2017 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Recap: Sal Romano picks up his first big league victory, Reds split series in Colorado

Final R H E
Cincinnati Reds (37-48) 6 13 3
Colorado Rockies (50-38) 3 8 0
W: Romano (1-1) L: Chatwood (6-10)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–In his second big league appearance, nearly three months ago, Sal Romano was much more effective. Romano pitched 5 innings, allowing two runs on six hits and a walk; he struck out six hitters. Until the fifth inning, Romano was completely in command. Congratulations to the kid on picking up his first MLB victory.

–A number of Redlegs contributed to the offensive attack today. At the top of that list is Adam Duvall, who had a double and his 20th home run, along with 2 RBI. Eugenio Suarez was 3 for 5 with a double, an RBI, and a run scored.

Scott Schebler was 2-5 with a double, a run scored, and an RBI. Scooter Gennett doubled and walked twice, and scored two runs. Joey Votto singled, walked twice, and knocked in a run. Heck, even Billy Hamilton tripled.

–Wandy Peralta and Michael Lorenzen each pitched a perfect inning of relief.

–All-Star shortstop Zack Cozart had a two-run pinch-hit double in the 8th inning.

–Raisel Iglesias pitched the last two innings and was mostly effective, striking out four. He did give up one run, partially due to a Schebler error.

The Bad
–Errors, errors, errors…Cincinnati had three miscues today. Besides Schebler’s error in the eighth inning noted above, Jose Peraza (ground ball) and Stuart Turner (throw) each committed errors.

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–The ol’ Redlegs split a four-game series in Colorado. Given that (a) the Rockies are a pretty good team, and (b) the Reds have been awful on the road in 2017, I’m pretty satisfied with a split. Heck, I’m pumped up about the fact that the Reds were actually competitive in all four games. At least that’s fun to watch.

–I was at GABP for Romano’s big league debut, surrounded by about forty of his friends and family. I was surprised at Big Sal’s velocity that day — he was clearly amped up — but he was not sharp and it was a short day.

Before today’s start, Romano talked specifically about the fact that he was overthrowing in that first appearance:

“I want to feel like I belong,” Romano said. “I’m not going to try to overthrow tomorrow. I will work my 93-95, that’s when my sinker is at its best. I still have 96, 97 and 98 in the tank and there are certain times I can use that.”

Romano certainly did that today. It’s really strange to see a young Cincinnati pitcher identify a weakness and take immediate steps to correct it. What’s that all about?

–Duvall is tied with Colorado’s Nolan Arenado for the most extra-base hits in the National League (47). Votto is fourth, with 44.

–Speaking of Duvall, he’s hitting .280/.325/.564 with 20 homers and 61 RBI; his wOBA is .367 and his wRC+ is 124. Those of us who thought Duvall was due to come back to earth a little after his All-Star 2016 have been very, very wrong.

He’s the real deal. I love it when a plan comes together.

–That’s seven consecutive games in which the Reds starter has pitched at least five innings. I could get used to this.

(Though it’s kinda sad that we can be happy about getting just five innings from Reds starters.)

–The Reds head out to Arizona tomorrow for a weekend series against the Diamondbacks that will put the finishing touches on the first half of the season. Tim Adleman gets the start tomorrow evening.

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103 thoughts on “Recap: Sal Romano picks up his first big league victory, Reds split series in Colorado

  1. Go Reds.
    Maybe those 5 inning starts will be 6 2/3 in a month.
    I did not see the game, but Romano talking about not overthrowing is music to my ears.
    Aaron Harang was a solid pitcher who sat easy at 93-95 and was a workhorse for a period of time. I would love it if Big Sal could throw easy, stay healthy and become that 200 inning 30 start workhorse this franchise so desperately needs.

    Congrats to Duvall as well. He is the best left fielder this team has had since….well…. Greg Vaughn? The Big Donkey was a great DH who had to play somewhere.

    There’s a thought for Cozart’s donkey name…..Dunner.

    • Dunner!! I love that! I suggested Adam in honor of The Big Donkey but I like Dunner much better!

    • Hmmmmmm…the Reds are on the road until after the all star break. The legnd of the donkey continues to grow. The next homestand seems like a long time to wait. Do they allow donkeys in Miami and South Beach?

