Final R H E
Chicago Cubs (12-4) 16 18 0
Cincinnati Reds (8-8) 0 0 1
W: Arrieta (4-0) L: Finnegan (1-1)
FanGraphs Win Probability | Box Score

The Good
–1908.

–The Reds are still a .500 team.

The Bad
–The Reds lost 16-0. And they got no-hit by Cubs hurler Jake Arrieta. That bad enough for ya’?

–In 2016: Cubs 38, Reds 6.

Not-So-Random Thoughts
–I’ve watched lots and lots and lots of Reds games in my lifetime. I really don’t think I’ve ever seen a more pathetic display than that one. Just awful. Only one thing I can add; this was the very definition of a Milton game:

Milton was unhappy with Cincinnati's performance tonight.

Milton was unhappy with Cincinnati’s performance tonight.

Blame Chad for creating this mess.

Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, “The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds” is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad’s musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine.

You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Join the conversation! 93 Comments

  1. And that’s a wrap for tonight. Nothing to see here, moving along….

  2. I normally stop watching after 8-0, but I kinda was rooting for the no hitter. Why not? There is no point in expecting this team to be competitive so no real worries if they go down in a blaze of glory.

  3. It is disgusting to think the Cubs could really be this good; but the Reds have hung in with everybody else but can’t begin to hang with the Cubbies except for the 8th inning debacle in Shycago last week

  4. Never mind the no-hitter– the guy is the reigning CYA winner and he threw one– against the LAD’s no less– like, yesterday. It’s the 16 runs that kill me. How bad can pitching get. In a season there are nearly as many (i.e. as few) 16 run games as there are 0 hit games.
    Just 146 games ’till this is over.

    • It happens when your starter has an off night, not sure why you do not let him go at least 5 when he is at 74 pitches and then you come back with 2 career minor league who have no business as major league pichers. It is hard to that bent out of shape with Wood’s outing, gets first 2 outs and just wants to get through it- better then than in a close game.
      Sometimes losses like this refocusses a team as the other team kind of has a let down- a series split would be a nice rebound

    • Terrible game. The Reds are still at .500. If they had won, we’d be overflowing with sweetness and light. We are a mercurial bunch.

  5. Price should absolutely be fired after this game. He didn’t even get ejected or do anything to try to break the tempo? Hit a cub batter, throw a tantrum over the strike zone? claim tar on a Cubs bat?
    Zero game effort by the Reds.

    • You seriously advocate hitting someone on the other team just because they’re beating you? That’s a terrible way to play the game of baseball. If you don’t like the other team running up the score, do something about it. Like, you know, STOP THEM FROM SCORING. Or maybe, SCORE SOME RUNS YOURSELF.

      I’m no fan of Price, but there was absolutely nothing he could’ve done about what happened tonight.

      • absolutely. It is a part of the game.

      • They ran up the score on us. Unsportsmanlike. Time for payback. But of course there is the modern thought of just you know ho hum no worries we are all millionaires here having a good ole time with no regard for hustle or any other competitiveness that doesn’t show up in a metric.

        • Dan. If the Reds’ pitchers can’t get them out, that’s on them, not on the Cubs. If the Reds won 16-0 and Finnegan threw a no-hitter, I doubt any of us would be complaining about how the Reds “ran up the score”. This was also, at least in hindsight, the perfect time to go ahead and let minor league level pitchers (Melville and Hayes) go ahead and get their brains beat since Cincinnati wasn’t going to do anything with Arrieta anyway. I just can’t even imagine how this game would lead to the belief that Price should be fired for some failure on his part last night. There might be other reasons for people to think so but this game isn’t one of them.

        • You act as if they were doing double steals up 12-0…..or bunting when they were ahead 15-0. They kept hitting lasers….were the Cubs suppose to just stike out? It isn’t unsportsmanlike like to hit home runs.
          Virtually every thing you wanted the Reds to do “died with disco.” Some nights are just a mushroom cloud.

        • The Cubs were being unsportsmanlike? Are you serious? They were going up to bat with the intention of, you know, GETTING A HIT. What else were they supposed to do, strike out on purpose?

          I suppose you think we’re still in tee ball. Do you think all the players on each team should have gotten to run the bases whether they got out or not? And after the game, all the players could get a trophy and go out for ice cream?

          Yeesh. This may be just a game, but it’s being played by grown men. Stop acting like the parent of a 9-year-old who’s upset his kid’s team has just been mercy-ruled. If you as a player don’t like what the scoreboard says, stop whining and do something about it.

