2017 Reds / 2018 Reds

The Case For Keeping Bryan Price

I’m not sure why I wanted to wade into this particular pool, but here we are:

You’ve probably heard by now the news that Bryan Price will return as Reds manager in 2018. If you’re like most Reds fans out there—or at least, the portion of Reds fans who care enough about the club to read baseball think-pieces on the interwebs—you’ve probably also expressed an opinion about that news.

I don’t know what the latest polling says, but if my twitter feed is any indication, lots of Reds fans are highly upset that Price will remain in charge of the hometown nine next year. Irrationally angery, in some instances. It’s really astounding to see.

Here’s an amalgam of the most common sentiments about Price returning: “Third straight year in last place! FYRE PRYCE!!!”

To which I say: meh. I can’t get worked up about it. Seems to me the Reds made a reasonable decision. Of course, if the club had decided to part ways with their manager, I wouldn’t have lost any sleep over that, either. Price hasn’t exactly distinguished himself, but on the other hand, I’m not sure that the evidence is there to justify firing the guy.

Read the rest over at Cincinnati Magazine…then return here to let me know how wrong I am.

68 thoughts on “The Case For Keeping Bryan Price

  1. The reds are one mega-trade, a few tweaks, and an increased budget away from being a very good baseball team capable if winning 90 games in 2018.

    You are wrong because Luis Castillo has changed the course of this rebuild since July.. The young pitching development since july has changed .

    Price doesn’t value on base percentage. He doesn’t treat young players well either. His lineup construction is terrible. He is not the manager on the next good Reds team….and things have changed since the Reds prematurely picked his option up in July.

    • I really am confused by the Price doesn’t treat young players well.
      Last I looked Duvall, Schebler, and Hamilton were all young players.

      I guess your suggesting that Price should sit one of them to let Ervin play and see what he has to offer. First let me say many a scout have said that basing judgment’s on players who come up and perform well in Sept. call ups is a recipe for disaster. Ervin has not exactly blown through the Minor leagues. I also have to believe that the people in the reds organization have seen him play many times since drafting him which should carry more weight then a few games in Sept. Keep in mind then a few of those games will be against teams who have also expanned their rosters.

      For those suggesting that Peraza should play everyday my thinking is he has been traded by two organizations. My guess is they didn’t like his approach anymore then the reds did. After a half of a season this year he was benched in favor of Scooter Gennett who is having a career year and is still a young player. Since his benching he has been better. Cozart is entering his free agent season and having his best year. Sitting either Cozart or Gennett which could cost them millions in negotiations after the season is not going to make a good working environment. Good luck getting players to play for you if you manage like that.

      • 1.) Cody Reed pitched once in 11 days in May and went a week without pitching. He had to go to Bryan price after a week and ask what can I do?
        2.) Robert Stephenson went 8 days without pitching …buried in the bullpen.
        3.) Jesse Winker made the AAA allstar team and did everything asked of him…including 4 HR in 80 plate appearance….( Should have been 5) . He sat 6 days without playing.
        4.) Gennett earned his spot but at times Cozart is jogging the bases with a chronically injured quad. Peraza should play more.

        Price buried young pitchers in the bullpen who needed to pitch while aging veterans were putting together the worst rotation in baseball….giving up home runs at record paces.

        • You are kidding right? Reed sat because he was terrible. That is what happens when you are the worst pitcher on the staff, not named Arroyo. Reed confirmed that by going to AAA and pitching just as bad. Stephens couldn’t throw strikes. Price demanded he go down and work on things. Stephenson did, and then he was called up, and has been outstanding since. Not sure what your problem is with Price on that front. In fact, one could argue Price’s handling of Stephenson might be what finally got him going well. Where did you want Winker to play? You don’t bench guys who are your starters who are doing well (Schebler/Duval). Schebler doesn’t play CF that well, and Winker doesn’t play it at all. When Schebler was injured, Winker got plenty of playing time, and then he got hurt. Peraza got every opportunity in the world, and was horrible, yet you complain that he still should play more. Let’s be honest. You just don’t like Price.

          • Playing Duvall everyday has seen his average go down 20 points in the last 5-6 weeks. Surely a manager could give him a day off every 4-5 games.

