2017 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Titanic Struggle Recap: Another rough outing for (Reds Hall of Famer) Bronson Arroyo

Final R H E
Milwaukee Brewers (5-5) 5 10 0
Cincinnati Reds (7-3) 1 5 0
W: Nelson (1-0) L: Arroyo (0-2)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–Not much to get excited about here. Zack Cozart was 3 for 3. Cozart continues to hammer the ball; he’s now hitting .481/.516/.704. That’ll do.

–Billy (Hamilton) Ball in the first inning: single, stolen base, sac fly, sac fly. Reds lead 1-0.

Billy hit another ball really hard, in the eighth inning, but it was caught for a line drive out. And made a couple of outstanding plays in the field, as well.

–Tucker Barnhart throws out all the would-be base-stealers. Two more tonight.

–Drew Storen and Barrett Astin weren’t perfect, but they pitched three shutout innings of relief tonight. Because the Reds bullpen is unstoppable.

–Eugenio Suarez was 0-4, but he was simply amazing defensively again tonight. It’s really astounding to consider how much Suarez has improved with the glove. He has been incredible this season.

The Bad
–Bronson Arroyo pitched two perfect innings to begin the game, though there were a couple of loud outs. Then he surrendered four runs in the fourth, and the game was not close after that.

It was a strange night. Two homers allowed, but as Mark Sheldon noted (see tweet below), Arroyo looked decent in every other inning he pitched, and he did go six. Didn’t walk a batter, threw a bunch of strikes. So I dunno.

–Only five hits for the offense? That won’t get it done.

–Joey Votto was 0-3, though he did have a sac fly RBI. He’s hitting .158/.214/.368. And I’m not worried about Joey Votto at all. Seriously, I mean it.

–Arismendy Alcantara struck out again. I’ve been a charter member of the Alcantara fan club — I really think he can help this team — but he has been struggling so far this season. And that might be putting it lightly: in 8 at-bats, Alcantara has struck out 6 times and is hitting .000/.000/.000. Ugly.

Then, in the bottom half of the eighth, Alcantara took over at second base. He almost made a great catch on a line shot, then recovered and threw the ball a mile over Joey Votto’s head. Not a good night for Arismendy.

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–I forgot the Reds could actually lose one of these baseball games. Strange. Let’s hope that never happens again.

–I like Bronson — as we all know — and I’ve been happy to see him back in a Reds uniform. But sheesh, you can’t give up six runs and five runs, as he has in his two starts, and expect to keep pitching in the big leagues. I guess he’ll get one more chance to start, but he’s walking on thin ice right now.

It’s sad, because the guy is a no-doubt Reds Hall of Famer, and I get sentimental over stuff like that. But you get the feeling that the end is near. Maybe he’ll come out and pitch well the rest of the season. I can always hope.

–I probably spend too much time on Twitter, but I’m astounded at all the vitriol towards Arroyo.

–Don’t forget: Billy Hamilton is going to be an All-Star in 2017. Bet the ranch on it.

Tonight’s Tweets

And just because…

91 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap: Another rough outing for (Reds Hall of Famer) Bronson Arroyo

  1. Just think of how excited you would have been 10 days ago at the possibility of Reds winning 6 of their first 10. They have exceeded you expectations and are about to go on another winning streak.
    I think they have to give Arroyo at least a month or 5 starts. He was one batter a way from a decent start in both outings. The most encouraging thing is he did not walk any one in 6 innings.(i know the homers got to stop), Realistically they will struggle with all the rookies maxing out by July if they start now and is really a good idea to have 10 or so players all arbitration eligible at the same time?

    • I don’t think he was that close. There were many hard hit outs…warning track shots. I think he was lucky it was just 5 ER’s

      • He’s going to get Hamilton a concussion or broken shoulder running him into OF walls.

        I just don’t see the upside of Arroyo, considering all the young pitchers we have that are going to get better…Arroyo’s not going to get better.

