2017 Reds / Game Thread

Reds vs. Dodgers — June 17, 2017

The Reds will try once again to break the seven-game losing streak with the second game of this weekend series against the Los Angeles Dodgers at Great American Ball Park Saturday. First pitch is set for 4:10 ET.

Lots of festivities are happening at GABP this afternoon, as the Pete Rose statue (Steve’s post) is unveiled on Crosley Terrace and a pre-game on-field ceremony. It will all happen in front of the second sell-out crowd of the season, after Opening Day.

This also might be the best opportunity in the series for the Reds to get a win, as Clayton Kershaw looms as the Dodgers starter Sunday afternoon.

Starting Pitchers

Pitcher IP ERA xFIP K% BB%
Asher Wojciechowski 19.0 5.21 5.63 16.5% 3.8%
Hyun-Jin Ryu 57.0 4.42 4.09 20.7% 6.9%

In a very small sample size, Wojciechowski hasn’t been terrible with the Reds, but he’s likely on the short list to either go back to the bullpen or get sent back down to Louisville when Homer Bailey and Brandon Finnegan return. He’s started three games, and his worse start was in Toronto when he gave up four runs, including three home runs, in four innings. Of course, he also pitched six innings of two-run baseball against the Cardinals, striking out six and walking only two. It’s not the best, but for a guy who wasn’t even pitching in April, it’s not bad (and better than Bronson Arroyo).

After two outstanding seasons with the Dodgers in his first two years in the league, Ryu has struggled to return to the pitcher he was after batting a shoulder injury for most of 2016. Ryu’s main issue this season has been giving up the home run ball. He’s allowed 12 home runs in 57.0 innings. In his rookie season of 2013, he allowed 15 all year, and in 2014, he allowed just eight. However, his GB% is just under 50%, so Ryu is forcing ground balls, which means when he does allow a fly ball, there’s a good chance it will go out of the stadium.

In the midst of this seven-game losing streak for the Reds, they were able to get to Ryu when they faced him in LA last Sunday, chasing him from the game after scoring four runs on six hits in just four innings.

Lineup

Dodgers                                                                  Reds

1. Chase Utley (2B)
2. Corey Seager (SS)
3. Chris Taylor (LF)
4. Cody Bellinger (1B)
5. Joc Pederson (CF)
6. Yasmani Grandal (C)
7. Logan Forsythe (3B)
8. Yasiel Puig (RF)
9. Hyun-Jin Ryu (P)
1. Billy Hamilton (CF)
2. Zack Cozart (SS)
3. Joey Votto (1B)
4. Adam Duvall (LF)
5. Eugenio Suarez (3B)
6. Scott Schebler (RF)
7. Jose Peraza (2B)
8. Devin Mesoraco (C)
9. Asher Wojciechowski (P)

It was not pretty for the Reds offense Friday night, but Joey Votto did extend his nine-game hitting streak to 10.

News and Notes

Much needed reinforcements are coming for the Reds pitching staff.

Pensacola and Dayton both clinched playoff berths last night, and the Daytona Tortugas are also on the way to clinching a berth. The Reds may be mired in a losing streak, but the minor league teams are enjoying much success.

Final Thoughts

Earlier in the season when the Reds were enjoying success, Billy Hamilton and Zack Cozart were getting on base at the top of the lineup. During this losing streak, Hamilton is 3-for-21, and Cozart is 0-for-20. Combined the two have scored one run, and it was scored by Cozart, not Hamilton. (In small fairness to Cozart, he missed two of the games in San Diego due to quad soreness).

When the top of the lineup succeeds, so does the rest of the lineup. And I think a lineup shake-up should be in order soon for the Reds. If Hamilton does not starting hitting, Bryan Price has to change something. Also, why is Devin Mesoraco still hitting 8th?

Joe Maddon did a major shake-up of the Cubs lineup Tuesday when he hit Anthony Rizzo lead-off. The full results remain to be seen whether or not it will be a success, but the point is that Maddon made the move. Price might be wise to follow Maddon and do something to jolt this lineup. What is there to lose?

 

72 thoughts on “Reds vs. Dodgers — June 17, 2017

  1. “jolt this lineup”? Billy Hamilton has been a subpar leadoff hitter for entirely too long. Just player recognition, putting players in a position where they can succeed, might be jolt enough,.