            Billy has been so bad at the plate that he needs to sit more often to learn the game, but he plays every day. You know the cubs play a lot of guys out of position, and yes they may get burned occasionally on defense but overall, they are doing ok. and the bench players love to play for Maddon. and guys on their bench deliver when pinch hitting. Brian Price has done Billy a dis-service by hitting him leadoff and giving him the impression that he could bunt. Price encourages him to bunt, Billy can’t bunt and the manager hasn’t taught him how or brought in the right resource to get him to bunt correctly like a college player. He didn’t suggest Billy should give up switch hitting. for all of Ervin’s grinding through the minor leagues, he does get on base.

            Cozart should be playing at least a game a day less. again, Maddon would spell him with Suarez. And if you played Suarez at SS sometime this year, you could look at the potential of him playing there in 2018 when Cozart might be gone.

            Price should get credit with young pitching. But I am not sure what credit he should get for Tony Cingrani. Too bad he did not make a better decision with Lorenzen this year when he desperately needed starters. His charge this year was to sort the pitching staff and he didn’t.

            I give him a c- overall. I like Price and was glad that they brought him back this year. but he did not do anything to suggest that he deserved another year. He does get along with Joey apparently and that is worth something. Star players can get a manager fired very quickly.

  2. I agree that there are reasons to keep Price, and there are worse managers in baseball (and very, very few excellent ones). This team has kept playing and developing – that doesn’t happen under many managers when the losing piles up and the days of August grind everyone down. Also, his hitting coaches seem to be the most effective that I can remember on a Reds team; the significant development in both plate approach and swing by players has been great fun to observe.

    Overall, though, my initial reaction to the news of Price’s retention was disappointment. I have two main concerns –

    First, the philosophies behind his moves (e.g. lineup construction) seem flawed and antiquated. If he had said he was batting Billy Hamilton 1st because he saw Billy’s success in the first inning, or because he thought that leaving him in the leadoff spot gave him the best opportunity to develop into the hitter the Reds want him to be, I could be comfortable with it. I might disagree, but at least the underlying philosophy is sound. Articulating a philosophy that the team overall is scoring plenty, so he is not thinking about batting Billy anywhere else, or talking about the mayhem caused by Billy’s speed while ignoring his sub-.300 OBP is just poor thinking that I am hoping is not embraced by the organization. Another reason Price could say such things is to hide his real reasons for doing the things he does, perhaps in order to hide strategies from opponents or to protect the confidentiality of his conversations with players regarding their status, or to simply deflect and take heat himself to reduce pressure on players. If these are indeed the reasons, then he needs to grow in the ability to communicate publicly without being disingenuous, which leads me to my second major concern.

    Brian Price doesn’t come across as an effective top leader. A great pitching coach (and probably great at some other aspects of coaching), yes, but not the top guy. He has not been able to articulate a vision or philosophy and match it with his behavior and decisions.

    Perhaps he is learning and growing, and DW has seen this progress in his manager. Perhaps DW knows that finding a truly excellent manager is difficult and he likes the chances of Brian Price growing into the role. Whatever the case, I sure hope this happens. Go, Reds!

  3. In (mild) defense of Price, I feel like the main complaint levied against him is in regards to his lineup construction. Everyone knows lineup construction, while important, is only worth maybe a couple of wins per year. Obviously that is a couple of wins BP is just throwing away which is inexcusable, but it’s not like the Reds were ever going to be in contention.

    I’m not defending Price here because his inability or unwillingness to put out a more effective lineup on a daily basis is undoubtedly hurting the team, but let’s not act like it made the difference between the Reds current win total and the Dodgers.

    • I would be happy to get an explanation from Price on how he choices the line up. Understanding his reasons would really help.

    • The lineup issue is not the reason he should not be retained, because, as you said, it doesn’t really matter in the long run of a whole season. However, it is the simple fact that Price seems to not be taking every possible advantage he can be by making blatanly poor lineups. It just makes you wonder what else he does or does not do that could be done better. And the idea that if he really believes “chaos” is more important than OBP, than what else does he believe and how does that affect the team?

