2017 Reds / Game Thread

Reds vs Dodgers — June 18, 2017

After losing 10-2 on Saturday, making it five losses against the Dodgers this season and eight straight overall, the Reds will try to salvage at least one win Sunday at GABP. First pitch is set for 1:10 ET.

During this losing streak, the Reds have been outscored 53-23. They’ve scored only 16 runs in five games against LA. Yesterday, the Reds had 11 hits to the Dodgers’ 12, but the difference is that the Dodgers could score runs and the Reds left 10 men on base.

Starting Pitchers

Pitcher IP ERA xFIP K% BB%
Bronson Arroyo 68.0 7.01 5.81 13.7% 6.2%
Kenta Maeda 56.1 4.95 4.15 24.8% 7.1%

Of all 84 qualifed pitchers in major league baseball, Arroyo is dead last in ERA and has allowed the most home runs (22) of any pitcher. In a word, he’s been horrible. He seems to be able to get through the opposing team’s lineup the first time through, but after that, the hitters end up adjusting to the timing of his pitches and start teeing off on them.

Dodgers ace Clayton Kershaw was originally supposed to get the start, but lucky for the Reds, Maeda gets the start instead. It’s weird to see a pitcher have 11 starts and one save, but that’s what is on Maeda’s stat line. Of course, that one save came against the Reds on June 9, when he gave up just one run on three hits and struck out six. The only Reds player who has more than two at-bats against Maeda is Scooter Gennett, who has a home run off him.

Lineup

The lineups can be found here.

What can you say about the Reds offense? At least Joey Votto is hitting. He had a three-hit game Saturday, with a two doubles. The hitting streak stands at 11. Yesterday in the game thread, I wrote about Hamilton and Cozart not hitting at the top of the lineup. Well, it’s just one game, but they combined for four hits and the only two runs scored.

Bullpens

The Dodgers have the edge here, with Alex Wood going eight innings on Friday night and Saturday’s game being a non-contest. Austin Brice gave the Reds some much-needed innings on Saturday, but likely won’t be available today if they need a long man.

News and Notes

Final Thoughts

As I was leaving work Friday, I had 700 WLW on my car radio. During Reds home games at 5:30 p.m, they have an ‘Inside the Park’ interview session with Bronson Arroyo (in previous years, you may recall former Red Brandon Phillips did this). On Friday, at the end of the interview, Arroyo seemed to suggest that they soon may have to find another player to do the interview session.

Arroyo’s a smart guy, and I think he knows his time with the Reds, and likely in baseball, is coming to an end. If Homer Bailey is set to return this coming weekend in DC like everyone speculates, today could be Arroyo’s last game at Great American Ball Park.

91 thoughts on “Reds vs Dodgers — June 18, 2017

  1. I felt like we had been here before (a seemingly hopeless Sunday home game with Arroyo starting) and I looked it up…..and we have.

    On April 23, the Reds took on John Lackey and the Cubs. Someone mentioned in the game thread that Chicago was a -170 favorite to win. But, the Reds got the victory 10-9 with Arroyo (!!!!) getting the win.

    Today, according to Bovada, the Dodgers are a -178 favorite.

    Arroyo is one of the worst parts of the worst pitching staff in MLB. With baseball, though, more than any other sport, you just never know on any one given day.

    Go Redlegs.

    • That -178 was a reflection of the struggles Maeda has undergone this year. Had the matchup been Kershaw vs. Arroyo, Dodgers would have been over a -310 favorite which is the largest you’ll see. Chris Sale was a recent -310 favorite vs. a rookie with the floundering Phillies couple days ago (which the Phillies won 1-0).

  2. I agree but you are only as good as your starting pitcher.Regardless of everything that will be said today good or bad it always comes down to starting pitching in baseball.The length of the season dictates that usually the top 10 or so in pitching make the playoffs.From there it becomes how good is your top 2 guys vs their top 2 guys in a 5 or 7 game series.I haven’t looked but I would imagine our offense is in the top 10 in runs scored and our pen is in the top 10 as well.If we could get our starters to get to the 6th or 7th with the lead or tied or a run behind we would have an excellent team.Not every team can say they have a top 10 offense,pen and lets not forget defense.We have 3 of the 4 things needed to win but we don’t have the most important thing.

