2013 Reds / Game Thread

Game Thread: Reds at Cardinals (2013.08.27) – 1

At this point, I just hope the Reds: 1. Know how many outs there are; 2. Don’t give up any grand slams; and 3. Don’t get hammered by the Cardinals!  It would be nice to at least take 1 game before this series is over so that the club doesn’t lose too much ground.  Mat Latos, you’re our only hope!

OK, that’s about as negative and pessimistic as I can be. I don’t really feel that way.  Even though last night’s loss was a bummer, I know the Reds can just as easily take the next two games in the series and suddenly everything is fine and dandy again.  Just trying to appeal to as many Reds “fans” as I can with this game thread!  Discuss the game here and GO REDS!

211 thoughts on “Game Thread: Reds at Cardinals (2013.08.27) – 1

  1. Want to remind/alert everyone that we are going to start a second Game Thread once we get to around 250 comments tonight. It’s our hope that this will address the instability of the site/service when our comment numbers swell to the heavens. This way, we’ll be able to keep posting at full speed as our Cincinnati Reds gloriously defeat the St. Louis Cardinals.

  2. I was reading an article on blogredmachine.com. it makes a good case that the Cardnials own the back end of the Reds rotation. Bronson Aroyo 0-3 5.96 ERA 4 starts. Mike Leake 0-2 8.27 ERA 3 starts. Homer Bailey 0-2 9.58 ERA 2 starts. All 9 Cardnial victories are against these 3 starters. Mat Latos 2-0 1.42 ERA 3 starts. Tony Cingrani 1-0 5.40 1 start. Cingrani pitched only 5 innings and had an elevated pitch count. The Reds won these 4 starts. Johnny Cueto had a 3.00 ERA last yr vs the Cardnials. So its all about who pitches. The Cardnials handle the soft tossing pitchers. Bailey is the oddity he is a hard thrower the Cardnials have owned. He needs to step it up if the Reds want to win games vs the Cardnials.

  3. I was reading an article on blogredmachine.com. it makes a good case that the Cardnials own the back end of the Reds rotation. Bronson Aroyo 0-3 5.96 ERA 4 starts. Mike Leake 0-2 8.27 ERA 3 starts. Homer Bailey 0-2 9.58 ERA 2 starts. All 9 Cardnial victories are against these 3 starters. Mat Latos 2-0 1.42 ERA 3 starts. Tony Cingrani 1-0 5.40 1 start. Cingrani pitched only 5 innings and had an elevated pitch count. The Reds won these 4 starts. Johnny Cueto had a 3.00 ERA last yr vs the Cardnials. So its all about who pitches. The Cardnials handle the soft tossing pitchers. Bailey is the oddity he is a hard thrower the Cardnials have owned. He needs to step it up if the Reds want to win games vs the Cardnials.

    • @Larry1980: I was aware of this. Also the Cardinals have had problems against LHed starters this year.

      Tonite is obviously the Reds best pitching matchup. But Latos needs to go at least 7. The Cardinals have absolutely battered the Reds bullpen this year, except Chapman.

      The bullpen in particular has blown two late leads in St. Louis.

      • @pinson343: the funny thing is Arroyo and Leake each had a good start vs the Cardinals and the bullpen blew it.

    • @Larry1980: Homer needs to get over his Cardinal problem tomorrow. One hitter who – early in his career – talked about how nasty his stuff was: Albert Pujols.

  4. Last night’s game was disappointing, certainly. Home run balls to Holliday and Craig accounted for 7 instant runs and combined with another maddening example of pitching staff (mis?)management Reds fans and especially the die hards on this site are understandably depressed. But let me propose a thought exercise:

    The Reds are 3 1/2 games out of first with a bit more than a month to play. They have a 2 game series in St. Louis against one of the two teams ahead of them. They have (arguably) their best two starters lined up to pitch – Latos and Bailey. The offense has shown signs of resurgence, especially from the right side – Ludwick looks better each series, Cozart and Mesoraco are hitting, and even Frazier has shown flashes of form. If the Reds can take these two games they are in an excellent position for September, with plenty of games left against the Pirates and Cardinals.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but that has my attention. I would love to be looking down at the rest of the NL Central, but given the standings I’m pretty excited about the possibilities of right now. Anyone else want to watch a couple of Reds games? If RLN can’t get fired up for these next two games then… why are we Reds fans again? I am. Can’t wait.

