Titanic Struggle Recap

Reds lose series opener to Cardinals in extra innings

After being swept by the Cubs this weekend, the St. Louis Cardinals were six games out of first place in the NL Central, with no realistic shot at the Wild Card. Their manager Mike Matheny tonight was yanking pitchers and playing match-ups with a must-win sense of urgency. His perseverance paid off.

With the loss tonight, the Reds are 9-8 against St. Louis this year and need at least one win against them this week to win the season series. The Reds had won 7 in a row at GABP before tonight’s loss.

Cincinnati Reds 7  St. Louis Cardinals 8 || Box || Play Log || Statcast

Jackson Stephens (23) made his second start of the season for the Reds. He retired the first ten Cardinals he faced. Then he gave up five straight hits including home runs by Yadi Molina and Paul DeJong, resulting in 5 runs.

Cody Reed pitched the 5th. He gave up two walks after recording two outs, then got the last out on a harmless fly. Ariel Hernandez retired the side in the 6th and the first batter in the 7th before he was relieved. Wandy Peralta came on to pitch for the first time in more than two weeks and retired the two Cardinals hitters he faced.

The only blemish on an otherwise strong night for the bullpen came in the 8th when Kevin Shackelford gave up a home run – just over the right center field fence, a real GABP special – to the first batter he faced. The Michael Lorenzen Gun Show entered the game in the 9th, retiring the side in order in 10 pitches. Lorenzen made a nice play at first base on a rainbow throw by Joey Votto on a ground ball toward second base.

Tim Adleman pitched the 10th. After reaching an 0-2 count on Kolten Wong, the first batter, he hit Wong on an errant breaking ball. Wong stole second and scored on a one-out double down the first base line by Dexter Fowler. Adleman (29) gave up another walk, a single and a second run. Adleman ended with an ERA of 5.52 and an FIP of 5.84. Sigh.

/I’m not going to question Bryan Price in a meaningless game. I’m not going to question Bryan Price in a meaningless game. I’m not going to question Bryan Price in a meaningless game. But he coulda left Lorenzen in for a second inning./

Jesse Winker led off the game with a double to left center. He singled up the middle in his second at bat. Winker is batting .283/.372/.505 and scored twice. That’s a real leadoff hitter’s batting line.

Joey Votto drove in the Reds first run on a single up the middle in the 1st. Zack Cozart hit a laser into the left field bleachers for home run #23. It was his fourth homer in the past seven games. Jesse Winker scored ahead of him.

In the bottom of the 6th, Votto led off with a walk. Scooter Gennett followed with an opposite field double. Adam Duvall and Scott Schebler followed with sacrifice flies, scoring Votto and Gennett to give the good guys a 6-5 lead. Gennett, after swinging at ball four, ball five and ball six, hit a solo, front-row homer in the bottom of the 10th, his 26th.

Patrick Kivlehan played 3B and made a nice play in the 1st inning and another one in the 9th. The Reds put together an Adam Duvall walk, Scott Schebler single and Kivlehan sacrifice fly to deep left center for their second run. Kivlehan did make a couple wild throws to first base on which Joey Votto had to made terrific plays to get an out.

Anthony DeSclafani is in Arizona at the instructional league. He pitched 2-inning simulated game last Wednesday, throwing 75 pitches between the bullpen and warmup pitches. In early August, DeSclafani left a rehab start for Dayton after one inning citing the dreaded “forearm stiffness.” An MRI the next day revealed elbow inflammation, but no structural damage to the all-important ulnar collateral ligament he’d strained back in spring training. A second opinion confirmed the diagnosis.

Alex Gordon of the Kansas City Royals hit a homer tonight that was number 5,694 of the MLB season. It shattered the single season record set in PED-stuffed 2001. Seems like about 5,000 of those were either hit by the Reds or given up by Reds pitching.

53 thoughts on “Reds lose series opener to Cardinals in extra innings

  1. What is frustrating about this team, and has been since Dusty Baker’s days, is that all the games seem meaningless. Every game seems like it doesn’t really matter, since there will be another one tomorrow. Here was a chance to ruin the Cardinals’ season and win the season series, and we get Shackelford and Adleman. I turned it off as soon as Fowler hit that homer. Pryce didn’t care about winning this game, and so it was hard for me to care.