  3. Unless we break completely out of the hitless funk we’re in, this looks like “giveaway Sunday” to me based on that lineup. Then again, Scooter could go 5-for-5 again with all of them over the wall. I’d enjoy watching that very much.

  4. I actually like the idea … fairly good bat control by Billy, too. But you can’t square it right back to the pitcher.

    • Not sure the leash could be any shorter … but the comment from the radio booth (interview) about Bronson coming around has me nervous. At least we got confirmation that Bonilla isn’t going into the rotation.

      And as I type, run #3 comes across. I guess it’s time to take my “son” to PetSmart and use that coupon for his upkeep.

      Have a great Fathers’ Day, Redleg Nation!

  5. 2 run double by the pitcher. Welsh said the pitch was basically a batting practice pitch

  6. You know how when there’s a blowout, and a team will bring a position player to pitch? And sometimes that player gets 3 outs, but most times the don’t? I feel Bronson is like that now.

  7. This is obviously a cry for help. Someone is trying to send us a message by allowing Arroyo to pitch every 5th day. We need to figure out who’s behind this and get him the help he needs.

  8. Wow.

    Hamilton looked like he had it, then lost it, then recovered leaping into the fence.

    Great focus.

    • The Reds DFA’d wojo and sent Buchanan to AAA. Bonilla and Turner being recalled but Bonilla will NOT start Friday in Washington.

      Homer and Finnegan aren’t ready quite yet and won’t start Friday.

      Just make it a clean sweep….DFA Bronson and start reed Friday and Stephenson Saturday.

  9. I’ve lost all respect for Arroyo. I used to have a paper route as a kid and an old lady would just open her purse and I could whatever I wanted but of course I just took the amount for the paper.

    The Reds are the old lady and Arroyo is cleaning her out like a thief!

    • You have it wrong. Arroyo is getting paid what his contract calls for whether he pitches or not. The Reds are making the decision to run him out there every 5th day even though he clearly cannot be effective. I have a ton of respect for Arroyo but most experiments don’t work out and this one has clearly run it’s course.

  10. At this point Arroyo’s like the old boxer who just gets murdered. The corner needs to throw in the towel.

    • I love everything that you represent, Bronson. Your courage, your grit, your guitar playing, and the way you pitched five or six years ago. Please retire.

  11. My Colts started Curtis Painter at QB for most of one season to lose on purpose to get Andrew Luck….The Suck for Luck. I guess that’s the Reds plan w/Arroyo….keep sucking and get a top 5….maybe 2nd again?

  12. 4 pitches? 4 pitches? The Reds are obviously trying to get this one over as soon as possible to call their dads or see their kid, etc.

    I’m out of here…if they don’t care then neither do I!

    Happy Fathers Days all! Happy Fathers Days to stepfathers like myself too….it might be harder in some ways.

    • No…..an Arroyo game….Milton won 8 games and had 12-14 good outings in a year.
      We’ve seen Lorenzen.Iglesias and now Peralta get hit hard in a week….they are all good pitchers….but this is a new hitting era…gotta get pitchers who locate and change speeds… Today’s hitters can’t be beat with 95 mph.

      We are watching the PED era without the PED’s. They raised the mound in in 1968…maybe they need to do it again.

      • Yep. Cut off even ONE run from Bronson and we’re tied. Of course, extra innings are also a plague on us, so who knows?

  13. Interesting that a pitcher named Dayton is pitching to guys that act like they play in Dayton.

  14. Duvall!!!!…..Only 4 exclamation marks. My heart just isn’t that into it right now….

  15. I’m in agreement with THOM! On Lorenzen being given a shot in the rotation again. Now I’m beginning to doubt my position.

    • Lorenzen is moving to a starter in 2018….Thom is the canary in the mine…if he’s saying in June 2017 that lorenzen is a different more mature pitcher now….he’s following the FO orders. ML is moving the rotation .that’s my story ….and I’m sticking to it.

      • Price alluded to that in an interview in April. Said he stays in the bullpen this year but he will get his opportunity to start again eventually.