    • @Chris DeBlois: I’m fired up. But I want to see the Reds fired up. No more dumb plays and jittery relief pitchers. Go on the attack !

  5. Until game 163 there the Reds don’t have a “must win” game. But this feels like a must win game.

    • @al: When a team misses the playoffs by one game, or puts themselves into a one-game/play-in, and loses: which game in the regular season became the, “Must Win Game” ?

      • @wildwestLV: That’s why I said, there’s really no such thing as a must win game until the game that if you don’t win, you go home.

      • @wildwestLV: The game that (mathematically) they must have won to avoid elimination or avoid the one game playoff.

    • @al: If you don’t take them all as must-win games, then you can just as easily be caught behind and not even end up having an actual “must-win” game.

  6. I would not let Leake within 100 yards of a playoff rotation if they are fortunate enough to get that far.

      • @vanwilder8: Or an emergency pitcher, if a starter gets injured. Not having him on the playoff roster last year was a screw up.

    • @AnnapolisHoosier: He’s fine, like Arroyo, if he’s dealing. 100+ pitches, against a playoff-caliber team is like playing Russian roulette, though. I know, unlike Bronson, he’s a much younger young man, but it is what it is. Management.

      • @wildwestLV: I optimistically predicted 6 innings and 3 runs allowed for Leake last nite. He did that, but then …

        Except for the inning (3rd ?) with the walk, single, and blast by Holliday, he was a ground ball machine. He can do that as long as he’s getting sink on his pitches.

        Having said that, Cingrani is a much better matchup against the Cardinals.

  7. Playoff roster – last year the Reds carried 14 position players and 11 pitchers

    pitcher locks (9) – Latos, Bailey, Cingrani, Arroyo, Chapman, Simon, Hoover, Parra, LeCure

    others – Cueto, Marshall, Leake, Ondrusek, Partch

    position locks (12) – Votto, BP, Cozart, Frazier, Ludwick, Choo, Bruce, Hanigan, Mesoraco, Heisey, XP, Hannahan

    others – Billy Hamilton, Derrick Robinson, Henry Rodriguez, Izturis, Lutz

    Who you got?

    • @vanwilder8: Izturis is already a lock. I would guess Robinson is the extra position player.

      I think Ondrusek will be the odd man out, and Leake will be in the pen.

      If Cueto and/or Marshall are available, then it gets interesting. That would conceivably put Cingrani and Parra on the chopping block.

      • @al: I would think Leake would be out before Cingrani, especially with him being a lefty.

      • @al: Cingrani will be on the roster. Dusty wants him in the bullpen for the postseason. Are you assuming Simon is a lock ? He’s not.
        Last year Simon was on the postseason roster but Leake was not, which turned out to be a mistake.

  8. I’m gonna be positive.

    I’m positive the Reds will play tonight.
    I’m positive the Reds will score.
    I’m positive that the Cardinals will not bat 1.000.

    And i’m positive the Reds will win.

  9. It seems like the Reds have simply cast their lot with the existing roster and that decision was made early on after Ludwick went down after the 1st game of the season. A lot of discussion has revolved around the lack of any trade activity in aquiring players to fill needs on the Reds for 2013. Personally, I can not find fault in not making a trade with someone who is holding a gun to your head, so to speak, and trying to fleece you in the process. Only WJ could elaborate on the lack of action in claiming Byrd off waivers, but WJ doesn’t discuss such matters. That leaves the Reds with their existing roster, for better or worse.

