Let’s recap today’s titanic struggle….

Cincinnati 4
Colorado 7

W: A. Ottavino (1-2)
L: M. Leake (11-6)

–Chris Heisey was 4-4, the first four-hit game of his career. Of course, he was forced to leave the game with a hamstring issue, and that pretty much sums up the Reds season.

–Shin-Soo Choo was 3-5 with a double, a homer, and 2 RBI. Devin Mesoraco was 2-5 with a run scored and a run batted in.

–Brandon Phillips was 1-3 with two walks and a run scored. (Good OBP for today’s game.)

–If I told you that four relievers pitched today, and Logan Ondrusek was the only one to post a perfect line (in one inning of work), would you believe me?

–Ugly start by Mike Leake: six runs allowed on eight hits and two walks in 4.1 innings pitched.

–Curtis Partch was Curtis Partch for an inning and a third, giving up three hits and a run, increasing his ERA to 5.95.

–Brandon Phillips didn’t have any RBI. Is this Bizarro World? Am I living in Crazy Town? How did this happen???

–Joey Votto made another mental mistake, blowing through a stop sign at third to get thrown out easily at the plate.

–We love Votto here at the Nation, as we’ve made abundantly clear on numerous occasions. But on this recent road trip, Votto went 2-19 at the plate. That isn’t good.

–Reds lose 2 of 3 vs. Brewers, 2 of 3 vs. Cardinals, and just lost 2 of 3 to the Rockies. This is a playoff push?

–Reds pitchers have logged 1338.1 innings this year. Aroldis Chapman has thrown 53.1 of them. Fewer than JJ Hoover or Alfredo Simon. Ludicrous.

–If you were feeling optimistic, you’d say that the Reds could win 3 of 4 against the Cardinals in this upcoming series, and all would be forgiven with this team. That’s what you’d say if you were feeling optimistic. Does anyone feel that optimistic?

I don’t.

Source: FanGraphs

100 Responses

  1. Sergeant2

    Something extraordinary has to happen to spark this team out of its doldrums. Normally that would take a personnel, coaching or managerial change, but at this point in the season those options are just not feasible. Maybe a clubhouse brawl would do it, who knows.

  2. jumpman513

    2nd half series breakdown

    W vs PIT 2-1
    W @ SF 3-1
    L @ LAD 1-3
    L @ SD 1-2
    L VS sTL 1-3
    W VS OAK 2-0
    W VS SD 2-1
    W @ CHI 3-0
    SPLIT @ MIL 2-2
    W VS AZ 3-1
    L VS MIL 1-2
    L @ STL 1-2
    L @ COL 1-2

    6W -6L SPLIT

  3. jumpman513


    CINCY (25 games left)

    10 (4 vs STL) home games
    9 (3 @ PIT) road games
    6 (3 vs PIT) home games
    STL (26 games left)

    4 (@ CINCY) road games
    9 (3 vs PIT) home games
    7 road games
    6 home games
    PIT (26 games left)

    9 (3 @ STL) road games
    11 (3 vs CIN) home games
    6 (3 @ CIN) road games

  4. Darts

    I wanted to pull my hair out after the game hearing Dusty say Votto made the right decision to go home and that there is no sign on a play like that. So Berry was emphatically giving Votto the stop sign just for the heck of it?

    Someone smarter than me please explain what should be done in that scenario if I’m wrong.

    • cincyreds14


      I want to hear a lot of

      Pete! Pete! Pete!

      at the Reds-Cards game I am tentatively planning to attend on Thursday evening (tentative since I probably will not be in attendance if I am experiencing severe indigestion due to the Reds ongoing poor play).

  5. wildwestLV

    40 year-old Todd Helton will probably be on the left wing of the aircraft, heading back to Cincy, tearing it up, all to hell. Who is the Reds passenger that witnesses it? Dusty has the tranks.

  6. tae

    If the ownership truly wanted to go far into the playoff, they should fire Dusty now… But they won’t do anything or say anything, just like inaction with trade deadline. Why?

    I think they think ” best baseball is still ahead of us ” ….

    Human beings r eternally optimistic ya know…

    • cincyreds14

      @tae: Man, this Reds regime smells a lot like a second helping of Mikey Brown’s Bungles casserole. They are simply content to sit back on their big fat wallets while conceding the Division and the NL flag to other more competitive and professionally run ball clubs. They sold Red’s fans that they were small market. They are not. The Red’s fan base comes from all of the tri-state area, West Virginia and Columbus. That’s huge. It is called capitalizing on your market. They short change Red’s fans whenever and wherever they can. Pathetic!

  7. Darts

    @cincyreds14: What are you specifically talking about? From my point of view the lead story was the Reds lost a series AGAIN to a team they should have beaten and based on recent events they are limping to the finish line. How is he wrong?

    • cincyreds14


      Direct quote from above:

      “We love Votto here at the Nation, as we’ve made abundantly clear on numerous occasions. But on this recent road trip, Votto went 2-19 at the plate. That isn’t good.”

