Hi, Reds fans. That game was long. Really long. And the Reds were going to win and then they didn’t and even though I’ve officially stopped caring about wins and losses it was the freaking Cardinals and who wants to lose to the freaking Cardinals like that? Not me. No, sir. Not me.

So, the offense just kind of didn’t get it done, but the pitching was solid except for when Holmberg lost it.

Certainly, we have to say something about the work turned in by Chapman and Diaz, who together pitched 3 innings and struck out 8 with only 2 walks.

I’m a little tempted to drop a Milton here, but the Cardinals are actually good and stuff, so really, losing to them in 13 innings bears no shame. It’s just crappy.

Better luck tomorrow, kids.

Nighty-night.

Cardinals 4 Reds 3  |  Box Score  | Win Probability Graphs

50 Responses

  1. Wallyum

    Maybe Todd and Billy should switch bats.

    • lwblogger2

      I was at the game last night and felt horrible for both of them. I thought maybe the little bleeder that Frazier hit might ‘get him going’. Sometimes all it takes is a little luck and you feel the baseball gods are back on your side again.

      • Redsfan48

        All Frazier needs is a HR or 2 to get his confidence back I think, he will be fine in the end. As for Billy, he definitely still needs some work.

      • vegastypo

        All Frazier needs is to quit swinging at everything that leaves the pitcher’s hand. Was it last night that he was swinging at garbage, then took a pitch right down the middle for strike three?

  2. pinson343

    “And the Reds were going to win and then they didn’t and even though I’ve officially stopped caring about wins and losses it was the freaking Cardinals and who wants to lose to the freaking Cardinals like that? Not me. No, sir. Not me.”

    Very well put, Jason, captures just how I feel. I wasn’t even going to watch this one, given the pitching matchup, but got sucked in after I saw the 3-0 lead.

    • lwblogger2

      Watching Martinez was a treat. The 3-0 lead against him was nice.

  3. pinson343

    On the season, Hoover’s easily been the Reds 2nd best reliever. But lately (last 7 appearances) he’s been getting torched by strong LHed hitters, as he keeps missing inside and usually belt high. Before Carpenter’s HR tonite, there were the two game losing HRs, a double by Carpenter in St. Louis, last night’s drive by Heyward that Hamilton tracked down, all of them rockets.

    Hoover vs. Carpenter was a scary matchup, given Hoover’s recent problems with lefties and Carpenter’s hot streak. It may seem like a silly question, but does there have to be one and only one 8th inning save situation guy ?

    I won’t even get into the closer’s role.

    • Tom Gray

      You can’t argue with results. Price’s RP strategy got the Reds 76-86 last year and 48-57 (so far) this year.

      Tongue in cheek, obviously. Price has no clue how to be MLB (or any other kind of) manager.

      • Vicferrari

        Question I indirectly asked below. What would you have done differently Wednesday? And then my follow up, why not do the same decision Tuesday night?

      • Tom Gray

        STL didn’t seem to mind pitching their two sub 2.00 ERA relievers more than 1 inning tonight.

        If Parra is your LOOGY why use him in the 5th inning?

        Hoover always pitches the 8th. Chapman always pitches the 9th. Try something different.

        Specifically, NEVER put Axelrod into a 13 inning game.

      • Vicferrari

        Keep in my mind I am not advocating Price should continue as manager but he is limited and it seems unrealistic to expect your bullpen to get 8 shutout innings. I think it is a product of poorer quality players and just overall guys that do not have it. I feel it Would not matter what Price did, but I am not sure I get your arguments?
        Are you saying Parra was a bad choice in the 6th? or are you saying he should have went 2 innings instead 1.1?
        Are you saying do not pitch Hoover then Chapman just for the sake of mixing it up? To me I have seen lots of guys blow the 8th and Hoover probably gives them the best chance despite the recent failures.
        Are you saying Villareal would have been the better choice than Axelrod- which might be a good argument but I just find saying not doing what did not work as petty, especially if there is no sound alternatives.

      • Tom Gray

        Axelrod should not have been in 13 inning game except as pinch runner. Villarreal surely a better choice to P. Even Schumaker has better career ERA (I think).