    As long as Ludwick is deemed to be the RH power hitter and run producer this lineup has lacked, why isn’t he hitting cleanup? Since August 17th (10 games), BP has slashed .293/.310/.415 with 1 HR & 1 3B. That’s not bad but a .724 OPS is not particularly impressive for a cleanup hitter. Since August 17th (8 games), Ludwick has slashed .360/.385/.520 with 1 HR & 1 2B. That’s a .905 OPS and is impressive for a cleaup hitter. Both went 0-4 last night. Since the Reds don’t need any help with their lineup from outside the team, they need to start using those available resources as they intended them to be used.

    • @Shchi Cossack: All true, but Dusty believes in set roles and veteran leadership and not clogging the bases.

      Also, toothpicks and sweatbands.

      • @vanwilder8: Actually, I don’t believe the Bakerman believes in veteran leadership. I believe he thinks all veterans should be leaders and, thus, he just needs to sit back and let them be the leaders. He has no leaders on this roster, no one like Rolen would be. If the Bakerman doesn’t step up, if no one else steps up, then this team is probably done as far as leadership goes.

          • @pinson343: The Bakerman believed it would. Like I said, I believe the Bakerman thinks all veterans are leader-types. That is wrong. Like Votto, I would not consider him a leader of this team.

      • @vanwilder8: After posting, I also realized that Dusty is going to give BP the chance to get as many RBI’s as possible so BP can pad his personal goals. That would preclude moving anyone else into the cleaup position behind Votto and Choo, the NL leaders in OBP.

        • @Shchi Cossack: BP’s goal was 100 RBIs and he’s almost there. Also Dusty likes Ludwick. If Ludwick comes around, Dusty will bat him cleanp.

          • @pinson343: PS Good stats his last 8 games but Ludwick is not quite comfortable yet. I’m OK with giving it a little more time.

          • @pinson343: BP’s set that as a goal after he moved there and after he realized how many RBI’s he was getting. No one would ever set a goal for the year of 100 RBI’s from the 2 hole. The Bakerman is placating to BP.

  10. I would rather get run over by a bus than lose games to the Cardnials. Especially last night’s game.

  11. It is a great night to play baseball! Lets go Reds!

    How many out is it already? 😛

  12. When asked how his team was going to approach the important stretch of upcoming games, Matheny replied: “The same boring way we always do. That’s leaving nothing on the table every game”

  13. Does anyone know the line-up? Who’s catching tonight is what I’m wondering.

  14. I would love to see Latos knock Craig on his rear the first time he bats tonite. Anyone else feel the same way?

  15. OMG, that is being such a whiny little BS, it’s ridiculous. I can understand why they are whining, a bit, trying to get every little advantage they can get. But, in that respect? Please, seriously?

    • @steveschoen: You know, there may be reasons to call the Cardinals whiny, but that ain’t one of them. All they did was tag Choo who actually DID turn toward second–it was reasonable to try tagging him. The umps didn’t agree, and then explained why to Matheny. There was no whining.

      It’s funny how much Reds fans likes to complain (whine, if you will) about the Cardinals whining. It’s an old trope that may have been true under La Russa, but I don’t see it any more.

      • @yoobee: It was whining. Did Choo turn toward 2nd base? Yes. Did he make any motion to get to 2nd base, to continue on? No way.

        • @steveschoen: Players don’t make the judgment about Choo’s intent to advance–they simply apply the tag. They applied the tag, and the first base ump conferred with the others to see what they thought. I cannot see how that is considered whiny.

          Was it whiny when Votto asked to see the ball that Gomez caught to rob the homerun? It seems like if Holliday had done the same thing, you would have called that whiny.

  16. I think the issue with Votto has nothing to do with his numbers or production necessarily. I believe it is the fact that he whiffs and fouls of a unusually high number of very hittable pitches. Even worse is the amount of times he has taken and looked at good hittable pitches. Very much unlike his previous years. He is a selective hitter but when he is pulling the trigger, the results aren’t there. Its ok to time and calculate but if you are doing that and only end up fouling off a pitch or missing or striking out looking, then clearly something is not right.

    • @fiercev: His numbers are slightly off this year, but I wish every player on the team were having his slightly off season.

