Titanic Struggle Recap

Reds Sal-vage final game of home stand

The Reds won their 41st game this afternoon, defeating the Miami Marlins. It was the second glorious win for the club on this home stand. In those two games, they far outscored their opponents 10-6. Combined with Milwaukee’s loss to the Phillies, the Reds sliced another game off the Brewers lead in the NL Central. The Reds are now three games ahead of their 2016 pace.

Are you sick of winning, yet?

The victory gives the club tremendous momentum as they leave on a crucial 10-game road trip, with stops in Cleveland, New York (Yankees), Miami and Pittsburgh.

Cincinnati Reds 6 • Miami Marlins 3 || Box || Play Log || Statcast

Sal Romano had an excellent start, giving up one run over six innings and 98 pitches. Pumping 94-97 mph fastballs, the 23-year-old from Rutgers had 7 strikeouts. He gave up a walk and three hits, including a solo home run in the 4th inning. The start was Romano’s best of the four he has made with the Reds and the first time the rookie has made it past five innings.

Romano has showed steady improvement that started in the second half of last year at AA and continued through spring training. Romano is pitching the in the place of Scott Feldman, who is on the DL.

Isn’t in interesting watching young pitchers like Romano, Robert Stephenson and Luis Castillo? In an unrelated message, Tim Adleman takes the mound for the Reds against Cleveland tomorrow night.

Raisel Iglesias came in for a 2-inning save. This was just the sixth time Iglesias has appeared in back-to-back games. And it was the first time he’d pitched multiple innings after appearing the day before. Sorta, kinda felt like a showcase.

Scooter Gennett drove in two runs, the first on a solo GABP front-row special home run and the second on a line drive single to right.

Eugenio Suarez continued to hit well after the break, with his fourth home run during the home stand. Suarez is also the new star of a hilarious rain delay video the Reds are using at GABP. It features Suarez “dancing” to several styles of music, including salsa and the Ramones.

Tucker Barnhart added a home run, his third of the season. Billy Hamilton had three hits.

Adam Duvall made an outstanding defensive play on a fly ball, sliding in foul territory and slamming up against the wall. Duvall also had a single and got hit by a pitch.

55 thoughts on “Reds Sal-vage final game of home stand

  1. Things I thought I would never see. In the 10 games since the All Star break Hamilton is hitting .400 and Votto is hitting .083.

    • BH has 4 fewer hits on the season than does JV. Big difference in OBP, however.

  2. I do like it when they let the young guys pitch.Homer and 4 young guys would be just great to watch.No reason not to do it for the rest of the year.Big Sal was a bad man today.What impressed me most was his last two innings.He had the lead and just mowed em down.I love it when a young guy can rise up at the right time and get it done.Yeah Its one game but lots of good things about his performance.

    • Since adding Lorenzen to the starting rotation makes so much sense and Price is manufacturing lame excuses for not moving Lorenzen to the starting rotation, I see no posibility that such a move will be made this season. How about getting Stephens back up from the Bats, slap a wishbone C on his cap and replace Adelman in the staring rotation? Bailey, Castillo, Stephenson, Romano & Stephens until someone else is ready and someone proves they’re not ready yet.

      • Its fun watching Castillo/Bailey/Stephenson and Romano pitch.Htere hope and optimism. Price curiously seems to enjoy squelching that as he did in the postgame saying they will get few starts until Feldman and Disco are ready.
        I though Lorenzen threw fine today. He gave up the solid double but for whatever reason players tend to foul off pitches and he cant pitch to contact well at times. They flared one to right and then Ozuna hits a 7 hopper up the middle on a perfect outside pitch with Cozart pulled around in the hole.
        The talent and potential taking the mound is much better these days.

  3. A good outing for Sal in 6 innings with 3H, 1BB and 7SO’s. A positive sendoff on the four city/ten game road trip. What’s happened to Votto’s proven eye in taking so many third strikes? Occasional rest seems to be in order. But, Billy is recently getting it done at the plate.