      A number of Red’s Nation fans would definitely disagree with his statement as the number of Votto fan club members that continue to jump off the Votto fan club wagon is increasing by the day and is becoming staggering. $15-$20M? I want Miguel Cabrera of the Tigers numbers (43 HR 130 HR .358 BA) – not this guy (and as part of the job requirements for someone being paid in the $15M – $20M range is an intense desire to be a team leader (like Molina))! 20 HR 63 Rib-eyes and a .306 BA. Paltry production from someone in his salary bracket.

      • Eric the Red

        @cincyreds14: Two things I actually trust baseball professionals to get right:

        1) Joey Votto is clearly in a slump right now. (It happens to everyone, regardless of paycheck.). If a day off were likely to help, I really believe he’d have gotten a day off in this series, either against the LHP Friday so he’d have two days, or yesterday. Since he didn’t get a day off, I trust him, Dusty, Chris Speir etc. with decades of baseball between them to have judged that properly. Sometimes guys need a day, and sometimes they don’t. I fully trust that they understand the difference more than I do.

        2) Chapman’s recent usage. If Chapman is healthy, I trust Bryan Price would recognize that he needs to pitch, and would have pushed to get him an inning Saturday or Sunday. I trust Dusty would have listened to him. From which I conclude that for whatever reason Price believes using Chapman would have been worse than letting him get rusty. I wonder if that calculus would have held if we had a small lead to protect, but since that never happened I trust Price/Dusty made a smart decision that the lesser of two evils was to not get him in a game.

  8. Darts

    @davidphillips6: I don’t think it’s so much despair as it is an accurate assessment. If you’ve been watching this team over the past 2-3 months there’s no other conclusion you could come to than this team is underachieving and at times they simply look disinterested.

  9. CharlotteNCRedsFan

    @davidphillips6: I understand you but understand this: many including myself really want to buy in. Very nice game yesterday and then lay an egg today. If we could just get a consistent performance out of this team, it would be a party around here. I think this is why this team is just not that much fun about every other day.

    I pray that the long awaited streak begins tomorrow.

    Go Reds, and David don’t give up on the Nation!!

    • davidphillips6

      @CharlotteNCRedsFan: I agree they can be maddening at times, but if you can’t buy in to a playoff team, then maybe the problem is with you as much as it is the team. The Cardinals won a WS with 83 wins just a couple of years ago. You get in and anything can happen. Barring a complete collapse we will be in.

      • jessecuster44

        @davidphillips6: appreciate your optimism, I really do. However, do you think tinkerbell is going to show up, sprinkle fairy dust on the team, and the Reds roll to a World Series title?

        Something needs to change for this team to shake the malaise it has been in since May, and compete. This team has not shown the willingness to change all year, even when circumstances dictated it.

        If the status quo remains, a complete collapse is more likely than you think.

      • jessecuster44

        @davidphillips6</a@davidphillips6: In July of 1982, I actually held out hope that the Reds could come back and win the division. They finished 61-101. I was eleven years old.

        I know a lot more about baseball now. I remember 2006, and the Cardinals’ magical run. They had a competent manager and a professional approach to each game.

        I see things with this Reds team that I do not like. The manager’s contrary lineups and bullpen management, the lack of moves to improve the team, the amateur handling of injuries, the capricious approach to hitting, the horrid baserunning, and a lack of discipline that lets players behave however they please.

        Something needs to change, or the Reds go no further than they went last year.

        Which do you think will happen first: Dusty gets fired, The bats wake up before the end of the season and the Reds hit consistently, or Tinkerbell and her fairy dust show up?

        Again, I applaud your optimism. However, I am absolutely livid that this organization seemingly chooses to waste a chance at a championship by the decisions they make on a macro and micro level.

        You and DatDude could learn from the fact that namecalling damages credibility.

        Go Reds.

      • cincyreds14


        We need to go to the stadium this week and start yelling…

        We need Pete, we need Pete …


        We need Lou, we need Lou …

        just a thought.

  10. Johnu1

    Even if the Reds were to sweep the Cardinals, it would not make this a good Reds team. It would not make up for the blunderous dugout staff, the mental mistakes, the inability to hit, to play defense … or find an adequate bench.
    All a sweep would go would create a false sense of hope.

    • CharlotteNCRedsFan

      @Johnu1: No if the Reds sweep the Cards and win the LA series; I’m convinced, for the moment, this team has a shot a World Championship. This the kind of thing the need though. I’m crazy enough to think they still have a chance as long is they have a breath.

      They have to quit playing such lousy fundamental baseball though. The other contenders do: Cards, Dodgers, Braves & Pirates. They just do and we don’t.

      • vegastypo

        @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Agree totally about the need to play better fundamental baseball. TOTALLY.

