Titanic Struggle Recap

The beat down goes on

The Reds lost the opening game of their four-city road trip to first-place Cleveland. The loss means a split in the 4-game inter-Ohio series, leaving the Ohio Cup in northern Ohio. Although last year Cleveland swept the four games with the Reds, so there’s that.

The Reds are now 5-10 in interleague games with series left against the Yankees and Red Sox. The Reds next travel to New York for two games against the Bronx Bombers. The Reds split two games with the Yankees in early May.

The Reds are in line for the fourth pick in next summer’s amateur draft.

 

Cincinnati Reds 2  Cleveland 6 || Box || Play Log || Statcast

Tim Adleman pitched six complete innings and faced two batters in the seventh. He gave up five runs on six hits. At one point, Adleman retired ten Cleveland hitters in a row. His mix of 3 walks and 4 strikeouts isn’t a recipe for success. Adleman’s ERA is now 5.11, FIP is 5. 61 and xFIP 5.00. Enough of this, please.

Blake Wood replaced Adleman and at first poured gasoline on the fire, giving up a single, walk and single before striking out two and getting Edwin Encarnacion on a soft liner. Tony Cingrani continues to make it harder for the Reds to trade him.

The Reds run scoring was provided by solo home runs from Scooter Gennett (18) and Zack Cozart (12), the latter blasted a 73-mph Josh Tomlin curveball over the tall left field wall.

With his 4th inning walk, Joey Votto takes the major league lead with 72. Aaron Judge is second with 71. Jose Peraza is last with 6. Votto and Judge will square off tomorrow night for the Great Base on Balls Battle. Votto singled, drew the walk, got hit by a pitch and lined out sharply to left field.

57 thoughts on “The beat down goes on

  1. Mondays and Adleman go hand in hand. You know they are coming and you dread both of them. Once you get past them the rest of the week looks decent.

  2. I’m so sick of this losing… rebuilding or not. This team doesn’t get any better. The pitching is god awful.

  3. If Price stays they lose 100 games even if DW said they aren’t losing games in the dugout.

      • I thought so at the time. He was at 97 pitches, or close to that at the end of six. It went from a solid outing to a poor one by leaving him in.

      • I’m glad he left him in. He should have another inning in him with just 97 pitches. A normal inning gets through the seventh with 113 pitches, which each and every starter should be easily capable of on a regular basis. I want them to quit babying the starters and get to sorting them out so we end up with the best 5 and they are prepared to pitch regularly into the 7th and beyond.

    • Not a big Price fan but if he goes they still lose 98 games, if your contention of 100 is accurate. Unless he is totally incompetent the manager isn’t going to make that big a difference. Then again, some here would argue that Price is incompetent. Like all managers, some decisions leave us scratching our heads, or banging them against a wall but I doubt “baseball people” see him as any less competent than half to 2/3 of the other managers out there.

  4. With a loss tomorrow, the Reds will have to play better than .500 baseball the rest of the year to prevent a 3rd straight 90 loss year. That’s Depression year history.
    Brian Price actually implied Romano or Stephenson will give up their rotation spots regardless when Feldman is back from rehab and Disco is back because Adleman stays in the rotation.
    Brian Price is gone Sunday September 3rd.

    • Price better be gone! Here is my point… the Pirates have a smaller payroll than us yet they aren’t rebuilding. This is their fifth straight season being in playoff contention.

      • Their pitching prospects all panned out to at least decent levels. Reds haven’t found one guy yet, although Castillo is making a big and perhaps Romano if he can string a few more together.

        Some of rebuilding (or not rebuilding) is luck. For every 4 pitching prospects, if 1 turns into an average or better major leaguer, you’re doing OK.

  5. Because the Reds marketing department wont admit failure until school starts again and the bobble-head days are complete and the rosters expand…. Phil Castellini runs the team.

    • Phil Castellini owns the calendar but has a seat at the baseball operations table. Dick Williams runs the team but Walt Jocketty wont go away.

      • I’m genuinely curious…what are you basing that assertion on?

        I think Phil C is involved in baseball decisions to the degree that they impact the budget. I don’t believe he said “move Frazier and Chapman pronto”……he likely did indicate that revenue was expected to drop and they needed to cut payroll by “x” amount in order to offset the revenue decline. He may offer an opinion regarding how a trade may impact PR or ticket sales ….but I doubt he has anything to do with who bats lead off or whether Lorenzen starts. The Williams family seemingly owns about as much of the team as the Castellini’s so I doubt Dick Williams has to defer to Phil.

        I really doubt Jocketty has anything to do with anything…..if he’s still making decisions then why accept the humiliation of his ” retirement”?

        • There have been several Jocketty sightings recently. He may well still have the ear of the other Castellini; the one who actually owns the team.

        • The Reds have very little ability to impact ticket sales in September. A last place team, school has started and football dominates the weekends. They are given a gift with the Red Sox to close the season.