    • The topper was that a lot of Romano’s SO came in the 1st 2 innings when he needed them to get out of trouble. Great job today by Big Sal.

  4. Yeah, maybe a showcase for Iglesias. But the guys really needed a win and he was their best choice to get one.

    • In one game earlier this week, the TV announcers made it quite clear that scouts who are “decision-makers” were in town, and they said that when Iglesias was pitching. Seems clear Dick Williams will listen to offers for Iglesias, as he should. He has said he won’t trade any of the young core of players unless someone who can help very soon comes back in return. It would be nice if some other general manager made a crazy offer, but I’m not holding my breath for that. Iglesias still has four years of team control, so there’s absolutely no reason to part with him unless someone makes a literally stupid offer.

      • The really nice upside regarding a potential Iggy trade is the stockpile of really good relief pitchers crowding to join the 25-man roster in 2018 or 2019. There could be very few oppotunities in the bullpen for relievers not making league minimum and some decisions waiting to be made regarding Cingrani and Wood.

        The Reds are going to need a GM and manager in-synch and with the cahounas to make some tough decisions regarding the roster and on-field roster management over the post season and into next season.

        Unless the Reds management team intends to utilize the bullpen creatively and without the outdated book as a guide, they really don’t need Lorenzen, Iggy or Peralta in the bullpen going forward.

  5. I don’t think Price is showcasing Iglesias. With the Reds winning so few games, it makes sense to make sure they hold a lead when they have one late. In the only two wins of this homestand we saw a lot of both Lorenzen and Iglesias.

    I’ll even defend his use of Lorenzen with a 5 run lead. There were still 3 innings left, the Marlins have some power bats and they had several good hitters on the bench who were getting rested like Ozuna, who did drive in a run with a pinch hit.
    Plus Scooter homered while breaking his bat and Suarez homered on a pop up to LF, it was like pre-humidifier Coors Field.

    As it developed, Michael gave up two runs (one unearned), maybe a lesser pitcher would have given up more. And I have no problem at all with Iglesias coming in for the final two innings with a 3 run lead. If the lead had stayed at 5, we wouldn’t have seen Iglesias today.

  6. Very nice to see an encouraging start from Stephenson followed by an excellent one from Romano. The really good news is that they are both slated to remain in the starting rotation, along with Castillo.

    Stephens and Mahle are pitching pretty well at AAA, I don’t mean to dump on Adelman but he’s a middle reliever and Price said the rest of this season is about figuring out what the 2018 starting rotation will be.

    Reed and Garrett are still struggling mightily at AAA. With their stuff, I just don’t get that.

    • At what point is it acceptable not to play your best at the ML level. Adleman leads the Reds staff with 88 strike outs . He’s 2nd in quality starts with 7 . He’s arguably the 2nd most reliable sp the Reds have this year. Were there a couple guys at Louisville throwing shutouts, it might be a different story.. But that’s not the case. Adleman gives the Reds a better chance to win tomorrow night than giving the start to anyone in Louisville & so Tim belongs in the rotation.

      • Not discounting Adelman’s performance this season or even last season, but we’ve seen Adelman’s upside over the past 2 seasons. He’s a #5 starter or a bullpen swingman on a good staff. He happens to be pitching on an historically bad staff. What we don’t know is what some of the other potential starters can do in an extended look at the major league level. If Adelman pans out to be the 5th best starter available going into the 2018 season, I’m good with him in the starting rotation at that time. If he’s not the 5th best starter (or even in the top 8), then the Reds are wasting the opportunity to identify the actual top starters ready to pitch in the show by continuing to run Adelman out to the bump as a starter.

        What scares me even more than continuing to run Adelman out as a starter is the knowledge that Price will also run Feldman out as a starter as soon as he comes off the DL.

        • Price said that today- That Romano and Stephenson will get more starts but only until Feldman and Disco are ready. Williams did an extensive interview the other day with the Reds enquirer beat writers- Zach Bucahan and Ctrent….Paraphrasing, his contract has language that will prevent the decision on his return from going down to the last week of the season. Williams would not discuss his timing for that decision.