        Regarding those other teams: The Cardinals aren’t known for their defense. … McCutchen turned an inside-the-park homer into a triple by loafing to first base (thinking the ball would be caught) and didn’t score from third, in a game in which the Bucs got shut out. … Hanley Ramirez still is not a great shortstop, and Puig is quite undisciplined for the Dodgers, overthrowing relay men, etc, earning himself some grief from the manager … Are the Braves still the strikeout kings of the world on offense??

        The Reds give me heartburn watching some of those gaffes, and I can’t imagine other teams being even worse, but that’s not to say they’re so fundamentally sound, either.

  11. Richard Fitch

    Well, David, there are a small, and I mean small group of folks who have trouble with adversity and act as if their favorite team is personally letting them down. They are the minority, but they do tend to dominate the discussion on occasion, especially when things are going poorly, as they are now.

    I choose not to go down this trail of tears and I hope you will resist the urge as well.

    • Richard Fitch

      @tae: I would think that a season ticket holder for 20+ years would know that after 137 games, you have to have beaten somebody other than the Cubs and equivalent teams to be 15 games over .500 at this point. I could understand all this sturm und drang is the Reds were where the Nationals are right now.

      The Reds are playing sloppy baseball in a season that has been mostly a success, if you think getting to the playoffs, where anything can happen, is a success. But, you don’t, which makes me wonder how you’ve stuck with all this misery for 20 years.

      • tae

        @Richard Fitch: sure once you get into the playoffs anything can happen… but that’s not the goal and shouldn’t be for a team with the talent Reds have this year. In sports, it is about expectations and I am only referring to not meeting those expectations this year. Did we have crappy years? sure and many of them. But there weren’t the expectations and we didn’t have this kind of payroll either. In today’s professional sports, you don’t have to agree but the reality is this team was built to win, money was spent to win, and talent is there to win. We do have 25 more games and as always I hope we win the pennant, but very rarely after almost 140 games, a team can just put it all together. I would have a bit more confidence if it was not for Dusty.. It’s him I worry the most. He can literally lose a game or two, and that’s all it takes.

      • cincyreds14

        @Richard Fitch:

        Mostly a success? The Reds have been a .500 club since Memeorial Day.

        Memorial Day 32-19

        Labor Day 76-60

        Net 44-41

        .517 ball is not successful – it is midland/average/mediocre.

        Man, that’s what happens when a team has been mostly putrid for the past 23 years.

      • Johnu1

        @cincyreds14: Curiously, however, the Reds are only a 5-1 week away from catching the Birds or the Parrots.

        The problem is in trying to catch both of them. Cincy needed to be in 2nd place this week, not 3rd place. The way they play is basically treading water (a common Baker symptom of any team).

        As well, I think we finally realize how important Cueto, Broxton and Marshall were to this pitching staff. Without them over the last 80 games, this staff has worn out and finally exhibited the reality that it’s not very good overall.

        Still, we could end up with 90 wins, which all in all, interestingly, ain’t too shabby.

      • cincyreds14


        Definitely, the Reds do miss Johnny C, Sean and Johnathan.

        And if the Reds end up at 90-72 then I guess at this point in ML history that would be considered successful.

        Still, this Red’s team has no heart and a bunch of automatons running around.

        Boy, do I miss Pete and Lou (as well as Barry, Rich Auerilla, Chris Sabo, Kevin Mitchell and Greg Vaughn).

  12. Baseclogger

    Nobody seems to be aware of a Chapman injury, and yet Partch, with the team for all of one game, pitched more innings on this horrid road trip than Chapman. I’m starting to sense we may be witnessing a “Major League” type of scheme to undermine the team, except the owner has been a little more clever about it by signing some very talented players and surrounding them with coaches, a manager, and a medical staff who are charged with making sure the team never advances beyond the first round of the playoffs. I’m not sure what the goal is, but I can’t really come up with a better explanation for the stuff we’ve witnessed this year.

    • dc937

      I’m starting to sense we may be witnessing a “Major League” type of scheme to undermine the team, except the owner has been a little more clever about it by signing some very talented players and surrounding them with coaches, a manager, and a medical staff who are charged with making sure the team never advances beyond the first round of the playoffs.

      You can’t be serious.

      Even the best teams are going to lose four out of every ten over the course of a six month season. You really think the organization is attempting to lose games intentionally after going 16-11 (.593) in the month of August?

      • Baseclogger

        @dc937: Do I really think it’s a deliberate attempt to lose games? No. That was a joke. But I’m finding it harder and harder to explain some of the decisions without resorting to saying things like “this seems like a deliberate attempt to lose games.” How do you explain the Reds being the only team in the league who didn’t make any trades? It’s not as if they’re the best team in the league or a team without major holes. How do you explain Partch throwing more innings than Chapman on the road trip? How do you explain Choo continuing to lead off against lefties when he’s literally the worst position player for that role? When a team continues to do things that objectively make no sense if the goal is to win as many games as possible, then what’s an alternative explanation? If it were just a matter of making a few questionable decisions here and there, that would be one thing. But Choo leading off against lefties, no trades to upgrade the bench, Chapman being terribly underutilized, nobody seems to understand how to run bases, Baker never seems to understand when to make a pitching change or which pitcher to use… it’s starting to seem a little Twilight Zone-ish, isn’t it? How many objectively counter-productive decisions do we have to endure before we start asking if this organization is actually committed to winning?