      • I feel he does double switches that often make little sense, other than taking a better play out of the game. The pitcher often does not return when his spot would have come up, hence making the switch pointless. This is another glaring example like the bunting and line ups where he doesn’t look for advantages and makes moves just to make them by some out dated book

  4. I agree that there are very few excellent managers out there. It would be very difficult for the Reds to hire one away from another team, and many of the “excellent” managers out there have been fired by other teams but learned how to manage over the years either by being given chance to manage or watching other managers.

    My issues with Price is pretty much the same as most lineup construction. I understand his loyalty to his players, without that it would be hard to get players to play for you. But to continually insist that a low OBP guy bat leadoff just because he is fast is just stubbornness and sticking to old school philosophy. The other issue I have is with his constant use of the sacrifice bunt. I understand having the pitcher bunt to move a runner to second. I do not understand sacrificing an out to move a runner from second to third. Most of the time a runner can score from second on a hit to the outfield. Even if he doesn’t he can move to third without the loss of an out, or even a ground out to the right side of the infield will move him over, you still lose the out but at least you are not giving them away.

    I do believe that Price could make better use of players that are up from the minors and can do it without sacrificing a ton of At Bats for other players. Many have talked ad nauseum here on the idea of using four outfielders on a rotating basis. Yes it is hard to give up the power of Duval and Schebler but Duval is obviously worn down and Schebler even though he had a few really good ABs when he first came back needs to learn a little better pitch selection. Maybe sitting him occasionally would help that. I personally think that an good (not even excellent) manager could see that. I am not so concerned that Ervin hasn’t seen as much time as perhaps we think he should but Winker has just not been utilized as a top prospect should.

    I agree that the decision to bring Price back is sort of “meh” but it is also still disappointing.

    • Winker was really really impressive! Hopefully they can get him back asap and play him, but Price is more of an obstacle then an answer. Same thing w/Tyler Mahle! He should’ve been up long ago to learn on the job w/the Reds. Instead we sit thru Arroyo, Adleman, Bonilla, etc etc. Most of this is on DW too….Price wouldn’t be holding back guys that the front office wanted to see!

      • As far as determining when Mahle would be brought up, that’s not Price’s decision. When he was called up, he was put in to start right away, even if that seemed to be out of necessity. I’m am crossing my fingers that Winker will get regular, meaning almost every day, playing time once he comes off the DL.

  5. Once again, what astounds me is that the Reds did not do their due diligence and conduct a thorough search for a new manager before deciding Price was their man for next year.

    It’s like saying, ‘I’m not in love with my girlfriend, but she is okay looking and keeps a neat house. I think I’ll propose.”

    *facepalm*

    • Do we reallly know that the Reds didn’t consider other options before hiring Price for another season?

        • I’m “meh” on retaining Price but DW isn’t Jocketty and I find it within the realm of possibility that he did take a look at what other options for manager might be out there and decided that Price was the person at least for 2018. We don’t really know just how DW operates and how that is different from Jocketty but hopefully this winter will reveal a few things when decisions are made on players, e.g., trades, 40 man roster, etc.

        • Fair point, Sultan, though they may have considered other options for other personnel moves and not made that public.

  6. Call me a ‘tweener to on Price at this point. My initial opposition to him was that I did not believe someone who had been in a major position of authority during a meltdown such as the Reds went through late in 2013 could effectively ascend to the top spot surrounded by the personalities that had been parties to or at least observed the meltdown. Reference Mat Latos public revelations of an insider’s view of some of the chaos that went on.

    But the Reds went with Price; they’ve stuck with him; and now aside from Homer and Joey, there aren’t any guys around from back when. Add in that the new arrivals seem to like and enjoy playing for Price. Just maybe BP has learned how to organize and run a clubhouse during the interim.

    The other side of the coin is that Price seems wedded to a stale view of how to approach and run games. No need to iterate here about this. We read about this stuff everyday.

    Maybe in the end BP does turn out to be like Dusty. I just hope one of the additional steps of growth he experiences is to get a strong forward thinking game manager who understands OBP etc as his right hand person and let’s that guy call the shots on line up construction and the like.

    • He put his best setup man at the time (Lorenzen) into the Pirates game in the 3rd inning to kill a rally and it worked like a charm! Unfortunately, that was the 2nd week of the season. Its like hanging onto a lousy QB because he threw 1 beautiful long bomb for a touchdown.