  2. The starters competed in all 4 games and held the Rockies to 14 runs in the series.There have been times we gave up that in one game.Good to just compete and feel good about a series split.I can’t wait until we can talk about our offense not doing enough as was the case in both 5-3 losses.Speaking of offense we are just two players away from being really good and we have one in Scooter and the other is at Louisville.Put them both in and take out our two weak links and watch us take off offensively.Just thinking out loud.

  3. Good win today! Sal was better then I anticipated! He could’ve easily held them scoreless but hung 2 sliders on 0-2. Big Sal and Jackson Stephens have given a little hope that a few of the kids might figure it out?

    I was just saying the other day that Lorenzen needs something soft to throw them off. Everything was fb, cut fb, and hard slider. Today he suddenly pulls out several nice 83 slurve-type pitches and got a K and some weak swings. The sky is the limit…turn him loose please?

    Scooter is seeing the ball so well vs righties right now! Had a hit and 2 walks. Leadoff platoon Scooter/Suarez. It makes sense!

    • Just one start for each of those guys but yes, it sure was nice to see. Does give some hope that we can put together a rotation from what we have available.

      Would absolutely love to see Lorenzen in the rotation. I hope they give him a shot next year. I don’t think they will this year.

      I like the Scooter/Suarez “platoon” at leadoff, with Hamilton hitting 9th. Makes a lot of sense to me.

  4. Big Sal did not need to come out after 5 innings. That was simply a manager’s discretionary decision. Nothing wrong with the decision, made to keep a good game in his pocket and hopefully get a win.

    Having Cozart available on the bench for pinch-hitting duties is a very nice alternative if he can’t play every day.

    Gennett needs to start against every RH starter. Cozart should start against every LH starter with his off days and the roster adjusted accordingly.

    • I’ve been saying that about scooter all year it’s great to have a solid left handed hitting infy

  5. Every position starter (including Turner!) was on base at least twice, except for…

    yep…everyone guessed correctly…Hamilton & Peraza

    • I’ll give BHam 1/2 a break since he hit a triple (pulled it even, almost turned into the elusive ITPHR) and he’s been a bit better of late. But Peraza still looks lost to me most of the time.

      • The thing about Hamilton’s triple was that it didn’t make any difference. If he only hit a single or walked, he ends up scoring anyway. If he only had average speed and hit a single or walked, he ends up scoring anyway. The speed is great, but the skill needed is the ability to get on base in front of the hitters in the lineup. If Hamilton or Peraza can do that, then they are an asset at the top of the order. If they can’t do that, then they are a deficiency at the top of the order.

          • After Hamilton tripled, Gennett walked, which would have moved Hamilton to 2B, even if he had singled or walked. Votto then singled to RCF, which scored Hamilton from 3B and moved Gennett to 3B. That single would have scored anyone with even average speed from 2B and moved Gennett to 3B. The inning ended with no more runs scored. Hamilton’s speed had no impact on the scoring in that inning.

        • As an example, Winker was back in the lineup tonight and leading off for the Bats after a day off yesterday. In the 1st inning, Winker was HBP and scored the 1st run of a 3 run inning.

          And as I’m listening to the Bats game, DeShields gets a runner form 3B thrown out at home by ordering up a run-on-contact play. I REALLY HATE DESHIELD’S IN-GAME SAND ROSTER MANAGING!

          • I mean, I agree, but aside from being Sin Shoo Choo, how is being HBP a skill?

        • I’m in agreement … and I’m still enough of a BHam fan to think he’s more in tune with improvement than Peraza is. And he needs to do it hitting 7, 8 or 9.

          • He may not improve a lick offensively but his CF defense is so good that he provides a lot of value there. I just think he needs to be the #9 hitter.

        • @Cossack…You do realize that having Billy on 3rd with no out means he doesn’t need a hit to score.
          Also, events after the triple will not play out the same as if it didn’t happen.

          • That’s a more than valid point, VA. You can’t really argue that the odds of scoring are the same, much less greater, than having a runner on 3rd with no outs vs. a runner on 2nd or 1st in that situation.

            There’s plenty to criticize or downplay about BH, but that situation isn’t one of them. BH has the ability to stretch hits for an extra base and that is a very meaningful contribution.