          August is still in play. A weekend series against the Cards early in the month with a concert and an Iglesias bobble-head, A weekday series for Cubs fans gives them a break late month but weekday series against the Padres and Mets and a weekend series against the Pirates are frightening for attendance. The Reds leadership will not want Price fired in August as it communicates to the casual fan base the Reds are giving up on the season. The message indirectly becomes you should too and there are still millions of dollars at stake in August to the Reds bottom line. It also will take the focus off the baseball field and they don’t want that in August.

          I do think some big decisions- like Aroldis Chapman as closer- were impacted by factors off the field of baseball, including his marketability in the 9th inning.

          • I think you mean the Red Sox were given a gift. Probably no better way to wrap up the AL East than a series against the worst team in the NL.

          • I disagree with the firing of Price will hurt ticket sales of August games. Maybe it will have a reverse effect. I know that the manager of the team would not be the determining factor of weather I would go to a game or not.

          • Unless a person has been living in Siberia or under a rock, they knew in June the season was over.

          • The season was over on opening day. This team has the worst pitching in baseball.

          • Giving up on the season in August? Hell I gave up when Arroyo was still starting. I would go to a game if they had a new manager and they started playing guys that will be here in the future. Who the heck wants to pay to see Adleman or afeldman? They will put more fannies in the seats with younger guys playing.

  6. I can deal with losing if we continue to sort through players.How we lose is just mind boggling sometimes.We went through the motions tonight and that is unacceptable but our manager did the same thing by sending Aldeman back out for the 7th.It served no purpose to extend him and with Wood warming up he just threw in the towel.Price didn’t even pretend to try and win the game.Aldeman was done and Wood never ever does well in a close game and everybody knows that.I mean he could have brought in anybody else in to start the 7th and made us all believe he was trying to keep it close but he didn’t even bother.He has to go.

  7. Am I the only one who was struck by the apparent indifference when Cingrani took that header on his follow thru? Meso sort of looked around; but, apparently no one from the bench even started to venture out toward the mound.

    • Yeah. Cleveland replay showed his ankle buckled and caused him to fall. 95% of the time the trainer will come out and the the pitcher we be allowed a couple of tosses to make sure everything is ok.

  8. I’m not sure there’s a mandate to win. Perhaps Price wanted to see what a tired Adelman could do — sorting and what not.

    He’s just not starting material even when fresh so I think that one has clearly sorted itself right out.

    Keeping Adelman in the rotation is the killer – unless they’re trying to get his ERA under 6 before the trade deadline – he would be currently our most productive SP asset – maybe the Dodgers would want him 😛

    • Regarding your first sentence, Williams said earlier this year Price wouldn’t be evaluated on wins and losses so much as on development of players. We might argue that he has failed in that regard by continuing to pitch Adleman and others.

  9. A word on someone we did not see tonight….Adam Duvall.

    Duvall for the season: 20 HR, 65 RBI
    Duvall so far in July: 1 HR, 8 RBI

    Yankee Stadium is no. 1 this season in home runs as a park factor and 4th overall in runs.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

    Here is hoping Duvall plays in New York and starts to get his groove back. No better place to do so, not even good old GABP.

    It has been mentioned on this site before that perhaps Duvall wears down as the season goes on because of having diabetes. If that is true to any extent, maybe he should not have appeared in 95 of 99 games to date.

    It might explain his July swoon, or might have nothing to do with it at all.

    We are in the second half of the “season of sorting”, and I feel like there are more unanswered questions, up and down the ballclub, manager and organization, than when the season began.

    • Using the splits tool on FanGraphs, Duvall had a similar trend last season:

      2016

      Apr/May/June -22 HR, 55 RBI
      July/Aug/Sept – 11 HR, 48 RBI

      • What sorting are they doing? Other than Alderman blows. This organization has no clue.

          • I third that motion – sad state of affairs. Totally embarrassing what this proud franchise has become. Tired of hearing all the blah, blah , blah from Williams and Price. Don’t see what the “plan” or “direction” is > operating like a fart floating in the wind

          • Exactly my point. I mean does anyone really ask why this rebuild had to start? It didn’t have to start if they had players to replace Cueto, Leake, Bruce etc. They didn’t hence the rebuild.

          • This rebuilding is just an excuse to lose. If they were serious about winning soon you don’t pick Hunter Greene who is only 17.

    • Geoff,

      No one questioned why the rebuild needed to happen because it was so obvious. Should they have just let Cueto, Leake and Chapman walk?

      As for not having their replacements…that is a fair point. Though, most teams would struggle to replace 3 players of that quality at the same time. Green was drafted because he was the best player available.

      • In regard to replacing Cueto, Leake, and Chapman…the Reds had supposed high end pitchers in the pipeline, but they have all fallen flat from Cingrani, Stephenson, et al. on.

  10. As season goes on, losses can now be categorized as “good” or “bad”. Last night loss may be a “good” one: only 4 careers differential, starting pitcher went 6+ innings and only two relievers were used. GO REDS!

