2016 has been a painful season for Reds fans. Not only is the team’s record poor, but we’ve felt the loss of Todd Frazier, Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake and, just a week ago today, Jay Bruce.

We’ve taken solace wherever we can find it. Until recently, that’s meant individual performances like Votto’s hitting rampage, Billy Hamilton’s stolen bases and Adam Duvall’s home runs. After being worst ever, the Reds pitching staff has come around thanks to promotions and better health. The post-ASG streak of six series wins was also a thrill.

Yes, the hated Tony LaRussa and Chris Carpenter are long gone. I’ve got no particular complaints with Mike Matheny and Stephen Piscotty. But nothing provides me greater visceral enjoyment than watching the Reds beat the St. Louis Cardinals.

When we last saw the Cardinals, our Reds were pounding them 7-0 behind Brandon Finnegan. Heading into the 9th inning tonight, the Reds had shut out the Cardinals for 21 innings.

With two outs in the bottom of the 9th and the Reds holding a 4-run lead, their odds of winning stood at 99.5 percent.

A 4-pitch walk, a hit batter, a single, another single, another walk and a hit batter later and the Cardinals had won.

Tony Cingrani was responsible for most of that. But he’s been reasonably solid for most of this season. Every closer blows saves.

Ross Ohlendorf, on the other hand, is having a terrible season. For a while that was disguised by a luck-aided ERA. He’s a 34-year-old washed-up veteran who has no business being on the Reds roster now, let alone being used in high leverage situations. Yet that’s how Bryan Price continues to use him.

Apparently Michael Lorenzen can’t be used more than one night in a row. He hadn’t pitched on Saturday and only threw one inning yesterday. Keyvius Sampson has been fantastic in the past few weeks and had thrown 20 pitches in the past two weeks.

Yet Bryan Price, still stuck in his habits or “roles” established months ago instinctively used Ross Ohlendorf with the game on the line. Ohlendorf again was an unmitigated disaster.

Ross Ohlendorf should be shown the door and right this moment, it wouldn’t break my heart to see Bryan Price follow him out.

Cincinnati 4 • St. Louis 5 |  FanGraphs  | Bessie and Louis

The rest of the game was pretty great, does that count?

Cody Reed put together his best performance for the Reds, an accomplishment all the more impressive on the road in St. Louis. Over 6 innings, Reed gave up four hits and just one walk. He struck out four, throwing 100 pitches.

Blake Wood induced a crucial inning-ending double play in the 7th with Cardinals runners at first and second. Jumbo Diaz had allowed the runners. Wood returned to pitch the 8th. After giving up a leadoff double, Wood induced a weak ground ball and then struck out two St. Louis hitters. It was an impressive performance by Wood.

The good guys jumped into a 3-0 lead on a two-out Zack Cozart double in the 2nd inning, driving in Eugenio Suarez and Tucker Barnhart who had each singled. Joey Votto followed with his first triple of the season, scoring Cozart. The Reds came within a foot of taking a 5-0 lead when Adam Duvall‘s long blast curved just outside the left-field foul pole. The Reds added a fourth run on a double by Brandon Phillips and two ground balls. Duvall had two walks in four plate appearances.

Billy Hamilton stole two bases and now leads the majors in that category with 45. His 88 percent success rate, the same percentage he had last year, is an important part in the value of those SB.

Scott Schebler is 2-22 since his game-winning home run a week ago and has gone 43 plate appearances without a walk. He also spun around like a top misplaying a fly ball on the warning track in the 8th inning.

Robert Stephenson pitched for the Bats tonight. He loaded the bases in the 7th inning without recording an out: 6 IP, 10 hits, 6 ER, 2 BB and just 3 strikeouts. He threw 96 pitches.

116 Responses

  1. james garrett

    The only way to lose a game like we lost is that we have a manager that is absolutely clueless.Yes players need to execute but Tony didn’t have it so you go to your next best option and it is not Ohlendorf.Everybody knew exactly what was going to happen and it did.

    • GreatRedlegsFan

      Looks like the guy is engaged in gambling, I’d send him the FBI (after firing him)

      • Chuck Schick

        The last Reds manager to wager on games was just inducted into their HOF.

        It’s on thing to disagree with a decision or even question someone’s competentence…that’s fair game….but, to accuse someone of potentially throwing games is utterly absurd and irresponsible.