        • So who do you want to start now Finnegan, Garrett, Ramano, Stephenson, Reed? Who starts in August when everybody besides Finnegan maxes out, I am not counting on Bailey and believe Disco can replace one of them, I truely believe development benefits everyone, you let Reed take some lumps for 2 months like last year and Finnegan the season prior but Rookie Davis probably needs a year at AAA and I doubt anyone else is ready (maybe Jackson Stephens). Plus these guys will regress just like Finnegan’s horrible start Monday.
          Arroyo had 5 starts in 2013 where he gave up 5 or more ER, if this is the route they are going to go, they got to see a few more. If the velocity does not pick up and the homers do not increase, move him to long relief

          • Vic, I wouldn’t be so sure that all of these guys are going to need to be shut down in mid-August. Reed, Stephenson and Garrett have all pitched a full load last year. Reed and Stephenson aren’t going to both be in the rotation full time for the first couple of months anyway. Romano may have some limits but I still see him going through August. So I don’t think you need to be concerned with burning through starters.

            I’m ok with keeping Arroyo and Feldman in the rotation for a couple more turns max. After that, it’s time to move forward with putting the young guys in the rotation.

          • Garrett has pitched 133, 140, & 144 innings the past 3 seasons… he probably does not make the jump to more 160-170- that is at least 5 starts in Aug – Sept that will be needed (assuming you can get 200 innings from each spot)
            Reed pitched 145 in 2015 and 120 last season, Stephenson you might argue but with 137 AAA innings and 37 ML- but after a couple of decent starts earlier in the season , his last 5 starts were horrible- probably was pushed too far. He only threw around 130 the 2 prior seasons and had nothing to build on with a terrible Sept.

        • How do you know with such certainty that he won’t get better? He’s at the beginning of the experiment.

      • To be fair, Garrett had some loud outs, too. I think Arroyo is a long shot to be an effective starter, but we can’t really know yet, and the issue of innings limits for the young guys is a real issue and won’t go away.

        • But we can apply a little common sense, Green. He’s 40. Hasn’t pitched in the majors in nearly 3 seasons and he’s topping out at 86 mph. He’s always relied on deception and change of speeds. If all of his pitches are going to be slow, like they are now, he can’t pitch his game anymore. It’s time to move on.

          • You’re probably right, Mrred, but, still, 86mph is only marginally slower than his fastball when he was effective, and still quite a bit faster than his breaking stuff. What we’re seeing could be simply the effect of not having pitched in two years, or it could be that, as most here believe, he’s done. The Reds early success gives this added urgency for us because, to some extent, we’re invested in a good year instead of a sorting-out year, so Arroyo looks like an impediment. And he may be, but he also might decrease the pressure on the Reds to make bad decisions about the young pitchers for the sake of having a rotation in August. Or trading prospects for the same reason.

          • It’s an important distinction to say he’s “touching 86,” but he’s really “sitting” at 83-84mph from what I’ve seen. And, the guns are hot this year b/c of the league-wide change to Trackman, so subtract another 0.75mph from those figures.

          • In the latter part of his last time with the Reds, Arroyo *himself* used to say that he needed to get fastball up to 88 to be effective.

          • I believe in his last year when he was two and five Jamie Moyer was topping out in the mid to high seventies. Next to Moyer Bronson is Aroldis Chapman.

          • Is there any reason to hope that he will be able to increase his velocity to 88 as his arm gets in shape or is 85 what you would expect?

  2. Of course we all wanted Bronson to succeed, but the writing is on the wall that he doesn’t have the ability anymore. He was bad in Spring, and now he is bad when it’s for real. Why was he chosen to start for the Reds?

    Can someone that manages the player clocks provide us with the minor League pitchers that are eligible to come up after gaining the extra year of control? Romano?

    Or how about Stephenson starts for BA, while Reed takes Davis’s spot. Astin fills 1 bullpen slot, and recall a AAA pitcher for the other bullpen spot.

    • I think you are missing the point that anyone who starts now, will be shut down by mid-August if they do not miss a start. I think ideally Stephenson and Reed figure enough out and finish in the rotation in Sept when they shut Garrett and whomever else down. As far as “recall a AAA pitcher for the other bullpen spot” that was the strategy last May and look what you got.