        • You lost me, too. When BH hit the triple, the other events had not transpired, and had he not hit the triple, they might not have. He might have been thrown out stealing, for example. I get that lots of people have given up on him and understand the reasons, but criticizing him for hitting a triple instead of a single is a bit over the top. Worth remembering that Cozart was being dismissed the same way a few years ago. Sooner or later someone else will be the Reds’ centerfielder, and most of us will be able to heave sighs of relief. Maybe the next guy will even lead the league in assists and make more improbable catches than anyone else, but probably not.

        • Please a more detailed explanation below, outside the imbedded comments, to allow a bit more room. This is not a comment critical of Hamilton hitting a triple and discounting the benefit of a triple over a single.

          • I don’t think they get what you’re saying? Yes…Billy’s speed is great when he gets on but his obp is never up to par! A guy with a .350+ obp and 15 hr power (Winker?) would be much better! Anyone that gets on scores with a Votto or Duvall hr.

          • But that’s talking past the point that other folks are making, Indy. We all get that he’s terrible at getting on base even to a point where his attributes (speed and defense) can’t justify keeping him in the lineup. The point being discussed is whether or not his speed is a valuable asset. I think we can all agree that it is and his ability to stretch an extra base out of hits is valuable (3b > 2b).

      • It would not matter around here. He doesn’t walk enough to suit the folks here.

        • I think the correct statement would be that he makes to many outs to suit folks here. Walk or get hits, but just get on base.

          • Agreed MR.R

            I don’t think anyone has a passion for walks. More of a distaste for outs

          • Exactly… If he was hitting .300+ and not walking, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue. He isn’t.

    • Tall order, especially with Greinke going in game 1. That said, they actually play the games for a reason.

  6. Well said Old Cossack about Billy and Peraza.Its a no brainer but Scooter and Winker at the top would put us in great shape offensively with no easy outs at all.Anybody with an average major league OBP hitting in front of Votto and the rest would be an unknown since Choo was here.Heck leave Zack in the two hole and move Scooter to 6th or 7th but Winker has to be up here and soon.

  7. Hopefully Big Sal sticks in the rotation for the rest of the season. After Feldman (hopefully) gets traded, I’d love to see Reed get another shot too.

    2nd half rotation: Homer/Castillot/Sal/Reed/Adleman

    Hopefully Garrett sorts himself out and can push for a spot as well. Mahle and Stephenson should also get looks.

    Suddenly, things aren’t looking too terrible. The Reds might actually put together a .500 record in the 2nd half, and all of this without Disco or Finnegan.

    • Reed’s outing yesterday was two big steps back after a step forward. I think Romano sticks on the 25-man starting rotation unless he proves he’s definitively not ready. Stephens is pitching for the Bats tonight and is having a pretty good outing through 3 innings. He may very well be in line for the next available starting opportunity. Adelman may be headed to the bullpen which would also create an opportunity in the starting rotation. Coming out of the all star break, the Reds starting rotation may look like:

      Bailey
      Castillo
      Romano
      Stephens
      Feldman until he’s traded, then next man up (Stephenson, Reed, Mahle, Garrett)

      I’m with you except I see a rosier outlook than just not ‘too terrible’ for the 2nd half.

    • The “second half” record is likely going to be very dependent on the depth of deadline inspired deals and whether the Reds get any immediate MLB level imoact back in the deals. Obviously jettisoning marginal guys who don’t figure in the Reds future but might fit in a role player on a contender isn’t going to bring back huge return.
      However if the moves were to involve the likes of an Iglesias, Duvall, or even Gennett, after what he has done this year, the Reds better be getting some at least MLB ready talent if not guys off a 25 man roster in return or be prepared to explain to their fan base that the target to contend has slipped back to 2020 or so.

      • Yep! I have no problem with a blockbuster deal or two, but the Reds better have a treasure haul coming their way for ANY of their controllable major league talent and they will certainly have som splainin to do, Lucy!

        • Here’s my wish list.,
          #1 They need a catcher to pair with Barnhart until Stephenson or Okey (hopefully) come through. Even if a person puts Mesoraco’s health aside, 2018 is a walk year for him.
          #2a A middle of the rotation innings eater.
          #2b A legitimate high OBP lead off man, likely a CF or middle infielder. Obtain him for OBP and adjust the defense around him.