      • ohiojimw

        I agree with you Chuck but this kind of historical badness does tend to make folks think extreme thoughts. 7 men reach after 2 are out, 4 of them without even putting the ball in play, 2 of the 4 HBP. Those sort of antics do bring WWE or even (showing my age here) Roller Derby to mind.

      • lwblogger2

        @OhioJim – I got a friend that plays for the Black and Bluegrass girls and they play for real. Nothing is staged… Cincyrollergirls is the same. I have an ex-gf that plays for them. She loves it. Roller Derby is apparently not staged or scripted at those levels.

      • Chuck Schick

        LW….I’ve always respected you…but now that I know you dated a roller derby professional I admire you as well

      • lwblogger2

        Ha, yeah, well, most of them have pretty normal husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, or whatever… That was also a long time ago. Though she still plays for them.

  2. RedAlert

    If there was ever a doubt that Price needs to exit stage right after this season , tonight put an exclamation mark on that !

    • Redsfan48

      Why wait until after? Start a month early and let the new manager get comfortable with the team in September (knowing that Winker, Peraza, Herrera, etc. will likely be called up then).

  3. nicolecushing

    Games like this are one reason I haven’t been up to Cincinnati to watch a game this year. I think I’ll stick with watching the Louisville Bats. They’re far closer to me, more reasonably priced, and offer a better fan experience on all levels.

    • tjones29

      You can complain all you want (rightfully so) about the Reds success on the field this year, but the fan experience at GABP is second to none. It is a fantastic place to watch a game with a great variety of food/drink. To say Slugger Field offers a better fan experience is simply idiotic. I got Dugout Box seats a couple of weeks ago for $30 apiece(normally $95) on StubHub 3 rows behind the Reds dugout. Even watched our Reds beat the Braves!

  4. Kal

    Let’s say Olendorf gets out of the jam and we win. What would it really even mean in the middle of a rebuild. There’s zero chance he’s around when the Reds get good. He’s a completely meaningless part of the team. Why not let one of the young guys have a chance? No matter what they do, they gain experience, and it means something to the future of the team even if Price (or whoever will be manager when the Reds get good) learns who not to use in that type of situation. At least you find out something meaningful to the future of the team.

    • Redsfan48

      I think that’s precisely the point they tried to get across in this article when talking about Lorenzen or Sampson.

  5. cnybaseballbeat

    That was one of the most spot on recaps I have ever read. Totally agree with its entirety. Glad to hear that I am not alone.

  6. Patrick Jeter

    WOW. I turned the game off after Votto lined out in the top of the 9th. DIdn’t think there was any way…

    Just… wow.

    • Vicferrari

      There should not have been, 2 outs 1 on up 5 is almost impossible to lose…(0.5%?) …unless you quit throwing strikes… which they nearly did if I counted correctly. I think Cingrani threw 2 strikes in his next 11 pitches, and both went for singles. Judging from Game day Ohlendorf’s first 4 pitches were all borberline, but next 4 were not close

    • lwblogger2

      Me too. We went to bed after the Reds batted in the 8th actually.

  7. kywhi

    Perfect recap. Agree with every word, and just have to believe at this point that Price will pay the ultimate penalty for his usage of Ohlendorf in situations like these.

  8. preacherj

    Ok. Molina was on base with 2 outs in the ninth inning, the Reds lead 4-0, and he was the one hit by pitch to win the game…… Did I get that right?

    • ohiojimw

      Yep. Molina was the 1st batter of the 9th and 1st run to score and bases were loaded when he was HPB. So that’s 2 outs plus 4 reached after him and scored plus the two guys left on base ahead of him at the end.

  9. Patrick Jeter

    I hate that Price makes me think bad thoughts.

  10. B-town Fan

    I think when people say anyone can close a game, for what ever reason, that doesn’t seem to be true. JJ Hoover has already been chewed up and spit out in that role and Cingrani is on that same path he has been shaky in recent saves and Olendorf doesn’t even come close to being able to handle that role.

    • Vicferrari

      Chapman blew his fair share it happens, look to last Monday’s game for the Cards closer. I think in 2014 Chapman came in and walked the first 4 batters he faced, hoover ended up giving a walk off to Stubbs

      • vegastypo

        ANY major league pitcher should be able to get three outs before allowing four runs.