        • Every team has gotten lit up like that at one point or another. You go back, shake your head, maybe throw up in a garbage can, tell yourself it’s just one game out of a long season, and go try to win the next one.

          My traveling team in the USAF got killed 13-0 and got 2 or 3 hits and then went out the next day and won 9-1 against the same team. It’s baseball and weird things happen.

    • Lighten up, Francis. Enos Slaughter died a long time ago

      • Just saying. The coach did nothing to break the rhythm. That is part of being the head coach instead of laying down and taking it.

      • Dan, The Reds do not have a head coach. Don’t complain if you do not even know the basic terms in baseball, please.

    • An inside source tells me that Price didn’t even sacrifice a live chicken before the game. No wonder this happened. Just total incompetence.

    • I bet Lou Pinella gives Price an ear full after that.

      • I’d bet that Lou turned the game off by the 4th or 5th inning.

      • I’m sure Lou Pinella fell asleep after Judge Judy. He has a “ceremonial” role that allows him to ride in Bob C’s golf cart during spring training…that’s it.

  6. I’ve seen both the no-hitters thrown in GABP in person.

    The Reds looked lifeless tonight. They looked every one of those runs worse than the Cubs. Another terrible bullpen night getting lost in the no-hitter buzz.

    • Congrats Steve! I’m sure it wasn’t quite as exciting as seeing your favorite pitcher (Homer) throw one but in any case pretty cool!
      I have to tell you though after the bottom of the 2’nd I was praying for some PURPLE RAIN!

    • I’ve never seen a no-hitter in person. Awesome that you’ve seen two. Too bad it wasn’t a Reds’ pitcher but hey, seeing a no-hitter is pretty cool.

      • To clarify, I’ve never seen a professional no-hitter in person (MiLB or MLB). I’ve seen or participated in one way or another in probably close to a 10. I’ve caught 3.

  7. I appreciate the one E the Reds put up on the box score. Somehow, 0-0-1, looks better than 0-0-0, if someone looking doesn’t know anything about baseball.

    • Yeah, isn’t 0-0-0 what you call a perfect game? Which would be worse, rite?

      • No, the Reds drew 4 walks that don’t show up up there. 0-0-0 looks rough though.

  8. Mike Maffie texted me that this game was part of Reds strategy to tire the Cubs out for the rest of the series by having them run around the bases so many times.

  9. If only they had Todd Frazier.

  10. The ONLY positive is that it only counts as one loss.

  11. Could have been worse… could have been raining.

    • Actually I was hoping for an all night deluge to start during the top of the 5th to see what the umps would do. From a Reds point of view that would have been the most exciting thing that could have happened.

  12. I wonder…if we lose 98 or more gms this year, will we start another rebuild? 🎵🎶Things that make you go, hmmm🎶🎵 But nothing says rebuild like a good old fashioned being no-hit! Thanks Jocketty! 😡

    • Getting no-hit by a pitcher who is, arguably, the best in the business right now doesn’t call for a rebuild. Also, most of the moving parts of the rebuild aren’t playing for the Reds yet. The team is still doing better than most of us expected–early days, I know, and likely to change. In the end, though, it’s one game.

    • Losing 98 games is often indicative of the rebuild process in progress. If you’re suggesting they haven’t fully committed to a rebuild, certainly there’s still shopping Bruce and Cozart or whatever else they want to do.

  13. I see where Keyvius Sampson cleared waivers and has been outrighted to Louisville. Anybody could have claimed him and then optioned him; but apparently there wasn’t a single other team that thought he was worth a 40 man roster spot and whatever the minor league salary amount is on his split contract (likely the ~$80K minimum for 40 man guys on option).

    • I think that – not worthy of being on any other team’s 40-man roster – would be the case for several, maybe a majority, of the pitchers who were in the Reds bullpen on Opening Day.

      • It finally occurred to me why the Reds most likely optioned Sampson before they DFA/ waived/ outrighted him. Since he was on the 25 man roster, if they had directly DFAed him they likely would have been on the hook for his MLB pay rate ($500K+). By optioning him first I believe they saved the difference between that and the minor league split salary for 40 man guys which is what they will owe him now across the rest of the season. Not sure if the same holds true for fringes.

  14. Worst Reds loss of all-time? In terms of pure domination? Gotta be in the running.

    • It’s one of the worst losses in major league history. The first time a team has been no hit and given up that many runs since the 19th century.

  15. I was really hoping Maddon would empty the bench, but of course with the no-hitter to protect, he couldn’t necessarily do that either. Leave it to the Reds to set the bar even lower when I thought expectations were pretty low to begin with.

