Reds History

Frustrated with Reds pitching?

The Cincinnati Reds landscape is littered with pitchers who have contended with injuries. Are we living in a unique period, with fragile pitchers and unsure management? It’s worth remembering that even our most respected and beloved managers — including Fred Hutchinson, Dave Bristol. Sparky Anderson, Davey Johnson and Lou Piniella — have been as perplexed and frustrated as we are today. Unfortunately, history does repeat itself.

Sparky’s Fab Four

As the Reds steamrolled the NL West to 102 wins during the 1970 season under rookie skipper Sparky Anderson, the big four of the Reds starting rotation was Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson, Jim Merritt and Jim McGlothlin. With those four on the mound, the Reds won 70 of their first 100 games. They were clearly the best team in baseball when you consider they also had players like Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Bobby Tolan, Tony Perez, Lee May, Bernie Carbo and “I’m just a Hubcap” Tommy Helms of the Big Red Machine.

Simpson started the season 14-1 and was virtually unbeatable. The big hard-throwing right-hander was the next Bob Gibson. The kid was 7-14 in Triple A the season before and the light suddenly turned on that winter in Puerto Rico. But he blew his shoulder out on a fastball to Cubs left fielder Billy Williams that July. Wayne Simpson was finished, even though he lingered with the Reds until 1972.

McGlothlin started off fast in 1970 but took a line drive off his knee in June. He got hurt again in August. He kept pitching but wasn’t close to being 100%.

Left hander Merritt won 20 games in 1970 but popped his elbow in September. He limped to the finish line and got bombed in the World Series by the Orioles. In 1971, he was 1-11 and got booed out of Cincinnati.

Only Gary Nolan survived the season. He won 18 in ’70, pitched even better in 1971 but missed the next two seasons due to an assortment of arm injures before coming. (More on Nolan later.)

But Sparky had four hotshot young pitching prospects up his sleeves. They were the future of the Reds. All were either with the Reds or at Indianapolis in Triple A. The Reds would survive these injuries that decimated their pitching staff.

Those four pitchers were Don Gullett, Ross Grimsley, Mel Behney and Milt Wilcox. Only Wilcox was a right hander — the other three were lefties. (Sound familiar? Remember the Cueto trade?)

Sparky called them ‘Young Don Gullett,’ ‘Mr,.Grimsley’, ‘Young Mel Behney’ and ‘Milt’ He raved about them and swore pitching coach Larry Shepherd, who was compared to a Marine drill instructor, would whip them into shape.

Gullett and Wilcox pitched in 1970 and did well. They even performed respectably in the World Series against the Big Bad Birds. 1971, here we come.

Young Don Gullett (18 years old) did. In 1971, he finished 16-6 in a 79-83 season for the Reds. He had it all. A blazing fastball. A natural pitching motion. A great athlete, Gullet could even help himself with the bat and ran the bases well. “Wall to wall heat” is how Pirates slugger Willie Stargell described Gullet’s fastball. In a relief appearance against the World Champion Mets in August 1970, Young Don Gullett struck out six Mets hitters in a row and 8 of the 12 he faced. For the next six seasons, Don Gullett anchored the Reds pitching staff. He was the guy, he was the ace.

But in 1972, he contracted hepatitis and finished a mediocre 9-10. He had good seasons in 1973 and 1974 and was on his way to a 20-game winning season in 1975 when he got injured by a line drive and fractured  his thumb. He won just 11 games but was a big factor in the Reds World Championships in 1975 and 1976. In ’76 he showed up at spring training out of shape and Anderson fumed.

And eight months later, Don Gullett was gone. Just like that. He wanted a five-year contract in 1977 and Reds GM Bob Howsam balked, offering instead just a two-year deal. Gullett abandoned the Reds for the Yankees. It was  Cincinnati’s first free agent defection. And two years later, Don Gullett retired as an active baseball player because of injuries.

The other three of Sparky’s Fab Four had mixed results. Mel Behney washed out. Wilcox was traded after the 1971 season but the Reds gave up on him too early. Wilcox was a late bloomer. His career took off and in 1984 (reunited with Sparky at Detroit) he won 17 games, came within one out of a perfect game against the White Sox and won games in the AL playoffs and 1984 World Series.