  11. MJ Quinn

    It’s too painful to watch. I will not spend my $$$ at GABP…..I sure hope that there is a DFA in Ohlendorfs future. He flat ripped our hearts out during his last 2 appearances. I wasn’t sure if anyone could pitch as bad as Hoover. Boy, was I wrong. I am done……

  12. WVRedlegs

    Whew, this loss was like taking a line drive to the cookies without a cup on.
    After this loss and at this point in to the season it is past time for the rubber to meet the pavement on Accountability Road. This loss is on Price. His strict usage of roles in the bullpen lost this game. No way Ohlendorf should be in the game in that situation. He should had yanked Cingrani when he had to face the RH Piscotty. Iglesias should had been warming up for a one out appearance, not Ohlendorf.
    Accoutabiliuty time. Cingrani should get a ticket to Louisville tomorrow. Ohlendorf should be given his outright release. Schebler should join Cingrani on the trip to Louisville. Winker gets his callup to Cincinnati. Winker and Renda play LF. Duvall to RF. And also bring up a couple of relievers or Stephenson and the most deserving reliever.

    • greenmtred

      I’m no Cingrani fan, but Steve is right: He has mostly been pretty solid this year, though still scary at times. Sending him down for one bad performance is unreasonable.

      • ohiojimw

        I believe Cingrani is however up for arb eligibility; and thus they should take a very long hard look before bringing him back for 2017.

      • WVRedlegs

        Cingrani is off. He has a 3.91 ERA, 4.56 FIP, 5.44 xFIP, 5.03 SIERA, and a 0.0 WAR. These numbers are inflated by yesterday’s 5 ER in 2/3 IP. This points to some problems. His K/9 is down 4 to 6.5 which is bad for him. But his BB/9 is down almost 2 to 4.9. But 4.9 is still bad.
        When Price pulled him from the game, Cingrani had a look of relief coming off the field. He looked like he wanted out. That was bad.

    • lwblogger2

      That will often make one toss ones cookies.

  13. preacherj

    And it was the Cardinals. How bitterly disappointing

    • lwblogger2

      Cards or Pirates always make it hurt more.Actually think I dislike the Pirates more than the Cards at this point.

      • vegastypo

        I tend to think that too, until we actually play the Cardinals. Then it all comes back.

  14. kmartin

    I was not able to follow the game tonight and just now checked in with RLN. I am totally confused. Is Raisel Iglesias injured? In the month of August he has pitched a total of three innings. He pitched two innings on August 4 and one inning on August 7. How could he not be available for tonight unless he is injured? Also what about Lorenzen? Lorenzen did not pitch on August 4, pitched one inning on August 5 and one inning on August 7. Wasn’t he available? How could Ohlendorf be used? There must be injury issues with Iglesias and Lorenzen. I can’t believe the account for this game. If this were April 1 I would accuse Steve of being up to his old tricks.

    • Steve Mancuso

      Iglesias apparently is on a protocol of not pitching in back-to-back games. With his shoulder issues, over-compensating is acceptable. Lorenzen doesn’t have a chronic arm condition. Yet he also has not been used in back-to-back games. As amazing as it may seem, Lorenzen must have been unavailable tonight. Even for one inning. Or one out.

      • ohiojimw

        But with a 4 run lead, i.e. nosave situation, why not send Sampson out to start the inning with the closer in reserve?

      • Big56dog

        Why not let Wood give it a go to get the save, I remember when relievers would get 2 + inning saves. I swear Scott WIlliamson got a 4 innings save in 1999

      • lwblogger2

        I’m thinking both are on protocols where they don’t pitch back-to-back games. In Iglesias’ case I understand why. As for Lorenzen, I have no idea why.

  15. DavidTurner49

    Price is an enigma, especially if this is a rebuilding year. We were asking the same sort of questions about his bullpen decisions last year. But, speaking of rebuilding, at least Reed had a good outing.

  16. ohiojimw

    In do well intellectually with this it doesn’t really matter but emotionally I struggle big time.

    • ohiojimw

      I refuse to allow myself to get angry about this……

      However I hope the powers to be have duly noted that absent Iggy and Lorenzen now, the results from the bullpen are the same as they were before Iggy and Lorenzen joined the pen.

      • greenmtred

        I’m not angry, either. Very calmly I think about bolts of retributive lightning.

  17. DavidTurner49

    Ohlendorf still being on the team is evidently a front office decision. That’s bad enough. But Price continuing to use him regularly in these situations is amazing, just like his use of Gregg last year.

    • ohiojimw

      Just for a minute, I’ll offer a bit of a defense of Price. Who else has he got to use? Iggy and Lorenzen were apparently “not available”. Smith is his long/ middle option; and one about has to presume there is some reason Sampson is being used so sparingly, particularly when he has been effective on the rare (sort of) recent occasions when he has been used.