          I could see a scenario where Price is let go Labor Day weekend with an interim manager in place for the final 28 games. The marching orders to the interim manager and the message to the team would be September is important. Players who want to stake their claim for starting roles in spring training in 2018 get their opportunity. The competition for rotation spots in 2018 begins in September of 2017. Jesse Winker gets 28 games to show his stuff, knowing he is playing every day whether he is 0-4 or 2-3 with 2 walks. Adelman and Feldman and are out of the rotation. Cozart is shut down for the season and Peraza gets the final 25 games of for an extended look at what he can do every day at shortstop. It’s September sorting.
          It also gives the Reds a head start in identifying the new manager for 2018.

          Wishful thinking perhaps but if Price isn’t coming back, I don’t see why you time that decision for September 25th.

      • Adleman is ok, but they need to learn about their young guys. Adleman is not part of the future….not even in middle relief. He could be on a 90+ loss team like this, but not on a good team. He’s def better then Stephenson but they need to give the young guys a chance. Adleman will be 30 this year. Jackson Stephens is 23 and was throwing 95-96 vs the Cubs. Tyler Mahle is only 22 and he’s been pitching well at AAA. Even Wojo/Bonilla are younger and have much better stuff then Adleman.

        Knowing Price…your opinion will win out anyway. It will Adleman and Feldman thru the end and they’ll be just as confused about their rotation next March as they are now. “Best chance to win” proponents lose (see Arroyo and Rookie Davis) and fans of a “total rebuild” lose as well. The perfect Reds lose/lose scenario that they give their loyal fans.

      • Adleman has more QS than Madison Bumgarner. I think Adleman is the best SP in the league, IMO.

        • Don’t completely discount the QS stat. It is an indicator that the SP is giving his team a chance to win the game. As you know though, QS% is where it’s at!! I know you’re joking but wanted to say that QS isn’t worthless as an indicator.

    • It really is encouraging to see signs of life from young Reds starters. I’m not as sold on Garret’s stuff as I’d like to be, though. He was briefly impressive early in the season, but the hitters quickly caught up with him. Injury issues probably account for some of that, but he’s reminding me of Cingrani right now. Early days, I know.

  7. I love Votto and I’m not worried about him or his health, I think he’s just tired (mentally and physically) but won’t admit it. Participating in the All Star game festivities sometimes has that effect on players, and Votto mysteriously said that in future years when he’s in the all star game he’s going to do things differently.

    I mention “mentally tired” because he’s not just slumping at the plate. Today he was thrown out by 30 feet by Stanton while trying to take 3rd with 2 outs. That robbed Suarez of a chance to hit a 3 run HR, he had to settle for a solo HR instead.

    There are other things, like his taking away a double play by the Reds on Friday night by not having his foot on first base when Dee wandered too far on the fly ball to Duvall. And his taking called 3rd strikes, one to end a game, on strikes that are not even borderline.

    And speaking of his slump, his big contribution today was a ground ball to the pitcher that would have been a rally killing double play, except Koehler threw the ball away.

    Price says he doesn’t see anything to indicate Joey needs a day off, I don’t know what he’s looking at.

    • Yeah, that’s more window dressing and gobbledygook from Price. As this season clanks along and we hear more and more from Price, I am less and less enthralled with his capability as a manager. I really wanted Price to succeed when he was hired, but he just keeps proving that he’s the wrong man for the job.

      • Well, I think it is safe to say that Price is not a miracle worker. But who do you think could manage this team to .500? And what would they be doing differently? Hamilton batting 9th, Lorenzen starting. Would that really do it? Now if the team starts playing with their heads down, expecting to lose, minds elsewhere…then he isn’t doing his job. I’m not sure I see that, at least not yet. Not saying he should keep his job, and sometimes a new face can have a beneficial impact, but he hasn’t had the best horses to run with.

