2017 Reds / Milton / Titanic Struggle Recap

Recap: Welcome to the second half!

Final R H E
Washington Nationals (53-36) 5 9 0
Cincinnati Reds (39-50) 0 7 0
W: Gonzalez (8-4) L: Adleman (5-7) S: Grace (1)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–Adam Duvall had two hits, including a double.

–The Reds bullpen — Ariel Hernandez, Asher Wojciechowski, Drew Storen, Tony Cingrani — pitched 4.2 shutout innings, surrendering just two hits and striking out seven.

The Bad
–The Reds were shut out, for only the second time all season. Only four hits before the ninth inning; heck, only two runners advanced as far as second base until the final frame. That’s bad, right?

–I think Tim Adleman may have hit the wall a little bit. Tonight, Adleman gave up 5 runs on 7 hits and 3 walks — thanks mostly to Bryce Harper (2 home runs), who is a good baseball player — in 4.1 innings. That’s five straight starts in which his ERA has gotten worse; it’s now at 4.99.

Adleman has been adequate this season, and I’m very pleased with what he’s done for the Reds. But let’s not be delusional about his ability. I’m inclined to like the guy — because he has a cool story of perseverance, plus he went to my alma mater — but he’s just okay.

–Tucker Barnhart legged out an infield single and appeared to come up hobbling. He stayed in the game, though.

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–What else to say? That was a meh game if ever I saw one. I would’ve posted a pic of Milton, but I didn’t want to burden you with that after the first game of the season’s second half.

–The Reds lost. Whatever. I’ll be at GABP the next couple of days, so I’m pretty sure the Reds will bring home a couple of weekend wins. Hashtag-good-luck-charm.

–Luis Castillo vs. Max Scherzer tomorrow. I legitimately can not wait.

Today’s Tweets

35 thoughts on “Recap: Welcome to the second half!

  1. Pen did good but other then that well it just wasn’t a good night.We struggle against a left hander and although Gonzales is good he sets at just 90-91 so you would have thought we would have done more.Get em tomorrow.

    • Gonzales may well illustrate that velocity alone is not enough to guarantee effectiveness. Lots of pitchers throw really hard now, and hitters are being conditioned to view that as normal. Great action and location will always present problems for hitters, but that sort of pitching is much harder to master than heat, so relatively few pitchers seem to try.

    • Ok, just now reading the comments from this game so sorry this is so late… Gonzalez doesn’t throw hard but he’s got great movement, changes speeds well, and locates. The Reds aren’t the only team that can’t seem to hit him. He’s 8-4 with a 2.66 ERA this year. He strikes out almost a batter per inning. He’s a tough pitcher and against MLB hitters, command and keeping hitters off balance is as important as being able to call upon velocity to get it by them.

  2. Didn’t see the game but wondered why the box shows two guys hitting in the low .200’s were used to ph while Winker still sits. I’d rather see him even against a lefty.

    • Amen. I was at the game and I cringed every time I saw who came up to pinch hit while Gennett and Winker sat

    • It’s almost like Price has something against Winker . Hope this it the last “second half ” of his managerial career with the Reds. Time for him to go …

  3. I was hearing Slip Slidin’ Away by the end of the first inning; and, I found other things to occupy myself. Checked back a little later and it was 5 nil in the top of the 5th;Adleman done. Turned the sports TV off and got on with life. Don’t understand why they keep wasting opportunity on Adleman. He would still be there later down the road if they really needed him just to fill a gap. For now, they should be giving prospects his starts.

      • How is Adleman and the starting pitching sorting process synonymous? The Reds should get on with the sorting of their young pitchers if they are going to be a contending team in the ensuing years. It’s not a brilliant deduction to figure Adleman could have a role in the relief corps or be included in a trade.

  4. It’s obvious that Winker is here so they have an extra body and to give him a well deserved week at major league pay. Since he’s not here for real, there is limited upside in giving him any real time and they don’t want to risk him getting hurt and losing half a season of service time on the DL.