        • Am I wrong, or did I hear (probably Brewers’ broadcast team) that the Reds have had more multi-inning relief appearances this year than any other team? I keep going back to the idea that we don’t know the players and that Price and his staff do, and that this may account for some decisions that we find unfathomable, considered, as they are, in the abstract. Lots of very smart people at RLN who know a great deal about baseball, but none of us, as far as I know, knows the players and their quirks and foibles.

          • Don’t look past all the multiple long relief efforts when starters were flaming out short of 5 full innings. That probably skews the takeaway conclusion of the underlying stat.

    • I am in that tweeter camp on Price. As I already stated above, there are several reasons not to like Price’s approach, but then I also realize that while I say I would do such and such, that many of those decisions are not made by one person. Like the decision of when to bring up a pitcher or player. And although many of us have cringed at watching the likes of Arroyo, Adleman and even Feldman who knows that leaving the young guys like Castillo, Romano and Mahle in the minors for much of the season is why they are pitching so well now. I think it certainly helped Stephenson. And who knows that they hadn’t already noticed an issue with Garrett’s delivery that predated his issues in the MLB and minors this year. I wished that Winker could play every day in the MLB but we simply don’t know. Giving the benefit of the doubt is very difficult especially in regards to something that we cherish as much as winning Reds baseball but sometimes we just need to do just that.

  7. Now that Bryan Price has been brought back for another season my reaction is also ‘meh’ although I do look forward to following the Reds emerging team. As regards an experienced, successful manager for the Reds in the future, let’s not forget that Sparky Anderson was unknown and not ML experienced when he was hired in 1970. Sometimes, as in life, you have to take a chance.

    • Didn’t Sparky manage in the minors – manage teams, not just position coach, especially pitching, which is so narrow in focus.

  8. Chad, the whole point is this: Who you would pick to replace Price? If the front office is going to actually look for someone with, for example, fresher ideas about lineup construction/flexibility and bullpen usage, I’m sure that guy is out there. And the sooner you get that person in place, the better. Maybe he takes some lumps during the growing pains, but at least he is getting the chance to familiarize himself with the players and the organization, and when it’s contending time, he’s already here. … It’s the team’s disinterest in doing something like this that bothers me. …

    Maybe the Reds have an average manager right now, and maybe the Reds are OK with that. But why would they be? Not taking a step backward is not the same as taking a step forward.

    One of the comments above said maybe Price’s lineups might cost the Reds a few games, but who cares, we’re not contending anyway. OK, but what if we’re actually contending next year. Are we still as willing to give away those few games then?

    • Exactly! And there are plenty of people who are more forward thinking than Price/Baker clone, not just within the realm of baseball. Leave the coaches for the coaching of pitching mechanics, swing planes, defensive shifts, etc. Find a strategist, a chess player or physicist – with a baseball background is a plus but not necessary – to make optimal decisions as the manager. Or at the very least let the most astute player(s) like Votto or since Votto is spacey when he isn’t hitting Suarez and Barnhart manage the team and save the cost of a manager ‘that doesn’t win or lose ball games’.

  9. Well, they originally targeted 2018 as the return to contention. Not saying that it can’t or won’t happen next year but it doesn’t seem likely with Price being brought back. If the reds were serious about contending next year then they would be searching for the mgr they believe will take the club to that next level…right now! They would not have brought Price back. IF…by chance they think that Price is that mgr that can take them to the next level then someone needs to have their head(s) examined.

    • If the young pitchers continue to develop as they have been lately, the Reds could very well be in contention next year, Price or no Price.

      • If a manager matters for as few as five games (I think they can ADVERSELY affect far more, just not to the positive side vs a baseline avg mgr) having Price botch games via inefficiency will mean the difference between playoffs and sitting in October. Thanks to the wild cards, a few games MATTER. see the AL wild card playoff chase for reference.