  16. Lose by 16, lose by 1, it really doesn’t matter. Still counts for a single L in the loss column.

    Move on to the next game…

    • Yes. On the one hand one of the worst losses in major league history, on the other hand still just one game. And a rout in baseball doesn’t mean as much as a rout in other sports, the players don’t even have time to think about it.

  17. Only a whack job would look at last night and say…. “we could be those guys in 3 years.”
    I am kind of a whack job.

  18. I am embarrassed for our team. Disgusting effort.
    Who is Milton by the way??

    • Google some of the following phrases: Eric Milton, fly ball pitcher, homerun park, terrible decisions, worst signings of 2005

    • Years ago, we started posting that picture of the goat with braces here at RN after particularly awful games, in order to give us something to smile about.

      The readers decided collectively that the goat’s name should be Milton.

  19. Some nights you just get your brains beat in, Happens in every sport. The cloud mushrooms… nothing goes right.
    Now that is not to say that things have to stay that way. The bullpen is disgusting but I have to feel that this will change within the month without going outside the organization.
    We have three guys getting back shortly who are factors. Maybe Lamb gets sent to Louisville to stretch out…but Melville and Hayes will be nagging memories for us soon.
    When Lorenzen comes back… probably 4 to 6 weeks…. that adds someone else.
    We have a rebuilding team that lost five pitchers. This is going to get better.

  20. Well, I suppose if you’re going to get no-hit, the night your pitching gives up 16 runs would be the night.

  21. Whew doggies. That was a beatdown of epic proportions. As stated above, it is only one game. As long as an extended losing streak doesn’t set in. Last year there were what, 3 losing streaks of 10 games or more, and including that great season’s ending, losing 15 of the last 16 games. It is alright to get these ugly games out of the way early until the calvary arrives. If this were to happen in July or August, then I think the Reds problems are much larger than perceived.
    What is exposed is a Reds offense that is as schizophrenic as the bullpen. Don’t ever know which personality will show up from day to day in both units. Last night it was the mild, meek, no-heart offense that showed up.
    Some more turnover is needed with this team. No doubt about that. More infusion of youth needed for this offense. More is needed than just Winker and Peraza, but that will be a start.

    • I don’t know if we can call this a schizophrenic offense. The offense has been pretty consistent from a run scoring standpoint.

      0-2 runs – 5 games (1 shutout)
      3-5 runs – 7 games
      6+ runs – 4 games

  22. Well. Terrible hitting. Terrible pitching. One of the baserunners even got picked off. I’m kind of disappointed that they only committed one error. Would have been funnier if in addition to getting no hit and not being able to get anybody out, they were booting balls and throwing the ball all over the place.

    That’s the great thing about baseball. Even after playing one of the objectively worst games in MLB history, they play another game tonight and have a good chance to win.

  23. Is it true Stephenson only has like 7-8 more day in the minors to add the extra year of team control. It’d be nice to at least watch him pitch this year.

    • I am looking forward to seeing him again but it has been made clear to me that keeping him from super 2 status in a rebuilding year is probably optimum. could save 10 million plus over the course of a couple of years. think that pushes us to june 1 or so.

      • Obviously the biggest issue is keeping him from accumulating enough service time to count as a full year. That issue should be taken care of in another couple weeks.

        The Super Two issue doesn’t have anything to do with player control, just with money (as you said). I assume that saving a few million dollars over the course of 3-4 seasons will be helpful if the club then invests those funds into other areas of the team.

        Besides, once everyone is healthy, we should have a rotation of Bailey, Iglesias, Finnegan, Disco, and one of Lamb/Moscot/Simon. I’m ok with that right now.

  24. Some mild good news after last night. Keith Law at ESPN writes that the Phillies probably won’t take high school LH pitcher Jason Groome as the first overall draft pick in June. He says the Phils are more smitten on college arms at this time. That is very good news for the Reds. Groome is temporarily suspended because of a transfer rule in New Jersey. His comparisons are to a young Clayton Kershaw. The Reds need a bat, but if the Phils pass on Groome, the Reds should scoop him up in a hurry at #2.

    • agreed. and since walt won’t be along in his career development, maybe a LH pitcher with a lightning arm will allowed to be a starter for the Reds

    • I had been pretty happy thinking the Reds would grab Nick Senzel, given the relative lack of hitting talent in the Reds’s system.

      But Groome appears to be one of those players you will kick yourself for passing on years down the road. If he falls into the Reds’s lap, I don’t see how they can pass on him.