      • kmartin

        I would be more than happy to see Sampson (25) and Ohlendorf (34) switch roles. Let’s see what the younger guys can do. This season is about building the club for the future.

      • ohiojimw

        Sampson may actually be in a bit of an innings crunch himself albeit under the radar since most of them came as a starter at AAA. Regardless, he is just under 80 innings, his total for last season. In 2014 he pitched 90 innings; and, in 2013 as a full time starter in the Padres system he pitched 150.

        Since earlier this year he was stretched as a starter and throwing 6+ innings an outing at AAA, I’d guess they will let him go to 100 and beyond but would like a number of those to be in place of Finnegan who’ve they’ve said is reaching his limit.

  18. Dan

    Sampson Iglesias and Lorenzen are all on some sort of development process that has the Reds overly cautious. I have no problem with that.
    Just remember Wood, Diaz, Ohlenxoef and possibly even Cingrani are all very expendAble arms with no pitch count or usage limitations. Those 4 will also be easy ones to cut lose if we get in a situation of picking up a person off of waivers or having to protect a person coming back from injury.

  19. Brian

    the walk and the hit batsman by Ohlendorf was definitely not what I expected. I was expecting a Grand Slam by the first batter he faced

    • dan

      Maybe he is on his way to improving. 🙂

    • lwblogger2

      I’d rather see the slam. At least he would have thrown a strike.

      • ohiojimw

        I think her was determined he wasn’t going to give up a slam; and, Moss wouldn’t chase a high pitch.

  20. dan

    I think that there is always an over reaction when we blow a game. This year is lost so why get upset about these things?Reality check is that our competitive spirit needs to take a step back because the Reds have had so many pitching injuries this year that now they are overly protective with anyone that they feel has future value.
    The Reds need to find one more rubber arm that can sit between Iglesias and Lorenzen for next year. I was hoping for Weiss but I believe he is now injured.

    • Redgoggles

      I think I read somewhere that Simon is on rehab…..help is on the way!!!!

  21. wzeman

    I have been one of the last guys standing for Price… but last night kind of set me back.
    Turned it off after Reed left. A step forward for him. However the swimming between the outspoken American and the Russian who has been caught cheating was too good to pass up.

    Have been reminded daily why Schebler got sent down in the first place. Are we just concerned about control now with Winkler?

  22. James H.

    Steve, your honesty and brevity is refreshing, telling it how it is. Olendorf must go.

  23. mdhabel

    Games like last week in Pittsburgh when we fought back to tie at 2 and lost on a first batter walkoff sting, but that pales in comparison to how I felt last night. There are just no words to describe that.

    • StillRed

      Saw that Pittsburgh loss in person. Told my friend when Olendorf came out to start the bottom of ninth, here comes a home run. The problem with losing these games at this point is that it creates a ‘losing’ atmosphere in the clubhouse. You can see it when the team walks off the field. It would take a really good manager to not let that feeling get ingrained in our young guys.

  24. Theresa L

    This may be a lost season, but Cody Reed should have been able to say, “I got my first major league win against the St. Louis Cardinals.” Really upset about this implosion….

  25. big5ed

    Iglesias and Lorenzen sowed the seeds of this by pitching poorly on Sunday. Iglesias used 32 pitches to get through 1 inning; Lorenzen threw 26 pitches in his 1 inning. If Iglesias had pitched his standard 2 innings on Sunday, then Lorenzen would have been available last night, and if Lorenzen hadn’t stumbled, and had thrown only 15 pitches, they could have used him last night. Bad bullpen work feeds off itself.

    They simply have to use Sampson more than they do.

    I’m all in with DFA-ing Ohlendorf. Nice man; cruddy pitcher.

    • vegastypo

      That was exactly my point on the game thread, made when the Reds were leading 4-0 and appeared to be cruising. Turning to anybody else in that bullpen besides those two is just gambling and praying.

      I’m not sold on Sampson, but there might be something there. I love Ohlendorf’s windup. I hate when he actually releases the ball.

  26. jim t

    No reds fan should be happy about how that game was lost last night. That said, this season is about developing are young players. Price is a well respected pitching coach. I will have to defer to his wisdom and experience on how he uses his pitchers. If he feels running Iggy or Lorenzen out there in back to back games is not good long term for them at this time I defer to his wisdom. Fact is if Cingrani and Olendorf can’t hold a 4 run lead without the need to run two pitchers who have spent a great deal of the season on the DL thie issue is with them not the manager.