      • I think they are OK as far as innings limits. Cody Reed will likely need to be shut down. This can be achieved with the help of Disco and Homer.

        Innings pitched last year:

        Stephenson: 173
        Reed: 110
        Garrett: 144
        Davis: 125
        Romano: 156

        • I am more confident Arroyo has more of a chance at throwing 5 quality starts than Homer in 2017. IMO they pushed Stephenson too far in Sept and made him a head case this spring, probably rushed Reed, I suspect they keep them in the bullpen in the first half- build some confidence they can finish strong a lot like Homer Bailey did after they rushed him his first few years. I have seen nothing to show Davis is ML ready. You can make head cases out of your starters or allow Arroyo take some beatings and actually devlop the talent.

        • To be devils advocate -Disco goes from 135 in 2014 to 184 in 2015 after throwing 27 in fall league in between- not sure if there is any connection between arm troubles to start the last 2 seasons.

      • All good fair points, including yours Vic. My personal beef with weekly Arroyo BP sessions is two fold. First we now have 4 (5 with cingrani!) guys in the bullpen who are potential starters, two of them are there due to injury concerns. Got it, arguable, but whatever. What about Reed and Stephenson though? So now we have 4-5 guys who get MLBers out in the pen, so they’re too good for AAA, but not good enough to be bottom of our rotation? I love Arroyo, but this isn’t HOFer Greg Maddux or Glavine here, he was an innings eater at his best.

        Second reason: we’re 7-3. Maybe we’ll be 7-17 in 2 weeks. Maybe we’ll be 17-7. But when I see us giving away baseball games at 7-2, it hurts a bit more. Maybe this is short sighted and misguided but it’s there nonetheless.

  3. Mesoraco caught 9 innings on Wednesday and started at catcher again tonight, but was pulled for a defensive replacement in the bottom of the 8th after hitting in the top of the 8th. The move was ostensibly a double switch with Mesoraco replaced by a relief pitcher, but the relief pitcher was replaced the next inning by another relief pitcher anyway, so the double switch was pointless.

    • Baker and price love to do that, last night they got Cozart out of the game instead of using Storen for a 2nd inning or using a 3rd relief pitcher in the 9th. The offense really had nothing going but little things like that could make a difference, maybe let Scooter PH in the 8th getting something going. had 3 of the first 4 got on in the 9th Cozart’s spot would have represented the tying run.

  4. I think the starting rotation will be a work in progress still for long, there’re many variables now: injuries, rookies performances, roster needs, etc.

  5. Can someone tell me what in the he’ll is wrong with Reds fans and why they don’t show up at the ballpark? I mean after the road trip they just had they came home at 7-2. I turn the game on for their return home against the Brewers and there is hardly anyone in the ballpark. No wonder Cardinals fans talk so much crap about reds fans. Reds fans are fairweather fans, I mean come on. I live in California and i’m a Red’s fan. I feel bad for baseball’s first professional team.

    • Agreed …. and they like to call Cincinnati a baseball town .. It was great weather night too.. Go figure

    • Reds never draw well on weeknights until school is out. That said, a few schools are on spring break right now. I don’t know.

  6. Except for the 3rd, Bronson pitched well. Better than his first start too. It’s April, this is still transition time for the starting staff and roster. I’m sure both will play itself out in the next 30 days.

    • Arroyo would have given up a few more runs had it not been for Hamilton in center.

      I think our pitching, even with the gaudy bullpen numbers, will be sustainable. I think our starters will gradually work more innings lessening the load on the bullpen.

      The hitting is what has concerned me, as i noted in an earlier post. We have six players who are batting better than .300, and Votto, Schebler, hitting where the fielders are. Both are going to change.

    • He gets Wacha out in the 4th, who knows if he would have been able to squeeze one more inning in the fifth and it is a successful start. Hope the velocity picks up so he has more speeds to alter and I suspect the homers decrease.