  16. Lorenzen was throwing 99 with movement….please start the man. He can be Johnny cueto V2 and a true Ace

  17. Easy now INDY lets don’t get on our guys for swinging.They could have went down on 3 pitches instead of 4.Gee wiz lighten up a little I mean that’s my hangup on swinging at everything.Surprised somebody didn’t say they were all right down the middle.

  18. Credit Alcantara with good baserunning not to get doubled off on that liner by Tucker

  19. Same song.Down big early.Pen in early.Hitters fight scratch and claw and make it really close and we win if not for a great catch on Joey’s ball in the eighth I am told.Move on.

  20. Puig robbed Suarez of a 2 rbi hit with the bases loaded, with a diving catch. Votto didn’t tag from 3rd. It was Puig and his great arm and all, but he did dive for the ball.

  21. This Reds front office is an utter embarrassment. I doubt a single team would have let Arroyo pitch beyond 2 to 3 starts this season. Every year we get these retreads beyond reasonable ML pitching and know ahead of time whats going to happen. The Reds organization is miserable at acquiring and/or developing ML pitching (outside of Cueto) and continue to play with kids heads – bullpen, middle relief, back to bullpen, extend innings, start, back to bullpen. I guess we can be the 76ers of baseball and play for the top picks every year and hope sometime we can compete.

    I mean does the front office have any plan for the future? Are we rebuilding? Retooling? Or simply tanking by pushing out a AAAA and over the hill starting rotation?

    • Maybe it’s just me but as a long-time Reds fan I did not hear of ‘rebuild’ until the digital/blog revolution of 10 to 15 years ago. Prior to that it was hardly ever mentioned in the sports page of newspapers of the time. Instead of washed up pitchers to eat innings, the front office made an effort to get a solid pitcher(s) to fill out the starting rotation.

  22. From MLB Trade Rumors, this is Arroyo in his post-game interview:

    “You have to put up enough quality starts for a ballclub to want to keep you around, you know?” said the 40-year-old. “That could have been the last time I was on the field, yeah. It’s just the way it is.” Given that injuries kept Arroyo out of action between August 2014 and the start of this season, it’s somewhat remarkable that he has even rebounded to make 14 starts in 2017. But most of the longtime innings eater’s appearances this season haven’t gone well, as he has logged a 7.35 ERA and allowed a major league-worst 23 home runs over 71 frames. Arroyo has also battled soreness in his surgically repaired shoulder, contributing to his poor output. “I was hoping my arm would continue to get better and better as the year has gone on,” stated Arroyo. “It’s almost like it’s telling me ‘Hey man, I’m not going to run this race for you anymore.’’

    • The interview was broadcast on the post-game show today. Arroyo was butally honest and it was a little tough to watch. He made no commitment beyond talking to Bryan later this evening, but without explicitely saying he was finished, he said he was finished. He was very forthright that his shoulder was not healthy and had not been healthy for some time. He was getting by on cortisone injections and those injections were no longer effective. He made multiple sideway references to no longer being able to pitch and the end of his career had arrived.

      • The ESPN ticker said the same thing. I’m guessing we’ll get an “announcement” before too long. Based on that interview, the game isn’t fun for him anymore.

      • I saw it and I agree, it made me sad. He knows it’s the end of the line but to his credit he has no apparent regrets. He gave it what he had. Unfortunately what he had left wasn’t much.

  23. So he had a bad shoulder and we kept sending him out there to continue to get pounded and that was a good thing.Can’t see anything good about that for anybody.Please somebody remind me as why that would need to happen at any time for any reason on any major league team.He is 40,hadn’t pitched in over two years and had a bad shoulder.

  24. Price said he wouldn’t put him back out there if he was having physical problems.Are we to assume he didn’t know he was getting by on cortisone shots?Wouldn’t that be kind of hard to hide that even if you wanted too?After not pitching for over two years and coming off of Tommy John surgery wouldn’t somebody be checking him out physically and records being kept.

    • Lots of athletes get cortisone shots to help them stay on the field. He said it had worked reasonably well for the first 3 months. The last one hasn’t worked as well. I’m sure everyone involved (Price, pitching coach, front office) knew.