Grimsley stuck with the Reds until 1974. He pitched one of the all-time great Cincinnati postseason games with his clutch Game 4 victory over the Pirates in 1972, pitching a sparkling two-hitter. But the left hander was too aloof for Sparky. Grimsley’s belief in black magic spooked Anderson and he asked Howsam to trade Grimsley after the 1973 season. Ross went to the Orioles for Merv Rettenmund and had very good success for Earl Weaver and Baltimore, despite growing one of the biggest Afros in baseball, That  trade didn’t work out for Howsam, Sparky or the Reds. Grimsley was a 20-game winner for the Montreal Expos in 1977. The Reds sure could have used Ross Grimsley that season.

From Flamethrower to Magician

18-year old right hander Gary Nolan burst on the scene in Cincinnati in 1967 in a big way. In his debut on April 15 against Houston, he struck out the side in the first inning using a wicked, nasty fastball. On June 7 in a memorable game against the Giants, San Francisco got two runners on base in the 6th inning of a 0-0 game. Nolan then struck out Willie Mays, Willie McCovey and Jim Ray Hart. He fanned Mays four times that day. “No one’s ever done that to me,” said Mays after the game.

Nolan was 14-8 that season with 208 strikeouts. He finished third in Rookie of the Year voting, losing out to Tom Seaver (understandable) and Dick Hughes (not understandable). On Opening Day of 1969, Nolan struck out 12 Dodgers but lost 3-2 to Don Drysdale. Then, Nolan’s first shoulder injury occurred. While in Triple A Indianapolis, he became demoralized but learned to throw the changeup and in 1970, the Reds had a different pitcher.

For the next two seasons, Nolan pitched well. But he hurt his shoulder again just before the All-Star break in 1972, missing more time. He finished with a 15-5 record and a spiffy 1.99 ERA.

He missed most of the 1973 and 1974 seasons. Gary Nolan felt betrayed by both Reds management and teammates that felt he could pitch when he couldn’t because of the pain. Nolan sold his house in Cincinnati. But he came back one more time and helped the Reds to back-to-back World Series titles.

By then, Gary was a finesse pitcher, using a devastating change up and curve with a decent fastball. The late, great sportswriter Earl Lawson called Nolan a “magician” on the mound. Nolan was a master of the strike zone, not giving up many walks although was was bitten by the home run ball.

Nolan’s last start for the Reds came in Game 4 of the 1976 Series when he defeated New York at Yankee Stadium. It was his only World Series win. Injuries resurfaced in 1977, he was traded to the Angels and retired at the end of the season.

Today, Gary Nolan is a member of the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame.

The All-American Boy

Jack Armstrong personified the fast start the 1990 Cincinnati Reds had when they last won the World Series. Cincinnati went wire to wire in first place and Armstrong, a 6’5” right hander jumped out to an 8-1 record. He was selected to start the 1990 All-Star game, the last Reds pitcher to do that and just the seventh in Reds history to start for the National League. He pitched three scoreless innings.

A first round selection in the 1987 draft, Armstrong took the fast route to the big leagues. But he pitched himself out of the rotation by the time the playoffs started. Still, Armstrong pitched three innings of shutout relief in Game 2 of the Reds win over Oakland.

He slipped to a 7-13 record in 1991 and the Reds traded Armstrong and Scott Scudder to the Cleveland Indians for Greg Swindell. A torn rotator cuff finished Jack Armstrong’s career in 1994 at the age of 27.

One win for C.J.

C.J. Nitkowski was yet another first round draft pick of the Reds in 1994. He was also another lefty. Like others, he had a fast-track to the big leagues and made his debut in Cincinnati on June 3, 1995. Used primarily out of the bullpen, C.J. never gained any traction. In July of 1995 he was packaged with two other players in a trade for David Wells — remember when the Reds used to be “buyers”?

The change of scenery didn’t help C.J. During a 10-year career he compiled a 10-32 record and also played ball in Japan and South Korea.

Bonus Baby Flame Out

Chris Gruler was a first round draft pick of the pitching-starved Reds in 2002. Gruler was the answer.

After signing with the Reds, he went off to Billings (Rookie League) where he pitched 16 innings and allowed just two runs. His fastball was clocked at 96 MPH. He then went to Dayton in 2003 and started off strong, even carrying a no-hitter into the 6th inning against Cedar Rapids.

And then it went south. He was raked for 19 runs in just a five inning span over three games. Multiple shoulder surgeries later, he was out of baseball. In the minor leagues, he had a 3-5 record over 27 appearances with an ERA of 5.08.

He never pitched for the Cincinnati Reds.

Conclusion

Tired of hearing about the potential of Robert Stephenson? Cody Reed? Amir Garrett?