  7. Arroyo doesn’t walk anybody, because he always offers up an eminently hittable pitch within the first 4 pitches.

    Many of the “let’s pitch our old friend Bronson” crowd are the same ones who bashed Jocketty for pitching his old buddy Marquis. Good hitters will kill Arroyo, just as they did Marquis. It’s a small sample size this year on Arroyo, but Rosanne Barr’s singing the national anthem was a small sample size, too.

    • Exactly. These people think Arroyo was Nolan Ryan making a comeback. The guy was hit hard tonight and is lucky Billy is in centerfield. With Baltimore and the Cubs coming up , we should see balls leaving the park at an alarming rate. Oh well I guess I can watch hockey every 5 days.

      • Enough hyperbole. Who exactly are “these people” that thought Arroyo was Nolan Ryan making a comeback? Ummm….no one. There was the thought/hope that he could pitch some passable innings for the first 2-3 months. That’s about it. So far in his two starts he has failed to do that. It will end soon enough, either now, in a few weeks or by mid-June.

    • Arroyo coming back was also predicated on the notion that the Reds aren’t meant to be playing meaningful baseball games. There was really no harm in having him come in. Nobody would be noticing much if the Reds had started a 2-7. Despite the success, I still don’t think that come September, we’re going to be saying “if only we hadn’t let Bronson start those few games!”

      He won’t be the reason that the Reds dip under .500. That said, if the Reds want to be respected, I think it’s fair that they respect the team (and Bronson) enough not to let it continue too much longer. Six and one half dozen of the other to me if it was the difference between Bronson leaving a hanger and Robert Stephenson walking six guys.

      The difference with the Marquis spot was that it was presented as a legit answer to the rotation on a team that was expected to be good. In fact he was given the spot before he earned it. Bronson was presented as an option to help a young and weaker team get by. Bronson became part of the rotation mostly by default of the injuries. Very different.

  8. It would be more palatable to watch this continued Arroyo experiment it there hadn’t been the Marquis failure in 2015, or the Simon disaster in 2016. There is little reason to believe the Reds have confidence in Arroyo’s chance to succeed, But Reds FO is confident Reds fans will buy into this charade. As for alternatives, besides Stephenson & Reed (already on the active roster), there’s Romano,Wooten & Adleman in Louisville. There’s even been a couple young arms dfaed this past week. You have to wonder what old relic the Reds will drag out & present as a comeback sp next year.

    • See MattW comment above. I do not get why Adleman is any better than Arroyo, I still believe in Arroyo improving, Adleman can provide depth at AAA

  9. Another thing last night, seemed to me like the Reds hitters, when down 5-1, were swinging at 2-0 pitches (Barnhart) and 3-0 pitches (Votto), when we needed base runners… personally, doesn’t make much sense to me.

    • Especially from Votto. What his strategy is (ie- swing at all the pitches that are close) seems to be in opposition to his career thus-far. We’re getting to the point already where swing rates begin to stabilize (they are the first stats to do so), so we can be sure this is a deliberate approach change and not random noise.

      • I’m not willing to judge Votto’s hitting philosophy, just saying last night’s game frustrated me by the lack of patience at a time when they needed baserunners.

        • Oh, sure .I’m with you.

          I hope I’m not judging. I think there is room for observation between trust and judgment.

          So far, he’s swung more than Brandon Phillips. That’s a pretty stark change. I’ll trust Votto that it will work, but he’s made a deliberate change.

  10. Please stop with the Marquis references. They show a fundamental misunderstanding of where the Reds were in early 2015 vs now. The 2015 Reds were at the end of their competitive window and Marquis was signed off the scrap heap when the Reds were unwilling/unable to spend any more. He was signed to contribute to a team that had 1 last chance to compete.

    Arroyo is a band aid. The team hasn’t reached their competitive window. Arroyo isn’t here to win games; he’s here to eat innings and enable flexibility with others.as they continue to develop. The team trust is character and work ethic. As horrible as Simon, et al were last year, they saved them from over using Stephenson and others too soon.