  11. I wonder if Wood and Cingrani are even brought back next season. Both can be let go through arbitration and both are replaceable from within. Garrett has to stick with the Reds next season, which may necessitate a move to the pen. Who knows when Finnegan will be healthy or where he’ll be assigned, but if recent procedure post shoulder issues come into play we may see him in the bullpen as well. Hernandez, Weiss, and Herget will be on the team or in AAA. Plenty of solid options and that’s before we start sending former starters there (Mella, Davis…)

  12. The front office could have brought Winker up to stay and platooned him in the outfield with the other 3 guys and kept them all fresh.If you had a little guy in center that is playing banged up and a diabetic in left who wears down easily what would you do.Just another not paying attention to what is going on by this team.Cluless is a better word.Its a long season players get dinged up but everybody knows Billy and Duvall’s history.Its mentioned on this site all the time in just casual conversation.

  13. The plan is that we don’t have a plan its just mass confusion.Did we really have to sort through Aldeman and Wood again last night or again in 5 days.Come on its goofy to see that stuff but the next 4 guys that get the ball maybe part of the future so that does help some.Same song,same choir and nobody listening except die hard fans like me that don’t know any better.

  14. I am not sure the Reds have a core of positional players to contend, much less starting pitching. Still too many “streaky” players.

    • Almost all players can be described as “streaky”… What needs to be determined is do the cold streaks last longer than average?

  15. Just to better explain myself.If that was any young pitcher that Price has sent back out all of us would conclude he wants to see if he can get through this inning which is a good thing.Aldeman has very little upside or future as a starter in the big leagues so it doesn’t matter as far as his development.His stuff is average and he his what 29 years old so whats the point and I believe he was close to 100 pitches.As far as Wood well he isn’t any good in close games and we know about him as well.So no sorting was needed and it was a one run game so maybe just maybe you try to keep it close and maybe you can steal one in the last couple of innings.Yeah its just one game on our way to however many losses but if Aldeman is going to stay in the rotation then at least play to win his starts rather then trying to see if you can squeeze one more pitch or one more inning out of him.He held his own through 6 innings and gave up 3 runs.Good job.Get him out and don’t bring in Wood and move on.

  16. “The beat down goes on” indeed. And the beatings will continue until morale improves. The Reds do seem to be saying to their fanbase: “You’ll take Tim Adleman and Blake Wood and you’ll like it!”

    On an unrelated note, I’m really looking forward to the Ron Oester bobblehead night!

  17. Just an observation on Peraza. He has obviously been told to be more selective at the plate. Not just last night, but the last several games, he seems to be making an effort, but it seems to be coming at the expense of being aggressive.
    Last night:
    AB 1: Strike 1 Looking, Strike 2 Looking, Foul, Ball 1, Strike 3 Swinging.
    AB 2: Ball 1, Strike Looking, Popup
    AB 3: Strike 1 Looking, Strike 2 Looking, Ball 1, Ball 2, groundout

    Somebody is in his ear about being more selective. Selective is one thing, but becoming a statue is just the opposite of what he needs to become.

    Pitch recognition is a real skill. Swing at the good ones, lay off the bad ones. I hope he can mature at this skill.

    • Absolutely correct, and that’s why the development occurs in the minor leagues where a player can work to resolve any issues he has rather than trying to learn the basics against major league pitching.

  18. Time to get Jesse Winker back up.
    Schebler is hitting .149 in July and >065 since the all-star break. That 4 man OF rotation is needed in a big way now.
    Duvall is only a little better. A .192 BA in July and .184 since all-star break.
    The corner OFers are tiring and withering, and Winker languishes at AAA.

  19. “The Reds are in line for the fourth pick in next summer’s amateur draft.”

    This is a very depressing thought. That wasn’t supposed to happen this year. The Reds are actually 3 games out of the second spot, #2 overall again. But 6 games ahead of the #10 NYM.
    Three years running at #2 would be a feat even the Cubs and Astros didn’t achieve during their Rebuilds.
    How it stands today.
    1. Phillies 34-63
    2. SF 38-63
    3. CHW 39-57
    4. Reds 41-58
    5. SD 43-56
    6. A’s 44-55
    7. TOR 45-54
    8. DET 45-53
    9. MIA 45-52
    10. NYM 46-51

  20. Blaming the manager has been, is, and will be a waste of time. As someone once said it is a lot easier to fire a manager than 25 players. There is not a baseball manager alive who could win with this roster. Everybody in baseball knows it including everyone associated with the Reds front office. As I have said numerous times this team is at least 3 years away from competing for a wild card spot. Reds talent on the MLB roster and in the pipeline is significantly behind other teams in the NL. This is going to take time to fix. If Price is let go I predict the Reds will terminate at 2 more managers before they get competitive. The problem is the players are not good enough. It is that simple.

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