        If Parra is your only LHP in bullpen, save him for situation where LHP is needed.

        Bring Chapman in the 8th to face the LH batter(s) then P the 9th.

      • Evan armstrong

        So its the manager’s fault that the players don’t perform thier jobs?

      • Tom Gray

        The manager assigns the right player(s) to do the job. Axelrod has 19+ ERA. What are the chances he would do the job needed in the 13th inning against team with best W-L record in MLB?

      • Evan armstrong

        I am speaking of all the players, what ddid Votto and Frazier contribute last night? It’s players job to perform and last night the Reds players didn’t, not on Price.

      • Michael

        No one was asking the bullpen to give us 8 shut out innings. If they would have done their job, it would have only been 4 shut out innings for the win. It is not too much to ask a 7 or 8 man bullpen to give you 4 shut out innings. The offense stopped producing, but the bullpen is to blame for this loss.

    • Vicferrari

      Sounds like a great place for Cingrani is he done for the year?, have not heard much since he got rocked up in AAA start after disaster against Cubs

      • pinson343

        It’s been a shame about Cingrani, can’t stay healthy.

      • lost11found

        At least its not the throwing shoulder this time… how’d he hurt it? any one know?

  4. Vicferrari

    Cards are just opportunistic and play well together. Had 4 hits off Reds BP in 8 innings and 3 resulted in runs. I complained a lot of bullpen management during the games but I doubt much would have mattered. Some might argue pitch Chapman in the 8th, but why not last night in similar situation? Not sure why Badenhop and his sub 2.00 ERA since April did not go out for a 2nd inning, plus saw no reason to burn Matheus for 2 outs.
    Just a shame Holmberg pitches 1 hit shutout through 5 on 70 pitches and then gives away free passes, while Martinez was allowing all sorts of base runners in his 5.

    • pinson343

      I also wanted Parra to close out the 7th and wanted to see Badenhop pitch another inning. It all led to the too early arrival of Axelrod. But in the end, when were the Red going to score ? They had 2 innings to score off Seth Maness.

      After Frazier’s one pitch GIDP in between two 4 pitch walks, I felt like it was over.

      • Vicferrari

        That is probably the things I would have done differently, I commented during the game it did not make sense to bring Matheus in the 7th to face one righty then Wong. Could have used Badenhop in the 13th then followed up with Mathues for 14th and 15th. I figured that gives them a better chance to win than with either AAAA pitcher remaining, but Cards just win in the 16th most likely.
        Maybe all his bullpen guys are available tomorrow when Lorenzen leaves with 1-0 after 5 innings.

      • Tom Gray

        The STL P is going for 13th W. Lorenzen has 8+ ERA in his last 4 starts.

        So they Reds SHOULD win anyway.

    • pinson343

      Three of the Cards 4 hits went a long ways, literally and figuratively.

    • VaRedsFan

      Vic…Bhop’s ERA looks good, but he routinely allows inherited runners to score making it a little deceiving. 24 inherited runners, 11 have scored 46%.. Not good

      • Tom Gray

        Regardless he is pitching MUCH better since May 1 than he was in April.

        Lately, he is good 4th or 5th guy in bullpen after Chapman, Hoover, and Diaz (maybe Mattheus).

  5. pinson343

    After the game was tied in the 8th, the outcome was so predictable, it seemed preordained.

  6. Jeff Morris

    Not sure what the heck is going on with Frazier??

      • VaRedsFan

        He’s had 2 since the AS game, not counting the days when the whole team didn’t play.

  7. Coldheartedfacts

    Unfortunately last year Frazier also hit horrible after the all star break. Last year thanks to Votto’s injured absence, Bruce’s injury related performance, and the extreme decline of Billy Hamilton’s and Todd Frazier’s hitting, the Reds cratered in the second half.

    Frazier appears to chase bad pitches more often and shows less patience at the plate. Perhaps the all star game was the worst thing that could have happened for the rest of his 2015 season.

  8. Steve Checkosky

    The Recaps are getting skimpier. Comments provide much more information.