    While I’m sure the Reds would like to be good in 2017, it’s not as important and sorting things out before their window opens. This isn’t a team trying to win. This is team that is still building and Arroyo is pitching in a season that doesn’t matter so others aren’t wasted./over used.

    • Yes, Chuck… I didn’t read down to this post before I posted my very similar thoughts about the comparisons to Marquis. There’s a difference between enjoying the hot start and buying into it.

    • Arroyo is done….its over! If you think anything else then you’re a corporate apologist and United Airlines would love to hire you immediately! He’s not a band aid….Arroyo is broken glass on the floor. He’s going in for surgery and coming out with tainted blood! Adleman is better (4.00 era last year in 69ip). Rob Wooten is probably better….whoever he is? We’ve seen this before and it was stupid then. Guess what? Its still stupid!!

      • You may be right and if he continues to suck he’ll be replaced. He’s had 2 starts and it’s mid April. I’m sure the Reds of September will look different than the Reds of April

      • Yikes, a little strong there no? Nobody is saying that Bronson is pitching well and that he should indefinitely keep pitching. I’d be perfectly fine if he rode off into the sunset today. Just trying to reign in some reason behind the difference between the Marquis comparisons.

        People may want Sal Romano. He’s pitching great, I’m excited about him. But, as as has been said, there’s only so many innings in these young arms, and we might really appreciate having Romano be able to go 180+ next year when this whole team should be even that much better.

        So yes, the Reds could insert any random guy in there, and they probably will. Heaven forbid they gave a guy that gave the team A LOT of good years a chance one more time. But even if this team continues to surprise, that probably just means they finish around .500. Anything more than that and it’s a case of lightning in a bottle. We’ll know more by June.

          • Fair enough on his Romano’s IP. I didn’t flesh out that his jump in innings could be used most valuably next year (and then beyond) while he remains the cheapest, and if he’s as good as we hope, they’ll have him just a little longer than throwing him into a losing season.

            But, maybe they won’t lose so much and I can certainly hear the argument that overall, the extra year of control is often not a huge issue except for break-out stars. Maybe we’re learning with pitchers… use ’em while you got ’em!

        • Romano is starting in AAA, so they aren’t saving innings on him by pitching Arroyo in the majors.

          I think it is important–right now and not tomorrow or next year–to emphasize winning. This group of young players needs to have the goal of winning games pounded into them. Using Arroyo, band-aid or not, doesn’t further that goal. They have young options, so they should use them. If they need a veteran in July to eat innings, then they can find one.

        • Many of us are very close on this but we won’t know more of anything by June if we’re giving up a potential victory every 5th day.

          No one thought they’d compete this year, so this was the plan, got it, but they look competitive and if you wait until June before making the change then you’ll lose 8-10 starts. There’s an assumption there I know. I’m claiming Arroyo loses all those starts and a young replacement outperforms him.

          I’m not saying alter the organizations philosophy here for the chance to compete all the sudden. I’m saying this particular move should be made.

    • I don’t think the comparison of Marquis and Arroyo is as wrong as you imply. Certainly not a “fundamental” misunderstanding. They are both dead-end pitchers signed because of nepotism – Marquis by Jocketty, Arroyo by Williams. Contrary to your description of Marquis’ role, back then he was described as an innings-eater. No chance Arroyo gets a try out, let alone a spot in the rotation if he isn’t a popular former Reds player. The notion that there aren’t other young pitchers who could be used in Arroyo’s slot also seems pretty obviously wrong. Reed, Stephenson, Lorenzen, Romano. How many alternative pitchers need to be listed?

      Sure, the Marquis and Arroyo signings weren’t *exactly* alike. If that’s your point it’s a pretty narrow one.

      • The problem with Arroyo is he is 40 and has not pitched in 3 years with a major injury/surgery. Those are tough facts to ignore. He also didn’t earn anything in spring training based on performance. He was given a spot. While he never needed 93 mph to be effective, he does need 88-89mph.
        Its getting to an awkward level for the Reds.

