2013 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Titanic Struggle Recap: No thanks

Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….

Cincinnati 5
Arizona 11

W: W. Harris (1-0)
L: J. Cueto (4-1)

–You’re kidding, right?

–Not exactly a good way to start a road trip.


A terrible showing tonight, Redlegs. Just awful. Milton is disappointed.

A terrible showing tonight, Redlegs. Just awful. Milton is disappointed.

40 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap: No thanks

  1. Hi Milton, you must have a cot set up by now.

    I mention this in the game thread, but looking at my gameday while at work, Cueto was all over the place tonight. I made an inquiry into whether he was regressing to his old form of falling toward the 1st base side when pitching from the stretch. I know a few years ago before he corrected that, he would get into that habit and it wound up making him wild and very hittable. Was he doing that again tonight?

    Also, LHP continues to be the bane of this team. I agree with a post earlier in saying: Holy Left Handers, Batman! Where -did- all this LHP come from so recently?

  2. Only got to hear a few innings Friday night before work got in the way, must have been horrid.

    I did hear Marty pick up the “Votto is paid to drive in runs” mantra again. He went on his little rant to talk about sabermetric guys loving walks, but Marty said he views walks as just a byproduct of a good plate appearance.

    Marty also commented how Dusty Baker has gone from expecting Ludwick back in early August to maybe mid-August. And then who knows how long it will take him to get his stroke down. It took a month and a half last season.

    Finally, from reading the game thread, now Hanigan doesn’t bother to run out ground balls either? Phillips often times, Cozart the other day … It’d be nice to see a little hustle.

      • @Hank Aarons Teammate: His point was that it was something you settle for. You failed, but here is your consolation prize. I’ve thought the whole idea of on-base percentage was that a walk is a good thing, not something to be derided.

  3. No worries here…we still have a good number of games vs the Cubs, Brewers and a couple other bad teams to get our win total up high enough to secure that WC slot and playoff appearance. And we know in the end that is all that matters….

    • @dn4192: “Wild Card is all that matters” is no longer true. As has been explained here before, now that two teams qualify for the Wild Card in each league, there is a one game playoff between the two of them. That’s essentially a coin flip. You might end up facing Jordan Zimmerman or Clayton Kershaw in that game.

      Qualifying for the Wild Card is worth 50% of winning the division, probably even less. Winning the division is a HUGE deal.

      • @Steve Mancuso: Agreed. After getting rid of that lump we had at the front of the batting order, we improved the team. Improving the team and we drop to WC? That’s not acceptable.

    • @dn4192: Given the decision-making and urgency factor of Dusty, the wild card scenario scares me to death.

  4. Rough by Cueto.. and I already called that Partch would be useless for awhile after being asked to throw over 50 pitches in that one appearance.

    BUT, that aside, I can’t help but say that positives are Joey Votto went 3-4 with a 2B and a HR which is great to see. Also Bruce apparently has decided that if he just hits a solo HR every game, he really doesn’t need to do anything else for the rest of it. Who am I to tell him that 6 HR in his last 8 games isn’t a positive? Now if only he could add 1 extra single per game with all these solo HRs and his stats would be absolutely skyrocketing. Amazing that he hits HRs in 6 of his last 8 games and his BA drops from .279 to .275

    • @ToddAlmighty:
      I guess the Adam Dunn anomaly applies here. 44 HR and a .205 BA.
      Bruce’s problem lately has been Phillips, who evidently has decided that 100 RBI is all that matters. Maybe being on base when Bruce comes up would help.

  5. Bruce is hitting solo home runs, which is no surprise given the fact that the Reds rarely have baserunners. Those who DO reach somehow figure out a way to get thrown out or picked off.

    Votto and Choo are doing fine getting on base, but they aren’t producing any energy in this brain-dead offense. You can pitch around the tough outs and let everyone else beat themselves.

    Hanigan has added poor defense to his rather pathetic attempts to hit the baseball. He also is becoming somewhat suspect in calling the game, which I KNOW comes from the bench.
    Whatever that means.

    My comment last night about this team not being very interesting … that still stands. Worse, Baker throwing in the towel in the 5th inning. That’s an insult.

    This team is not going to make the playoffs.

  6. I’m confused, what’s with all the disparaging comments about the offense on a night we scored 5 runs? That’s above league average for runs per game isn’t it? The problem was with Cueto’s location. Once we got into the pen you had to expect the Dbacks to get something done.. our pen just got torn apart by that 14 inning affair.

    • @Mwv: It works backwards. The team loses, and then people come up with things they are angry about.

      There’s nothing to see here. The offense was fine, Cueto had a bad game, and Partch isn’t that good. Mop up man comes in, bad things can happen.

      • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Okay, that was how I saw it too just wanted to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I watched the condensed version this morning since it was entirely too late a game for me to watch last night.

  7. Suddenly last year’s bullpen ERAs of 2s and 3s or being replaced by 4s, 5s, and 6s. They are looking very pedestrian.

    • @TC: The Reds need to do 2 things to make the playoffs. Fix the bullpen (getting broxton and Marshall back will make a big difference and they need to trade for another arm) and get a bat for LF. Robinson and paul are not everyday players. They are fine as role players with occasional starts but the Reds just aren’t getting any consistent offense from the position. This would obviously improve the bench by moving Paul and Robinson to the bench. I’m not counting on heisey as he is a bit player who will likely pull his hammy again and be out another month.

      If they can fix those 2 things, I think the Reds can not only make the playoffs, but can make a run.

      They cannot make the playoffs with the way the roster is currently constructed. Too many holes. They don’t score enough to compensate for the bad bullpen.