  17. If that had been the Cards with 2 out and 2 on, they would find a way to score!

  18. Good to see the Brewers keep hitting against the Pirates. They’re up 5-0 now. Jeff Locke’s ERA is racing toward his FIP finally.

  19. Good Lord. It sort of makes you consider trying to go out and sign pitchers who have had success specifically against St. Louis.

  20. This doesn’t look good already. I’m so tired of losing to the Cardinals, I was really hoping for an easy game tonight.

  21. Y’know what? I can’t watch. I’m turning it off. It’s already too stressful.

    See y’all later.

  22. Latos will be lucky to get out of this inning giving up only 2 runs. If he can, I give the Reds a decent chance of coming back.

  23. Cowboy: That’s the way Cardinal hitters are taught from the time they’re drafted to the big leagues, with runners in scoring position, go the other way.

  24. Baker obviously reading my comments. Has he ever gone to the mound in the first inning just to talk?

    • @Hunt4RedsOctober: I feel your pain, but it ain’t over just yet. I fully expect Latos to settle down and get in a groove. Reds offense needs to do some business early and often.

  25. TV just scanned both the Reds and Cards dugouts. Cards are full of life and the Red’s dugout looked dead. Granted, the starters were in the field, but this team looks totally dead. Sorry!

    • @cincyreds14: I’m going to say all dugouts look pretty different when the team is playing defense and when the team is batting.

      • @al: I’ve seen that for the last 3 seasons, seriously. Like I said last night, how Chris Welsh said, “The players looked loose in the locker room.” That’s the last thing I want to hear. I want to see some people get fired up, playing hard, brain and body. It’s like with the Bakerman, “As long as we are loose, we will be alright.” Well, they haven’t been.

  26. Could be he is tipping his pitches. Could be, the dugout staff is a braindead puppet show.

    So much for the sense of urgency.

  27. I turned it off after Roider’s base hit. I’d rather catch the clap than look at that creep.

  28. Lord, those Cards are such professional hitters, it’s ridiculous. They make it look so basic. Just put the bat on the ball. Just make contact. I have to go see what it the most number of times they’ve K’ed in a game this season.

  29. I’m somewhat confused about that double play. Latos looked at the guy at third, then throws to second. Cozart throws to first, and Votto doesn’t even glance toward home as the runner is scoring. Just catches the ball and starts throwing it around the infield. Was there really NO reason to look home, or did Votto just forget what was going on? I’m not saying he actually had a play at home, but how did he know there was no play there? I watched the replay a couple times and I don’t see him even glance toward home.

    • @Baseclogger: He definitely didn’t look home. I assume he had been looking at home while the play was developing and knew that Beltran had already scored. But they didn’t show it on TV or talk about it on the radio. I’m sure Marty wouldn’t have passed up a chance to say something critical about Votto, so it was probably OK.

  30. This is gonna sound maybe absolutely batty, but would it be way crazy to, y’know, not try too hard when playing the Cardinals in St.Louis and not care if you lose the series or even get swept? Given their record there, it’d be like the series equivalent of intentionally walking miguel cabrera and taking your chance with prince, which in this case I guess would be the pirates. Concede the series and conserve resources for a team you can beat.

    I realize this is ultra pessimistic, but I dunno if it’s the CRAZIEST strategy on planet earth, given the record.

  31. Is it just me or does Mesoraco break his bat more than any other Red?

  32. Can we please get some of that 2 out magic right here? Pretty please?

  33. If this post jinxes us, “Negative Nellies/ Lunatic Fringe/ Insane Asylum Inmates / Etc.” posters, into a win, so be it. I hope it does:

    I’m compiling a top 5 list of actual headlines, about a certain, unnamed MLB manager’s teams, over the last decade, in the postseason. Can anybody help me predict the fifth one?

    1) “Giants can’t hold, WS-clinching, 5-0 lead in Game 6, 2002 World Series”

    2) “Cubs implode in Game 6 of 2003 NLCS”

    3) “Roy Halladay no-hitter lifts Phillies past Reds in Game 1”

    4) “Giants beat Reds 6-4 in dramatic Game 5, advance to NLCS”

    5) ?

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