  10. No matter what strengths he may have, and no matter what his rosters have looked like, I think it sends a terrible message for the organization to say, implicitly, it’s perfectly fine to let one your weakest hitters get more ABs than your best hitters, perfectly fine to use the same cleanup hitter in every game no matter what the situation is, perfectly fine to say you’ve stopped giving any real thought to the leadoff hitter, and perfectly fine to repeatedly bunt in situations where bunting hurts more than helps. The message, which I assume is received loud and clear by everyone, is “We don’t expect the best. Bad decisions aren’t something to worry about.” I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Price’s teams have made a ton of indefensibly stupid mistakes, and I assume we can expect more of the same going forward.

  11. The evidence to justify firing Price is the sorriest 4 year record in the history of the Reds. They lost 48 of 70 games in the middle of this season. Yes, I know, it is not his fault. Well, I disagree. He is to blame for many of the problems with the Reds over the past 4 years. In fact, he may well have lost the team. The Reds played very uninspired, almost scoreless baseball over the weekend right after it was announced that Price would be back in 2018. Bryan Price is not a World Series caliber manager and may very well be holding g back this team’s development. That is the case for firing him. There is almost no one who is in His corner. That is another reason to fire him. None of the players have expressed their support for him. That is another reason.

    • I’m not seeing a team that has quit. Not at all. They’ve had some games lately that didn’t showcase their good offense (nice euphemism?), but that happens to pretty much every team from time to time.

      • I also don’t believe the team has quit at all. It would have been easy to do so during those losing streaks but they didn’t and they haven’t now from what I’ve observed. Even the BRM had games where the offense didn’t show up.

      • Not seeing a team quit is NOT a positive. Nor is it a negative. But that is NOT value added.
        Simply put: have you seen ANY team quit on ANY manager?

        I have not. The San Francisco Giants expected to win 89 games this year have not quit. The Chicago White Sox who traded away more of their team than the Reds over the past three years have not quit. Even the HAPLESS Phillies with their bad news bears defense almost came back from an 11-3 deficit after taking an early lead on the Nats starting Scherzer did not quit.

        Just because a team doesn’t quit means you keep the manager. VERY FEW TEAMS quit because all players like to play baseball for a living it beats trading your time for doing almost anything else for money.

  12. Chad,

    I am firmly of the belief that Dick Williams needs to hire his own man for the Next Good Reds Team (TM).

    I also believe the Reds are very much not sure that the winning will start in 2018, and, as such, bringing back Price is the easiest option.

    Writing for a broad-based audience in Cincinnati Magazine is quite different than for a “baseball think-piece” site, like the one you created here.

    “Judging (Price) solely on the things he can control” will be glossed over on CM….here, it has been brought up throughout the season.

    He has plenty of things he can control nightly, regardless of talent level. He just underperforms at them most times, compared to his MLB managerial peers.

    You’re “meh”, many fans are, too. The Reds themselves act kind of “meh” regarding being serious about contending. Not a surprise a “meh” manager is coming back in 2018.

    • I’m not convinced that the majority of Price’s managerial peers are much different than him. A few clearly are, and they get paid far more because of it. Some probably are and a bunch aren’t much different. Just my opinion with nothing concrete to back it up.

        • Most people who follow this site also probably think while Dusty may be good at managing people, he is not good at optimizing his given resources.

          Dusty has had great teams with great skill sets in Chicago, San Francisco, Cincinnati, and now Washington….and he hasn’t sealed the deal once. We should get someone better than Dusty or Price, neither of whom understand how to get the most productivity out of what you are given.

      • Not a fan of Dusty’s tactics and thought processes when it comes to baseball strategy from the ground up. That said, I am a fan of Dusty Baker the man and also believe in his ability to actually manage baseball players (vs baseball games). I really hope the Nats win it all this year.

    • What if the Nationals make it to the WS and even win it? Is Dusty suddenly a better manager who finally “got it”, whatever “it” might be that got his team over the hump? The 1990 Reds on paper were not as good as the A’s in most “expert” opinions. Since the A’s were expected to win and instead got swept, was LaRussa suddenly not as good a manager as previously thought?

      • Dusty would still be a very old school manager but his management skills would finally be somewhat validated, even though his success rate in the playoffs is still not very good. Price seems to have the unattractive Dusty qualities in terms of old-school thinking but does not really seem to have the leadership and team-building skills that have gotten Dusty his past two jobs.