        • I don’t measure a manager’s performance by wins and loses. A good manager with a poor team will not have a good record and a poor manager with a good team will have a good record. I don’t really even subscribe to measuring the manager’s impact on wins and loses. I have not seen a definitive, realistic or even plausible, not to meantion measurable explanation of a manager’s impact.

          Does a manager put the players in the best position to win?
          Does a manager make decisions that place the team in the best position to win? Does a manager have the creativity needed to manage in adverse situations?
          Does a manager have the flexibility alter his way of thinking?
          Does a manager have the respect of the players and management?
          Does a manager effectively communicate his insight and direction?
          Does a manager have higher expectations for himself than he does his players?
          Does a manager not only expect excellence, but insists on excellence in execution?

          Those are the types of questions I use to evaluate a managers performance. The answers are completely subjective and therefore open to debate. When I view Price’s p[erformance as a manager, I do not see a manager capable of providing positive answers to these types of questions. When Price was hired, I thought he represented an individual with the experience and track record to be a good manager. That has long since failed to be the case over the past 3 years.

          • Agree with PJ. Would add Sparky Anderson’s view was every team was going to win 1/3 and lose 1/3 regardless of what the manager did or did not do. Also he inferred in the 1/3 of games the manager might impact, success was very often more about staying out of the way and not making a move than actually making a change. This from the man known as Capt. Hook for the way he managed his pitching.

          • These are excellent questions…and yes the answers are subjective…but also we are on the outside looking in….and can only get glimpses of evidence on how to answer them. For instance, how would we ever know if Price effectively communicates his insights and direction…or even what insights and directions he’s communicating. I guess you could say that what we hear him say in clips doesn’t sound like he has much insight, but we don’t know what he says to his players, as a group or one-on-one. I have read things where he seems to know what his pitcher’s problems are (mechanical and mental), but he can’t seem to get them to fix those problems. Is he demanding execution from them…you can demand all you want, but if the talent isn’t there or is still too raw, you still have to put a starter on the mound. All I can say it doesn’t seem like anyone on the team is saying “get me the h–ll out of here!”

            I guess it is evident that there isn’t a lot of flexibility and creativity being shown, since line ups, rotations, relief strategies seem pretty fixed, but you can’t piece together an inside straight if the cards aren’t there.

        • Lets compare Price to Clint Hurdle with the Pirates (49-50). Their ace Gerrit Cole has only been so-so (4.18 era). Taillon missed time with his cancer treatments/surgery and only has 73 ip. Phenom Tyler Glasnow was bad and got sent down. Tony Watson failed as a closer. Offensively…one of their big dogs, Starling Marte missed half the season and just came back. He found a way to hang around? They’re not that good….can’t even beat the Reds head to head, but Hurdle finds a way. Price needs to go….make no mistake!

          • Starting pitching, basically. Can’t out manage a starting rotation like the Reds.

          • One could easily compare Price to Hurdle and say:

            Price was without his 3 best starters for most of the year. Unlike the Pirates, the Reds are still rebuilding so Price’s ability to win is suppressed by the greater organizational need to sort and experiment. Despite this, Price has won 1 fewer game every 2 weeks than Clint Hurdle.

          • My main problem with Price is the half-in, half-out use of young players, pitchers particularly. It may not be his decision, but continuing to run Adleman and Feldman out there at this point is mystifying. There’s no longer reason for any pretence that the Reds are in the hunt this year, and Castillo, Stephenson and Romano, at least, need to get enough reps to build upon for next year and beyond.

          • Price is not the problem. The Reds don’t have enough good players. The Reds pitching staff is the worst in baseball. Those who try to blame managers for losses are looking for simple answers. As I recall the same group was always finding fault with Dusty Baker who is on his way to another fine season.

  8. Another tough outing by Cody Reed tonight, but not an outright disaster.

    6.0 IP w/ 6-H, 2-BB, 4-ER, 5-SO

    I don’t know if anyone noticed, but DeShields has given up on his ‘experiment’ with Winker leading off and has Winker hitting in the #5 hole since the Reds sent him back to AAA. Winker continues to lead the league in OBP and went 2-5 w/ 1-2B tonight. DeShields also has Blandino hitting in the #6 hole behind Winker.