  25. Hindsight is always (at least) 20/20 but the the one thing Price might have done to benefit the Reds across the entire series was to have essentially conceded last night by starting Melville and pushed the rest of his rotation back a day to get Finnegan in the same starter match up he had in Chicago.

    In the process he would have pushed back the need for Simon all the way to Tuesday since they still would have Iggy to open the road trip on Monday. But then I think the Reds already know R.Stephenson is starting on Sunday and are just dancing the dance to get there.

    • I think it was a great decision by Price running Melville and Hayes out there to get blasted for three innings. Reds were already down 5 against a locked in Cy Young winner. It gave his marginally better bullpen guys a night off and saves them for the rest of the series.

    • Having Finnegan pitch on a night when the Reds aren’t facing the reigning Cy Young winner sounds good on paper. But, Finnegan wasn’t exactly mowing the Cubs down himself last night (4 IP, 5 ER). So it probably didn’t hurt anyway.

      Now, if Finnegan had lost a 1-0 pitching duel last night, I may have felt differently…

      • Someone may have made this point already, I haven’t read through all the comments yet. But one encouraging thing last night was that Finnegan was really rushing it up there. He was consistently throwing 94 and got up to 96. Silver linings …

    • I don’t think they can recall Stephenson that quickly, unless there is some exception to the rule. I think he has to be in AAA 10 days before they can recall him again.

      • If Simon can’t start, the Reds place him on the 15-day DL, retro back to 4/16/16. Stephenson can be recalled for an injury replacement without being subject to the 10-day wait period before being recalled.

      • If they DL Simon (or anybody) they can recall him as an emergency replacement

  26. I think it was 5-0 and Arrieta hit a ball up the middle and BP just sort of reached for it but didn’t leave his feet and barely made any effort? That was the play they kicked it around and Ross scored. Suarez got picked off (again) as well. I expected them to lose a lot of games this year but some of the key guys mentally checked out last night and that’s not acceptable! Lets see if they show some pride tonite because Lester/Moscot is obv a massive mismatch on paper as well.

    • I gave up on watching the play by play just before the play you mentioned. One of the last things I recall the commentators saying was that Arrieta had already run the count to 3 balls on 7 batters. This was what, the 4th inning? Yet he gets to the 9th on less than 100 pitches? Makes one question the effort of the Reds batters in the second half of the game.

      • You’re right. Marty and Brantley were observing that Arrieta didn’t even have his best stuff in the early innings, and yet it turned into a no-no. This observation was further confirmed by an interview I heard just this morning with David Ross on a Chicago radio station… he flat out said he didn’t have his good stuff for awhile but was able to dial it in later. Bad execution by the Reds. Oh well. On to the next.

        • I wasn’t sure who I heard say that because I tend to watch the TV with the volume down but close caption on plus sometimes I’m listening along to the radio via ear buds

  27. Also, let’s just admit that the Reds were too sad about the passing of Prince to play. They tried, but I imagine they were just too busy thinking about the sound of doves crying. Now they know.

  28. Finnegan got crushed last night. That’s the problem with a young startuing rotation. Such games are going to happen while the starting pitchers gain the experience needed top be successful at the major league level. I chalk this game up as a learning experience for Finnegan. He’s still just 23 years old and pitched just his 28th professional start and 8th major league start. I like Finnegan’s chances of succeeding as a major league starter. It would actually be nice to have Finnegan pitching at AAA with Reed and Stephenson, but the Reds have to have 5 starters on the majoe league roster. He entered this season with 0.107 years of accumulated service time, so the Reds have 6 seasons of team control, through the 2021 season.

  29. Melville and Hayes proved yet again that they have no business on a major league roster. It really doesn’t matter, except I fear the Reds management actually believes (or hopefully believed) they do. Even the best relievers in the current Reds bullpen are no better than marginal, but most of the relievers simply fall within the same category of having no business on a major league roster.

  30. After the total beatdown from last night, there was actually some good news from the Reds organization.

    AAA Louisville Bats:
    Bailey pitched 3.2 innings, 67 pitches. He should be on track for 5-6 innings and 80-85 pitches in his next rehab start.
    Peraza went 1-5 with 1-BB and is now slashing .314/.352/.373.
    Winker went 2-6 and is now slashing .348/.426/.370. Winker is still getting his feet wet against AAA pitching and appears to be taking an early, slow-as-she goes approach. His ISO for his minor league career is .174 and his 2015 (AA) and 2014 (A+) ISO was .151 & .231 respectively. Winker’s power will come and he will be a corner OF for the Reds in 2017. The Reds can look forward to Winker and Votto in the #2 & #4 holes (in no particular order) for several years, with Peraza leading off Suarez in the #3 hole. My goodnes, that could be a formidible top half of the lineup.