  8. All starters except the great ones and especially the young ones will have a bad game every once in awhile.It happens and will continue to happen because its a game of adjustments,We competed for 4 straight games with 2 rookies a 34 year old and a guy that hasn’t pitched much in two years in Coors against the Rockies.I like it and don’t see why it shouldn’t continue.All 4 pitchers have big league stuff they just have to go out and do it.We also have others with big league stuff they just need to pitch as well.We just need to stay healthy and continue to sort things out.We could have very easily won all 4 games because our starters kept it close.

  9. BTW, Winker was pulled from the lineup and replaced defensively after hitting in the bottom of the 4th inning, but I missed why Winker was pulled from the game. Does anyone have an update on why Winker was pulled?

    • I’m wondering whether Winker might be nursing an injury or perhaps has been feeling out of sorts. He seems to have sat out quite a bit since the last time he was sent down.

      Most recently did not plan Wednesday; and now this situation tonight.

      • He certainly might be feeling ‘out of sorts’ after two brief trips to the show this season and riding the pine both trips!

        • I like Winker too but where does he play? Unless you plan on sitting Hamilton he is blocked. I think the downgrade in CF of putting Schebler out there would offset the benefit of having Winker’s OBP over Hamilton’s. I also still don’t like Winker’s sub .100 ISO. If he is nursing some sort of problem, then it is even more important that he’s down in AAA. Unless a trade is made, he’s going to be sitting in AAA. I’m ok with that right now.

  10. I don’t know about Winker but I took a look at game day and Stephens pitched well tonight.

    • Stephens had a very interesting game: 7.0 IP w/ 8-H (all singles), 2-BB, 2-SO & 1-R (unearned), but Stephens also pulled out his best Johnny Cueto imitation with 2-CS & 1-PO to counter the 8-H.

  11. The race for the starting spots is turning interesting now, another strong performance by Stephens last night. It’ll be good to see who’s in and who’s left out for the second half. Since Bailey is a lock and Disco and Finnegan are out for the season, I think they should open all remaining four spots by deploying Adleman to the bullpen and trading Feldman by deadline. All, Castillo, Stephens, Stephenson, Castillo, Reed and Romano, are in the race and that’s even excluding Mahle. Go Reds!

    • Did you see somewhere that Disco was done for the year? I don’t have high hopes of him pitching this season and I think the Reds are probably putting off the inevitable but I haven’t seen a report saying that he is definitely done.

  12. We will always talk about Billy until the Reds make a decision.The data speaks loud and clear on his average,obp,strikeouts.lack of power,his soft hits and his soft outs and other measurable stats.He plays elite defense and has great speed.I would rather see the Reds bring up Winker and platoon him in the outfield but I can live with Bill every day for the rest of the year but please please move him down to the 8 or 9 hole and stop giving your worst offensive player the most at bats.Its just silly to do that and yeah it might mean we win 1 more game which means nothing but at least others can get the sense that the front office is looking at the data and does understand it still isn’t working in year 4.

  13. I suppose if this year is still a” rebuilding-see who can do what year”, that Billy will be given the full year to see if he can improve as a lead off hitter. As most do here, it seems doubtful that he can, but they may be giving him his last chance, I would still bring Winker up after the break and platoon him with Billy (moving Schebler to CF when Winker plays), to see what a Winker lineup can produce. If Gennett is for real, I’d keep Cozart a couple more years and send Peraza down or out.

  14. If Stephens and Romano can keep up the positive results, maybe the Reds will trade Feldman at the deadline after all. One of the Enquirer’s beat writers for the Reds has said a few times now that the Reds might keep Feldman rather than deal him only because the state of the rotation has been so patched together. Get something for him, and let the kids keep showing their stuff. And Adleman can stay in the rotation if need be.

    • I agree completely, but I don’t think that you would get much in return. Dispite his good year, he’s 34, and his fip and era are underwhelming. Maybe a double A prospect with some upside potential?

  15. This topic belongs in a more detailed post, but the Old Cossack’s Old Computer and Old Operating System won’t even allow exchange of detailed analysis via email to allow one of the editors to add the topic in a stand alone post.