    Tonight, DeShields had Goeddel (.234 OBP), Ervin (.326 OBP), Elizalde (.349 OBP) & Wallach (.265 OBP) hitting ion the top half of the lineup with Winker (.389 OBP) & Blandino (.368 OBP) hitting behind them.

    • Reds need an enema of the managerial position at both AAA and the big league levels.

    • It continues to baffle me how “baseball guys” are so stupid when it comes to simple concepts.

      • And we commentators are so smart. It is amazing baseball has not discovered us.

        • Arroyo hasn’t pitched in 3 years and his fastball tops out at 83. I wonder how he’ll do? Jason Marquis has been bad for 5-6 seasons now, but I wonder if he can suddenly turn it around?

          This isn’t rocket science. You could be blind and just listen to the sound of wood meeting ball and know that Reds management is often oblivious to reality.

  9. To me, it looks like we have something of a backlog of guys who have either on the big club or working stuff out at AAA. Many don’t have a spot on the MLB roster, but they can’t stay in AAA forever. Something has gotta give. Some of these young pitchers are going to have to:

    a) Join the Reds rotation

    b) Join the Reds bullpen

    c) Join another organization

    The Reds need to start making the hard choices on this matter. Putting off the sorting process not only stalls the rebuild, but it also negates the value of prospects your not going to keep.

    • If they can’t make this rotation then they have no real value! Their control is so spotty that I don’t know how they’d make it in the pen? Garrett doesn’t have a big breaking ball for lefties so loogy looks unlikely? The one guy that looks good is Wojo! He seems to be able to get them out one time thru, which could make him ok for the pen. The 2 guys I want to see are Mahle and Jackson Stephens. I think the time is fast approaching to call BobSteve and Reed busts. Garrett is an unknown, but most likely a back of the rotation guy at best.

  10. The ability to get on base with some pop and then speed enough to score from first base on a double in the gap has been the model for some time in baseball.Price and Deshields take line up construction to a new level.They don’t value getting on base at all and the left then right then left lineup is just nutty.

  11. Indy,I agree 100% but I really fear giving up on Bob Steve and Reed right now.I could see one of them probably Stephenson being given 20 or 25 starts as a last chance by some other team and he finally gets it.Garrett doesn’t have the power arm and unless he does develop that big hook he is as you say he is.

    • There is no need to give up on anyone who has options, unless there are five better starters than him at Class AAA. That might be time to say sayonara.

    • Agree. The last thing we want is for Stephenson to be the next Arrieta. Gets traded out of the organization and becomes a Cy Young Award candidate. I’m not saying that will happen, I’m just saying that his stuff suggests that it may be possible.

  12. The bullpen for 2018 seems to be mostly set already. Iglesias, Lorenzen, Peralta, Cingrani, and Wojo. That is 5 spots taken with 2 to fill from the minor league system. They have Astin, Brice, Hernandez, Herget, Shackleford, and Weiss, among others to battle it out for those 2 spots. Finnegan and Reed may be added to this mix.
    Bye-bye Blake Wood.
    There really isn’t a need to move any more failed starters to the bullpen for 2018. Davis, Stephens and Garrett have to figure it out at AAA first.
    Time to start sorting some over to the Trade basket from the Keeper basket. Can’t keep them all.

    • Lorenzen is reportedly competing for a rotation spot next spring. So if he wins that, they will have another spot open. I could see them signing a veteran.

    • I assume that Lorenzen is going to be given a chance to start in 2018. I would add Cingrani to the non-keeper basket. I’m good with Finnegan moving to the bullpen, since his arm can’t seem to hold up to starting.

  13. I saw where the Phillies were talking to Detroit about Michael Fulmer. The Reds should throw in whatever it takes to get it done short of Senzel. He’s 24 and a solid #2 type starter (3.35 era) and only allowed 8 hrs this year!

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