      • @RedForever: I tagged on at the tail end of another thread that the left filed solution could be Frazier with the acquisition of a high OBP bat handler type who could play a competent 3rd base. I would bat Frazier 4th and either BP or the new acquisition 2nd with the other batting 6th. also I’d drop Cozart to 8th and the catcher would bat 7 regardless of who it was. And I’d seriously look at flipping the catching to 60/40 Meso.

  8. Went back and watched the Lutz at bat. Meeting on the mound before the AB, catcher tells pitcher “this guy swings at anything” (I bet), pitcher throws three balls out of the strike zone, Lutz swings at all 3 and strikes out.

    I said a month ago people would be demanding Lutz be sent down, and it’s starting to happen. It’s just ridiculous that a guy who supposedly is a good prospect and needs a lot of work down there is on the Reds’ bench getting an AB once per game at most as a PH, and has 1 HR, 1 double, and 1 walk in about 60 plate appearances. He needs to go back down to AA and hit better than .210 there before he’s moved up the ladder.

    These habits die hard. A total lack of pitch recognition and plate discipline is not easy to fix. Before he develops permanent habits, get him out of Cincinnati. I am tired of hearing about 40 man roster issues as long as Pedro Villareal is on the 40 man roster.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Surely it is Lutz and not Robinson who goes down for Heisey’s activation (assuming he makes it to Tuesday without blowing out his leg again). And I think they have an open 40 man spot right now (unless WJ is holding it for Manny or Carlos Lee). 🙂

  9. Ah, the left coast game got the Old Cossack again, drat! The Old Cossack lost consciousness after the Goldschmidt HR, so I don’t have any specific comments, just questions about the final 4 innings.

    Did Dusty really just throw in the towel in this game or was he trying to deliver some sort of message to the team?

    Are the players just going through the motions and expecting the talent and preseason accolades to carry them through the season to the post season?

    The success reflected by having the 4th best record in MLB and the 3rd best record in the NL is hard to argue with, but I’m finding the peripherals around that success to be disturbing.

    Do the players lack internal leadership? Does the management lack leadership? Is the team just going through a temporary funk that will right itself shortly? Are these types of concern simply nonsense derived from a few tough losses? Does the team lack the fire, spunk, drive or whatever it is that is so indicative of winning teams?

  10. What’s even the point of having Devin Mesoraco? Kid’s started 2 of the last 8 games.

    Ryan Hanigan missed 18 (of 74) games so far this season, and still has 5 more starts than Mesoraco.

    • @ToddAlmighty: Leake certainly hasn’t suffered by working almost exclusively with Meso. Latos probably hasn’t improved but certainly hasn’t regressed (I think his pitch efficiency needs to get better to get him deeper into games on a consistent basis).

      The meat of the issue is who becomes Meso’s third starter if they make the switch to 60/40 in hte opposite direction? The logical choice would seem to be Arroyo since he is a vet who largely calls his own game anyway but then the Arroyo/ Hanigan paring seems to have some special dispensation.

      • @OhioJim: Doug Gray recently posted that the bench calls the game for both catchers. Last night I watched closely, it isn’t so obvious with Hanigan but he looks over at the bench before every pitch. He does it quickly, often before the camera shows the pitcher from behind.

        This is the first time I had read this. It’s interesting that an internet blogger revealed it, but none of the traditional media outlets have…

        • @CP: Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the “Hanigan is great crowd” will have to go back to pitch framing.

          I’m certain Hanigan is the better catcher. But Mesoraco should get a chance for regular playing time. But he never will with this organization, and if he just can get hot for some stretch, they should maximize his value and trade him—especially if they are planning to re-sign Hanigan (and I strongly believe they are).

          • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I got all over Meso in the off season but it certainly looks to me like learned his lessons and did the work he needed to in the off season.

            I agree he will never be the catcher Hanigan is but he is competent. (His hands simply aren’t as good as Hanigan’s (and most MLB catchers).

            However to me, he looks like he is as ready as he is ever going to be for a legitimate shot at the primary spot.

          • @OhioJim: Mes just has to be league average defensively (which I believe he is close to right now), and he’s potentially an all star. It’s important to remember there aren’t many 25 year old catchers in the MLB.

            The trick is getting him enough at bats that he can develop the skill set that could make him an all star. Mesoraco hasn’t helped himself out in this department, one big hot streak might have been enough for him to grab the reins. Of course, he was flaming hot when the season started, but then he sat for 7 of 8 games…

          • @CP: I can’t believe that after 5 years of watching Baker, anyone would think that Mesoraco, under almost any condition, would take over the reins at catcher.

          • @CP: I can’t believe that after 5 years of watching Baker, anyone would think that Mesoraco, under almost any condition, would take over the reins at catcher.

            Well in this case the reins was a 60/40 ish split in Mes’ favor. Baker has shown he can adjust a few times before….he’s just very very very slow.

        • @CP: I’ve noticed that Meso looks over a lot particularly with men on base. I figured the bench was call moves to 1st/ pick offs etc. but hadn’t considered if the bench was calling the entire game.

          If so who is making the pitch calls? Price?

  11. I really hope that Marshall is good to go when he returns. I’m beginning to think he is the key to setting up the entire bullpen’s effectiveness.

  12. Does anyone else think that with regular playing time, Mesoraco is already capable of a .255/15/60 season(say about 400AB) if that’s so, he’s already a top 10 catcher in the NL. The fact that he is backing up a player who is the definition of a solid backup right now would baffle me if it wasn’t dusty dustying.

  13. Does anyone else think that with regular playing time, Mesoraco is already capable of a .255/15/60 season(say about 400AB) if that’s so, he’s already a top 10 catcher in the NL. The fact that he is backing up a player who is the definition of a solid backup right now would baffle me if it wasn’t dusty dustying.

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