    Billy’s triple in and of itself created a much higher opportunity to score a run with no outs than any other singular event except a home run. There’s no debate on that issue. It’s a fact, but it’s also a singular event. Any singular event that happens after that singular event is at all predictive before before it happens.

    The point attempted was that the skill needed was not hitting a triple, it was getting on base. A triple, double, single, walk, hbp & home run all accomplish the skill of getting on base in different ways. If speed increases the chance of getting on base, then it becomes part of that skill.

    I ran a cumulative analysis covering four seasons (2013-2016) for determining the correlation between commonly measured data and scoring runs on a team basis before my computers ability to crunch the data failed miserably. In a nutshell:

    Correlation with runs scored by a NL team :

    89.23% Team OBP
    88.24% Team OPS
    77.60% Team AVG
    77.25% Team SLG

    76.81% Team Base Hits
    68.58% Team Extra Base Hits
    41.76% Team Walks
    30.63% Team Home Runs

    66.10% Team Sacrifice Flies
    22.41% Team Sacrifice Bunts

    -23.74% Team Strike Outs
    -24.90% Team Piches per Plate Appearance
    -26.85% Team Stolen Bases

    There were variations year to year and some significant variation between the NL and AL, but the Reds play in the NL and those were the combined results for the previous 4 season in the NL regular seasons.

    Getting on base, no matter how it’s done, has the single highest correlation to scoring runs. Teams with the higher OBP score more runs and teams with the lower OBP score less runs. Team OBP even trumps team home runs and team extra base hits.

    A triple is great as a singular event, but more important is the ability to get on base regularly than hitting the occasional triple or double or stealing the occasional base.

    • This is a very well stated post that explains things perfectly. Really nice work

    • I get what you are saying, but a triple gives you many more chances to score tah a walk does (unless you string singles and walks together in the same inning. Perhaps a more telling stat would be what % score from third with less than two out compared the % of runners that score from second with less than two outs, or first base with the same criteria. I get that you want to downplay Billty’s triple, as it would be better if he had both a walk and a single instead. He would have scored from first or second too LAST NIGHT, but I’m all in favor of triples because they are more likely to lead to runs scored. I guess I don’t understand why you are fixsating over the triple.

    • Well researched and explained. And not to pick nits but I think the confusion above stems from your initial comments. If we are looking at singular events and acknowledging that getting on base is the most important event, then BH did just that. He got a hit. But as a corollary to your point, if you are looking at the singular events that have the highest probability of scoring a run, then a 3B is as good as it gets short of hitting a HR.

    • Can’t argue, Cossack. I’m not ready to give up entirely on Billy, though, because he brings excitement (“wow, did you see that..?”) to the game and because he shows flashes of being able to get on base, such as his last 40 or 50 at-bats (per Jim Kelch). I agree that his overall offensive production is not satisfactory and I agree that, at least, he should be moved down in the order.

      • .369 obp in the 2nd half last year. I agree with you but let him work out his issues in the 9 hole!

      • You raise a good point. Excitement WOW factor. Billy sells tickets. He’s an entertainer as was that 104 mph Cuban missile running in from left field.
        I do believe marketing and branding spill over into baseball operations.
        Billy batting leadoff and in cf and 35 year old BP at 2b and Chapman in the bullpen help the Reds connect to the casual fan. I’m more interested in winning.

  16. Data always wins out.Once worked for a guy years ago that said in this company data always rules because if you can’t show me how its measured it becomes an opinion.Great job Old Cossack.Tuned in the other night in the middle of a discussion about how important it is to have a veteran presence in the club house or locker room.Everybody was giving their opinions and one guy actually put and end to it when he said it only helps if the veteran can still play.I took from that its really about performance and with so much data to measure it why is it so difficult to figure out who can or who can’t.Old Cossack please forward your data to the Reds front office.Who knows a check may be coming your way.

    • Many improtant things can be measured, and some can’t. It’s easy to dismiss the importance on unquantifiable factors, but it can be a mistake to do so.