    • Price might care but if you continually lose 90 year in, year out what incentive does he have to improve if he keeps getting paid millions to lose 90 more the next season.

  2. I would have liked to have seen Price make an honest effort to win the game.

    In addition to some of his pitching choices, he might have used a pinch runner for Cozart in the 9th. Ervin was available by my reckoning (the result of being by passed in favor of Peraza as the PH to open the 9th, a somewhat curious choice in its own right).

    As it was, the Cards knew Cozart wasn’t going to try to steal a base and Votto was going to have to hit a HR to beat them. Would have been nice to have turned up the leverage on them a bit; and maybe gotten Joey a pitch to hit.

    Yes in the end it was a meaningless game (unless of course the Reds end up with a better draft slot by one game) but how do you teach the kids to win if you don’t try in a game like this?

    • That’s why he should not been extended, there’s a skillset in those managers that always look to win games utilizing all available resources, which seems he doesn’t have it.

    • Or better yet to have pinch hit Ervin in the 9’th spot and then pinch run Peraza for Cozart. Sigh!

    • Didn’t see the game, but the box score shows that Cozart stole a base in 3rd. Lightning probably wouldn’t strike twice, I guess.

      • I thought it was fielder indifference as they did not hold him on, but over ruled based on the situation

  3. And to think we got this to look forward to next year,if price ever really needed to win a series,it’s this one,cards have own reds last several years and besides hating them,he just needs to prove he can play with division elite,but alas he not held accountable by present ownership,sad to cause this team can do so much better

    • Winker has a better chance of getting on base in the first place as an OBP type guy and he’s a better natural hitter than Hamilton. But I realize Price will be the manager come April 2018.

    • If Billy is in CF and Winker is in RF, I don’t think Winker will lead off if it is Price’s decision. He’s shown this year that he doesn’t have any clue about offense or offensive principles. Billy is fast, therefore, he leads off. There’s no thought with Price. It’s dogmatic adherence to old-school tenets.

      • I think it is most important to have a high OBP guy immediately in front of Votto versus an easier out whoever that might be and regardless of the slot numbers. Then I would put a high OBP guy immediately after JV. Agree it is wasteful to give Hamilton the most chances per game to make an out but not as important as making sure JV is sandwiched between 2 high OBP guys being that as 1/2/3 or 2/3/4.

  4. Need to really have a short leash on Adelman next year….Just like Cingrani, and Wood. Need to DFA him, if no improvement is there!

    • I don’t think he’ll be around next year, too many candidates to fill the 12/13 spots in the pitching staff, specially if Disco and Finnegan return from injuries.

      • Adleman has been disappointing this season, no doubt. Of course he hadn’t pitched in 12 days. That’s always pointed out if your name is Reed or Stephenson but not Adleman. Tim probably will be dfaed by the Reds & then find a modest career with a team that can properly utilize his skills.

        • He doesn’t get any love compared to others because he is 29 and has got 43 starts over the last two years with an era of 5.He is a guy that will give you 4 or 5 innings and the same number of runs more times then not.He is what he is but he has got opportunities while others have not as you mentioned.He will show up some where as a spot starter or a long man or as minor league depth.Good guy to have on your roster.I actually expected him in after Stevens was removed but Price went to Wojo.Tim did not lose the game because he took the ball.The game was lost because Price has better options and didn’t use them.

        • Bouwills yes it most def was stupid for Price to use Adleman after such a long period of inactivity setting Adleman up for failure, just as Price set up Reed and Stephenson for failure early in the season.

          One can only guess given Price’s simpleton mindset he thought ‘oh, the game could go long into extra innings, I’ll put in Adleman in case it takes four or five innings before one of us scores a run’, instead of using his best pitcher on the roster who kept the bench nice and warm waiting for a ‘save’ situation.

    • Adleman has pitched his way out of contention, the only way is if half the staff succumbs to injuries, like that will ever happen

  5. Matheny is trying to win and Price is not.He could have used Lorenzen for two and where was Iggy for two.The game didn’t mean anything to him even when it was right there to be won.In the ninth Joey would have had to homer for Cozy to score as was mentioned above.To many right things to do and he did none of them.More is on the way next year.

