. Don’t particularly like the Riggleman hiring but could see it coming a mile away. I don’t get the live being shown fir Girardi as a manager. I like hike and think he has been a good manager but he managed for the Yankees for Pete’s sake. He would not have a similar roster in Cincinnati. We need a younger guy who understands and utilizes modern analytics.

  55. I don’t agree with the calls for Don Long to be fired. The hitting was above-average last year, and you can’t blame Long for the hitters going into a collective slump for three weeks. I get it with Jenkins — you’d like to have seen a bit more progress among all of the young pitchers, and I believe he’d been there for a year and a half without real dramatic progress.

    We’re learning in a disappointing and even painful way that this team is much farther away than most of us, including me, believed. The firing of Price is indicative of the fact that the front office did not expect this poor of a record or performance in year four of the rebuild plan. The injuries this team has suffered the past two or three years have shined a glaring light on the lack of quality depth in the organization and the inability of the front office to find some at-least-adequate replacements.

    Frankly, it’s hard to imagine we’ll see anything different strategy-wise from Riggleman. Maybe he will get the attention of some people that Price couldn’t or wouldn’t reach. This is the first time a lot of these guys have played on a pro team where the manager was fired. Might be a way to send a message to some of them that it would be advisable to improve your performance sooner than later.

  56. Regarding the managerial search, it seems as though the Reds are in a similar position to what the Bengals were in 2001 — years of losing with head coaches promoted from within. Mike Brown went outside and found Marvin Lewis who — despite his critics, which include me — is the most successful coach in the team’s history, leading the team to the playoffs six times. I think the Reds and Dick Williams will need to do a comprehensive search and find the next Joe Maddon. Frankly, if they default to Barry Larkin, it will be about as exciting to me as the Bengals hiring Bruce Coslet or Dick LeBeau.

    • Going back to 1990 the 3 most successful Reds managers are outside hires with no ties to team or city (Lou Piniella, Davey Johnson, Dusty Baker).

      • Good point. And don’t forget Jack McKeon, though he may have been affiliated with the organization in some way before he was hired as manager. (I don’t recall the circumstances.)

  57. Our long national Price-mare is over.

    He seems like a nice guy, so I wish him well and I’m sorry he has to go through this.

    But this is way overdue.

    Can we bring Dusty back?

    • To this day, I still don’t understand why Dusty was canned. I know the stories of “if you want to fire my coach, you have to fire me too”, and talks about how he “lost the team”, but the dude did nothing but win. I know people will chalk that up to him having a “loaded” team, but remember he kept winning one season where Joey Votto missed something like 60 games.

      Dusty created a positive vibe around the team, and for a brief time, he made the Reds relevant on the national stage. The players liked him and played hard for him, and he liked the players. Since Jack McKeon, he’s the only Reds manager that I would say was actually a net positive for the team.

      • Wow, I’m not the only one!

      • As I recall, there was a perception that Baker was blase about the fact that the Reds limped into the playoffs, and then got shelled in the Wild Card game by Pittsburgh — maybe that he lacked the ability to light a fire under the team. It certainly wasn’t his record.

      • Not even Dusty would be able to win with the MASH unit we have had as a pitching staff. See 2011 season. Dusty would just go complain to the papers that we have to go out and get the players, aka free agency. What about his actually being able to coach some players up? That’s how Baker makes teams better; go get the players, not actually develop players. That’s one reason why rookies and youngsters rarely got any playing time with Baker. He didn’t understand how to use players, develop players, put them in times to be successful, etc.

    • NO. I’d rather get Sweet Lou back out of moth balls than bring Dusty’s starting-pitching-mishandling self back to town. No. Just…no.

  58. FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! Now, give Buck Showalter a blank check and ask him to come and manage the Reds. btw- Great to be back on Redleg Nation.

    • missed your attendance reports every night!

    • I do like that idea very much. Buck has been known to turn some teams around. Maybe a bit weak on pennants, but definitely gives teams ideas of winning. Only one problem, from what I can tell, he’s still coaching the Orioles.

      • I think Showalter’s contract is up after this season. If the Orioles don’t retain him I would hope he would be on the list of candidates if he is at all interested. He’d be at or near the top of my list.

    • Good to see you back Sarge…I Shirley hope to see you on the game threads

  59. Here is what happen to Price and Jenkins. How are you going to be a former pitching coach and have a pitching coach and not be able to detect that there was something wrong with one of your top pitching prospects. I’m talking about Amir Garrett last year. How do you not know that there is a problem with him after a hot start and his velocity sitting 92 – 96 and then after a bad decision to send Garrett down for service time reasons , he comes back throwing 90 – 92 mph. Now you would think that a so called top notch pitching coach could figure out that something is wrong and then after being diagnosed with a hip injury and have it fixed , Garrett comes out hot during Spring Training and neither Price of Jenkins can figure out that Garrett was one of their best options for the rotation and not only that but misuse him in the bullpen. That’s how you get fired on your day off.