    No, Bryan Price doesn’t get to unilaterally determine how the organization’s top prospect is handled…..he likely has very limited to zero input on when Winker plays. Nor would Joe Maddon nor would Joe Torre. This is a billion dollar business, not little league.

    • Unbelievable that you continue to make this same argument, over and over and over. Quit making excuses for Price’s ineptitude. Not playing him because they are worried bout him getting hurt , really ??? That’s flat out weak !!!

      • I’m not making any excuses. I don’t believe I’ve ever stated anything positive about Price. I at least recognize what he can control and what he can’t control

        You’re the one who can’t seem to grasp that managers….especially one’s who have 3 months left on their contract….don’t decide how the organization is going to handle their top prospect. Winker is an assets potentially worth millions to the organization. A guy with 5 direct deposits left isn’t the one that decides when he plays.

        • I grasp it completely – Worried about him getting hurt as a reason to not play him – ???? You could say that about any single player they have on the roster. I don’t care how many more months he has left on his contract – he fills out the lineup card, takes it to home plate before every game, and hands it to the umpire . He has a complete roster of players at his disposal . If they are so worried about getting Winker hurt , shut him down for the year. Obviously , I’m not positive about Price either. I’m certainly not gonna give him a crutch that he can’t play Winker because he’s being told not to. That doesn’t make sense. Let the guy play already for crying out loud. This shuffling back and and forth between Louisville without getting any meaningful playing time is plain insanity. If this is what hey are doing with Winker , how are they gonna handle Greene?

          • Do you think Price is coming back? Good discourse on what is under Price’s control and what is not. ..I don’t think he controls a whole lot. Price doesn’t control Winker’s playing time. He doesn’t control whether Hamilton plays cf every day and bats leadoff. Arroyo and Adelman as starters were/are not his decisions. While he might control what day Scooter plays second base…there are general parameters for Peraza playing time, which are not his. He controls whether Barnhart hits 6th or 7th and what 2 days of the month Alcantara starts and double switches and pitching changes. I do think he was a proponent for the bullpen role of Reed and Stephenson and probably was listened to as a pitching coach…..which obviously backfired.

            DW will replace him when he thinks the window of winning starts to give his next manager a great chance to succeed and make the playoffs……and that’s probably not next year unless Homer bailey and Luis Castillo light up the second half of the season. I am coming to think there may be a plan to bring Price back.

          • Cubs admitted publicly that they were (at least) a season earlier (in 2015) than they anticipated reaching the playoffs yet they already had Maddon in place. Along the same line, I think next season (2018) is the year the guy DW hopes will be the Reds next playoff manager takes charge.

            They only they keep Price for 2018 is if either of two opposite extremes happens in the remainder of the season. On the positive extreme, they somehow win the division or win at the minimum enough games to get them over 80 wins for the season (42-32 record post ASB minimum). On the negative side, if the starting pitching is still so cratered we can’t name at 2017 season’s end at least two, preferably 3, of the starters for 2018 with any certainty or if Votto gets injured and looks like a ??? for 2018.

          • Lets look at this not from a fans perspective, but a hypothetical Dick Williams perspective:

            1. I’m committed to my 3 current outfielders….for now.
            2. If I take time away from Duvall or Scheibler their agents are going to be pissed since I’m lower their arbitration comps.
            3. A lot is riding on Hamilton and I need him to play out the year before I make some major decisions.
            4. Giving Winker a handful of at bats doesn’t tell me anything.
            5. If Winker gets hurt in Louisville it’s unfortunate. If he gets hurt on the MLB roster we lose almost half a year of service time.

            I’m not defending or endorsing any of these reasons, but Dick Williams has to think about the Reds over the next few years and most of us just want them to beat Washington today

          • Chuck, I do not deeply disagree with any of your observations except I doubt that #2 is really on the radar yet since neither guy (Duvall or Schebler) will be eligible for arbitration until after the 2018 season at the earliest.