      • jessecuster44

        @Baseclogger: “We” are going to have to endure a lot. Clearly there’s some missing piece that we cannot see that ownership and Dusty has access to.

        No other team sat on their hands and made no trade. No other team would use Chapman this way. No other team would run batters out there when their numbers dictate their lack of success. No other team would handle injuries (Votto, Cueto, Broxton…) in such an egregious manner.

        Unless there is a reason. I suspect we will have to wait until November to fin out.

      • Richard Fitch

        @Baseclogger: I got answers.

        1. The Reds didn’t make any moves because they couldn’t find anyone who would make them better without giving up too much. When July 31 came and went, all of MLB was talking about how few moves were made because of of the 2nd WC and the number of teams who either were still tangentially in the race or had to act that way to keep their fans moving thru the turnstiles in Aug & Sept. Prices were exorbitant. Rule changes meant renting free agents won’t get you compensation any more. I would have loved to have seen them get Byrd at the waiver deadline, but that would have meant sharing time with Ludwick and, like it or not, they aren’t doing that because they still believe in him. No matter what Choo is hitting against lefties, he still is getting on base at a reasonable rate (.321). Why would they alienate him by platooning him for a marginal improvement 25% of the time? Izturis is on the team because he can field multiple positions if somebody goes down temporarily. He can’t hit, but sometimes you have to fill and need at the expense of another. Unless of course the Reds have the resources to fill every hole. But we know they don’t.

        2. You’re right about Chapman, but nobody in Baseball is really using their closer in high leverage situations except in extraordinary situations.

        3. Dusty is indeed a poor manager IMO and there no excuse for much of his decision-making. But, Castellini wanted him and I believe Krivsky wanted him, as well. Maybe the owner has a blind spot about Baker.

        You may disagree with why they are doing the above, and I do to in several situations, but they have reasons. To suggest they aren’t committed to winning is simply not true.

      • Johnu1

        @Richard Fitch: The 2nd wild card has made dealing at the deadline a whole lot harder. A year ago, if the Brewers and Phils hadn’t dumped at the deadline, they might have made post-season. Teams aren’t willing to gamble on that now. There are still lots of AL teams with an eye on the wild card.

      • Baseclogger

        @Richard Fitch: Amazing that EVERY other team even remotely in the playoff picture was able to find a trade to their liking, but nothing was available for the Reds. How do you suppose that’s possible?

        I bet there’s nobody in baseball that allows their closer to go a week without throwing a pitch when the stats show he’s not very good after a few days of rest and they’re about to face one of the teams they’re chasing. Can you show me another team that behaves this stupidly?

        I don’t really see the “blind spot” as all that different from “not being committed to winning.” As far as I’m concerned, if you’re truly committed to winning, you try to make sure you don’t HAVE a blind spot. You seek input from others. You challenge your beliefs. You don’t just go “well, this is what I want, so I’m doing it.” Technically I suppose there’s some tiny difference between “blind spot” and “not being committed to winning,” but I think they’re virtually the same thing. I mean, I’m sure all the guys on the team would very much like to win, but if winning were really their top priority above all else, would they make so many stupid blunders? Would they lose track of the situation, or jog instead of run, or not slide in an obvious slide situation, or swing at so many first pitches even though they almost never get hits on first pitches? How is it possible to be truly committed to winning but not actually do the things necessary to win, when those things are SO easy to do and SO obvious to anyone paying attention? “Blind spot” just doesn’t seem like the right term to me.

      • jessecuster44

        @Richard Fitch: good answers. I’m not happy with them, but I accept them. I’d still like to know why Chapman isn’t used more(just for the sake of keeping sharp).

        Hope that blind spot about Baker is gone by now. Otherwise 2014 is Groundhog Day.

  13. wildwestLV

    Winning season: check. Postseason appearance: check. Postseason series win: ___?___. Why am I not entitled, as a lifelong fan (born in 1974), to expect this? I don’t dare mention a NLCS or WS.

  14. RedsfanPa

    Another lost opportunity to gain ground by losing yet another series to a sub .500 team. It is brutal watching them play as they continue with the mental gaffes, and Dusty continues his head scratching moves. : (

  15. wildwestLV

    Nobody on this site will even question the lack of Chapman, injury or otherwise, until he doesn’t appear, except in a save situation, over the next four days. Once you understand this lunacy, the more it makes sense.

    • wildwestLV

      @wildwestLV: No, he has to appear, injured or otherwise…crap, I don’t even know under what rules he appears. I think we have to be winning, though.