  60. Dusty Baker faxed in his resume a few minutes ago….

    • Of course he faxed it in. This franchise is in analogue while the rest of the league has moved to digital.

  61. Was it a good move getting rid of Price?
    I’m not sure but I do know FOR SURE they need to FIRE Williams who seems to have zero knowledge of BB. Castellini needs to sell the team before attendance drops to all time lows. Nothing will change until then

    The Red’s are horrible. They have made so many terrible deals such as “no hit” Bailey and Messorasco to name a few.

  62. The Reds have played 1/9 of the season and Votto, Scooter, Winker, and Schebler have combined for 1 hr. Price had nothing to do with that.

    Taillon from Pittsburgh threw a 1 hitter (or 2?) vs the Reds. Philly knocked him out in the 2nd inning tonite. They have a couple of young guys that look like future stars in Hoskins and Kingery. A couple of the other younger guys are progressing in Cesar Hernandez and Herrera. They added a couple of vets from winning organizations in Arrieta and Santana. Why couldn’t the Reds put something together like that? I don’t get it?

    • This was not the year that they were going to spend for big-name veterans. It was supposed to be after this current season, when most of the “sorting” is over and you know what you have and what you still need. Hopefully it still develops that way, but things will have to change pretty dramatically.

  63. I believe Tom hit the nail on the head,( in comments above). I would hope that this firing would change the way the players on this team approach their jobs. It is no longer ok to loose. Some of these players have never experienced winning in the Major Leagues. They need to learn how to win. The culture has to change!

  64. I thought Price’s poor decisions and the numbers should’ve gotten him fired. That said, I doubt Williams looks at the numbers (outside of 3-15). Then a good analogy hit me:

    The numbers should’ve gotten Price but, in reality, this year’s team needed a scapegoat like last year’s needed a donkey. That’s how this group of horse’s asses decides which animals are more equal than the others. Riggleman is the next lamb being led to slaughter and we might even someday sacrifice sacred cow Barry Larkin. I’m pretty tired of this franchise’s bull…

    • Price is not solely to blame, but, he made poor decisions that were bound to eventually catch up with him.

      Riggleman is clearly not the answer.

      Votto is off to a terrible start, which is not helping, but, the Reds have been awful even with a great Votto.

      4 players on the Reds that have the most PA’s have created

      OBP .267
      wCR+ 62
      ISO .103

      WAR -0.4

      These 4 players are just not players that can contribute to a winning team, maybe 1 of the 8.

  65. Bryan Price is out as the Reds manager with Jim Riggleman named as the interim manager. Dick Williams states that an extensive search for the next manager will be completed, but probably not until the end of the season.

    “But the point is we will be doing a thorough and exhaustive search process to identify the full-time manager. We have good internal candidates, but it will be a process we will undergo. It makes more sense to do that towards the end of the season because any external candidates, for the most part, are not going to be available until then.” per Dick Williams as reported by Mark Sheldon.

    Unless DW intends to pursue a current MLB manager as the new manager for the Reds, I fail to see the necessity for delaying the manager search until the end of the season. Determining interest and even interviewing external candidates from current MLB coaches, minor league managers or MLB front office personel could be reasonably accomplished without disrupting current responsibilities for the Reds or other organizations. I find it hard to believe that other organizations would block contact for MLB coaches, minor league managers or front office personel to pursue a MLB manager opportunity as long as the Reds used care and respect to avoid disruption of current responsibilities. Compiling an internal search list for possible candidates would not even require direct contact and could be completed immediately. I would be stunned if such efforts had not already begun and could easily be escalated and prioritized now that Bryan Price has been advised and removed from his responsibilities.

    Waiting until the end of the season loses the opportunity for the new manager to get settled and familiar with the current roster and players in the organization. It allows the manager an opportuntiy to establish expectations and build relationships. I allows the new manager an opportunity to become comfortable with the player’s capability and contribution while experimenting with the best way to utilize those capabilities and contributions. It allows the relationship between the GM and manager to go through the initial adjustment process. This would be done while completing the sorting within the 25-man and 40-man rosters in preparation for the 2019 season. It allows the new manager feedback on the needs withing the 25-man and 40-man rosters going into the 2018 trade deadline and the 2018/2019 off season in preparation for the 2019 season.

    The two things that couldn’t be accomplished by making an early decision during the 2018 season would be (1) the hiring the candidate the Reds have already identified as the individual they want but would not be able to pursue until after the 2018 regular season is completed or (2) the hiring of the coaching staff for the 2019 season. If the 1st possibility is the reason for delaying the process and decision, then the process and decision will not be as ‘thorough and exhaustive’ as DW wants fans to believe. The 2nd possibility should be completely inconsequential to the process and decision.

    There just isn’t a good reason to wait until the end of the season and there are a lot of good reasons to not wait. Of course that means the Reds front office management group would have to work on and accomplish multiple task simultaneously and they haven’t proved to be very effective in doing that in the past without bumbling everything.