Frustrated about injuries to Anthony DeSclafani, Homer Bailey and Brandon Finnegan?

Sick and tired of watching one after another rookie pitcher make his Reds debut?

Unfortunately, difficulties with pitching is a large part of Reds history. Time and time again under countless managers and pitching coaches, young, would-be-star pitchers have arrived and departed.

22 thoughts on “Frustrated with Reds pitching?

  1. I’m guessing this isn’t just limited to the Reds. Throwing overhand is such an unnatural motion, and the effort it takes to pitch a baseball makes injuries almost inevitable. The Mets have certainly had their share of serious injuries to highly thought-of pitchers the past few years. TJ surgery seems almost commonplace any more.

  2. Personally, I’m not frustrated. I think the Reds were actually very shrewd this time in that they built up a pretty well-stocked stable of young pitchers with high upside, almost like they expected the majority of them to fail/get injured. Unlike in years prior where the entire future of the franchise was on the shoulders of like Gruler, they have quite a few options in Disco/Finnegan/Stephenson/Reed/Garrett/Romano/Castillo/Mahle/Davis/Lorenzen, with Homer Bailey still hanging around.

    Gone are the days where Homer Bailey/Ryan Wagner were all we had to look forward to, Iglesias and Lorenzen have already proven themselves useful at the MLB level, and I like what I’ve seen so far from Romano and Castillo. Disco and Finnegan did pretty well last year, although I’ll honestly be shocked if either of them contribute in any significant way going forward. But the point is, the Reds seem to have done it right this time. They caught lighting in a bottle half a decade ago when Cueto/Bailey/Leake actually turned out good at the same time, and they supplemented with Latos and Arroyo through trades. Now, they very well could fill their entire rotation through in-house candidates, although I would not be opposed to them trading for a young, established starter to supplement the rotation when the time comes (and if the need is still there).

    So frustrated? No, on the contrary, I’m excited to see these kids pitch and see who grabs the brass rings to become a starter in the rotation for the next competitive Reds team, which should arrive in 2019 at the latest.

    • I want to say, I should have said “a decade ago”, no need for “half”, but I only just now realized that it’s 2017. Arroyo arrived in 2006, Bailey in 2007, Cueto in 2008, Leake in 2010.

      Yeesh, where does the time go?

  3. I think an old scout used to say ‘you need 7 pitchers just to find 2’ or something like that. The attrition rates are brutal, so you can’t really complain about how much pitching they’ve stockpiled. My gripe is the missed opportunities to let them figure it out at the major league level.

    • Why think they will figure it out (strike zone etc. in) majors if not able to in minors

  4. In my circle of friends in the 1970’s we called called Grimsley The (Grim) Reaper or just Reaper. He was quite a character.

    I recall one stunt he headed up that would amaze folks probably even today and was considered totally off the wall then. Grimsley was back at AAA (Indianapolis at that time for the Reds) and was upset that he hadn’t been recalled. On an off day for the AAA team, Reaper and one or two other guys (sorry forget who else) got into a car and drove down to Cincy unannounced to confront Sparky, Howsam et al as what was going on with the Reds pitching and why they were stuck (in their minds) at AAA.

    And as far as the “black magic”, keep in mind that in addition to Grimsley in the rotation, the Reds also had Pedro Bourbon coming out of the pen….. Crazy fun times.

  5. Nice article John.

    I remember watching all those old pitchers you mentioned. You’ve substantiated the old saying: “You can never have enough pitching.”

    Say howdy to “Reptar” for me!

  6. John, thanks for a wonderful and intelligent insight into pitchers and attrition. Loved the reunion with past Reds pitchers, although the pitchers cited were all beset with injuries. A few years back I got into more than one “discussion” regarding the Reds allocation of draft choices between pitchers and position players. There was a distinct tilt towards using more than half of our high draft choices (1st round/comp picks/2nd round) on pitching (not to mention high $ international signings). I was, and continue to be, in favor of that

    One only needs to consider salary structure to support the allocation of a majority of the team’s high draft choices to pitching. In an era where even average starting pitchers get signed to huge contracts, the only way a small market team can compete is to develop their own starting pitching.