      • Dusty has three starting pitchers in the top 5 of the NL in WHIP. Anyone could ‘manage’ that team to 85 wins. And any manager could steer them to 95.

        • Teams with good players tend to win. Of course any manager could do well with the Nats. Any manager could have done well with the BRM, as Sparky himself pointed out. The Reds, for Price’s tenure to date, have had some good players but glaring weaknesses, particularly with pitching. It’s difficult to imagine any manager overcoming that unless he also happened to be a #1 starter.

          • But a manager with a backbone would have told the front office Arroyo doesn’t have it.

            An astute manager would have observed Feldman was hurt in the first inning of a 5-0 lead ballgame and not waited until a few innings later to pull him only after the lead was gone.

            An astute observer would have noticed when Cozart was hurt on the bases and pulled him instead of waiting until it was glaring obvious as he limped to third while any other runner would have scored in a close game.

            An astatue manager would have recognized it is a BAD BAD idea to trot out Hoover or most recently Wood in high leverage situations until after several games were lost directly from such poor decisions.

          • An astute manager with reasonable options might have done all of those things, but a manager is limited to the players on his roster.

  13. In my opinion, Bryan Price is not the right person to help with the rebuild for next year because he does not play the rookies. He sat Winker when he came up until Schebler went on the DL and even then when Schebler came back he was immediately given the spot back even with how well Winker was playing! He’s sitting Ervin, sitting Peraza. I’m just sick of seeing this team’s potential future starters sitting on the bench cause Price wants to win now

    The lineup construction as well infuriates me. Why Price insists having Hamilton leading off. The front office is supposedly now big on analytics you’d think they’d know the importance of OBP. We need a new manager that’ll play he lineups and actually think about constructing a lineup

    • Schebler was 12 for his first 31 coming off the DL so I’m not convinced that he was the one who should sit. Duvall needed rest (in my opinion) and Winker could have spelled him as well as Billy.

      • Schebler with his big loopy swings will always be a streaky hitter. That does more harm in more ballgames than the good provided during his few hot streaks. A day in day out high OBP guy will nearly always be more preferable than an Adam Dunn, Jay Bruce, Scott Schebler, or in the latter part of his career, a Ken Griffey Junior.

        So yes – Jesse Winker should start ahead of either Adam Duvall or Scott Schebler. Adam Duvall and Schebler should platoon for one of the outfield positions. And perhaps enough data has been gathered so Phillip Ervin should start against any pitcher that BH has a poor OBP. This way BH can be harnessed to PR for runs in games in high lev situations and at least be a defensive replacement in every game.

  14. The thing I find most interesting about Bryan Price’s dynamic here in Cincinnati is that, unlike Dusty, you almost never hear the players say anything good about Price.

    With Dusty, it was like “Oh yeah, he’s a cool dude.” or “He’s one of the guys.” or “He seems to really care about you.” I can’t really recall any players saying anything bad about him.

    Even now, you get articles like this:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/1/joey-votto-says-dusty-baker-favorite-uncle-you-are/

    “There’s only so many people in the game I’ll listen to, but he played,” Votto said. “He was a really great player. Had a real long career. He’s been through just about everything a player can go through. So when he spoke, you listened to him because you knew it was coming from a place of experience, not an ideology. He was tough. There were times he drove me nuts, but it always made me better and I miss him and admire him and respect him. Even when I’m playing well, he pushed me more and I didn’t understand it and now I do with some perspective.”

    “It’s crazy, man, it’s like seeing your favorite uncle,” Votto said. “I can’t help but smile every time I see him and interact with him. I miss him. He’s charming. He’s got a fantastic sense of humor.”

    With Price, the impression I get is “Well, he’s the manager, so….”

    There just doesn’t seem to be that loyalty or connection between the players and managers that Dusty had. You got the impression that players *wanted* to play for Dusty, whereas with Price it’s just business. I could be wrong and be blinded by confirmation bias, but this just doesn’t seem to be “Price’s Team” the way it was “Dusty’s Team”.

    As I keep saying, Price is Dusty without the people skills.

    • Different management styles. The players may not be fond of Price, but they’re playing hard for him. A side note: Dusty is and has been routinely vilified here, and yet our favorite and most respected player has nothing but good things to say about him, despite his being at least a lesser demon and possibly the anti-Christ. Price sometimes drives me nuts, too, but I think that we must be bored to spend so much time obsessing about him.