  27. cfd3000

    This was not, in my mind, a meaningless game – because of the implications for Reed, his progress, and his psyche. The bullpen absolutely has to hold that lead and get him a Win. He finally earned one, pitched well, and had reason to feel good about it, then Cingrani and Ohlendorf kick him in the… cup free area. Not acceptable. And yes, Ohlendorf is awful and must go but I don’t like letting Cingrani off the hook. Any healthy major league pitcher should be able to get one out against any team before allowing four runs to score. He wasn’t unlucky, he was bad. In the at bat to Holliday he looked scared, was overthrowing, and couldn’t even get close to the zone. Sorry, that’s not closer stuff and I’m not talking about his arm. Poor thinking by Price but he didn’t throw any of those awful pitches. Tony and Ross owe Cody a huge apology, on the field and off. Dang.

    • BigRedMike

      Whether Reed gets a win or not, does that really diminish how he pitched? Win is a crazy stat, I believe a Giants pitcher got a win last week without an official pitch being thrown.

      • cfd3000

        Not one bit, BRM, but I’m pretty sure it matters to Cody Reed. When you’re struggling but you know you should be good enough it can be tough to look at those things with a purely rational view. I wish Reed had his first win, but only for his sake and the implications for his mind set. As a fan I’m glad to see him have a good outing regardless of the performance of the relievers.

      • lwblogger2

        Exactly. It still matters to pitchers, especially starting pitchers.

    • lwblogger2

      Guys get hit and give up 4 runs in an inning perhaps. It’s the HBPs and the BBs that are killers. That’s what shouldn’t happen. Some bad luck with some bleeders and then a mistake HR is one thing.

  28. Scott Carter

    Perfectly said Steve. The results were predictable last night, everyone knew it, because Price is stuck in the “Cingrani is the closer” mode. When it was obvious, about after the first hit and walk that he did not have anything” everyone could have predicted that Ohlendorf was coming in. There were three better options in the bullpen, in fact even Justin Smith was a better option. But the guy who is paid to know, the guy that is paid to help our young guys grow, stuck with the old washed up veteran. I agree both Price and Ohlendorf need to be shown the door.

  29. Scott E. Disney

    Apparently MLB.com says that Tim Tebow is going to work out for all 30 teams soon as an OF. Last played as a junior in HS, but was highly touted and had a lot of power. This just raises a lot of questions, how much could he make, does he go to minors? And of course, is he worth the Reds taking a flyer on him? I don’t know, but it would be REALLY wierd to see Tebow manning an OF spot.

  30. BigRedMike

    Reds have 2 players with a wRC+ over 100 and one of them is trending to be under 100.

    The Reds have Winker and Herrera to provide offense in the future? Maybe Peraza?

    Reds need to find some young hitting, just like most teams unfortunately.

  31. preacherj

    At least this outing assisted in the development of Cody Reed. He is developing the same distaste for the bullpen the rest of the rotation surely has.

  32. Chuck Schick

    So the Reds will lose 96 games and not 95 this year. Reed pitched well against a playoff caliber team…and .the 2 bullpen guys that matter long term aren’t being over used in a lost season.

    Ohlendiazhoover won’t be around much longer…but his mere existence has allowed them to not over extend people who will someday pitch in a meaningful game.

    I’m reasonably sure that Bryan Price….a graduate of one of the finest schools in the world…a respected pitching coach and someone that is actually a MLB manager understands that Ohlendiazhoover is bad….but if that’s all you have available , then that’s who you need to pitch.

    This team was projected to be bad and they’re bad…however, .they are on pace to have improved from last year which was a primary objective.

    Get off the cliff…..The Reds don’t know that any of us actually exist.

  33. IndyRedMan

    There are really no legitimate excuses for Price. This all started with using Inglesias for 2 innings with a 7-0 lead last Thursday. That cost them on Friday after they tied the game in the 9th. Sunday…he does it again and brings Inglesias AND Lorenzen into a game with a 4-5 run lead. If he can’t pitch either one of them on back-to-back days (Iggy..ok but why Lorenzen?) then he needs to ration them and use them wisely. No rational person should have any faith in Ohlendorf and very little in Jumbo. Even Wood/Cingrani can walk half the park on any given day so he needs to use Iggy/Lorenzen wisely! Total Failure!!! This is supposed to be a season to answer questions for the players but also for Price and he obviously can’t cut the mustard!!