  17. Billy was definitely thinking about the inside-the-park HR on that ball! He’d get atleast 2-3 ITP HRs in Colorado per year and a huge increase in doubles/triples. Prob get hurt with all the extra running though? Billy is such a unique player that his stats don’t really tell the whole story but when you factor in how small GABP is and that Votto/Duvall are among the NL league leaders in extra basehits then Billy’s .295 obp is never going to cut it! A Scooter/Suarez leadoff platoon would obv dwarf Billy’s power and they’re scoring on all HRs and 2 out doubles as well. Billy’s defense is also slightly negated with the small size of GABP.

  18. Imo if you want to rebuild you can’t keep running the elevator up & down between Cincinnati & Louisville & have players have any confidence in themselves. You bring up a player let them sit on the bench bat once or pitch one game then send them down. Bring them up let them play & live with the results. Again last year the Reds front office was listed worst in baseball.

    • I think that criticism is fair in some cases, but largely not so for most of the shuttling. Certainly the case has been made that the Reds could jump in with some of the younger starting pitchers and let them stay, but I think that a lot of the up and down we’ve seen this year has been out of necessity rather than anything else. I don’t think they wanted to be shuttling the likes of Austin Brice up and down, but the failure of reliable starting pitching innings and injuries required it. It’s not some “master plan” about development, it’s guys they’ve needed to function, not because they were wanting to try it out.

      Also… the switch to the 10 day DL also increases the call ups. But mostly, the Reds have had terrible injury luck and performance issues, and they’re just trying to field a 25 man team without blowing out someone’s arm.

      They need a plan with someone like Winker, I agree, but even some of his call-ups were emergency, not because they wanted to see what the kid really has. Maybe after the All-Star break? I love the idea someone had about running him out a leadoff for awhile and using Billy more situationally.

    • The same article that had the Reds last also had the Phillies ahead of the Indians, Mariners ahead of the Brewers and Pirates ahead of the Astros. Maybe the Reds are the worst, but that ranking was completely subjective.

      While every situation is different, most of the guys who are brought up are to play in a specific game or two. It’s better to have someone playing in AAA than riding the pine here…for developmental and service time reasons

      • What was the publication? I have heard the Reds FO isn’t considered cutting edge but that was from a couple years ago (pre DW).

    • The clock is certainly ticking. If the deal is definitely NOT going to get done, I think both sides already have that realization. DW’s comments yesterday had all the right words, but the feeling or substance behind those words seemed lacking conviction.

      If both sides are playing a game of chicken to see who blinks first, that’s a dangerous game for both sides to be playing. We’ll know in about 5 hours one way or the other.

    • Naw…..why we want to sign a combo Doc Gooden/Arod type talent when they can throw millions at Cubans that will probably never play? Not signing HG would be a public relations disaster. The kid is no guarantee to make it but he’s special and could be an organizational changing player in a league that isn’t attracting African-American kids any longer. I grew up with George Foster, Joe Morgan, Griffey Sr, Dave Parker, Eric the Red, Larkin, etc but those days are long gone. Baseball is about like hockey now and that could change?

    • If the two sides are quibbling over a few hundred $K, then its a silly game of chicken with high risks. If the demand by Greene is an amount that would cost the Reds their 1st round pick in 2018, then there is no deal and both sides know it.

      • Correct. To be a “fly on the wall “during those negotiations. If it’s literally over a couple hundred $K, and doesn’t push the Reds into the penalty of losing their 1st pick next year, then shame on both sides. If the Reds can swing giving him the full slot money, even though they would incur some penalties, they should do it. But if Greene is holding out for that kind of money at the risk of losing eligibility for another year and potentially hurting himself (or the perception of him), then he’s being pennywise and pound foolish.

    • Down to the nitty gritty for signing Greene and it don’t look too good. All 1st round selections have signed, except Greene. The highest selection still unsigned was the Cubbies #30 comp pick and that was complicated by medicals.

      • It’s really looking like Greene simply didn’t want to sign with the Reds. He was the #2 selection so there was really no financial benefit to be derived by waiting for next year (if he goes JuCo) or waiting for 3 years (if he goes UCLA) and LOTS of financial risk.

        Of course Greene may want the college experience and that may be worth the financial risk to him and his family. That’s a personal decision.

        I don’t think there’s any question that Greene was the best prospect available when the Reds drafted him #2, but somebody didn’t omplete their due diligence if they can’t sign him.

        • Maybe that’s why Twins passed on him? Who knows really. Down to under 30 minutes.