    • After reading what Votto said about Dusty & his major league career I thought i’d look at the Reds coaching staff compared to the Dodgers & Nationals coaching staff in regard to major league experience, there is no comparison.

  15. Man oh man, what a heap of misinformation floating around here about the players feelings and Brian Price. Brian Price has his players backs. Make no mistake about it. The players have his back, too. The pitchers (most of them) adore him. Price is tight with Bailey, DeSclafani. Finnegan, Arroyo, Lorenzen, and Iglesias. Price loves Adelman and those underdog types.
    The manager and the coaching staff set the tone for locker room chemistry, and the players expound on that. Dusty let BP get away with murder in the locker room, but not Price.
    Not one player has complained about team chemistry especially this season (after BP), or even last season for that matter. The players have spoken many times how this young team has pulled together and how great the chemistry is. Price and his coaches should get credit for that. But that gets overlooked by The Haters.
    The pitching is starting to come around and has looked solid. Does Price and his coaches not get any credit for that? They have finally been able to construct a viable starting rotation, and going into spring training may have 12 starters vying for 5 spots. Price has never had that luxury since he was hired. But that gets dismissed by The Haters as they get hung up on trivial lineup construction.
    There are smart, intelligent people on this site, but many are reacting out of emotion rather than sensible judgment. The anger for the Reds 2015-2017 futility is justified. However, That anger is being misguided by a lot of misinformation.
    Price, as manager, is the lightening rod for the organization. However, the front office mismanagement of Walt Jocketty has been mostly responsible for the futility on the field for 3 seasons and for the whole necessity of the rebuild. Most of the anger should be directed straight towards Jocketty. Dick Williams, as the new GM, has a lot on his plate when it comes to cleaning up the mess left by Jocketty, and Price and his coaching staff are helping Williams out the best they can. For Price to get his option picked up back in July, he is doing exactly as Dick Williams wants, it would be safe to say. For the public and us fans, we just don’t know what the details are in what Williams wants. Price does and has delivered, or he wouldn’t be coming back.
    So Haters, take a suggestion from the old Reds GM Jim Bowden and “Chillax”.

    • I have said a couple of times that the Reds front office was voted the worst in MLB last year. It has been that way for a couple of more years before that.

    • Some of us “haters” are complaining about the lousy strategic decisions we witness every single day. Unless Price isn’t actually managing this team, he’s the guy to blame. The front office has obviously made some mistakes too, as evidenced by the fact that Price is still managing, but their decisions are a lot harder to analyze because they tend to be more long-term and there are a lot more variables at play. Making sure your worst hitter gets the most at-bats in a specific game is very easy to analyze, and it’s always wrong if the goal is winning.

      • Price is “the guy to blame” for this? Really? You must get all your news from Twitter and that dog crate liner, the Cincinnati Enquirer.
        Even the great Joe Maddon gets blasted by Cubs fans on the hating social media sites for “lousy strategic decisions”. Rays fans blasted Maddon many times. So does Clint Hurdle. So does Terry Francona.
        Strategic in-game decisions are usually made by Price in consultation with his bench coaches. No decisions are made in a vacuum.
        How is it wrong to bat a guy first with an almost .350 batting average and an almost .400 OBP leading off the first inning? That batter is no longer a leadoff hitter after his first at-bat.
        Still hung up on lineup construction, yet you offer no facts, no alternatives, just emotion. A 20-17 record since August 1 is winning. Nice to have a healthy lineup and starting pitching for a change.
        Is that all you got? Billy Hamilton gets more at-bats than other players? For that offense alone, they should throw Price in a pit of alligators.

    • RLN voted last week when the news came out that Price’s option had been picked up.

      71% voted bad move
      29% voted good move

  16. Bottom line. As long as the Reds are losing, either over the entire season or losing early in the playoffs, folks will clamor for a new manager. It’s the classic case of “what have you done for me lately”. It’s really a no win situation for anyone in that position. I believe we’ll see Price depart after next season and end up as a pitching coach again for another team and Williams will bring in the fan favorite Larkin as the new manager. The season of 2019 will end up with incredibly high expectations based purely on the name “Larkin” being associate with the team. How it ends up? We’ll have to wait and see.