  34. james garrett

    Wins and losses don’t matter much its how you win or lose that matters or better yet what players are involved.This year should have been and I am still hoping will be come Sept 1st the time to use players that may be part of the future.We know what most of this pen can do already.Diaz was pulled quick in the 7th because he wasn’t getting it done.Point is we know what he is about.Iggy/Lorenzen aren’t going to pitch obviously so that leaves them out.Wood does his thing and that leaves Cingrani and the rest to get 4 outs.If Cingrani is the closer then he stays until the ninth is over period.If he is not then he gets pulled after the Piscotty single not after Holliday bats because Moss is left handed.Regardless Ohly is not and can’t be your next best option in any high leverage situation.We know what he is and we know he will not be part of the future.Players paly and managers manage but this game is on Price if it means anything.The real problem I have as a fan is that I want to see what other players can do so lets do that.If winning is more important then lets do that.You can’t do both with this team because its not going to work.

  35. Scott Carter

    There is no doubt Price is trying to win, he just has not managed the bullpen well. Not having the arms is no longer and excuse. Just don’t use them with a 7-0 lead and a 4 run lead. Like any asset, you have to use them wisely. Perhaps Ohlendorf could have held a 7-0 lead.

  36. Jeremy Conley

    The problem for Cingrani is the same as it ever was: he doesn’t have a second pitch. I watched the meltdown yesterday and Cingrani was throwing plenty hard, but he only threw fastballs. Here’s the pitch F/X data showing it was indeed 100% fastballs:


    So every Cardinal knew exactly what was coming, and that’s never going to work. After the Carpenter and Piscotty singles he was just scared to throw a strike, and reasonably so. When you can’t throw anything but a fastball, and two guys just hit your fastball pretty hard, and Matt Holiday comes up, and you’re left-handed, I’d be scared to throw the fastball too. So the walk to Holiday was as predictable as they come.

    Pitch F/X has Cingrani’s fastball as being 1.14 runs better than an average pitch every 100 times he throws it. That’s good. But his slider is 4.8 runs worse than average, so he never wants to throw it, and that kills the value of his fastball.

    You can’t be a good starter in the league without three pitches, and you can’t be a good reliever without two. Just ask Chapman. Even he struggled to get guys out with just the fastball. Then he finally learns throw the slider and change and has the best seasons I’ve ever seen a reliever have.

    Cingrani needs to go to AAA or into mopup duty until he can throw half-way decent offspeed pitch. He’s never going to be good in high-leverage situations with just his fastball.

    • ohiojimw

      Very true about 1 pitch Tony. If Price was going to bring Olendorf, I don’t get why not for Holiday the RH; and if not then why bring him at all. Let Cingrani finish the job for good or bad versus Moss the LH hitter

      • Jeremy Conley

        That’s a good point I hadn’t thought of. Yeah, it must have been more closer role BS, that you have to let your closer completely fail before pulling him.

      • ohiojimw

        I think the official book says that when you pull the closer you are admitting to the opposition (and your own team) that you’ve entered panic mode. Therefore you don’t do it until you feel the game is lost unless a miracle falls from the sky to save the day.

    • WVRedlegs

      They talked about on TV last night that the umpire behind the plate is a very highly regarded umpire by the players and coaches. But his strike zone topped out at about the players’ belly buttons last night. Not the letters. Cingrani wasn’t getting any high strikes called, or swings and misses, like he usually does which hampered him. They just laid off those and waited for one thigh high in the zone.

      • Jeremy Conley

        The strikezone is never supposed to be up to the letters. By the rulebook, the top of the zone is the midpoint between the shoulders and belt. The letters go across the chest and that would be well above the midpoint. The normal way of approximating the zone is “knees to numbers,” as the small numbers on the front of the jersey approximate the top of the zone (and are just above the belly button).

        In any case, from what I saw there was absolutely nothing wrong with the zone. I just checked the Pitch F/X data and it confirmed that all 8 of his high fastballs were up and out of the zone. Obviously strikes and balls are somewhat subjective, and the computer may have made a mistake on one or two of those, but if you watched that performance last night and thought “man, the problem here is the strikezone,” I feel like we must have been watching different games.

      • lwblogger2

        I’ll add that while I watched the game, the umpire was pretty consistent in not calling high strikes. That means as a pitcher, you can’t expect him to. I have no problems as long as the zone is consistent.

