Reds 4
Cubs 5

Box Score | Win Probabilty

Good evening, Reds fans. There was Reds baseball for the last time this year. Here are some things about it.

The Good

The bullpen really got the job done for the first 4 innings they pitched.

No one on the offense really stands out. Barnhart had the big hit, but really, it was a team effort and they ended up with 4 runs against the best team in baseball.

The Bad

Robert Stephenson wasn’t very good. He was done after 4 innings and 88 pitches. He walked 5. He needs to stop doing that. Seriously. It’s been a problem his entire career and he isn’t going to be a productive major league pitcher until he gets his control, well, under control.

Raisel Iglesias pretty much gave the game away. That didn’t happen much this year, but it happened today.

Not so Random Thoughts

Can we just pause and talk about the glorious season Joey Votto had. We don’t even have to talk about his poor start. It doesn’t matter at this point. He finished 2nd in the league in OPS. He hit over .400 in the second half. He had a 5 WAR season for the 6th time in his career. He led the league in OBP for the fifth time. The only players to ever lead the league in OBP 5 times or more are: Joey Votto, Barry Bonds, Wade Boggs, Carl Yastrzemski, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb. Yes, that is the list. Yes Joey Votto is on it. He is great.

Next year, the Reds will be better than they were this year. They were 1 game over .500 in the second half and still have plenty of ways to improve. I’ve said before that I think the Reds could very well finish second next year. I still think that’s true. But, at the very least, they won’t stink next year, and that will be nice.

And speaking of next year, imagine what we’re likely to see in Cincy. Amir Garrett, Jesse Winker, Dilson Herrera, maybe Nick Senzel, a full year of Jose Peraza, a pitching staff that isn’t held together with spit and duct tape. The kids are coming and it should be fun.

It’s been fun this year, too, even when they were bad. I liked watching kids get chances and players come around. We’ve gotten through the bottoming out, now we just watch and see how high the team can climb. See you next year, kids.

Jason has been a fan of the Reds since he was born. He really had no choice in the matter. He has been writing at Redleg Nation for a few years, and also writes and edits at The Hardball Times. His debut novel, When the Sparrow Sings, is available now and concerns baseball, among other things. You can find more information at

Join the conversation! 36 Comments

  1. …not to mention the record setting pitching staff….

  2. I thought they were going to crap away the 2nd pick by winning this game. Thanks guys.

  3. With some thoughtful effort by the Front Office and the absence of the bad luck with injuries, the Reds should easily have a better pitching staff.

    I don’t think we will see Senzel in 2017 in Cincinnati, unless he is unbelievable or the Reds have a devastating number of injuries.

  4. Things set up nicely to grab that #2 pick. Don’t like to lose, but there is some benefit in this situation.

  5. Does anyone mind giving me the permutations that got us to the second pick? Such as who needed to win who needed to lose?

    • We needed to lose and everyone tied and below us had to win and that happened

    • To be specific Seat, the Reds needed to lose and Atlanta and Tampa needed to win. Nothing else mattered today related to the draft position for the Reds. If the Reds can repeat their apparent success from the 2016 rule 4 draft in the 2017 rule 4 draft…wowzer!

  6. I’ve said before that I think the Reds could very well finish second next year.

    Wishful thinking. Could, might, possible. IF. We’ll see. Let the offseason begin.

    • I agree with the second place finish. I think with high probability the Reds will be better than the Pirates and Brewers. I like our talent much better than theirs. I also think there is a reasonable chance the Reds will better than the Cards and can take second place. Unfortunately the Cubs are a real argle bargle. They won 103 games with a bunch of young guys and get Kyle Schwarber back. Not good.

  7. The Front Office hasn’t done anything this off season.

  8. Am I the only diehard Reds fan that was rooting for a loss today? They ended up with a #2 lottery pick for the 2nd straight year. If they had won that game they would have had the #5 pick. Potentially an enormous difference. I will now wash my mouth out thoroughly for yelling c’mon Cubs at the TV.

