2013 Reds / Game Thread

Game Thread: Pirates at Reds (2013.09.28)

Happy thoughts.  Happy thoughts.  Happy thoughts.

Two games remain in the regular season.  The Reds must now win both to host the Wild Card game on Tuesday.  Regardless of what happens these next two games, if the Reds win that game Tuesday all will likely be forgotten and excitement will reign supreme in the Queen City.

Discuss today’s game here Reds fans.  Cheer for the Reds!  Pull for the Reds! Do whatever it is you need to do to urge this team to victory.  Go Reds!

611 thoughts on “Game Thread: Pirates at Reds (2013.09.28)

  1. OK. How did Marty and the GABP fans screw up today? Marty commented on the radio, “the first base dugout better get a plan” what a negative grouch. If we had more of a rah-rah announcer like John Sterling or some other sycophant, the Reds would be a pennant winner. Keep focusing on Marty…he’s the real problem, right

    • @PeteRose_HOF_NOW: He’s not the problem but I just don’t listen to him anymore. It might be enjoyable if the Reds would place someone in the booth with him that would challenge his opinions.

  2. Anybody interested in visiting a dentist?

    If not, how about following the Reds?

  3. Reds have looked hapless of late, and the Pirates seem to use our pitching for BP. Not sure if the Reds will tank in the WC, but either way the worst news is we will still be stuck with Baker and Jacoby…..(sigh) I know Milton is disappointed.

  4. Allowing a pitcher to give up 5 jacks …

    that would get any other manager fired.


    No, he’s Bob’s guy!

    • @cincyreds14: The most interesting thing about Bronson giving up 5 is that the Tim McCarver said that is only a season-high, rather than a career-high. I’m too lazy to look it up, but if McCarver is right, some manager let Bronson give up 6 jacks. Pretty amazing. And pretty inexcusable.

      I don’t see how anyone with an average or higher IQ can sit and watch a guy throw batting practice, give up 4 HR and think it’s a good idea to leave him in after another base-hit. Mind boggling. Absolutely ludicrous.

  5. Once again, though, Dusty will be off the hook for how he managed Arroyo today, because the offense left 10 (probably more) on base.

  6. Pirates FA pick-ups in this series so far:

    Morneau = 1 for 5 with one run scored and two walks.

    Byrd = 5 for 7 with two runs scored, two homeruns, a double, 4 RBIs

    Reds FA pick-ups in this series so far:

    Ryan Ludwick (our coming of the DL acquisition to light a fire in our roster) =

    0 – 4, grounding into a DP, striking out once, and one walk.

      • @vanwilder8: Not sure stating the stats of this series is “cherry picking”. It is what it is.

        I think it’s evident that the additions of Byrd and Monreau have enabled Pittsburgh to not fall.

        Were you happy with our team’s lineup as it was? Did you truly believe Luddy was going to add a spark?

    • @tpteach: Choo seems to be having a pretty good series why didn’t you include him? The Reds picked him up to improve the in the offseason it is the same as picking up a player at the beginning of the year.

      • @RedsAk19: Huh?? Picking up Choo in the offseason is the same as a midseason FA acquisition? Yikes. Different conversations my friend.

  7. Since the off-season starts on Wednesday, I might as well start the chatter.

    The only players I would keep for next year would be the following. All the rest can hit the road (in whatever manner necessary).

    The rest I could care less about.

    • @Hunt4RedsOctober: I’d dump Heisey and keep Cozart. There is a ballplayer in Heisey but I don’t think we will ever see it with DB. Cozzy numbers for a SS are not bad especially hitting eighth. Every team needs an eight hitter, he could be ours.

    • @Hunt4RedsOctober: Why do you keep saying the postseason starts on Wednesday?? The Reds play the Pirates on Tuesday. This Tuesday. The day before this Wednesday (which, ironically, is the AL WC game).

  8. I think the BRM would do better than this team – even at their advanced age.

      • @Johnu1: Did Sparky have any children? And if so, install them as an interim manager Tuesday night. You never know, probably would do better than any Dusty inspired or led team (something we as Reds fans would contest to and sadly are way too familiar with).

    • @cincyreds14: I realize this is just one of an entire slew of venting comments tossed out today by people but come on. Relax guys, it’s a nice day out.

      • @Mwv: Guess there are people out there who think because they read it on the internet it must be true (dude, relax, it was a joke).

  9. Maybe Teddy Kremer’s parents will bid on and win the “Reds Manager For a Day” promotion, 10/1/13, at PNC Park. One can hope, right?