        • Yes, exactly. And I think you have to throw in there that Arroyo wasn’t a world beater at age 35 either. His ceiling is really, really low.

      • Steve… certainly the familiarity/nepotism aspect is very similar, no contest. But what about the general context of why and when they were brought in (still trying to win/compete vs. just starting to try to win)? Maybe the context isn’t enough to justify not using the younger guys, but that part seems very different to me.

        • The context is sorta different. 2015 wasn’t an all-in type situation. Ownership didn’t allow any new payroll spending. But the fact that the context is different doesn’t make the pitchers different. If Jocketty was GM now and Marquis was at the stage in his career now he was in 2015, Jocketty would have signed him. Same with Arroyo, if he had been 40-yo and available at the start of 2015. Maybe one difference is there was more uncertainty whether Arroyo could pitch at all. Squishy veteran leadership and vague notions of innings eater combined with “we know that guy.” Same thing.

      • Just curious if there is any pros to using Arroyo that can objectively be found from all the dissenters or is the view- this is just another boneheaded personnel move?

        • Innings eater?

          I think this is a bad argument, too. But it’s the one I’ve seen. I view it as eating opportunity and experience, not innings. Reds have enough young pitchers they don’t need to worry about eating innings.

        • Wins aren’t a great metric….But if your team loses when you start…..That’s a pretty good indicator…Reds are 7-1 when non-Arroyos start. I can’t see reds winning 3 of 4 of his next starts….I see more L’s.

    • He’s a MLB ballplayer who’s had a lot of MLB success. The last thing the guy wants to do is make a fool of himself out there or let his teammates down.

  11. Rotation should be:

    Feldman
    Finnegan
    Reed
    Garrett
    Stephenson

    Feldman plus the 4 young guys. I like it.

    • Sign me up for this. When Disco comes back, remove the least effective. Bailey gets back, and can provide innings savings for Reed and Garrett, who had the least amount of inning pitched last year.

    • everyone thinking like you will be saying in September, “why did they just throw these guys to the wolves, made head cases out of all of them” Maybe they can bring Holmberg and Melville to pitch in September…this time last week every body was saying the exact same thing about Feldman they are saying about Arroyo and now he is the head of the rotation?

  12. That second time through the lineup killed Arroyo last night. Maybe that is the solution to keeping Arroyo longer than 4 or 5 starts. Move him to the bullpen and let him go 1 or 2 innings. Arroyo for an inning or 2 at 84-85 mph and then he is out before the hitters can adjust. Then a host of relievers to choose from to come in after him throwing 95 or more. That might work. He got ML hitters out for 5 of the 6 innings without damage. He could be a useful reliever.
    On a night the offense didn’t show up, Arroyo going 6 innings is a mission accomplished. Four game series are hard to win anyhow. Try for 3 wins, but make sure to get 2 wins and then call it even this weekend.

  13. I picked up a snipett of an interview with Zack Cozart discussing his personal (team pervasive?) attitude last season regarding the inept bullpen. It was not pretty but it was candid. Last season, the bullpen was not the only issue, but it was probably the most significant (weakest link) issue. Early this season, there aren’t so many issues impacting the Reds, but the most significant (weakest link?) appears to be starting pitchers getting hammered and not pitching deep into the game.

    The good news is that the situation is not pervasive and consistent through the starting pitching staff, but when the team comes to expect such a result, it can impact the attitude and performance of the team. Last night I did not see the energy and enthusiasm from the earlier games. Was the a correlation between the Reds starting pitching for that game and the lack of energy and enthusiasm or did the Reds just have an off game? I certainly don’t have that answer, but the possibility should be concerning at least.

    • I think just an off game. The team didn’t get back from Pittsburgh until about 2 a.m. and, while there were hard it balls the first two innings, it isn’t like Arroyo gave up 4 in the 1st inning. When that happens it is demoralizing I’m sure.