  9. Reaganspad@comcast.net

    I would have left Parra in longer. I think he shattered 2 bats and was a constant 94

    As far as Carpebter is concerned, I would not have pitched to him if I am Hoover or if a manger is trying to win, I would have brought Chapman in to face him and take the series right there.

    Chapman won’t pitch today because it is the third day in a row

    • VaRedsFan

      Agree about Parra…Only had a righty (Piscotty) then another lefty. (Wong i think).
      I’d rather have the Parra/Wong matchup.

      Chappy can do 3 days in row, but usually not 4. So he’s good to go today. not that they’ll need him because they face Wacha today.

    • Big56dog

      Chapman has thrown 27 pitches in the last 5 days- he is available. He probably through more warming up for an extra inning game in Chicago that he never got in than he did the previous 2 nights

  10. IndyRedMan

    Same old…same old:( I’m not sure how you can blame this one on Price exactly? I just fast-forwarded thru most of it but I saw multiple Reds hacking away on 2-0 pitches against Martinez when he was all over the place to begin with….he walked Holmberg after all? Nothing new there with our obp hating offense! BP was hacking on 3-0 the other day nobody in scoring position. I think I could get Frazier and Hamilton out right now. Why not give them a few days off? DeJesus has been playing pretty well and Duvall has 2 HRs at Lville already? We need to quit challenging the hot hitters too….when we don’t need to. Hoover to Carpenter last night….Lorenzen to McCutcheon the other day too? Oh well….not like it matters at this point

  11. tgarretson82

    I’ve always thought there was so much contrast over the last couple years with the Cards managers use of Rosenthal’s use of over 1 inning appearances very very willingly to win games vs the Reds managers use of Chapman.

    • pinson343

      Also Metheny used Rosenthal for more than an inning in an extra inning game on the road. Managers like Price don’t use their closer on the road until their team is ahead. More and more managers are departing from that stupid practice.

  12. jamesgarret

    We only had 7 hits for the game and 4 guys had those.Only 1 hit after the fifth inning.We were lucky it went as long as it did.Hoover missed location by a mile and Carpenter hit 95 out of the park.Axelrod left an 80mph pitch up in the zone and we know the result.Games happen like this but we had this game for the taking and let it get away.We hung on Tuesday and just couldn’t get it done last night.

  13. Westwood Eagle

    Can’t really blame the bullpen for this one when the offense chokes after the 4th inning. Blew too many chances on some poor at bats.

    • pinson343

      This is true. It would have taken about 16 innings for the offense to win it. But there’s also the thing that the Reds led in the 8th.

    • Matt WI

      I agree. I only was able to listen to innings 2-6, but there were opportunities out there on the bases that came back to haunt. The other side of that is that it’s not as if it was the Cardinal version of Holmberg out there they were hitting off of in the first place. More to the point, the Cardinals don’t even have a version of Holmberg to trot out there.

  14. pinson343

    Vicferrari asked a good question on the game thread and the recap: “What would you have done differently Wednesday? And then my follow up, why not do the same decision Tuesday night?”

    Tuesday night we didn’t yell about the use of Hoover against a good hitting lefty (Heyward) in the 8th because Hamilton saved his butt with a game saving catch. Without that catch, Hoover would most likely have blown that save, and we would have been grumbling after Tuesday’s game.

    The only rational answer I can think of to Vic’s question is to have used Chapman in the 8th inning and Hoover in the 9th on both nights, if we’re going with consistency. But that’s not a realistic answer, no one is currently using a closer in the 8th even when the tougher hitters are up then.

    My realistic complaint is that last night was ideal for using Chapman in the 8th, to face the red hot Carpenter (even if you don’t bring him in until Carpenter is up). A 4th consecutive win over the Cardinals was right there to be had. And why save him for today – it’s pretty doubtful he’ll be needed with Wacha facing Lorenzon.

    Price talks every year about using Chapman in the 8th in certain situations and then doesn’t do it.

      • DavidTurner49

        It makes no sense for Hoover (lately struggling with lefties) to face three of them in the 8th. Bring in Chapman for that. Let him stay in for the ninth or use Hoover then against lesser hitters. So what if Hoover not Chapman gets the save if the Reds win.