  10. Walt says they won’t decide till Monday about Hamilton on the roster. No sense in urgency on that.

  11. I posted this a few weeks ago, but since there’s not much else to discuss, I’ll do it again just for fun. The highest paid hitters in major league baseball for the year 2013, in descending order:

    M. Young

  12. marlon byrd looks comfortable @ the plate….maybe dusty could offer his chair while he waits in the box between pitches…..

  13. that was a quick 7th… maybe we are waiting for 2 outs in the 9th… and then a walk off win?

    see you all Tue here…

    God help us on Tue…

  14. I don’t think Hurdle managed the Pirates that much better than Dusty did today. Hurdle left Morton in for three runs and then let him put two guys on base and then finally walk a batter. If that last batter had hit a home run instead of walking, he’d have given up the same number of runs as Bronson. Not trying to defend Dusty. He did his job poorly in that regard today. But Hurdle, who is also pretty old school in a lot of ways, really didn’t do much better.

    • @Steve Mancuso: Hurdle didn’t put Ludwick batting 2nd, and Ondrusek and Duke as 2 of his first 3 relief pitchers… so probably still has a solid edge.

      • @ToddAlmighty: Hurdle is a far and away, heads and shoulders, better manager than Dusty. Don’t even compare the 2. Look at how Hurdle has the Pirates playing. And the Reds, well, can you say the walking DEAD?

        I would pull my son off of a little league team that was managed by Dusty.

        • @ToddAlmighty:
          I would pull my son off of a little league team that was managed by Dusty.

          I wouldn’t, he’d be a major league player, making big money, and he could buy me a house and a nice car. I’d totally sell out and let him play on Dusty’s team. Haha

          • @ToddAlmighty:

            The odds of a little leaguer actually making the major leagues are beyond staggering.

            Recommend sticking with the Ohio lottery – you’d have a better chance. Gold C teams galore here in Colorado – only one player to really pan out over the past 20 years – who was that you say?

            Roy Holliday of Arvada, Colorado who actually came of age after playing high school ball at Arvada West HS.

            And one more point, waited over 30 years for a big time pro athlete to come out of sports powerhouse (primarily football) Saint Vincent-Saint Mary HS in Akron, Ohio. Who was that you say?

            LeBron James – Miami Heat

          • @cincyreds14:

            Roy Halladay:

            During the 2000 season, Halladay sported a 10.64 earned run average (ERA) in 19 games, 13 of which he started, making his 2000 season the worst in history for any pitcher with at least 50 innings pitched.[9][10] At the beginning of the 2001 season, Halladay was optioned to Class A Dunedin Blue Jays to rebuild his delivery.
            Halladay’s fastball was clocked up to 95 miles per hour (153 km/h), but it had little movement, and his pitches were up in the strike zone, which was ultimately the reason why his 2000 season was so unsuccessful. He worked with former Blue Jays pitching coach (and ex-Red’s pitcher) Mel Queen. The problem, Queen realized, was Halladay’s total reliance on his strength—his attempt to overpower batters with straight-ahead pitches. Within two weeks, Halladay had altered his arm angle for a more deceptive delivery, and added pitches that sank and careened. Instead of throwing over the top, he chose to use a three-quarters delivery (the middle point between throwing overhand and sidearm). Originally a fastball pitcher, he became reliant on keeping his pitches low across the plate, regardless of the type of pitch thrown. The adjustments proved successful. After a month and a half, he was promoted to Double-A Tennessee, and a month later, to Triple-A Syracuse. By mid-season, he was back in the Blue Jays’ rotation. He posted a 5–3 win–loss record with a 3.19 ERA for the Blue Jays in 16 starts in 2001.

            Goes to show you, good coaching (especially by ex-Reds – and just try this, can anyone say “Red’s hitting coach Eric Davis”) in one breath?

            Time to jettison a manager and a coach from the Red’s staff and add some new highly energized personnel Reds.

    • @Steve Mancuso: Slight difference – Bronson had given up 4 jacks before the fifth one. Hurdle has managed circles around our guy, IMO.

      • @Steve Mancuso: Morton far less inclined to throw a gopher ball … as well, had the lead and can do more things. That’s more about the pitchers than the managers, IMO. Bronson and Bailey needed to bring their game to the park today and they didn’t. That speaks to managerial philosophy. Hurdle has gotten his guys to believe they can win and they do. This is not a great Parrots team.