  2. How about this lineup:

    Suarez
    Votto
    Duvall
    Schebler
    Mesoraco
    Cozart
    Hamilton
    Peraza
    Pitcher

    Maybe switch Mesoraco and Schebler vs. LHP.

    • I would like a reporter to ask Price the following question: “Why do you consistently use a lineup where Billy Hamilton get more at bats than Joey Votto?”

      I am not down on Billy, I am actually a big Billy fan. I love watching the guy play center and run the bases, I just don’t think he should get more at bats than Votto.

      • I think it has to be a case of “you don’t know what you don’t know.” Price just doesn’t understand the idea of scoring runs being tied to things like giving more PA to good hitters and less to bad hitters.

        Seems like something a child could graphs, but alas, here we are.

    • I still like Hamilton hitting 9th, that way he is on base in front of the best hitters and not the worst pitcher, someone stated that it made no sense to hit pitchers above Hamilton, but to me the pitcher only will bat maybe 2 times,3 at most and then you bat a better hitter in his spot

  3. I like your suggested lineup. Most importantly, you have Hamilton and Peraza hitting seventh and eighth. Right now they both have an OBP 290 or below.

  4. I posted on a different thread….but I would leave Billy in the leadoff spot until 400 at bats to let 2017 sort itself once and for all. Price would put Peraza there anyway.

    August 1 line up:

    Winker RF
    Suarez 3b
    Votto 1b
    Duvall LF
    Schebler CF
    Mesoraco C
    Gennett 2b
    Pitcher
    Peraza SS.

    • I like this lineup the best. I know Billy is fast but Schebler isnt a slouch out there.

  5. CF Schebler
    1B Votto
    3B Suarez
    LF Duvall
    RF Winker
    C Mesoraco
    SS Cozart
    Pitcher
    2B Peraza

    Sub in Scooter vs tough righties…maybe 3x/week. Give Billy 3 starts a week as well plus pinchrunner/def replacement.

  6. When Homer and Finny come back, what do you think is the realistic chance Arroyo is the first to go? And not to the bullpen because he is not any better than anybody there as well.

  7. That was a good pitch that just went for an RBI double… What’s a guy to do?

  8. As least for this inning Billy and Cozy have shown up after being missing in action for the last week or so

  9. Thought we may have something but lead run at second and no outs and he never moves.Not good at all especially with 3,4 and 5 as the hitters.Did make the pitcher throw a bunch of pitches.

  10. Is it my imagination or does Wojo strike out a lot of guys. By my count he has 18 to 3 K to BB ratio, seems to rocked up 2nd time through. Move him to closer when they trade Iggy for the next rebuild.

  11. I have been complaining about hitting Mes 8th too, what is the deal with hitting 2 guys with such lower OBP above him, plus he has so much more power

    • case in point, does Mes see any better pitches with no out runner on 1st Peraza coming up, or 1 out and pitchers spot

  12. So he can be walked intentionally as he just was or not being given anything to hit with the pitcher on deck.Takes the bat out of his hand almost.

    • Yeah, with the pitcher on deck, you’d almost never pitch to Mes early in the game with RISP. This is especially true w/ 2 outs.

  13. Ok, it’s hard w/ Ru pitching, because his pitches move a TON, but does anyone know where the strikezone is… That said, it looks like according to robo-ump, the pitch caught the bottom of the zone.

  14. That Price ejection feels like a direct result of being in a 7-game losing streak.

    Tune into MLB.TV and you will see more egregious strike 3 calls every day of the season.

    • Exactly what I was thinking, Dodgers should have gone nuts if that was a ball per Gameday

  15. Not watching but its about time somebody gets upset and goes nuts.This stuff of being calm and cool and the always politically correct be a professional about it is way way over rated.You must sometimes let everybody know on your team their team and the umps that you have a pulse.Thumbs up to Price and I don’t care if your are right or wrong.

    • Not sure I agree 100% but in this case, I don’t have an issue with it. Also, better Price gets tossed than a player. This is especially true with 8 guys in the pen and a short bench.

  16. This team is really struggling.Errors and walks can’t be overcome by our pitchers.They aren’t good enough to keep the other team from scoring when this happens.