      • WVRedlegs

        Most ML teams don’t have numbers on the front of their jerseys. Some versions of the jerseys have numbers, but only a few. So the bottom of the letters across the front of the jersey has been the de facto line and most are in the same general area as you say. About sternum high.
        But that is Cingrani’s money pitch, especially with 2 strikes. Top of the strike zone fastballs.
        Cingrani just wasn’t hitting the spots Barnhart wanted him to. He wasn’t throwing many strikes.
        The strike zone was consistent.

      • Jeremy Conley

        Just re-watched the meltdown:

        Pham AB: low (ball 1), outside (ball 2), low and outside (ball 3), low (ball 4)

        Wong AB: up and in (HBP)

        Carpenter AB: middle (single)

        Piscotty AB: thigh high, outer half (single)

        Holiday AB: inside (ball 1), up and way outside (ball 2), outside (ball 3), up at the neck (ball 4).

        So as far as I saw, there was only one pitch that was called a ball for being high but over the plate, and it was the last one, and it was almost over Holiday’s head.

        I’m not trying to pick on what you said, I just think you can’t make excuses for a performance like last night, especially when there is a glaring problem that needs to be fixed.

      • WVRedlegs

        No problem. You aren’t picking on me. I wasn’t trying to offer up excuses for Cingrani, though. Nor for Ohlendorf. That was brutal. They took brutal to a new level.
        But you did leave off three AB’s before Pham in the inning. There was a man on 2B with 2 outs when Pham came up I believe. I think a couple of those high pitches might be found in those AB’s.
        Like LW said, the umpire wasn’t calling anything up as a strike on both teams. That is on Cingrani to make that adjustment. He didn’t.
        I also get thrown off a little by the CF TV angle. FSO doesn’t show the side angle on the batter very often. And FSO doesn’t show their pitch box after every pitch either. Many times I’ve said a certain pitch looked like a strike, only to have the FSO box show it just missed.
        Nonetheless, we can certainly agree that Cingrani and Ohlendorf were very bad last night. Very, very bad.

  37. WVRedlegs

    There isn’t enough beer in St. Louis to put out all the flames from the Reds bullpen’s crash and burn last night.
    Seismologists in central Missouri registered a 3.2 on the Richter Scale at about the same time the Reds bullpen crashed back to earth like a meteor. A Tunguska-like event with the Reds bullpen.

      • NorMich Red

        Love seeing a meaningful geoscience reference on RN Website as someone who tries to make a living in that realm!

      • ohiojimw

        Is that magnitude of tremblor (now adjusted to 2.8 I believe) unusual in that area nowadays?

      • NorMich Red

        To OhJimW, who has great insight on the games and the state of the franchise…the New Madrid Fault has been quiet for dangerously too long after creating what would have been absolutely devastating level quakes through the early 1800’s. Potentially a ticking time bomb and no one knows the details of the clock. A recurrence would put Memphis in huge jeopardy for cataclysmic damage and probably would deliver significant damage in St. Louis. A New Madrid quake in the early 1800’s centered not far from Memphis was felt at the White House. (Yes, TMI for a Reds’ website, but the other side of my life got tweaked here and that’s a dangerous thing for me!) Last time, few multistory buildings–the time frame of the day saved it from being disastrous.

  38. TR

    Has Ohlendorf been released yet to join the ranks of Marquis and Gregg? And, front office, please let Bryan Price’s contract expire on Oct. 2nd.

  39. DHud

    I fell asleep at some point during the game last night and literally let out an audible laugh when I checked the recap this morning

    • ohiojimw

      I quit watching pitch by pitch when Jumbo was being pulled for Wood; but I left the backroom sports TV on while loosely following the game via Twitter while I read other stuff on the computer. At a little after 11(eastern), Mrs OJW had quit watching TV in the living room; so, I switched over to the game expecting (make that hoping) to see a happy post game show. Instead, Cingrani had finished up with the digging of the pit; Olendorf was being summonsed . I switched that TV off and headed for the backroom so I could scream if I felt the need. I got there in time to watch Moss get walked. I turned the TV off and returned to the computer. I wasn’t going to check what happened since I figured it had to be bad. However, I couldn’t resist the urge to click on the Twitter tab……. My first thought? wow, that didn’t take long; and HBP!?!!