    • Eric the Red

      @wildwestLV: Are you joking? There have been many posts on this site–some of them mine–questioning the non-use of Chapman. I even cited circumstantial evidence to conclude he’s probably hurting. Agree or disagree, but to say “nobody on this site will even question the lack of Chapman” makes it look like you don’t read other peoples’ comments.

  16. hamiltonred

    Cmon bryan, we need clutch pitching because clutch hitting is not in our vocab this year. I cannot remember (m)any games this year where we overcame a 3+ run deficit in 3 innings or less. As goes pitching, so go the 13 reds.

  17. dn4192

    After seeing how this team is playing and the games left, I am calling it now that on that last weekend of the season vs the Pirates we will lose 2 of the 3 and the Nationals will slip past us and take the final WC spot only to lose to Cards who will then lose to the Dodgers who will beat the Pirates in the NLCS and go on to play the Rangers in the World Series.

  18. wildwestLV

    To be honest, I don’t think either the Bucs or the Cards “moves” will make much of a difference. The Pirates added a bunch, who will, probably, at the very least, confuse the team “togetherness”. If that makes sense. Axford to the Redbirds is…meaningless. Reds simply have to put up or shut up, as cliche as that is, & make a run. That’s just it. Let’s see what happens.

    • Johnu1

      @wildwestLV: My problem is not that Axford went to the Birds, but that they got him from the Brewers. I always believe in the in-season taboo about dealing inside your own division in a pennant race. I guess the Brewers don’t have such ethics. Axford is not really the problem, but that he went to the Cardinals from the Brewers. If he’d come from San Diego, not as big a deal — at least, to me.

      • vegastypo

        @Johnu1: Maybe the Brewers were willing to let Axford go to the Cardinals because the Brewers expect to be able to hit well against him next year ???

  19. Johnu1

    This has not been a good baseball team since the end of June. For the longest time, I tried to reconcile the loss of Broxton, Cueto and Marshall, saying it wasn’t pitching that we lacked … but hitting.

    As the summer has worn on, it’s clear that losing those three pitchers has indeed taken its toll. The bullpen is shot now and it’s being managed by ouija board tactics.

    The lack of hitting has been even more pronounced when the pitching staff can’t sustain a lead, or keep it close.

    So for what it’s worth, just blaming the hitting would be easy. Blaming bad pitching would be easy. Three pretty decent pitchers have been missing most of the summer and it’s finally caught up to the Reds.

    Not having Ludwick? Could be, that was a factor. That one is a little harder to evaluate.

  20. MikeC

    Looking at the box score, that was a pretty incredible effort to only score 4 runs on 15 hits and 4 walks.

    • tae

      @MikeC: absolutely hard to do … 15 hits, 4 walks and score 4 runs… but Reds aren’t your ordinary team… as some of the pure optimists say on these boards, it’s ok… ” best baseball is to come ” as they say (as do your Dusty Baker and ownership)…

    • CI3J


      But remember, hitting with RISP is less important than OBP.


      • Kurt Frost


        But remember, hitting with RISP is less important than OBP.



      • MikeC

        The Reds hit 4/17 with RISP, better than the Rockies 3/13. Yet the Rockies managed to score 7 runs on 12 hits and 3 walks.

        4/17 is bad hitting no matter the situation, but the Reds didn’t get beat in this category.

    • pinson343

      @MikeC: The Reds managed that largely thru their bad habit of giving away outs.

      For those who missed it, the Rockies starter had to leave after 2 plus innings, 2-2 score with two Reds on and none out. The Reds had 7 innings to beat up on the Rockies pen. After a Heisey IF hit that would have loaded the bases with 2 out, Votto tries to score and is thrown out Helton, who could have rolled the ball home and still gotten him.

      Naturally the leadoff hitter the next inning, Hannahan, singles. That inning ends with Leake bunt popping into a double play. Three outs given away within 1 and 1/3 innings.

      Wilton Lopex comes in to pitch the 6th and the Reds are hitting him like it’s batting practice, but Cozart (who’s been hitting well) picks a bad time to bounce into a double play. And so it goes.

  21. tae

    Alrighty then.. regardless of the differences… we the Reds need to win 3 of 4 against Cardinals and 2 of 3 against Dodgers… need 5-2…. if not, we will be in the wildcard game and then who knows what happens..

    Wainwright is going to be at his best, no doubt.. we better bring an A game.. we go down 1-0 in 4 game series, we start to get mental again.

    go reds. see u all tomorrow

  22. homerandbruce

    Just a question. Please don’t shoot me because I honestly can’t recall. When’s the last time Joey Votto hit a 3 run homer?

    • jessecuster44

      @homerandbruce: That would have been the 3-run bomb he hit in the Aug 2 beatdown delivered by the Cards.