        • Interesting speculation. My only counter observation was that he and his camp expressed happiness to be drafted by the Reds. Why put on the act if he wasn’t intending on signing. It won’t help his image which he and his family have VERY meticulously crafted. If he didn’t want to sign, best to be a straight shooter and say so. But if he says one thing and does another here, that’s really going to dent his brand before his career even gets started. I have to think they’re smarter than that.

  19. I heard DW say they would get next years 3rd pick for him if he doesn’t sign but what happens to HG? Does he play college bb for a year or something?

    • Yep, he would probably go play JuCo ball and reenter the draft next season. The risk/reward becomes a real factor.

      The risk for the Reds becomes a year delay in signing the #3 pick rather than the #2 pick and not knowing who that #3 pick might be.

      The risk for Greene becomes a year delay before cashing in on what might be his only big payday in baseball and the added risk of his value as a draft choice plummeting with a poor performance or significant injury.

  20. (Speaking of Greene, this was from a Dayton Daily News website article. Posturing, maybe?)

    Meanwhile, there are wild spots in the social media world suggesting several odd things about Greene, including one saying that he has un-followed all of his Reds’ social media channels, and is going to pass on signing with the team and head off to UCLA for three seasons.

    • I don’t get it? I heard that McKay wanted more then his slot might normally bring but I thought this stuff was supposed to be mostly figured out before the draft? This could be a disaster?

    • I would be shocked if he really was headed to UCLA for 3 seasons. JuCo for a season, yes, Three years of college seems highly unlikely.

      • Yes… UCLA would be a huge and terrible gamble against injury and performance. Go to JuCo, dominate lesser calibre players, and still look good.

        • But don’t actually do it… sign with the Reds and start playing rookie ball!

  21. Well….game changing talent Hunter Greene is going elsewhere but the Reds front office has a backup plan:

    Bringing in Todd Coffey and Bartolo Colon on 1 year deals and they’re going to promote hotdog eating contests involving those 2 and random fans during the 7th inning stretch!!

    • If it doesn’t happen, shame on Greene’s camp. The parameters are fairly well set, and the Reds would be out of their minds to ever give up next year’s pick to over-sign him for more money if that’s what’s at stake. They’d be equally crazy to negotiate something like a place on the 40 man for a 17 year old. You knew just about what he’d get paid when he declared.

      • Shame on the Reds. If they don’t sign this kid then its a complete fail by DW & Co. and not even Chuck can explain it away. The deal should be pretty well lined up before you even pick the kid if you do your homework?

        • Probably was, Indy. Somebody is holding out over a couple of bps. Would you be on board for the Reds to sign him even if it meant giving up next year’s pick? I mean, if it were your money and your team? Serious question.

          • No….but that stuff should’ve been ironed out beforehand? THis kids dad even said “He has a little Lavar Ball in him”. I think he’s being pushed in the wrong direction…some kind of marketing thing to play for a high profile team instead of a smalltown team like the Reds. I read where his “team” might be a pain in the caboose atleast 2 weeks b4 the draft. THis is on the Reds…make no mistake!!

        • I guess that all depends on things we’re not privy too. At just face value, the Reds probably thought they were dealing with a camp that understood the salary pool and the slotting. Again, in that sense, everybody knows the deal ahead of time. Going over by more than 5% triggers a draft pick loss. I don’t care how awesome this kid might, maybe be one day, he’s also one fastball away from blowing out his arm and then we’d really be missing that pick next year.

  22. Drama, drama, drama. The kid is certainly from LA.
    T minus 15 minutes and counting.

  23. Epic front office failure if they didn’t sign Hunter Greene. First was the Luis Robert debacle of not signing him. Now this.
    Not a good day to be Dick Williams if he failed.

    • Unfrigginbelievable is what it is? I guess he’ll be a Phillie? I’ve had a chance to travel all over this country and Philly/Baltimore have to be tied for worst places to be imo. I don’t get it? He’s not going to be able to Elway himself onto a good team?

      • Hey… I like Baltimore. That’s the organization that gave me a chance. They will always be my 2nd favorite team for that reason. I also was out that way in the USAF and liked the DC/Baltimore area. The O’s were very good to military folks and that was before Sep 11, 2001. Not all teams were like that.

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