Titanic Struggle Recap

Reds lose 3-1 with Joey Votto left on-deck

The Reds offense had another tough day. They didn’t score a run until the 9th inning, which broke a string of 18 consecutive scoreless innings against Pirates pitching this weekend. The Reds loaded the bases in the 9th, and had the go-ahead run on first base. However, Jose Peraza weakly grounded out to the pitcher to end the game. The game ended with Joey Votto in the on-deck circle.

Sal Romano gave the Reds another solid start, allowing just one earned run over 5.2 innings. The Reds will come back to GABP tomorrow, and try to play spoiler to the Milwaukee Brewers. The Brewers are right in the middle of the wild-card race.

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (58-79) 1 10 1
Pittsburgh Pirates (65-72) 3 5 1
W: Williams, T (6-7) L: Romano (4-6) S: Rivero (17)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Statcast | Box Score | Game Thread

Biggest Play of the Game

According to Fangraphs WPA statistic (winning percentage added), the most important play of the game was Jose Peraza grounding into a fielders choice with the bases loaded to end the game. That play decreased the Reds chances of winning by 14.1% (from 14.1% to 0.0%).

Positives

Sal Romano continues to make a strong case for a spot in the 2018 rotation. He finished today with a line of 5.2 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 4 BB, 2 K. The four walks today were a little troubling, but if not for an error on Chad Wallach, Romano’s day might have looked even better. Romano also got his first big league hit, a double off the wall.

Joey Votto had a two hit day, including a double.

Eugenio Suarez had the hardest hit ball of the day, with a double that registered a 107.2 exit velocity.

Scotter Gennett showed that he really can do it all, when he put down a bunt single to beat the shift in the 4th inning.

Phillip Ervin had a nice AB to keep the Reds alive in the 9th inning, as he fought off a two-strike count for a single. Could Ervin be working his way to a platoon role in 2018 with Scott Schebler or Jesse Winker?

Negatives

Rough couple days for the Reds offense. They did collected 10 hits today, but only walked three times. The Reds offense was killed today by grounding into two double plays.

Chad Wallach got a start today. He didn’t catch a pop up that had some tough backspin on it (still a very catchable ball though). The batter, Max Moroff got a second chance, and then banged a double off the wall, and later scored.

Not so random thoughts……….

Today’s game ended with Joey Votto in the on-deck circle. Why exactly did Price move Votto from the #2 spot? Billy Hamilton and Jose Peraza should never get more trips to the plate than Votto. Never.

Billy Hamilton lead off the game with a single. Jose Peraza then laid down a bunt. It looked like Peraza might have been bunting for a single, and not a straight sacrifice. Still, I absolutely hate bunting with Hamilton on first base. I don’t understand that all, which is why I am so against him ever batting 8th. Billy Hamilton then got picked off second base. The next batter, Joey Votto, doubled to really put a cap on a brutal first inning.

Up Next:

Brewers at Reds
Monday, 1:10 PM
TV: FOX Sports Ohio, ESPN
Homer Bailey (7.51 ERA/5.38 FIP) vs Chase Anderson (2.96 ERA/3.71 FIP)

72 thoughts on “Reds lose 3-1 with Joey Votto left on-deck

  1. Think that is the 5th or 6th time Votto has watched a game end in the on-deck circle this season.

    • The impact of a stupid lineup hits home on the day Price is being defended because he doesn’t have enough good players. If he had more good players, would he suddenly no longer bat fast, bad hitting guys ahead of Joey Votto?

      • My hope (and it is probably a major reach) is that Price is batting those two at the top of the lineup to try to develop their on base skills, and that if the Reds were competing for a playoff spot they wouldn’t be hitting there.

        • It’s ‘s reach. It shouldn’t take 5 months for someone to figure out that these two can’t get on. If anything at least Peraza is trying. The other idiot consistently swings at first pitches. I wonder how many at bats this year he has swung at first pitches. He really has no concept of what a lead off hitter is.

          • Billy is 2nd on the team in pitches seen per PA.
            Suarez is 1st, Votto is 3rd.

            Billy bats ,359 and slugs .563 on the 1st pitch.
            It seems like the facts don’t support you theory

          • OK then I was wrong on that. Thank you for the facts. So if he doesn’t swing at the first pitch he is hitting what? Below 100? The guy is terrible.

          • Now if we could only get him to swing at the first pitch and make contact then WOW.Of course that would improve his extra base hits some(29 in 543 at bats) and reduce his strikeouts(23%) but that would hurt how many walks he gets.No worries not much there he only walks 8% of the time.Data can be abused or used to make a point.