  23. CP

    We need some perspective here…from the Cardinals’ Viva El Birdos blog post on August 25, 2006, titled “on underachievement”

    “Our problem is we’ve got a couple of guys who are underachieving that need to do better,” general manager Walt Jocketty said before Thursday’s game at Shea Stadium. “And if they would do better, we would certainly be in a better situation.”

    yet again, the organization misses an opportunity to take responsibility for the team it has assembled. last week, they blamed the fans’ unreasonably high expectations for the unrest in cardinal nation; this week, they’re putting the onus on the players. the front office and dugout have done great jobs — flawless — only to be victimized by ingrates in the stands and slackers on the field. can you imagine an unluckier group of guys than jocketty, dewitt, and co.? do they deserve this?

    among the starting eight, only edmonds has substantially underachieved — and he’s still been plenty good enough. (it’s also true that molina has stunk with the bat, but that’s his right as a #8 hitter making the minimum wage.) but pujols and duncan have greatly overachieved, and encarnacion has lifted his game to about the league average. factor in an all-star year from rolen, eckstein’s career-norm season, and solid role-play contributions from zpiezio and j-rod and luna, and the lineup is way, way in surplus. collectively, the position players have performed well above their established level of performance; if that group is wanting, the fault lies with the guys who selected the players.

    granted, slack performances have run rampant on the pitching staff, but the organization’s flawed evaluation of its talent and inefficient deployment of resources has contributed to the downturn. marquis has been given way too many opportunities, wainwright and reyes way too few; the team took forever to recognize and respond to mulder’s injury and pretty much ruined him for the season. the cardinals — lotta fans, too — blithely assumed their luck would hold in the rehabilitating-castoffs department; but not every junior spivey you acquire can turn in a tony-womack season, and not every sid ponson or jeff weaver can respond to duncan’s magic elixir. sometimes flawed players turn out to be just that — flawed. the cardinals seem surprised by the discovery.

    the only backslide the organization couldn’t have anticipated and planned for is isringhausen’s — and even that one, a number of people saw coming. his has been an extremely costly collapse, prob’y worth 3 or 4 games in the standings; i give the organization a pass on it. but let’s not lay all the blame for this disappointing year at his feet; even if izzy were having his typical season, and had blown 3 or 4 saves at this point ‘stead of 10, so what? the cards would be a handful of games up on a weak division, heading into the postseason with an inadequate rotation and feeble bench, and we’d all be saying what we said the 1st half of this year — here comes another loss in the nlcs.

    don’t be pissed at the players, i wrote two months ago; be pissed at the organization’s complacency and arrogance. just once, i’d like to hear jocketty or dewitt come forward and say: you know what, we let the fans down this year. we came into the 2005-06 off-season with the best team in a weak league, with a clean shot at another world series, and we blew it. we underachieved; the men in charge didn’t make the best decisions. sorry, best fans in baseball; you deserve better. it’s going to be a struggle the rest of the way in 2006, but we’re still hoping for the best. and we pledge to do better in 2007 and beyond.

    that’d quiet a lot of us unreasonable, ingrate fans.”

    Well, this sounds familiar.

  24. Chad Dotson

    Everyone needs to settle down with the namecalling, etc.

    We’re all frustrated. Many of us disagree on many different things. But RN’s comment section isn’t going to turn into the typical internet cesspool just because the Reds aren’t playing well.

    Disagree politely. That’s all I ask. I don’t even ask that you agree with the dumb stuff I write!

    We all love each other, remember?

    • Sergeant2

      @Chad Dotson: We certainly all love the Reds and want them to do well. I agree there should be zero tolerance for name calling. When I and I’m sure others are critical of the Reds we are just venting, its as simple as that. I for one am glad that the RN honchos are keen not to let this magnificent blog turn into a cesspool. And if dumb stuff was banned none of my comments would get posted, so I do appreciate that. In all seriousness RN is the best baseball blog on the internet bar none. Lets keep it that way.

  25. OhioJim

    To lose this series was disappointing However, it is worth noting that this Rockies team was 37-28 (.569) at home before the Reds series. So they are not push overs or punching bags at home.

    • cincyreds14

      @OhioJim: Reds swept the Rockies last year in Denver. That season (2012) for the Reds is officially over. And btw, the Reds lost to a team missing their superstar LF.

    • vegastypo

      @OhioJim: Worth noting, yes. Didn’t the Pirates get swept in the thin air ???

  26. Sergeant2

    We’ve been down the “if we can get in anything can happen” road before. How bout we try a different route and win the division and let some other team worry about the “anything can happen” road.

  27. OhioJim

    As incredible as it would have seemed a few months ago, the Pirates can put themselves into the catbird seat to win the division if they beat up on the Brewers and the series in Cincy splits or goes to the Reds favor.

    As far as the Reds, like some said above, I am more worried about the Nats than the Snakes at this point. They have 3 each with the Braves (at home), Cards and DBack (both on the road); but the rest of their season is the Pfils, Metz, and Marlins……

  28. tpteach

    We all already know the outcome of this season. Reds will finish in the Wild Card game and lose it. And, Dusty will play a hand in assuring that loss.