    AA Pensacola Blue Wahoos:
    Rookie Davis pitched 7.0 innings, 84 pitches, w/ 4-H, 0-BB & 5-SO…nice game! In his 1st 3 starts at AA this season, Davis has pitched 18.0 innings w/ 0.89 WHIP, 1.00 ERA, 3-BB & 13-SO. Not bad for the 22-year-old starter. He could be in line for a promotion to AAA later this season if he keeps up his early performance.

    A+ Daytona Tortugas:
    Tejay Antone pitched 6.0 innings, 85 pitches, w/ 2-BB & 5-SO. In his 1st 3 starts playing A+ ball, the 22-year-old Antone has pitched 16.0 innings w/ 1.82 WHIP, 1.69 ERA, 7-BB & 14 SO. Antone has to tame his control but is off to a solid early season.

    • Thanks. I’m pretty high on Rookie Davis. He pitched as well as Amir Garrett in the same league last year. Question is if he can put a second good year together. Promising answer to that so far.

      • I think Amir Garrett and Rookie Davis should be in AAA by mid-season. It does not profit the Reds to let them languish in a league they are dominating.
        I would also like Stephenson up to STAY with the Reds sometime in June. He has proven that he does have Major League stuff, and can pitch up here. Get him up here and get him pitching.

      • The (LAST PLACE) Yankees will eventually regret giving Davis up for 5/6 of a year of Chapman. They have problems that Chapman isn’t the remedy for, unless they sign him long-term and move him into their rotation. Davis could leapfrog over Garrett, not necessarily on the prospects list, but on date of arrival to the Big Leagues. These two along with Travieso make for a nice third wave on arrivals.

    • Peraza needs to work on his walk-rate. He appears to have a *much* better hit skill than Billy Hamilton, but hitting .270-.280 with few walks and no power is a pretty hollow skill. Doubt he can develop home run power, but maybe gap power. Walks are going to be the key to whether he is above average in run creation.

      • I’ve been a big skeptic of Peraza every since the trade that brought him to Cincinnati. I absolutely agree that he needs additional power (doubles and triples) or better plate discipline to be effective at the majoe league level. His youth (age 22 season) works in his favor along with playing SS at AAA. Last season was his 1st trip through AAA at age 21 and he certainly struggled. This season, in his repeat of AAA, his slash line is pretty much a mirror of his career line (sans last season). In just 57 PA this season, his walk rate has significantly improved up to 5.3%, but as Patrick pointed out, those 57 PA represent only half or the stabilzation point for walk% and it still needs to improve to at least near league average for his hit tool to be effective (unless he developes that gap power).

        • Glad you mentioned the age. Even “holding your own” at AAA at 21 is a feather in the cap.

          I don’t think he’ll ever have a decent walk rate from the little I’ve seen of him, but even an 85-90 wRC+ hitter playing plus defense at 2B or SS with plus speed is a 2.5 to 3 WAR player. Teams need those kinds of guys to compete, as well.

  31. You could make a good case that last night’s game was the biggest mismatch in the history of MLB.

    Since the Cubs broke up Finnegan’s no-no a couple of weeks ago, the Cubs have outscored the Reds 38-3. It’s like watching Connecticut’s women’s team against Moeller..

    I thought that Hamilton may have had a shot at the bullet liner over Schebbler’s head on the first pitch of the game. If so, the score would have only been 15-0.

    The Cubs were waiting for Finnegan, who throws high fastballs early in the count. They were ready for him, and other teams will be, too. As Chris Welsh (or the Cowboy, as I forgot who was doing the game) pointed out, Finnegan was making the same mistake that almost every young pitcher makes, which is to try to throw harder when in trouble, instead of subtracting.

    Votto needs to lead them out of the funk.

  32. Was looking at some Votto stuff… he’s 7th in the NL in hard hit percentage (44.7%) which is also the highest mark of his career (if he’d continue it). What does he get for this solid striking of the ball? A .205 BABIP, which is ONE HUNDRED FIFTY points below his career average.

    I’m glad Votto hasn’t gotten too discouraged. He seems to be hitting the ball well, it’s just not going where it needs to go.

    • He hit it hard (in the infield) several times last night. Robbed of two hits by nice defensive plays.

  33. Anybody catch the headline the Reds put out on Twitter…..utterly pathetic.

    “Reds draw four walks vs. Cubs”

Comments are closed.

About Chad Dotson

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Category

2016 Reds, Milton, Titanic Struggle Recap