    • I was there with you Philip

      Hard to root for the Redlegs to lose though

      I was thinking that they were going to be too good to get the job done especially when we brought in Iglasias

    • It was definitely the silver lining around the cloud, Philip. Unfortunate that Price got extended: When he brought Iglesias in with the game on the line, it just affirmed his cluelessness.

  9. Given the chain of events it took for the Reds to end up with the #2 pick in 2017, there is no way to say that in the final analysis that they were undeserving of it.

    If what we saw of Iglesias today is representative of what he is going to be if he pitches back to back days, then I think he is not a closer.

    • Aroldis Chapman will be a free agent. Maybe the Reds will sign him to be the closer.

      • Kenley Jansen is also a free agent. Maybe we sign Jansen as the setup man and then Aroldis as the closer.

      • Yankees will sign Chapman. They just picked the Cubs pocket for young talent for half of a year of Chapman. Great move by the Yankees.

        • The rumors are that Chapman liked New York and that the Yankees want him back. Dellin Betances had a bad September which may provide even greater motivation for the Yankees to sign Chapman. Also, Miller is gone. However, if after 108 years Chapman somehow helps the Cubs in any significant way to a World Series title I think most Cub fans will not feel like they got their pocket picked.

      • Just pointing out the Brantley theory that a (traditional) closer needs to be able to be depended upon to have his top stuff back to back pretty much without fail and really should be able to even go three days in a row several times a month. JB has been pointing this out as a possible issue with Iglesias and Lorenzen since their returns.

        Obviously one blown save does not a washout make; but, even on his controlled protocol, Iggy was clearly slipping in the last month of the season.

        • OHIOJIMW, I was just kidding with my remark about Iglesias above, but you and Brantley raise an interesting point. Remember, though, that Iglesias and Lorenzen are both rehabbing injuries, and that might have affected their stamina. Also, they are both young and not very experienced at pacing themselves at the MLB level.

  10. Great to see the Cards sweep the Bucs and still end up on the outside looking in. I share the sentiments expressed above that it will not be surprising if the Reds and Brewers move past the Bucs and give the Cards all they can handle for 2nd place.

    Depressing thought…. It looks like the Cards are ready to cut the cord with Matt Holliday just when the Reds are talking that they need to add some power to their bench. Let’s hope Holliday doesn’t become the next over the hill Cardinal to wear a Reds uniform….

    • I hate the Pirates even more than the Cardinals. But I can’t imagine why you think they are about to fall off a cliff. They have young studs entering their prime in Cole, Tallion, Polanco, Marte, etc. They have more major league talent than the Reds and their farm is just as good, if not better, than the Reds. Plus, they have a front office that can actually sign bargain free agents and get production ; Burnett, Liriano, Martin, Cervelli, Freese, Jaso, etc..

      At this point, the Pirates’ future looks brighter than any team in the division besides the Cubs. They are an extremely well run organization and i think its more likely that they pass the Cubs next year than the Reds pass them.

      Sucks, but there it is.

      • Because the Pirates show the same signs of decay as the 2013 Reds and have yet to have to bring the talent in their farm system to bear in solving their issues.

        This is a team whose ceiling was WC qualifier and they’ve slipped off that ceiling. The Reds won as many games versus the Cubs in 2016 as the Pirates. The 2016 Pirates finished at 10-9 against both the Reds and Brewers and went 9-10 versus the Cards. The mystique is gone.

        Where’s the Pirate’s starting pitching for 2017 beyond Cole and Tallion? For that matter can Cole’s health be counted on?

        They’ve got money tied up in Freese and Jaso for the same position (1B) plus that’s the natural position of top prospect Josh Bell who doesn’t appear to have a position to play once Marte is back in LF and Polanco returns to RF. Who is at 2B and SS for them. Does Cutch have a resurgence in him or will they trade him for pitching?

        They look to have as many questions as the Reds come spring.