  15. Wow, Hoover just hung that up there. It seemed to float in the air to wait for the bat to smack it.

  16. So Hoover comes in and immediately loads the bases. What exactly was that strategy supposed to accomplish?

  17. Ladies and gentlemen, presenting the Reds future closer, J.J. Hoover!

  18. How about if the Reds let Bronson pitch batting practice on Tuesday in Pittsburgh – never know, it might help.

  19. I turned off the game a few innings ago. Check in here periodically. Has there been any update on BP? That welt on his leg looked awful.

    • @Just A Fan: Only update came from BP on Twitter. He said xrays were negative, but he can’t walk right now. Going to try to make it for Tuesday.

  20. Did Byrd leave the bag early? I don’t see how he could be almost to the plate by the time the ball was cut off. He isn’t that fast.

    • @vanwilder8: Are you telling me that you’re still positive about the Reds chances to win today? If so, I don’t believe you.

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Love it Charlotte, some fans are simply clueless, and those fans are the ones Bob C wants to continue filling the stadium with.

        Have to take my hat off to Bob C though, he did designate a smoking area for those Reds fans that choose to smoke. Would have made Joe Nuxhall very happy – then he wouldn’t have had to hide in a closet.

        Here in Denver they legalize marijuana and in Cincinnati they want to criminalize smoking and return to the days of the Nazi invasion.

        So he has tried to make all fans happy – the last thing to do is jettison Dusty.

  21. oh, wait…Marty mentioning the disappointment of this home stand for a club in contention…how negative, clueless, what a grouch….

  22. Arroyo and Rolen. 2 great guys that left a stench in their last games in a Reds uniform. Brings a tear to the eye…

  23. Tomorrows lineup.
    Hamilton 8
    Robinson 7
    Heisey 9
    Mesoraco 2
    Hannihan 5
    Rodriguez 4
    Soto 1
    Izturis 6

    • @Hunt4RedsOctober: Honestly, I think the regulars should be forced to play in front of a ballpark full of fans who got screwed out of believing their team would put up a fight.

      • @Johnu1: If BP is down, Dusty better put a real line-up together. You know one that might include Billy Hamilton? Betting with Monday off, Hurdle plays all his horses tomorrow outside of catcher. Probably doesn’t want to chance any loss of momentum.

        • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: The players don’t need a day off now. A lot of them are after personal stats, which may or may not matter if you ask them … but they do matter to the players. They aren’t worried about getting “hurt” in meaningless games. They want to play and stay sharp. Hurdle won’t put his B team out there. Maybe he will use a 3rd string catcher. That’s about it.

    • @Hunt4RedsOctober: good, glad mesoraco who hits 40 points higher, with infinitely more power than Hannigan, gets a start. that’s exactly the right time for a manager to play him….wtf

  24. Reds offense is due to break out of this any day now. Might as well be on Tuesday.

  25. Reds have played errorless ball. That’s a really big deal in a pennant race — great defense.

    • @Johnu1: Told that to a Braves fan on my last visit to Cincy (you only have 1 birthplace), and he definitely agreed – pitching and defense – not necessarily in that order. The Cards have the pitching but I wouldn’t wager a plug nickle on their defense. That’s what beats the Cards every time.

  26. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the fact that the Reds lost these two games and making tomorrow’s game irrelevant, enables Dusty Baker to pitch Johnny Cueto in Pittsburgh on Tuesday and Cueto shuts down the Pirates for a Reds win.

  27. Cingrani in the 9th? Cingrani tomorrow?

    Or has Dusty just said “We don’t need him to lose, I can do that on my own!”

    • @FrustratedRedsFan: That’s a great point. Given the score today and the irrelevance of tomorrow, the Reds absolutely have to find a way to try out Cingrani. He would be way too helpful Tuesday and beyond to not give it a try.

      • @Steve Mancuso:

        Tomorrow is important as its the Lord’s day – now to the Reds – the rest of the season may be very well be irrelevant but Sunday is always important.

  28. Here’s Dusty’s thoughts – the visiting team won every game of last year’s playoffs – so we want to play in Pittsburgh to keep that streak alive.

    Goes to show you, he’s a thinking man’s manager – that’s for sure.

  29. I know the look of a team that needs new managerial leadership. This is that team. This collapse at the end of the year coupled with the playoff collapse last year points out all the problems of a Dusty led team.
    But he has a year left on the contract, so he’s not going anywhere. Let’s just hope that the ordeal ends after next season.

  30. Can’t believe how easily the Pirates are falling for the old “rope-a-dope routine. Come Tuesday the Pirates will be so tired from swinging the bats and running the bases they’ll be plumb tuckered out. Go Reds!

    • @Sergeant2: I had investigated the possibility of the false retreat — a tactic used by the great Khan in the 14th century and still appropriate for some aspects of pro baseball. Could be, the Dusteroo is a student of mystical military maneuvers and will spring a trap.