  17. Um, where is our Bellinger? I mean seriously. We never seem to have guys come up and do that. Wow!! The guy can smack them. Looks like our Reds are on to their 8th loss in a row. Tomorrow is Arroyo vs Kershaw. Ummmm… 9th? Still a long way to go and the Reds offense is good but ouch. Can Williams and Price at least drop the talk of competing?

    Good stuff for Wojciechowski but he makes an awful lot of mistakes… Co Pederson can hit them a long way too. He just tends to be a K/BB/HR guy though.

  18. As Ashley said Wojo wasn’t even pitching in April.To continue to throw these guys out there and expect them to compete at this level is beyond absurd.

  19. Keep the dream alive people!! The dream of another 2nd pick next year is alive and well! The Reds rebuild is like the “peace in the middle east” rebuild.

  20. It was sad even when we were winning some games but now can we forget about playoffs and competing and get back to the re-build plan.Please no more Bronson and Wojo or anybody else that is not in the future plans.

  21. And a perfectly good afternoon is now shot … who are the next pitchers up for us anyway? I’ve seen all I need to see of Wojo. To borrow a quote from “A League of Their Own” …

    “He’s done. He’s throwing grapefruits up there.”

    Perhaps tomorrow … hope does spring eternal with us as Reds fans. And then there is the trip to Tampa where we won’t have to worry about the mandatory sac bunt for the pitcher’s spot.

    • Don’t worry, Mazzaro will be off the AAA DL soon and can take his place while our top prospects rot in the minors.

  22. Well after Arroyo gives up 3-4 bombs tomorrow then possibly Dick Williams could call Joey in and convince him to accept a trade. I think they could possibly move him if they weren’t asking for the moon. This Reds team might be ready at some point but it won’t be in Votto’s era. If he wants to win then he needs to go and free up the Reds budget.

    • You’re thinking past 2020? I think that Votto will still be a very nice player in 2018, 2019, and 2020. I have 2019 as the year for competing. Honestly, if I’m the Reds I listen on anyone but I’m not actively shopping Votto unless I really,, really think it will be past 2020. I think unless it’s a huge haul, you can’t really give him up because you’re telling your fans it will be 2021 before there is a chance for a playoff.

      • 2020 atleast and Votto will turn 37 that season. How many guys are still cranking it out at 36/37 years old since the roid era ended? Not many. I expect his #s will be significantly less in 2019…..maybe 880 ops or something? Thats based on everyone else anyway? I hope they win 15 games in a row but I’m trying to be realistic!

        • Pete Rose was pre-roid and productive into his 40s. Granted, those were the amphetemine days, but Votto certainly have the drive and smarts.

    • Why would you even think of trading Votto if you didn’t get “the moon” in return?

      • Free up cash and get a good pitching prospect and some other picks but I wouldn’t expect any more then we gave for Latos. Otherwise we keep him….father time takes its toll on his production and we get nothing. We’re 1000x miles away from a pitching staff that can really compete now. Its going to have to be Senzel and Hunter Greene’s Reds!

  23. The Dodgers entered today no. 1 in team pitching WAR – 11.2
    The Reds entered today dead last in team pitching WAR – 0.8

    The Reds are third in team batting.

    Under these parameters, the focus on changing the order of the lineup is pretty close to re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    It’s tough envisioning these guys with xFIP over 5 (Wojo, Garrett, etc) being on the next Reds playoff team, Bailey, Finnegan and DeSclafani really need to come good in the second half of the season.

    The gap between the Reds and Dodgers (who should be perennial contenders) feels immense.

    • I’m not counting on DeSclafani. I think the Reds are just hoping they can avoid surgery on him and from the outside looking in, I think they may have made a mistake. I think DeSclafani’s 2018 is in danger.

      • What mistake? Latos is done. Nobody else will be stupid enough to let him go full Arroyo for them next year. Thats the 1 scrub we won’t even resign

  24. This must be really hard on our position players to look up almost daily and be way behind by the second or third inning.

  25. Wohoo, bases loaded and no outs and we actually scored. That’s progress for these guys.

    • In all fairness Tom, the Reds hit a couple balls pretty hard there. They just were right at people.

      More upset about the continued BB by Reds’ pitchers. A walk to Ryu? Really? You can’t walk the pitcher leading off an inning.