            My thought is that Winkier needs to be playing regardless of what classification he is at. If he is not going to play at MLB, send him back to AAA and bring up somebody else. What would be wrong with using Iribarren in this role like they did last year? Are 40 man roster spots that precious right now?

            Here’s an alternative proposal, an outfield rotation. 4 guys for 3 OF spots means that in a rotation system, everybody plays 3 days out of 4 (Schebler plays CF when Hamilton is off). If they need/ want to play Hamilton “every day” to finish sorting him out, then 3 guys for 2 spots means the rotation members play 2 of every 3 games.

        • You know, if we have another GABP RLN get together, it was said it might be possible to get DW in the room. We had access to to AGMs last year and they were quite candid in answering our questions. If we get a chance at an AGM or the head honcho this year, I think that would be a good question to bring up. I think I know the answer though. It would be very, very hard, from a “baseball” perspective, to take Duvall or WInker out even 1/4 of the time, with how they have performed, in the name of giving the young guy ABs.

          “At my expense? Why? What did I do wrong? Am I not playing up to your standards? I feel good!! I’m playing well! What the he**!!??” … I know that’s how I’d take it if I was told I was going to be part of a rotation and was playing well and feeling well. And when I get “You need to be a team player.” I’d come back with “Well, the TEAM, the guys I play with want to win ballgames. I want to win ballgames. The best way to do that is to let me play every day. I’m better than that kid.” This is even more effective when your play on the field is backing up your words and your teammates also think the best way to win ballgames is by having you on the field.

          Honestly, that’s the attitude I want out of a player too.

      • In fairness, Chuck makes that point fairly frequently, and other people repeatedly make the point that Winker should get more at-bats. We’re all guessing and discussing it with each other. That’s what we do.

    • The paradox with Winker is that they are frittering away MLB service days getting while nothing in return.

      Even if he is sent back down in the near future, they will have close to a month to burn off next year if they want to attain that “extra” year of player control once he (presumably) is up to stay “forever” next season. Should he be sent down soon but then brought back in the September roster call up, add on another ~30 days of needed burn down time.

      Factor in that he is rarely used at the MLB level; and, it is a scenario more befitting of a marginal prospect than a player seen as a core piece in the next competitive iteration of the team.

      As far as the money, yes, at MLB he is making about 6 times more in direct salary than he would be at in the minors as 40 man roster player on option. However even on option he is a member of the MLBPA and eligible to share in their various royalty schemes. Plus, he got a $1M signing bonus when he was drafted….

    • I agree there is an organizational plan for playing time and roles. What I don’t understand is why the Cincinnati media don’t ask simple questions

      Brian- Jesse winker had an All Star first half at AAA. What’s the organizational plan for him the second half?

      Couldn’t you use his on base skills with some other players struggling?

      Those aren’t tough questions.

  5. I think that if I were Jesse Winker’s father I would demand! that Bryan Price start him, or take him to a Babe Ruth team citing a billion reasons why the Red’s don’t deserve him!

    • I don’t know about that? With the exception of Scooter, Price rolls the same lineup out every time. Is he going to sit Duvall, Hamilton or Schebler? Don’t think so.

      • If Billy is not going to steal in the first inning, you might as well have Winker lead off

        He might have created some Mo there after beating out the infield single. He bluffs twice and then gets doubled off and Gio settles in

        Sigh

  6. I actually thought Winker would get some playing time but of course I think that every time he comes up.Not sure what the plan actually is for him but they do have a plan and I can only hope they have shared it with him.Jason’s column on Getting to the Big Leagues told me they do have a plan for each player and they have a reason for everything they do.I would think its safe to say Winker is the top prospect as far as position players are concerned and if Schebler or Duvall had faltered he would have already been here and playing.Since the front office is driving the boat without much input from Price then it is obvious that they will let Billy continue to play center and lead off so that kind of says Winker sets.We will see how it plays out but last night was against a lefty and it was only the first game back so who knows.