    Those who complain about us pessimists for being too, um, pessimistic, need only remember that your optimism does nothing to actually help the team win games. Instead of berating the pessimistic bunch, why not simply state some facts and foolproof reasoning to support your optimism which, at this point, feels blind.

    If the Reds circumvent our (mine stated and most of yours in your heart) prediction, then I’ll rejoice alongside of you.

    But, admit it, you know what will happen. Not what CAN happen. Anything CAN happen. But you know what will happen.

    I’m just putting what you know into words.

    • cincyreds14

      @tpteach: Go get ’em teach – because if Reds Nation fans can’t see or are simply wishing to deny the plain truth – then please have them go somewhere else and be an optimist. Cold hard reality is ultimately be very painful. This team does not have the stones to truly compete.

      Time to reconstruct this team with some personality, discipline and determination.

      GO REDS (faintly …)

  29. cincyreds14

    Just reviewed today’s game and Hanrahan was playing in on the grass expecting a bunt from Rockies Dickerson in the bottom of the 5th. The count was 0-1 and Dickerson had showed no signs of bunting. So what happens? Dickerson slaps it by 3B and begins a big game deciding inning. As it is, the Rockies don’t play small ball at Coors Field – they play to Coors Field reputation not to mention that their BP has trouble holding a 1 run lead. So the Rockies play for the big inning – which if the Red’s had solid scouting would have definitely been aware of – instead its another Red’s loss. If Hanrahan had been back – its an inning ending 5-4-3 DP. Instead its the beginning of a big inning.

    • pinson343

      Just reviewed today’s game and Hanrahan was playing in on the grass expecting a bunt from Rockies Dickerson in the bottom of the 5th.The count was0-1 and Dickerson had showed no signs of bunting.So what happens?Dickerson slaps it by 3B and begins a big game deciding inning.
      So the Rockies play for the big inning – which if the Red’s had solid scouting would have definitely been aware of – instead its another Red’s loss. If Hanrahan had been back – its an inning ending 5-4-3 DP.Instead its the beginning of a big inning.

      Cincyreds14: You’re right and I believe that was the turning point of the game.

      • OhioJim

        @pinson343: I thought Hannahan was also unaware of how far to the middle Cozart was shaded. It looked like Hannahan could have laid out and picked it (for an out at 1st)but pulled up and let it go by because he thought Cozart was positioned to make a better play.

      • cincyreds14

        @OhioJim: The Reds aren’t aware of a lot of things – separates the men from the boys and the winners from the losers.

        And please add Sparky to the names of players/managers I truly miss.

        God bless his soul.

  30. 666wolverine

    I love Votto but running through that stop sign was so stupid! He needs to be sat down for a night! He’s obviously in a rut at the moment and could use a rest. Plus there are loads of ppl bagging on him this yr for his contract anyways and would love him benched for a significant amount of time. This team is lucky the snake or nats donot want to go to the playoffs. Well they will be given the wild card spot on a silver platter as the reds will go 1-6 in the coming week!!!! Ppl can bag on me on here all you want I can take it! I donot bs ever and tell it like I feel and right now this club I have not one ounce of faith! Which sucks because I love them!!!!

  31. 666wolverine

    This team doesn’t have the no quit mentality to come back when down by 3+ runs!!!!! When we get down by 3 I just turn the game because I know there is no shot of winning!!! We used to come back in games last season but this yr we no longer do. Wonder what happened to the no quit no matter what???

  32. pinson343

    I haven’t given up on the 2013 Reds. Specifically, I think they can win 4 or so of the next 7 at home, and I know who they’re playing. Why ? The main reason is the starting pitching. The trio of Latos, Bailey and Cingrani is the best top 3 in the NL except the Dodgers.

    I’ll feel better about the pen if Marshall can return and if Chapman ever pitches again.

    Some guys are hitting now, the offense would be OK if they would stop giving away outs. Yesterday they had a chance to turn the game into a rout after the Rockies starter left with none out in the 3rd. Instead they give away 3 outs in the 3rd and 4th with Votto’s base running blunder and Leake, who can hit, bunt pooping into a DP.

    It’s the kind of crap that has Reds fans so frustrated, and made it hard to enjoy rooting for the Reds this year.

  33. pinson343

    I post something down here and it shows up with comments made long ago !
    Trying again, sorry for the duplication.

    I haven’t given up on the 2013 Reds. Specifically, I think they can win 4 or so of the next 7 at home, and I know who they’re playing. Why ? The main reason is the starting pitching. The trio of Latos, Bailey and Cingrani is the best top 3 in the NL except the Dodgers.

    I’ll feel better about the pen if Marshall can return and if Chapman ever pitches again.

    Some guys are hitting now, the offense would be OK if they would stop giving away outs. Yesterday they had a chance to turn the game into a rout after the Rockies starter left with none out in the 3rd. Instead they give away 3 outs in the 3rd and 4th with Votto’s base running blunder and Leake, who can hit, bunt pooping into a DP.

    It’s the kind of crap that has Reds fans so frustrated, and made it hard to enjoy rooting for the Reds this year.