  26. The Rockies are getting good pitching from homegrown talent and turned it around from 75-87 last year. Arizona and Milw lost big last year and they’re playing well. The Twins have been horrible and they’re competitive. Of course the Reds are going to struggle against teams with way more resources like LA & the Cubs but they’re being easily lapped by the other small market teams as well.

  27. Followed up by a first pitch line out by Schebler.Again on the first pitch after a walk and then Peraza hitting ahead of Mesaraco,why is that he hits before him again,grounds into a double play on the second pitch to him.Our batting order and our baseball IQ is just off the charts.

    • Man….please ease up on taking pitches. Other teams guys are going 2-0, 3-1 on every hitter like our no talent bunch of scrubs. You take 2 pitches last night and Wood has you down 0-2….atbat over! I don’t see our guys generally chasing out of the zone….its just other pitchers are 10x better then ours. They throw strikes early and get ahead like you’re supposed to.

      • Trying to say our pitcher get behind 2-0, 3-1 constantly because they suck. Other teams pitchers throw strikes and force our guys to swing.

  28. We walk a bunch and never take walks.Sounds like we are major fundamentally flawed in our basic fundamentals.

  29. Just saw where Astin is hitting for himself.Guess we can’t over work the pen.OOOPS I forgot who pitches tomorrow.My mistake.

  30. Seven runs through the first 4 innings today just verifies to me that Adleman pitched a pretty good 6 innings last night. Bailey & Finnegan could help in a couple weeks, but about 3 weeks too late.

  31. The Reds season is collapsing. Oh well, I’ve got to remember it’s another rebuilding year.

  32. Our starters aren’t good and walk a bunch of hitters.Our team swings a lot and have scored a bunch of runs.My point about taking or swinging is this we never alter our approach at all regardless of what is happening in the game.Schebler could have hit one nine miles on the first pitch but he didn’t and Peraza who shouldn’t hit ahead of Mesaraco at any time could have done the same but he didn’t.You have the bases loaded and no outs and Ryu throws 3 pitches and is back in the dugout.This was and probably is the only chance we had to get back in the game and well.I could go through every game win or lose and find several times when we do the same thing.We never alter our approach.As far as the other teams pitchers throwing strikes well why would they because we are what 6th in the league in runs scored so wouldn’t they try to be a little careful.I really believe some guys do throw strikes to us like Wood last night but I believe more try to take advantage of our being aggressive and just throw it close.Last example and I will leave it alone.Dickey the Braves starter came in averaging 5 walks per game and we swung at everything the first 3 innings and then we starting taking more and more and he was gone by the fifth inning.Now you could say he just lost his control but what happened is we stopped swinging early and often.

  33. Roberts said two days ago they were putting in Kenta Maeda for Sunday, saving Kershaw for the Mets and Wheeler. Smart move, with Bronson as the opponent, they could use their 4th outfielder and be the favorite

    • They should deal for Irabarren (1.69 ERA in 5.1 IP at AAA) before the game and put him up against Arroyo! Now that would be fun to see.

    • Dan Straily 3.58 era. They’re hitting .215 off him. I like Castillo but my suggestion would be that if they EVER find a halfway adequate pitcher again under 30 then keep him please!!

      • Agreed…..if Adleman can keep giving us 6 innings and only two runs….he’s an excellent bargain #4/#5 starter who can pitch like this for another 6 years without power pitching wear and tear (see Latos, Bailey) and be part of a winning ball club. Substitute Strailey for Arroyo or Wojo/Bonilla/Davis/anyotherScrub and we’re in the thick of this NL Central 2017 race.

        Next year/two years the Reds pitching staff can markedly improve but with home run streaky hitting hit and miss free swingers still end up much further behind than this year with the Cubs ready to spend money to replace the holes in their staff and Milwaukee on the rise and the Cards with a budget not far behind the Cubs to replace Waino & their bullpen (ex-Rosenthal & Oh)….

  34. We got 11 hits,two walks(one was the intentional pass to Mesaraco and the bases loaded one Suraez got)and two runs.That’s 10 runs over the last 5 games with 8 walks.When we homer we score but because we don’t walk much we have to get a bunch of hits to score.

  35. Dodgers don’t need to pitch Kershaw tomorrow to beat us and let everybody know it.Very disrespectful and not classy or professional.Let’s go out and beat em up and show em we won’t put up with that.

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