          • We all know, of course, that Billy is entirely to blame for this losing season. He was on base twice yesterday. A couple of days ago he was on third with no outs and the heart of the order couldn’t bring him home. He’s not a good hitter and it seems illogical to bat him lead-off, but if he were Mike Trout, the Reds probably wouldn’t have made the playoffs this year, and if the Reds had had good starting pitching all year, there’s a reasonable chance that they would have with Billy being Billy–an outstanding centerfielder and baserunner who, despite our impressions, gets on base often enough to lead the Majors in stolen bases and have the second most runs scored on the Reds. I get that many of you don’t like defense-first players, and that’s fine. I do.

        • Like to think postitive as well Nick.I could live with Peraza for awhile just to see because I feel he does have more upside then Billy who has 2000 at bats in the big leagues with 110 extra base hits and a obp of 298.Billy won’t get any better.

          • Plus he gets picked off about 15 times per season effectively dropping his OBP to like .280. He is a terrible and dumb player. Yes dumb. The Pirates shortstop was playing right behind the bag at 2B and he allows himself to get picked with Votto at bat. He has no sense of risk to reward ratio. I can’t stand him. He belongs on the bench but he would still find his way in the lineup far too often for my taste. Trade hm for anything, someone must value his speed.

      • And that is a pile of crap. They have a lot of good players. The whole infield is good with Cozart, Votto,Gennett and Suarez. Outfield has one of the best left fielder’s in the game and Barnhart Is a serviceable catcher. Their starting 8 is better than other teams. Them starting the year with Arroyo was nothing but a publicity stunt that backfired tremendously.

        • Barnhart has a defensive WAR of 2.2, which leads MLB in defensive WAR. I Think that’s a tad better than serviceable.

          As for Billy, I want to see him bat 9th and, which this team, I’d bat Saurez first and Votto second. I like having his defense but he needs less at bats. The fact that he leads MLB in outs is an indictment of is lack of OBP ability.

          • Pete Rose, I believe, has more career outs than any other player. More hits, too, of course. Must have been the grittiness.

          • If you look at the list of all time outs it’s because of longevity and most of those players are hall of famers. If Billy plays for 20 years and is a hall of fame then your comment looks good. Right now not so much.

          • WAR doesn’t include framing, a very important part of catching until MLB replaces umpires calling balls & strikes. Both Reds catchers are rated at the bottom wrt framing.

          • Not so much? But maybe a little? I did mention the hits and the grittiness.

      • It is something to consider moving forward. Can this guy win us that 1-2 games per year and another 1 game in the postseason with his moves, matchups and lineups?

        Does he have the cahones to sit Peraza, Suarez or Duvall in the NLCS like Maddon did Jason Hayward if they go cold?

        Doubt it.

      • I don’t get the defense of Price. Batting someone with an OBP of under .300 leadoff is just asinine.

        • Let’s remember too he had a good team in 2014 that tanked in the second half.

    • Sadly, among them was the game where he was attempting to tie Ted Williams’ record for most consecutive games getting on base two or more times.

  2. To me the biggest play of the day was Hamilton getting picked off second. It set the tone for the day. Just like he sets the tone of the game with getting on in the 1st and coming around to score. If he can set the tone in a positive way then he can in a negative way.

  3. I can’t get over how complacent this franchise has gotten with losing. I mean we can’t even get out of the cellar for the third straight season. Price has the worst three year record of any manager yet keeps his job. They already have lost half their fan base soon it will be the entire town.

    • The manager has only so much control of what goes on.He doesn’t hit field or pitch but he does make out the lineup and its his job to put his players in the best position to win every day and every game.He is unwavering at what he does and he won’t change.Its not about Billy or Peraza because the data says it all its about Price believing he is right and he will continue to do it.If Votto has another guy other then Billy hitting in front of him along with Cozy then he has way over 100 + rbi’s right now.Pick somebody else,anybody else not named Peraza.Its just common sense.

    • The entire town of 300, 000 is not enough to support a ML franchise. That support comes from a metro area of 2.2 million. The other half of the fan base will be back when, if, the Reds become a contending .500 plus team.

    • Much of what we “know” about The Triangle Shirt Waist Fire is, by and large, a Sorelian myth. It has become a convenient excuse for more government overreach than you can imagine.

      It’s a fitting image for Labor Day, though, a holiday about work that has become an excuse not to work.

      • And as we all know, working people always look for excuses not to. It shouldn’t be permitted.

      • A poor excuse for picking a man’s pocket every 25th of December, Bob Cratchitt.