    • I do not get Shakleford in the 8th, I guess he has done a great job getting ERA down below 6 over the past few weeks when it was hovering around double digits since his call up. Where are going to find 29 yo relief pitcher to pitch slightly below replacement level next season, so I guess you got to see what you have.

      • He’s been using Shackleford in high-leverage situations lately. I’m ok with that. Against the Cards who are technically still in the hunt though, I question his use of Shackelford and not Lorenzen there. The only thing I can think of is that Iglesias was unavailable and everyone moved up a spot because of it.

    • When you haven’t pitched for 12 days, it’s unlikely you are going to be effective.

      • Indeed. Of course that’s September baseball for middle relievers. TA is also the victim (one of many) of this year’s baseball. Last year’s deep flyout are this year’s HRs.

      • It doesn’t help but I’m not sure I would go so far as to say it’s “unlikely” he would get hitters out. I think the more likely reason is that he’s just not very good and he tends to have outings like this.

        • Adleman has little to no talent. The mystery is how was he somewhat serviceable last year? He will most likely join the recent Reds players to go from Cincy to his couch (or deli in his case), or Japan if he wants to continue. Schumaker, Boesch, Ohlendorf, Arroyo, Adleman, etc, etc. Not a good sign when the Reds are the last major league job they can get. Its not been a bad gig for Adleman though if its over. He made some life changing money!

          • Lets add SImon, Marquis, and Kevin Gregg to that glorious list. Renteria and Cabrera as well. Reds to couch like a Nicholas Cage movie….straight to video

          • Of course you realize that “no talent” Tim will lead this pitching staff in strikeouts for the 2017 season.

      • By your reasoning Jazzmanbbfan it is Price’s fault for poor resource usage. And yes it was.

  6. Interesting point by Chris Welsh on Reed and the way he takes the ball behind his back in his delivery—too much lateral rotation. Big red flag imo in terms of inhibiting his ability to have command. In layman’s terms, Don Cooper (ChiSox pitching coach) says you should rotate like a ferris wheel and not a merry-go-round. I’ve been to many a coaching clinic where he’s a speaker—funny, smart guy.

    All that said, Reed’s stuff will play. He’s a bit like Randy Johnson in that his pitches seem to come from first base. That sweeping slider will be devastating to lefties and the splits bear that out. When he figures out how to sequence vs. righties he’ll really take off. Currently he has 14 walks to 9 K’s vs. them.

    • I agree…Welsh and you made good points. Maybe he should study Randy Johnson tapes and copy that motion. Randy wasn’t good for a long time until he figured it out.

  7. Adelman will be DFA’d in October and the Reds will roll the dice that he doesn’t get claimed. If he makes it through waivers he’ll be assigned to Louisville. The Reds and Price like Adelman and will at the very least keep him at AAA. The Reds will need his 40-man roster spot to protect a prospect from the Rule V draft.
    It was good to hear Chris Welsh talk about Cody Reed and the changes he has had to make in his delivery. He broke down his delivery with some interesting observations. The way Reed drops his ball hand way down low behind his back on his delivery Welsh noted that it can have a tendency to make Reed throw the ball up in the strike zone. Reed has work to do but is improving. The two BB’s again last night are frustrating, but no harm came from it. The biggest nugget Welsh shared was that he likes to talk to baseball people and go right to the source and he spoke to some Louisville coaches and a couple of catchers about Reed. Welsh said they all said the same thing about Reed, “his stuff is hard to hit.” If Reed can get these new pitching mechanics down and gets his pitch locations under control he is going to be a good MLB pitcher. Whether that will be as a starter or a back end of bullpen reliever remains to be seen. Nonetheless, that was a very encouraging note on Reed from Welsh.

  8. Anyone else read the article yesterday on reds.com about Billy Hamilton chomping at the bit to return even though he hasn’t been cleared to swing a bat? I think he might feel he’s about to get ‘Pipped’.

    I don’t know what he’s worried about, with Price managing he should feel safe as a kitten.

    • Why does he need to swing the bat. He can just bunt 100 % of the time instead of 57%

    • Reds TV was surprisingly honest in pointing out that BHam has a personal stake in getting back because of the impact it could have on his arbitration leverage.
      I’m not sure him getting back for a handful of games does that much to kick the narrative that he can’t stay on the field for a full season; but, if he wins the stolen base crown and makes a play or two to help his Gold Glove standing, I can see their point having merit.