    The Reds made a concerted effort at the beginning of this season to put their young pitchers in roles where they would most likely succeed. Of course, too many here forget that the Reds also lost 2/5ths of their rotation to injury with a third pitcher last for months. How many teams have started 13 (I believe) different starters in 2/3 of a season? This has been due to injury as well as (unfortunately) most of the youngin’s having not risen to the occasion. Still we see rays of hope from pitchers like Castillo and Romano. Raise your hand if you predicted MLB success in 2017 from either of these two. I also don’t get too riled up about where Lorenzen is pitching this year. Many here want us to listen to offers for Iglesias. If we get a killer deal for him and trade him away, who is manning the back end of the bullpen who we can have real confidence in?

    In any case, again, great job John.

  7. Great article John.My only beef is starting Rookie and Garrett at the beginning of the year while Reed and Stephensen went to the pen after starting the year before.Granted in Reed’s 11 starts and Stephensen’s 8 they didn’t do much but I felt they just gave up on them after such a small sample size.Both have much better stuff and we really found out nothing unlike what we did in Finny’s 31 starts in 2016 and Disco’s 31 starts in 2015.What better time then this year to give those two or even Romano,Castillo or etc etc that same number of starts.I think we all could agree 31 starts tells you more then a handful does especially when a guy has to worry about being sent down if he gets hammered a few times.Finny’s first half last year was just terrible and he ended up being among the leaders in walks anyway but what if he had been sent down.He sure wouldn’t have been in the rotation this year nor would we have been excited about his future.We went from a good plan to evaluate young pitchers by letting them pitch regardless to one of a better not mess up or you get sent down.

    • Problem is Reed can’t get AAA batters out, while Bob Steve hasn’t been able to throw strikes (in MLB). Luckily for both, as well as the other hopefuls, there continues to be plenty of opportunity: for a pitcher or three that can rise to the occasion …

  8. Gary Nolan was and is one of my all time favorite Reds. If memory serves, on a cold spring day in Lakeland Gary struck out about 10 Tigers in 4 innings. Arm troubles followed.

  9. I usually try to be positive no matter how bad the season is going but except for the starting pitching the Reds look like they are a pretty good team but i have not been impressed with any of the young pitchers that we have gotten with draft picks much less trading away fan favorites like Phillips,Bruce,Cueto,Chapman,Frazier and on and on. I know not every trade will always work out but damn,all of the young arms we have are not worth just one of the names i have listed above. Sometimes i think St Louis sent Jocketty to Cincy to sabotage our team. I look at the minor league stats of the Reds young players and i wonder if we just traded for live bodies because it seems so far that we would have been just as well to let all of those guys walk as free agents since so far we have got nothing in return as far as arms go.

    • It is frustrating to see good players and fan favorites leave. Phillips played 10 years and did get his 72 million contract. His career is basically over. Bruce is a FA. The reds can sign him again….at 30x the cost of Jesse Winker or schebler per year. Cueto signed a 130 million contract…Chapman broke the record for a closer contract at 85 million and to extend Frazier in 2015 would have been 100 million.

      Those 5 players alone would have cost 100 million in payroll this year
      I liked Leake as well. Unfortunately the Reds can’t afford a 200 million payroll.
      I think your frustrations are shared by many ….but mostly it’s the nature of MLB now so the reds have to be more proactive and discerning.

  10. It would interesting to know the attrition rate amongst MLB teams and then, where the Reds rank. From there, what are the best teams doing differently to develop / protect the health of young pitchers.

    I think the Reds were smart to stockpile arms and I really wish they’d continue to stockpile more arms.

    Now, can they bend the attrition/development curve on a few of them.

    Remember, nearly every pitcher we’ve seen has all the talent necessary to pitch at the MLB level. The issues have been command of the zone and throwing quality strikes. THAT’S development.

  11. This article illustrates yet another reason why 2012 is such a frustrating memory for Reds fans. The pitching was not only there, it stayed healthy all season long. The starting five of Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Arroyo, and Leake made 161 starts that year (the only other one was a AAA-callup due to a double-header). Ever since that year, it’s been impossible to get through Spring Training without an injury to a member of the rotation. The Cueto injury in game one of the NLDS altered the Reds postseason rotation plans, but one can’t help but wonder. What if Walt Jocketty had made one more trade deadline upgrade that year (aside from trading for Broxton)? With Votto on the DL facing an extended absence and a CF (Stubbs) who couldn’t hit, what if the Reds had added one more bat to the lineup at the end of July when the Reds only had a 3-game lead in the division. Would that one bat have made a difference in Game 3 of the NLDS? We will never know.

    • this is why I will always hold antipathy towards Walt and Bob. With the brass ring in sight, they didn’t reach for it.

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