  7. Until Bryan Price is told by the front office that he has to start playing Jesse Winker, for example, Price is going to keep managing like the goal is winning the NL Central. He’s not going to bench Duvall or Schebler – players he rightly believes are better than Jesse Winker right now – for the sake of Winker’s development. Price is trying to keep the clubhouse motivated. That’s why he pushes back publicly on the idea of rebuilding.

    But we do see with Jose Peraza where the organization has made the decision, and Price is executing it, to give a prospect playing time, whether or not it improves the odds of winning a particular game.

    If I was the manager, I’d start Winker in RF and Schebler in CF. But I understand why Price doesn’t do that without direction from the FO.

    The lack of playing time for Winker is mostly on the FO, not Price. And pinch hitting decisions, for better or worse, are dictated by handedness, which is why Price passed up Gennett and Winker last night vs. Gio. Did you see how Votto did against Gonzalez?

    • I was at the game. Gonzalez pitched a gem. Another solid “pitcher” who doesn’t need 97 mph to succeed .Grienke/Tanaka/Alex Wood/Stroman have done the same against the Red-legs this year and shut down this offense.
      Bryce Harper against Adelman was unfair.
      Talked to some Nats fans. They are happy with their outfield situation and infield until Turner comes back. They are mortified about their bullpen.

  8. Old School you are right on.Why wouldn’t somebody in the media ask about the plan for Winker or better yet why wouldn’t they just announce the plan.Surely Winker knows and wouldn’t you think the other outfielders would know as well.I believe they have to because as Steve said Price is trying to keep the clubhouse motivated and one way to lose the team is by not being honest and straight forward with all parties involving playing time.

  9. I have to think that Adelman’s time in the starting rotation has passed. I will be absolutely stunned if we see Adelman on the bump when his next turn in the rotation comes up on Wednesday, 7/19/17 against the Snakes.

    Romano pitched on Thursday for the Bats and I expect the Reds to bring him back for his next start which would be on Tuesday, 7/18/17, against the Snakes.

    Castillo goes today.
    Bailey is scheduled to go tomorrow.
    Feldman could line up to pitch on Monday against the Nats.
    Romano lines up to pitch on Tuesday against the Snakes.
    Adelman would be scheduled to start on Wednesday against the Snakes.

    Stephens was rocked last night, but will be available to start again on Wednesday.
    Reed pitched on Thursday and has been rocked in his last 3 starts in AAA.
    Garrett is scheduled to pitch tomorrow and has had mixed results in his 3 starts since coming off the DL.
    Mahle is scheduled to pitch today, is not on the 40-man roster and was rocked in his last outing.

    Robert Stephenson has not pitched in 8 days and is not scheduled to pitch for at least the next 2 days, but Stephenson has given up just 4-BB in his last 5 outings (25.1 IP). In his last 3 outings (15.2 IP), Stephenson has 0-BB, 11-H, 3-HR, 18-SO, 2-ER. Stephenson has been nursing a blister problem on his pitching hand. His last outing was just 3.0 IP in a relief role. Has Stephenson earned another [extended] shot in the Reds starting rotation?

    I don’t see anyone else stepping up to sieze the opportunity. If not Stephenson, then whom? Please, let’s not see Adelman or Wojo or Bonilla or any other stopgap pitcher.

  10. Tanner Rainey pulled off an unusual ‘accomplishment’ last night for the Tortugas. He pitched 1.0 inning in relief, giving up 1-H (single) with 3-SO and 0-BB, yet gave up 1-ER. Ouch! But it was his own fault.

    • Well I appreciate the heads up and reference, but the Old Cossack’s Old Computer doesn’t play well with MLB any more so I’ll just assume the worst. I think that’s probably a safe bet.

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