  31. I do not post on here much but let’s take a step back. The expectations for the past three seasons have been sky high. In 2011, we imploded and were never a factor. In 2012, we won the division and cruised through the first two games of the post season but then lost three straight. We could not hit with RISP and Dusty’s mismanagement doomed us to one of the ultimate chokes in modern baseball history. This year we expected the Reds to come out of the gate “hot as a match” and we have been very “average” much of the season. Of course we had injuries to Cueto, Marshall, and Ludwick which derailed those plans. I am a long time Reds’ fan for over 33 years but there is just a feeling of impending doom with this team. We all know that Dusty is very deficient in managing in “big games”. He puts Ryan Ludwick in the two hole with a .250 average in the biggest series of the season. I know there are few choices but a player that has average speed at best is put in that position in the order. Really? I just do not believe this team can “turn it on” when they want to. If that was the case, we would have thought that they would have done that last evening. These players have not been “conditioned” to play “urgent baseball” and due to that perhaps they have not felt pressure. When they get into these “pressure packed” situations like this weekend, the result is what we are seeing today. If we choke away this season by losing in The Burgh on Tuesday, Dusty should be fired. He might be a good manager for the Big 162 but they need someone to lead them to the next level. Casey Stengel is a great example. He took the Yankees to a seventh game in the 1960 World Series and lost on Mazeroski’s home run but was fired and replaced by Ralph Houk. In 1953 after leading the Dodgers to 105 victories and another World Series appearance, he was canned when he demanded a three year contract. He was replaced by Walter Alston who won the World Series two years later. We could look in house for this as well. Of course Pete Rose was banished from baseball during the 1989 season. He was banished in August. Lou Piniella was hired after the season and the rest is history. Dusty Baker has not even gotten close to what Stengel and Dressen accomplished but yet they were fired. There is precedent for this.

  32. Oops. I left something out. In 1953 after leading the Dodgers to 105 victories and another World Series appearance, Charlie Dressen demanded a three year contract….

  33. Reds will face a left handed pitcher who is 11-1 at home with about a 1.50 ERA on Tuesday and who completely shut you down for 8 innings 10 days ago. Anyone who thinks that has a possibility of turning out well for the Reds is delusional. The Reds needed to take care of business during this homestand and have now gone 1-5 because “it’s not crunch time yet.”

  34. I think when the market research goes out this fall for the Reds seeing who will re-up on season tickets, they might see an increase, might not. I would wager that the telling info that the research will reveal is that the fans don’t have confidence in the dugout staff.

    I would not be surprised that the players will say the same thing after this but market research won’t address that.

    Unless the Reds become a miracle team. In which case, I will be fine with Dusty.

    • @Johnu1: Reds just can’t wait that long – lose Tuesday – and start looking for a new manager – immediately! Have a new manager signed by the end of the World Series.

  35. Man, we have over 500 comments today. Hey Ludwick, Reds fans do care, do you?

    • @cincyreds14: I think they all care. Just like we all care. I know it doesn’t look like it though.

      Last year was heartbreaking. This year…..not so much heartbreaking as just very disappointing.

      Who knows, maybe they will win Tuesday. It ain’t over till it’s over.

      • @Just A Fan: Reds announcers are talking about players dealing with pressure. That is partly the manager’s job. And having a picnic in the dugout isn’t cutting it.


        God-bye Dusty, Jacoby, Arroyo and Ludwick – thanks for the good times and no thanks for the bad …

  36. Ah, as if we needed something worse to happen, the entire sound on TV is overtaken by chanting Pirates fans.

  37. Don’t you love Baker putting Ludwick in the 2 hole and not playing Billy Hamilton. Now we get to face Liriano at home who is nearly unbeatable. I want Johnny Cueto to start on Tues instead of Latos. I would hope Baker has a plan but I think we all know he doesn’t. Start Cueto and use Latos, Marshall and Chapman for multiple innings.

    • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Hang in there Charlotte, and yes Hamilton has to be on the Red’s playoff roster – if not just one more (of thousands) of screw-ups by Dusty. Hope Dusty’s gone by next week at this time (my birthday’s Monday and that would simply be a grand B-Day present).

  38. The Reds have bet the ranch on winning Tuesday. You never know whats going to happen with this team, ya just don’t know. Ain’t know doubt in my mind that if Cueto is healthy and not feeling any ill affects from his recent outings he will be the starter in the WC game. Lets end the regular season with a win tomorrow. Go Reds! Adios Amigos.

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