    • I don’t have access to the game history, but I believe the Reds have had pretty solid starting pitching across the board for 2-3 weeks, maybe even a month. The excuse for not winning has almost uniformly been the lack of quality starting pitching. The starting pitching has not been the problem for a while now, yet the team continues to lose, even against teams with marginal talent and poor records. I realize the decision to retain Price as the manager was made two months ago, but irrespective, this is what we will see for the remainder of this season and all of next season.

      • I do not look forward to seeing Billy Hamilton in the leadoff position the remainder of this season and all of next season.

      • We will see this unless Billy and Peraza are replaced by hitters that get on base now and in the future.So many times this year we fell way behind and got a lot of cookies to hit down 4 or 5 runs but lately our starting pitchers have kept it close and looked what happened.If not for a gift run in the ninth today we would have been shut out 4 times in the last 8 games.Why? Its because we have three guys,four counting the pitcher with no power and 3 counting the pitcher that get on base at under 300.Its even worse against lefties because that tends to hurt Scooter and switches Tucker to hit right handed and his splits are terrible. Several times this year we have Peraza,Tucker,the pitcher and Billy hitting in order.Can’t win like that now or in the future.When Winker plays he hits 7th and I have asked more then once you is going to drive him in.Today we had the catcher,the pitcher who got on twice,Billy and Peraza.Romano hit one off the wall which is twice as far as the other guys hit it.

        • They have losing records more than 5 out of 6 months during Price’s tenure.

  4. Don’t know how to feel about Romano’s start. Seemed to induce a lot of weak contact, and the Pirates had some bad swings. But he walked four and struck out two. If he pitched against a good offensive team (Pirates are 27th in runs scored), he probably has a rough day.

    Still, maybe that’s a sign that he can compete without his best stuff. He’s been encouraging since he’s started throwing the changeup more.

  5. Maybe fans may have to do what Bengals fans did a few years back, stop buying season tickets. That seemed to wake up Mike Brown. Someone please tell me the Price managing next year is a bad joke.

    • The dearth of playoff wins seem to question whether Mike Brown is awake. Bryan Price managing next year is the reality.

        • Mike Brown most definitely is awake. In his lawyer like cleverness he has shrewdly shifted hundreds of millions of dollars from Hamilton county tax payers into his and his family’s pockets. Nice monopoly the NFL and most sports franchises have going….gotta love anti-capitalism

  6. Hamilton and Peraza with 10 PA today (5 each) and with the game on the line in the 9th inning, Hamilton and Peraza came to the plate with the tying run on base. Did anyone have any expectation or even hope that the Reds would score the tying run iin the 9th inning with Hamilton and Peraza coming to the plate with 2 outs? … Anyone?

    Hamilton walked on a gift call that should have been strike 3 looking and Peraza muscled a grounder that barely made it out of the batters box, the pitcher could have fielded and recorded the unassisted force out at the plate, but opted to almost hand the ball to the catcher for the force out.

    In Hamilton’s 5 PA, he had a single that was erased when he was picked off and a gift walk that should have been strike 3 looking to end the game. In Peraza’s 5 PA, he had a single. That’s Bryan Price baseball at it’s best when you throw in the two sac bunts that served no purpose other than to give away two outs.

    The Reds had both MLB catchers available for the game, yet Price opts to start Wallach. Wallach has always been bat first catcher. His defense does not come anywhere close to being good and his error opend the door for the unearned run in the 6th inning. Wallach does not factor into the Reds future plans. The Reds had to carry Turner on the major league roster for the entire season because no one in the organization trusted Wallach as a major league caliber catcher. Yet Price sticks him in the starting lineup without hesitation. This bat first catcher had a spectacular AAA slash of .226/.280/.398 before his emergancy call up to cover for dueling parternity leaves for Turner and Barnhart. Wallach did have a father who had a pretty good major league career. I guess that’s justification for giving him the start when real prospects like Winker and Ervin rarely (and that’s being generous) see any playing time while they ride the bench.

    When 55% of the lineup has an OPS >.810, 45% of the manager’s lineup has an OPS <.630, the manager gives away outs like candy with sac bunts and the manager makes sure the worst hitters always get the most PA, does anyone wonder why the Reds have been struggling to score runs?

      • What got me was that Peraza swung at the first pitch in the ninth. I guess that’s not out of character for him, but was hoping the circumstances might have led him to be more patient. The pitcher had just walked Hamilton — who tried his best to resist, swinging at lots of bad pitches until NOT swinging at what looked like it would be a called third strike — then Peraza hits his dribbler on the first pitch. …

        I didn’t have as big of a problem with Chad Wallach getting a start. Yes, that was a bad error, and I whined in the game thread about it hurting Romano, but I suppose the ‘sorting’ might as well include the September callups. Or maybe it was a bit of a courtesy thing if it doesn’t look like he’ll be around next year, with Turner able to be sent to Louisville. And I’m wondering if Price didn’t want to give the new daddies an extra day off as they are probably still recovering from their whirlwind paternity leaves.