    • Here, here. Well said. Well said.
      What was your take on Williams’s statement of when he had to tell Bryan Price and Mack Jenkins they were being fired?
      “Walt and I sat down with Bryan and Mack last night to inform them…”
      That statement sent an uneasy shudder throughout my body as I had to choke back the vomit.
      When is Jocketty going to go into full retirement? His influences are still very evident within the Reds front office. It is a sickening display of ineptitude within the Reds ownership and front office group.
      The Castellini Cartel. Killing the Cincinnati Reds one season at a time.

  66. Latest Fangraphs Mock Draft has the Reds taking a High School Centerfielder. Sounds like the Reds might what the 2B from Oregon State, but, might be gone by the 5th pick.

  67. From the Enquirer: https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2018/04/20/cardinals-way-way-cincinnati-reds-would-like-go/535874002/

    Somebody tell Walt, that doing things the Cardinal way, does not mean signing Cardinal castoffs.

  68. I know I will get beat up on this one but anyone thought about Eric Wedge. Only 50 years old and had a .478 winning percentage in 10 seasons. He has had very young rebuilding teams and got them to perform. Has good relationship with younger players.

  69. MLB has an article up about 7 candidates ready to become managers. While I think it is too soon for Beltran, I did like what I read about this guy:

    Joe Espada (Astros’ bench coach)
    The Astros’ bench coach spent three years on Girardi’s staff with the Yankees from 2015-17, though he wasn’t given an opportunity to interview for New York’s managerial job after Girardi was not brought back. Espada also spent a year working in Cashman’s front office as a pro scout.

    Prior to joining the Yankees, Espada spent eight years with the Marlins’ organization, the last four (2010-13) as the team’s third-base coach. Having worked with the Yanks and Astros, the 42-year-old is well-versed in analytics, a plus for any potential managerial candidate.

    Espada has also managed in the Puerto Rican Winter League and has served as Puerto Rico’s third-base coach in both the 2013 and ’17 World Baseball Classic.

    https://www.mlb.com/news/here-are-some-future-mlb-managerial-candidates/c-272950502

  70. Firing Price? Hiring Riggleman?Sorting through Larkin, Girardi, etc. for the next Reds manager? All just tall weeds for Williams, Joketty, & Castellini to hide in. This roster is a disaster, 4th year into a rebuild or 1st year into a rebuild. The Reds cannot compete this year OR next. Don’t fool yourself, they have quite a ways to go just to be mediocre. Ah, but we got our pound of flesh. Price has been summarily canned for crimes against the proper way to play baseball in Cincy. That’ll fix it.

  71. If the FO and ownership apply the same skills to the manager search as they have to players recently, I can imagine what they will come up with—an aging old school veteran who can no longer manage.
    “This press conference is to announce the new manager for the Reds, Pete Rose! (someone steps up to the mic and whispers to the speaker who mumbles “banned from baseball?….Well we are happy to announce that our search is going very well for the next Reds manager. More news later as we apply our laser focus and narrow our search down.”
    As everyone leaves the stage we hear the FO and owners mumble “I wonder if Casey Stengel would be interested?”

  72. I said it earlier this year but our offense has way to many holes and this team did nothing to fill them.We will continue to talk about low coring losses until Billy and Peraza set down and are replaced by Senzel at short and Schebler in center.Don’t know how they will do defensively but they will hit better then the guys they replaced.Also need to dfa those two vet infielders and keep Blandino and bring up Dixon.Go young.

    • James, I saw someone report that C. Trent Rosecrans had an interview with Pat Kelly, the former Louisville manager who is now up as Riggleman’s bench coach. According to the report (I did not read the story myself), Kelly told Rosecrans that Senzel is definitely not a major league shortstop. Maybe someone who read the article itself can provide some additional clarity and-or context.

      • I really hope Suarez gets another look at SS when he comes back from his injury. I really feel like his new defensive prowess at 3B will translate back to his old position. If Suarez can handle short, it solves A LOT of problems for this team going forward.

      • ” it’s like shortstop. He played there all spring. He’s not a major league shortstop, but he could help you there
        a game or two.”

        The context was saying how good he is and very complimentary of how advanced he is at every aspect of the game.

        Tuesday interview. He said he’s comfort able at third but they want get him time at 2b and seemed to say he would half at both. That led me to believe Suarez was still in play for SS.

  73. It’s rapidly approaching time for the proverbial “fire sale” Why not?

    • “Fire sale”? What do the Reds have that any other team would be interested in?

      • This is true. I was thinking how hard restarting the rebuild would be. The Reds don’t have lots of assets. Iglesias, Barnhart and Suarez are the only players with value that aren’t pre-arb.

  74. We now have 2 old infielders, an old manager h an old announcer.

  75. I will be a fan again when the mafia sells the team

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About Chad Dotson

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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