  40. james garrett

    I have always had a problem with the closer rules or roles for guys in the pen but it seems all teams do it and pitchers like to know when they will be used.Bottom line Price went to long with Cingrani or not long enough which ever closer rule applies.Second thing is he brought the wrong guy in or he brought him in two batters to late again choose which role applies.The reality of it is if Ohly was the guy once Tony was pulled then we have a problem Houston.He has proven time and time again not to be able to handle these high leverage situation not only with us but with all his other teams.To expect anything else is totally insane.Granted as said above does it mean anything regarding wins or losses?Of course it doesn’t.It just riles up fans like us who see a win be given away by Price just being clueless.

  41. IndyRedMan

    No reason not to DFA Ohlensuck! No reason whatsoever!! Tim Adelman is back. Sampson has some talent and needs to be used more. If they don’t see Lamb as the LOOGY then call up some kid and give him a shot.

    Its always the same thing during the Jocketty era! Its either the front office making mostly stupid moves, playing 1-2 guys short, etc. or the manager being a stubborn idiot! Leaving Trea Turner in the minors for 4 months will probably cost the Nats the #1 overall record in the NL and homefield. That’s Dusty though! It doesn’t have to be like that! What did the Cubs do with this Contreras kid at catcher. They already had a great record with 2 old-timers in Montero and Ross! Maddon wanted a hot bat and that was that!! There is no rational explanation for letting a 34 yr old blow game after game in a rebuild year when you have younger (obv more talented) guys that would love to showcase their abilities in meaningful situations!

    Bottom line they’re neither winning or adding information towards a rebuild! As usual!!

  42. WVRedlegs

    The STL Cardinals have called up there #1 pitching prospect today, Alex Reyes. They didn’t say if he would pitch tonight or tomorrow against the Reds or not. I would imagine if it is not tonight it will be tomorrow.

    • WVRedlegs

      Wacha to the DL so it looks like he won’t start vs. the Reds in the next 2 games.

    • WVRedlegs

      Definitely worth a look. Phenomenal minor league numbers up until this year, but only throws a fastball that averages 86. He must have some pinpoint location. Maybe he lost some of that this year.
      As for Super 2 holdbacks, what about Senzel in 2018? We might not see him until mid-June that year.

      • WVRedlegs

        Instead of ” but only throws a fastball that averages 86″, that should say “but throws a fastball that only averages 86.” That misplaced “only” could be mis-interpreted as he “only” throws a fastball. Sorry.

    • IndyRedMan

      Poor Bob Steve isn’t going anywhere!

  43. Playtowin

    Price is not the problem. Some of the players are not very good. Cingrani is a one pitch head case. He will last as a situational lefty if he learns to throw strikes. Olendorf should not pitch in a close game after the 6th inning. Sampson should get more of a chance. Schebler looks like a triple A player. He has a chance to take hold of an outfield spot and is coming up short. Players need to take advantage of an opportunity when they get it.

  44. WVRedlegs

    I hope Cody Reed has turned the corner. He has had a rough stretch. But he got thrown to the wolves pretty quickly.
    Reed has 9 games started. That is 2 vs. StL, 2 vs. ChiC, and one each vs. SF, Mia, Hou, SD, and Atl. That is 7 starts vs. playoff contending teams.
    He had to become a major leaguer in a hurry.

  45. jaY jOHNSON

    Tired of reading that the manager doesnt lose the game.He mismanaged the last Pittsburgh game and it came back to bite him against the cards.Another 1 run loss that I feel was on Price

    • Chuck Schick

      I was always impressed that Joe Torre was smart enough to insert Mariano Rivera into the game. I guess Price should be smart enough to do the same. It’s odd that the ” smart” managers seem to have good options and bad managers have Jumbo Hoover

    • jaY jOHNSON

      Just imagine having either Iggy or Lorenzen available instead of Dorf.
      Had he not used used them both in the 7-3 win against the Bucs.

      • Chuck Schick

        So Dorf would’ve pitched during that 7-3 game and there’s no way he could’ve possibly blown a 4 run lead.

        Maybe Price made a mistake. Maybe they felt Iggy and Lorenzen needed to throw that day to stay in rhythm. Maybe he was concerned that Dorf would blow a 4 run lead. Maybe Iggy and Lorenzen were his only options that day.

        Sparkey Anderson should’ve walked Bernie Carbo. Tony LaRussa should’ve walked Kurt Gibson. Bobby Cox should’ve walked Kirby Puckett. What a bunch of fools!!!!

        Sometimes things work out and sometimes they don’t.

      • lwblogger2

        in all fairness, did anyone think that a one-legged Gibson was going to hit one out? 😉