  25. Well, at least that chapter is now closed for good. Time to look at the future again, I wonder who’s starting next Friday in D.C.

  26. I’m sure Bob Castellini is a good man but if I were in charge, I’d say to Dick Williams: let’s go get a couple of starters. This is beyond ugly.

    • Bob: ” Dick, I was using my interweb machine and one of our customers suggested that we go get 2 starters. I think it’s great idea!!!!!

      Dick: “Ok, Bob. You do realize teams aren’t just going to give away 2 starters. Our competitors aren’t looking to help us. The cost to land 2 quality starters will be immense.

      Would you prefer that I dramatically weaken our current strengths….setting back the rebuilding process a number of years…..or should I give away the farm system and put us in a position to absolutely suck for the next 5-10 years? You’re the boss…I just work here.”

      Bob: ” But…the customer on the inter web made it seem so easy. Why can’t it be that easy!!!!!!! Damn you, interweb suggestor….damn you!!!!!

    • Taking four in a row and then losing nine and counting is ugly, but never fear it is another rebuild year.

  27. CHUCK,I love it but what do you think the plan really is?I haven’t looked but I will venture to guess we are top 10 in runs scored,defense and bullpen ERA and I am sure we are dead last in starter stats.I personally think we have the pitching in house to compete but the team hasn’t shown they believe it.By that they continue to try out guys off the waiver wire and veterans that well have a history and by-pass giving legitimate opportunities to younger power arms.I just struggle with all of this and I know a rebuild takes time.I never thought we could compete for anything this year or even next but I thought we would at least do some sorting.I value your opinion and not firing shots because your are right as to what it would cost to go and get two starters even league average guys.

    • I’ve been puzzled at times as to the use of certain pitchers (Stephenson and Reed in particular) but unlike you, I don’t think the starting pitching in house is ready to make the Reds competitive. Reed and Stephenson haven’t exactly been mowing them down in Louisville, Romano lasted 1 inning in his last start there, Davis didn’t look ready for prime time when he was with the Reds, Lorenzen is stuck in the bullpen the rest of this year. Hopefully he will get a chance to start next year but who knows if that will really happen. Wojo was just supposed to be additional help in Louisville until they felt the need to bring him up. Buchanan also just a long relief guy but he wasn’t effective. I don’t know what the answer to the starting rotation is other than getting Homer, Finnegan, and maybe Disco (not counting on that right now) back.

    • Jim….if you subtract the top 3 starters from virtually any team in history they would suck. My guess is they’ve decided to tread water for half a year until at least 2 of the 3 return. Maybe that’s smart…maybe that’s dumb. Time will tell

      Starting soon, we”ll seemingly see a rotation that is comprised of Bailey, Finnegan, Feldman, Adelman and likely Reed. Ultimately, Feldman is replaced by Stephenso or Romano. Adleman is perhaps a place holder for Disco. Assuming, I’m interpreting this correctly, is this a good idea? Will it work? Ask be a year from now…..I have no idea

  28. Dick Williams could probably go out and get a guy similar to Jesse Hahn (3.56) from Oakland. A guy that’s probably a 3rd starter at best but it won’t be cheap. Lorenzen would be better then anyone they could afford to get in a trade. Its hard to say what the Reds FO is thinking but my guess is they’ll do nothing this summer in way of a starter but wait and try out Castillo, Mahle, etc in late July-end of season.

    • I certainly hope they don’t go out and overpay for a starter this year. That would be the ultimate in bad decision-making at this point in time.

      • This year is over. It would need to be someone affordable that can put up some innings for the next few years.

  29. Luis Castillo started the 2nd game of the doubleheader for the Blue Wahoos last night. He had another OUTSTANDING performance. For 6.0 innings, Castillo had 0-H, 0-BB & 4-SO. The only baserunner reached on an error. In the top of the 7th inning with the score tied 0-0, 2 outs and runners on 1st & 2nd, Castillo came to the plate and hit a weak infield grounder. He busted his behind getting down the line and beat the throw to load the bases with 2 outs. Unfortunately, the Blue Wahoos failed to score and when Castillo took the mound in the bottom of the 7th inning, he wasn’t the same pitcher, giving up a single, a HBP, a walk and another single to plate the winning run. The final inning didn’t lessen Castillo’s performance.