      • Inciarte got hurt last night, he might miss some time. So this will aid his Gold Glove chances

  9. I am fairly confident that Billy Hamilton (or Phillip Ervin) would have caught Fowler’s game-tying homer. Schebler got there in plenty of time, but he jammed his shoulder up against the wall as he jumped, and he therefore couldn’t extend for the ball. For all of the sturm and drang about Hamilton’s hitting issues, Hamilton makes that catch, and the Reds win that game.

    As has been pointed out, fumble-bum plays in the infield usually cost one base or one out, but fumble-bum plays by outfielders can cause much more damage. Can Schebler play center field in a pinch? Yes, but he would be a big drop from Hamilton and even Ervin if he had to do it every day. I think the Reds would lose much, much more defensively in centerfield without Hamilton than they would gain offensively with a bigger bat there, especially against RH pitching.

    Kivlehan looked awful to me at third. He made a handsy play or two, but his footwork was a disaster, which caused errant throws, and Votto had to bail him out at least twice. I like Kivlehan and his story, but I doubt he is on the team next year.

    • Yes Billy would have saved that run, but if you start him, you lose both runs scored by Winker, and you still lose the game.

      A smart manager would have Winkers runs, and would have brought Billy in to run for Cozart and be a defensive replacement in the 9th (when he is available)

      Maybe we see that yet this year: Billy pitch running, stealing and defensive replacement. That is his value to this team until he learns to hit.

      For Billy, scrap the bunting and hit from your strong side period.

      • If Billy was batting 9th, Winker still scores those two runs.
        Billy’s OBP leading off the game is .359. He lead the majors in runs scored in the 1st inning before the DL….
        Billy’s OBP when leading off any inning is also .359 (which Winker did twice) ….so to say they wouldn’t have scored those 2 runs is just silly hearsay.

        There have been plenty of games that Billy got on in the 1st, got to 3rd, with 0 or 1 outs only to be stranded. Scoring runs only happens when the people behind you drive you in.

        Billy is still on the DL, so he couldn’t be used to run for Cozart last night.

      • My point was that playing a lousy defensive center fielder is not an option, and certainly not with a young pitching staff. There are plenty of ABs available for Duvall, Hamilton, Schebler and Winker, and even Ervin, depending on who is pitching and who they are playing. But playing a lousy defensive center fielder is not a solution.

        Nor would be having a lousy defensive shortstop, which in my opinion would result if Suarez is moved to shortstop to accommodate Senzel.

        • Pretty much where I’m at on that… I think Suarez may be able to do it but I’d be really hesitant to move him from 3B.

      • It’s not Winker who should sit, it’s either Schebler or Duvall. Winker is a full time starter on most good teams. Duvall starts on some good teams, for 120 or so starts a year. Schebler starts maybe 60 games a year on an average team.

      • I guess the question is “Which side is Hamilton’s strong side?” He was drafted as and is naturally a RH hitter. Up until the last 2 years, his splits actually suggested that he may still be a better RH hitter than LH hitter. Also, it’s very unlikely that Hamilton has ever faced a LHP as a LH hitter. I think he may actually be worse than as a RH hitter against a LHP. He seems to have some offensive value the last 2 seasons against RHP. The answer would probably be a platoon if the Reds believed in such things and if there was someone who could play good enough defense in CF to start against LHP. That guy may be Ervin but I’m not so sure. I’ve been unimpressed with his work in the OF. The Reds also seem very averse to platooning players based on handedness. It’s annoying.

  10. If I had a post-game question for Price while he was doing his interview, it would have been “Why not Iglesias at home in a tie game in the 9th after an off day? Was he unavailable?” Actually that’s 2 questions. The fact that he didn’t use him in the 9th in a tie game tells me that Iglesias was either sick, is injured, or was otherwise not available.

  11. Steve, not only did Votto make a terrible rainbow throw which Lorenzen did well to bail him out, Votto struck out twice with runners on base. Votto did well at the plate early but didn’t come through when it counted in the end. A bad day by Votto’s standards. He looked like he was trying too hard to do something instead of focusing on bein in the moment.

    He often throws early as if the ball is a hot potato, instead of waiting for the pitcher to get a little closer to the bag or taking a sidestep to get a better angle on a throw to second base.

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