    • My guess is that it would end up with most of us hating Larkin, too, because most of us think we know more about baseball than Dusty, Price and Larkin know, and most of us would like to be the manager so that we could prove it by being hated on by everyone else. As I said earlier, we must be bored to harp on the manager so much.

  17. I really don’t like Bryan Price. Lineup construction, lack of fire, stupid quotes, etc etc etc.

    But he doesn’t use the sac bunt that much if it’s not a pitcher. And IF his players have his back, and IF he keeps developing the young pitchers, maybe 2018 won’t be terrible. And maybe Price will do a better job, and get better results.

    I’m sick of losing,sick of the injuries, and sick of the lack of urgency from just about any person in Management. I totally agree that Walt Jocketty should have been jettisoned from this organization a long time ago.

    I understand that to call for Price’s head based on the last four years is misguided, but what have the Reds done to say “We’re trying to build a winner and we want to be better?”

    In the face of the last 4 years – and the heartbreak of 2010-13 – it’s pretty damn hard to “Chillax”

    At what point does “Chillax-ing” turn into apathy?

    • I’d say there’s plenty of Chillax’ing. As in the Indy residents like me, that grew up with dominant Reds teams in the 70s, now Chillax at home and haven’t been down I-74 in years.

      I’d say that when the Reds are playing the Cubs on a Tuesday night, and 11k of the 19k in attendance are Cubs fans, that plenty of dormant Reds fans are Chillax’ing somewhere else.

      Its not Price’s fault per se, but you just shouldn’t be able to lose 90+ year after year and keep your job. I keep going back to this, but the young guy from SD has them 2 games ahead of the Reds! They have nothing….absolutely next to no talent and they play 1/3 of their games vs LA, Arizona, and Colorado. How does he do it? Price has a virtual HOF roster compared to the Padres.

  18. Every coach or manager who’s criticized in any sport, there’s always a response that goes something like “you’re complaining because the team is losing. They’d be losing no matter who ran it, so you’d complain no matter what.” There are certainly fans who will do that, but it seems to me that the vast majority of Price’s critics on this blog aren’t saying he’s bad because he loses. They’re saying he’s bad because he’s bad. You can’t just give a pass to the manager simply because he doesn’t have a great roster. If he manages the roster badly, he’s a bad manager. Price has made enough stupid mistakes for me to believe he doesn’t understand (nor does he WANT to understand) enough about the strategic side of baseball to be a successful manager unless he somehow winds up with vastly superior talent, which he’s never likely to have in a small market.

  19. I’m late to the game here, but I have a couple thoughts (imagine that!);

    1. If you’re in a rebuild, then you need a guy to get you through that. There are plenty of comments made about Coach price’s handling of the rebuild, both good and bad. I personally think Coach Price has done a commendable job. The 2017 season has shown positive signs and short of this season’s awful losing streak, the Reds have played some good baseball and there is progress/sorting. I had hoped to be closer to .500 baseball, but it didn’t happen.
    2. Now comes the time to believe – “We have turned the corner and we are ready to compete for a playoff spot.” Can the current manager take you there and win? Does he have the urgency, the motivational skills, the every-day fire-in-the-belly to guide a championship caliber team?

    Conclusion:
    After three years of rebuilding (losing), I don’t believe Coach Price can offer that kind of leadership. It’s not his fault – he was the man that was assigned the task of slogging through a rebuild. It’s difficult to transition from “rebuild manager” to “championship caliber” manager. Coach Price had to know that a rebuild wasn’t going to be pretty – but sometimes that’s what you get for your first managerial job. You get a shot to learn a lot about patience and losing.
    But now, the team, the organization, the fan-base all need to know that it is time to turn the page. It’s time to send a signal – there is a change in philosophy, a change in approach, and here’s a manager that will take us to the next level.

    I have utmost respect for Coach Price. He has done his job to the best of his abilities given the pieces that he had to work with. But as an organization, the Reds need to send the clear message – WE ARE READY TO WIN AND HERE’S THE COACH THAT WILL GET US THERE!

Comments are closed.