    Castillo’s performance to date:

    80.1 IP w/ 2.58 ERA; 1.01 WHIP; 81 SO, 13 BB & 5 HR

    Take a moment to digest that info…13 BB, 5 HR & 81 SO in 81 IP!!!

    Castillo pitched 130 innings last season, so he should be good for ~80 more innings this season.

    • Lorenzen 188 total minor league innings….rushed into the Reds rotation at 23

      Castillo is 24.5 and has 460 innings in the minors. Tyler Mahle is almost 23 and has 498 ip in the minors. Lets go already? Show some consistency! Promote them to AAA and lets get it going! Lets not waste this whole season although I’ve been looking forward to Arroyo vs Bryce Harper for some time! I’ve never seen a 600 ft hr before!

      • Lets skip AAA already and send them to the big show. If they work out Reds control 6 or 7 years until they hit 30 and begin their slow decline. Get the most out of their potential and lets not waste it in the minors….for their sake and the Reds. if they don’t work out we find out sooner than later.

  30. Stephenson pitched on June 15 at AAA. Bailey, Reed and Finnegan are schedued to pitch for the Bats on Monday (19th), Tuesday (20th) and Wednesday (21st), repectively.

    The Reds rotation lines up as:

    06/19/17 Feldman
    06/20/17 Garrett
    06/21/17 Adleman

    There is an off day scheduled for Thursday, 06/22/17

    Stephenson could be held back for the start on Friday, 06/23/17
    or
    Castillo would be right on schedule for the start on Friday, 06/23/17

    • First start vs the Nats? I think that was part of the problem w/Reed this year. They work him in several games in the pen but then his 1st (and only) start is vs the patient Cubs? Try to find a soft spot to build a little confidence!

      I still say Oakland is a premium partner for a trade! Their outfield consists of 36 yr old Rajai Davis, 32 yr old Matt Joyce, and 29 yr old Khris Davis who will most likely price himself out of the A’s budget in the next few years! Schebler (or Duvall but Scheber is 2 yrs younger), prospects, etc for Sean Manaea….or a lesser deal for Hahn or Graveman possibly?

      • The Reds need a starter on Friday (assuming Arroyo is no longer an option by then). There are two pitchers on the 40-man roster who are available and already in a starting rotation, Stephenson (AAA) and Castillo (AA). This may be a one-time spot start. Tighten your belt and strap on your spikes if you want to pitch at the major league level. I’m hoping the Reds promote Castillo for the spot start and then option him to AAA after the game. If you ask Stephenson or Castillo if they want to start at the major league level against the Nats, I’ll wager they would respond, “Give me the ball!”

  31. If everything goes well with the rehab starts, we may be looking at a rotation beginning on Saturday of:

    Bailey
    Feldman
    Finnegan
    Garrett
    Adleman

    Of course, Reed, Stephenson or Castillo could be tapped for the starting rotation on the 25-man roster also, replacing Feldman and/or Adleman as appropriate.

  32. Jesse Winker is now slashing .317/.399/.411 for a .810 OPS.

    Within the International League, Winker ranks 1st in OBP (.399), 3rd in AVG (.317), 38th in SLG (.411) & 20th in OPS (.810).

    Winker is going to force a decision soon…

    • Winker is going to force a decision soon

      That’s what I said about Arroyo….in early May

  33. I really don’t know that we have guys in house and they only way to find out is let them pitch.There is an article in MLB trade rumors about the Reds and the writer said Disco and Finny were the best of the young pitchers.Of course he was looking at what they had actually done in 40 or 50 starts in the big leagues.That is my only beef is we haven’t given others that same number of starts or something beyond 10-15 starts.We have missed out on that opportunity in a big way.The worse thing we could do is give up on anybody and another team give them the ball every 5th day and they turn out to be really good.Thanks Chuck for your thoughts.

  34. Reds moves today: Cozart & Arroyo to 10-day DL. Recalled Winker & Ariel Hernandez.

Comments are closed.