        The (sad) consolation prize: The Reds are still well in contention for a top-5 pick next spring.

        • Couldn’t have swung at THAT many bad pitches or he wouldn’t have walked.

          • Well, when ball 4 should have been called strike three, and the first two strikes were swings at pitches out of the strike zone, yeah, he did.

    • Well geez when you put it like that… lol. Seriously, what an indictment. Price seems like a smart guy but you are right on the money his decisions and lineup construction are downright befuddling.

      • His lineup construction process is downright LAZINESS. check out the recent ESPN article to see how it should be done – Joe Madden and the Cubbies.

  7. Yep that having fast runners on at the top of the lineup has produced a lot of runs. (SARCASM) Even the win Friday night came from 3-6 positions.

    • The lead off hitter was on 3 times Saturday (o runs) and twice today (1 run) for the team…obp of .500…what gives?

      • The leadoff hitter was sacrificed to 2B with no outs and picked off 2B with 1 out today. Those two inexcusablely negative actions alone probably impacted the outcome significantly. The Reds would have been better off without having a leadoff hitter today.

      • It has to be Billy didn’t put enough fear in the Bucs when he got on or that he actually needs some help from the guys behind him to score.Price was quoted as saying Billy put fears in the other team when he gets on base at a 300 clip.So I am guessing that at a 550 clip they were scared to death.So it must be the reason he didn’t score is he got no help from the guys behind him except his first time today when he got picked off and then Votto doubled.

      • I like how you use today as a reference for Billy getting on? Let’s go back to a August when he hot about 200.

  8. Well BC, DW and BP have proclaimed loud and clear for all Reds fans to hear, “This is what you can expect going forward!” BC hired WJ and DB. Neither WJ nor DB accomplished anything with the players obtained prior to BC received controlling interest. Neither WJ nor DB accomplished anything to improve the team during their tenure. When BC fired DB, the manager search by WJ lasted, oh maybe 30 seconds, before Price was hired as their unqualified, in-house option. When BC finally put WJ out to pasture, the GM search lasted, oh maybe 30 seconds, before DW was hired as their nepotistic, unqualified, in-house option. This is BC’s team and BC is going to make the moves for his own narrow, self-satisfying reasons. Those narrow, self-satisfying reasons have nothing to do with hiring the best and brightest professionals to run the baseball organization.

    DW may in fact be caught up in the internal politics of the Reds and may be hamstrung from making the moves he wants to make and from making waves to object to the decisions being dictated to him. DW may be a catalytic part of the problem or simply a yes man following orders. We don’t have any way of knowing, but this organization is on very shaky management foundation and it’s not the players who are the problem.

    Another year of Votto’s career will pass in 2018 with nothing to show except the accolades and reputation as the bestt hitter of this generation. Another season of team control for Suarez, Duvall, Schebler and Barnhart will pass as they move closer to FA. Cozart will be gone after the 2017 season. Mesoraco will be gone after the 2018 season. I expect Hamilton will be extended to keep BC’s golden prospect. I can see Winker being traded for marginal prospects in A ball. This is not a bright future facing the Reds and Reds fans, but it is what it is.

    • I live in Huntington WV and have been a Reds fan for 60 years. I am not the least bit interested in making the effort to see the Price-led Reds. Sad.

  9. Take a look at the Bats roster from the game just wrapped this evening. Tyler Goedel with a .283/.359/.364 slash (.723 OPS) was hitting 8th while Walker (.151/.195/.281 slash & .476 OPS), Van Slyke (.119/.240/.238 slash & .478 OPS) and Jagielo (.165/.289/.200 slash & .489 OPS) covered the middle of the lineup. This is not just Price’s philosophy to lineup contruction. It pervades the minor league syste with the blessing of those running the baseball organization or being dictated to by BC.

    • A good synopsis of the topsy-turvy Red’s front office and the dominating majority owner, Mr. Castellini. It all doesn’t bode well for baseball’s oldest franchise.

    • This is as bad as the Mike Shula led Bengals. The future is not very bright with this kind of baseball philosophy pervading the system.

  10. Price said the lineup is solid from top to bottom and even though it would have bee nice tog get the young guys some wins and the team some wins it really wasn’t a concern.Kind of says it all doesn’t it.

  11. My concern is the Reds, as always with the Bengals, accept mediocrity. There’s no urgency to get better. The rebuild is fine, after a while, but is Price really the guy to lead them? I just don’t see it.

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