        • The Reds farm system was barren after 2013. Billy Hamilton was the only player from the farm ready to contribute.

          The Pirates have 3 elite prospects ready, or near ready, in Bell, Meadows, and Glasnow. All 3 of those guys were in the top 25 on John Sickles end of the year top 100. They had 5 top 100 guys overall, compared to the Reds 4.

          Up the middle they have Mercer, Rodriguez, Kang, Harrison, Frazier, Hanson. Some combo of those players. Having too many solid players at one position is not a knock against them.

          Pitching was a weakness this year. But Cole, Tallion, and Glasnow is a more talented top 3 than any combo of 3 Reds pitchers. They may have fixed Ivan Nova.

          And again, the most important thing is that they have a front office that has a knack in finding undervalued talent on the free agent market and in other organizations. Neal Huntington is every bit as good, if not better, than Theo and Friedman.

          • My point was that on the field the Pirates have as many questions as the Reds coming into 2017; and, without debating the eventual ceilings of the guys each team has coming on, the Reds may be a year or even two ahead in transition and thus finish above the Pirates in 2017.

  11. I waited the entire game to see Votto’s last PA. When Votto nailed that last pitch up the middle, I screamed in delight, then the pitcher flailed with his glove and deflected the ball to the SS. If the pitcher doesn’t deflect that drive or if Votto could still run, he has a hit in his final PA of the season and finishes the season leading the NL in OPS. Such is baseball.

    When do pitchers and catchers report to Goodyear?

  12. All in all, it was nearly a perfect final day to the season. Reds lost, preserving their #2 pick. The Cards won, but are kept out of the postseason.

    The only thing I would change would be for the Cards to lose and for the Giants to lose too, sending Vin Scully out calling a win for his beloved Dodgers one last time.

  13. Pitching, pitching, pitching will be the key. I think we can only count on Disco and Finnegan coming back strong next year. I wouldn’t put much faith ina full Bailey recovery. Straily?? Was this a one-off year, or did we get lucky? Lorenzen and Inglesias are fragile. Lamb, Stephenson, Sampson did not show much improvement. Maybe Reed, after a few more starts in AAA, will live up to his promise and Garrett can live up to his. Cingrani maybe a pick-off specialist. And another cheap veteran FA starter doesn’t sound promising.

    Hitting? Can we surround Votto. Big questions are: is Duvall for real. Which Schebler is real? Can Billy build on his improvement? Maybe we see Senzel on the 40-man roster. I think we know what we got with Suarez. Unless we can trade Phillips and Cozart, Peraza platoons with them both to keep him in the line-up. The longer we wait for Winkler, the less excited I get. If Meso is behind the plate, don’t expect many games from him. Barnhart will do.

  14. I agree still a lot of questions for the Reds next year. I think the only thing we can count on is that if (again there is a question) Votto is healthy, he will hit.

  15. Can I say this about Joey Votto:

    1. After not watching more than a dozen games from April through early June because I couldn’t torture myself any more, I tuned into nearly every Votto at bat over the final three-and-a-half months of the season, just to watch him.

    2. I took my whole family to a game in September, just because we had to see him in the middle of this streak.

    I can’t be the only one who reacted this way to him. His economic impact for that club is huge. He was the reason to watch, a reason to go.

    Larkin accomplished the same thing later in his career. The team sucked, but I could still root for him as an individual. That’s not nothing. The point of sports is to provide diversion and bring joy. For me, Joey Votto accomplished by himself what the rest of the organization could not.

    I had fun this year. Despite it all, I already miss baseball. Votto is the reason why.

    • You are not the only one who felt that way about Joey Votto this year. Or about Barry Larkin nit so long ago.

Comments are closed.

About Jason Linden

Jason has been a fan of the Reds since he was born. He really had no choice in the matter. He has been writing at Redleg Nation for a few years, and also writes and edits at The Hardball Times. His debut novel, When the Sparrow Sings, is available now and concerns baseball, among other things. You can find more information at


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