  14. Even if 2017 Bronson Arroyo would return to being “best ever” Bronson Arroyo, say 2006 Bronson Arroyo, there’s a good chance he still wouldn’t be as effective as one of the talented young pitchers would be. Arroyo’s FIP was below league average every year since 2007. I just don’t get what people are hoping Arroyo at 40 can realistically become, *even assuming the best* possible recovery.

    • My view is that they overused DIsco in 2015 and Stephenson last Sept (he had some descent ML starts earlier), I feel they developed Leake and Ceuto adequately. If someone can eat a few April starts there will be more September starts for the younger guys. I don’t expect him to last all season or beyond April but still rooting for him irrationally, not sure why management has him in there.

  15. I posted this above also. Innings limits are not that bad at all. So eating innings should not be a reason for keeping Arroyo. Disco and Homer will provide innings relief for those who need it, when they return.

    I think they are OK as far as innings limits. Cody Reed will likely need to be shut down. This can be achieved with the help of Disco and Homer.

    Innings pitched last year:

    Stephenson: 173
    Reed: 110
    Garrett: 144
    Davis: 125
    Romano: 156

  16. I also don’t understand Bryan Price’s comments on the mlb website. They implied that the preference is to call up Romano to pitch on Sunday rather than use Reed or Stephenson in that spot.

    Yes, I am bullish on Romano and I definitely see him as part of the rotation for many years. But Reed needs to be given another chance. He has thrown 5 innings out of the pen without giving up a hit. Certainly he has walked a couple too many, but he also has continued to get strikeouts.

    I’m just worried that Price has relegated Reed to one of his bullpen “roles” that he seems to love.

  17. You’re exactly right,and that explains prices lineup for his 1st start.no one is expecting anything out of his starts and last night was no exception.which also explains the paltry attendance

    • I don’t think the attendance would have been appreciably different if any of the other pitchers were starting. The “paltry” attendance is because it is a weeknight in April in Cincinnati. Plus the opposition is Milwaukee. There would be more people in the stands if it was the Cubs, but those people would be wearing blue.

  18. I think it’s best for the club to replace Arroyo with Reed in the rotation. It seems that Mesoraco is ready 9 innings followed by what would have been 9 (8) except a double switch. When Meso is brought up is perfect timing for Arroyo to sail off into the sunset, having successfully pitched after tommy john and shoulder surgery at age 40.

    Problem, Brian Price isn’t for it. He has implied this twice in post game press conferences. Hopefully Williams puts his foot down!

  19. Yeah…I like what I’ve seen from Price so far but last night really rubbed me the wrong way! If you’re not going to start Reed on Sunday then pinch-hit for Arroyo in the bottom of the 5th with 1 on/1 out and put Reed in! We were down 4 runs and had 14 outs left so why give up an out for a base? They have a 8 man bullpen and a slugging pitcher as an extra (primary?) pinch hitter so use them!!

    • That has always bothered me about Price, and Bill Lack mentioned it in the game thread as well. Is the Reds’ bullpen already so overly taxed that they couldn’t cover four innings if they pinch hit for Arroyo with one out and one on in the fifth inning? The goal is still to score runs, right? … As it is, the Reds got only one more inning out of Arroyo anyway, so the bullpen still had to cover three innings instead of four.

  20. And for what it’s worth, even in Arroyo’s better years, he tended to run into an inning or two in some starts when he just couldn’t work through trouble. And the damage would be inflicted quickly, before the manager even had time to get the bullpen going. … The only difference now, it seems, is that he is even less able to get out of trouble because hitters can sit on his ‘fast’-ball.

  21. The Arroyo experiment will take care of itself in due time even though I still think it is a waste of time to begin with.He won’t be sent back out to get beat up many more times nor will he want to.Plenty of younger guys to send out there and sometimes as will some of the other guys they will get beat up just like Bronson.The difference is power arms play at all levels and guys throwing low’s 80’s just don’t play at all.We all know this to be true so let the young guys play.To me its not about winning or losing because even though we are better this year in so many ways we still play in what was and still may be the best division in baseball.A 500 record may not be in our reach this year so finding out who can play and who can’t is what I want to see happen.

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