    • cincyreds14


      The Reds are Jeckyl and Hyde, reincarnated. Twice this past week the Reds looked dominate. Then for good measure they throw in half-hearted attempts the balance of the week.

      Crushed Wainright on Wednesday in Saint Louis – looked like the Reds were getting somewhere. Man, they looked tough. World-beaters with a new line of attack. Lasted one game. Laid an egg in Denver to a team without their All-star LF and solid CF.

      Hate to keep pointing the finger at the Reds fearless leader – but as far as the team’s lack of discipline, tenacity and drive – you have to start at the top – with Bob Castellini – Walt Jokerrty – Baker – Votto – not a true warrior among them.

  34. CI3J

    I do appreciate Chad pointing out Votto’s slump. In recent days, it seems like to state facts like that would set off a firestorm.

    Yes, we know Votto walks. But sooner or later, the man has to hit too. He is too good to simply keep passing the buck to inferior hitters on the team. As it stands, he is about equally valuable offensively as Brandon Phillips, which is absurd.

  35. pinson343

    Chapman hasn’t pitched since August 24. This is beyond crazy, he hasn’t pitched for 10 days. Other managers do not go that long without letting their closer pitch. Even Dusty hasn’t done this that I can recall.
    Chapman showed signs of a tired arm, is all I can think of.

    In any case, I hope he gets to throw a low stress inning before the next challenging save opportunity.

  36. zab1983

    all of you votto haters are going to feel real bad when we find out he was playing on a knee that was only at 90 % all year. the guy never misses a game and does everything u could ever ask of from the franchise face. Has he been average this year? for him, yes. but! bad knee!

    • Johnu1

      @zab1983: I think you are overstating the rather common meme of “haters.” But we are thankful for the insight. I will stop hating the guy now.

    • Redsfanx

      @zab1983: I think you’re right about that. Votto has physically not been at 100% this season.

    • vegastypo

      @zab1983: I think I would not be surprised if it came out that he was hurting from the knee injury, and limited to (name your percentage here) of his healthy self. And while I would respect him for trying to bulldog through it, I’d also say that, if true, trying to take the extra base on that injured leg might — and blowing through a stop sign at the same time — might not be the wisest choice, either.

  37. Eric the Red

    Key moment in the game: Leake’s bunt. Why on earth was he asked to bunt? There was already one out. He hits better than a typical pitcher. Yes, he should have executed better–I’ve been saying all year that we are surprisingly bad at bunting for a team that believes in the bunt–but the real mistake was having him bunt in the first place. An upset Leake then goes out and coughs up 4 more runs. Ball game.

    • Eric the Red

      @Eric the Red: FYI, our wonderful friends at RLN: something is messed up on the timing of the posts again. I posted the above comment in the morning and it slotted in before some of the posts from last night even though it wasn’t a reply to anyone.

      You guys do an amazing job. Thanks for the writing, moderating, and hosting!

      • Steve Mancuso

        @Eric the Red: That happens when we have to delete comments because they violate the site guidelines. Last night there were many that fit that criteria. When a comment is in response to a comment that is deleted, the default is to send it to the bottom. So every comment below yours that is time stamped from earlier was posted in response to a comment that was deleted. Sorry for the confusion. That’s one of the reasons I threw together a new thread early this morning.

      • Eric the Red

        @Steve Mancuso: Got it. Thanks. I guess I’m glad I had to watch the game on delay and missed the shenanigans in the comments.

  38. cincyreds14

    And by the way, the Rockies beat the Reds 2 out of 3 this week-end without their starting CF and LF. If the Rockies had Cargo and Dex Fowler this past week-end who knows what would have happened. A 3 game sweep by the Rockies? We’ll never know.

    GO REDS (expressed faintly – as the Reds have once again been found on the ventilator)!

  39. cincyreds14

    Excuses galore for Joey Votto’s tail spin. What has Joey provided the Reds in this past month’s pennant drive?

    Since August 1:

    Votto 25 for 95 (.263 BA) 4 HR and 14 RBIs.

    Since All Star game:

    40-144 (.278 BA) 5 HR 21 Ribeyes

    Forget his salary, a lot of mid tier 1B could do a lot better than JV. And as for his perpetual blunders – please explain those. He is actually becoming a liability to the Reds. And his 30th b-day isn’t until next Tuesday.

    We will have to wait and see what the Reds actually have in Joey. Not sold on him yet as a bonafide winner as he has shown absolutely nothing to date (sorry, forgot, the Reds have won the NL Central twice (tic)).

    Now Pete, everywhere he went – HE WON. And Larkin – how’d did he do – oh, that’s right – the Reds won the WS with Barry anchoring the infield defense.

    Cold hard reality is really difficult to swallow sometimes but until JV drives this team – the verdict will be out on him.

  40. Redsfanx

    The Reds go through the motions. They lack a clubhouse leader. BP lambasting C. Trent is not going to do it.