Johnny Cueto returns to the mound today to try and ensure the Reds take another series victory against the Brewers.  Cueto’s health (everyone’s health) and winning series are the keys in my opinion to the Reds eventually catching and passing the Cardinals within the division.

Happy Father’s Day to all the dads out there.  Hopefully you can sit back with your dad and son today and enjoy a Reds game and Reds victory.  Even if the Reds don’t win, enjoy the day with your family.  Go Dads and Go Reds!

A simple Reds fan from a simple town. I have been a Reds fan all my life. The 1990 team was crowned Champions during my prime youth years and I grew up idolizing Chris Sabo all the way down to the flat top hair style and the #17. I have passed that love of the Reds down to my three boys who love the game and the Reds just as much as I do! Follow me on twitter @CoachWilson17

Join the conversation! 170 Comments

  1. Happy Fathers Day. Its sunday and the Reds have the lost the last 4 sundays, with the bullpen blowing all 4 games. Lets hope they stop that trend today.

  2. Robinson, CF
    Cozart, SS
    Votto, 1B
    Phillips, 2B
    Bruce, RF
    Paul, LF
    Hannahan, 3B
    Hanigan, C
    Cueto, P

    That is an ugly lineup if I have ever seen one. Robinson/Cozart at 1/2, Hannahan in the game at all, and Hanigan (sorry but he’s not the Hanigan of old)… I don’t see how that could possibly be the best lineup you can make to get a team going after a shutout last night.

    • @ToddAlmighty: You are looking at the line up in terms offense. On the other hand it is arguably the best defensive line up the Reds could put on the field right now. With Cueto pitching that might be a major asset.

      • @OhioJim: I don’t know, I don’t buy that Hannahan is better than Frazier at 3B. While Robinson’s speed may be better than Choo’s out in CF, Choo has been solid-to-good. Meanwhile Paul always has me terrified anytime a fly ball comes his way and he changes direction like three times.

        Replace Paul with Robinson, keep Choo in CF, and Frazier at 3B still sounds like the best defense… and offense.

        Besides, I feel like all the talk about best defense is null and void right now. They just got shut out by a pitcher who came into the game with a 4.74 ERA. So they respond by taking out Choo and Frazier and putting in Robinson and Hannahan? Doesn’t matter if the Reds hold the Brewers to 1 or 2 runs with great defense if they can’t score at all.

  3. Sunday? Check.

    Cueto pitching? Check.

    Replacement players in key positions in the lineup? Check.

    They said it couldn’t be done. Dusty disagreed. Time travel has been invented and this is mid-June of 2012. Happy Father’s Day everyone.

  4. Whats the logic resting Choo and Frazier again today? So there is good bats on the bench when the bullpen blows the lead in the 8th again today? It’s comical, no other manager rests guys as much as this clown.

    • @EastCoastVibes: Is that true? Choo has played practically every game. I’d like to know how often other teams rest guys. Everyone here yelled until Votto got a game off.

      In terms of Frazier, he really hasn’t had that much rest lately, and he’s really not that good of a player. Yes, Hannahan is terrible.

      • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I think just because Frazier isn’t the level of amazing he was last year, you underestimate him. Among qualified NL 3B, he’s 5th in BA, 4th in OBP, 5th in SLG, 2nd in 2B, 3rd in RBI, 2nd in BB, 2nd in SB, 3rd in HR. Combine that with what I think is an impressive glove (there are 4 guys in the NL who have 7 or more errors, Frazier has 3).

        So sure he’s not what he was last year, but as far as NL Third Basemen go? He’s still pretty darn good.

        • @ToddAlmighty: Yep and would you be shocked if TF ended up with a .275/.340 /.600 line for the year? Say with 25 HRs and >85 RBIs. No other 3B in the NL Central would I’d rather have than Frazier. Yes, that includes Aramis Rameriz. TF is more than good enough, especially with a nice glove to go along with the bat. Yup, he was a disaster at the plate yesterday and he will have his share of games like that.

      • @EastCoastVibes: Is that true?Choo has played practically every game.I’d like to know how often other teams rest guys.Everyone here yelled until Votto got a game off.

        In terms of Frazier, he really hasn’t had that much rest lately, and he’s really not that good of a player.Yes, Hannahan is terrible.

        Uh, Frazier is among the 5 most productive 3b in the NL in almost every category in 2013 and has played near GG level defense.

      • Rest is overrated. These old time players must think these guys are a joke with the amount of days they get off. Rest helped out a lot last year when they choked against the Giants or in 2010 when the toothpick thought “rest” was more important than trying to improve you’re playoff seed. Rest got you facing Halladay Lee and Hamels in a 5 game series that year.

  5. In any case, Peralta is one of the worst pitchers in the league. There’s a big difference between Gallardo and Peralta.

  6. You gotta like your chances with Cueto on the mound but the fans in the stands should sue for malpractice with this lineup. That being said, the Reds will probably score 8 runs and make us all look bad.

  7. How is that the announcers know not to throw 1st pitch strikes to Gomez, but the players don’t?

    Management

  8. Well, let’s hope Cueto improves from that inning.

  9. FYI- The Reds/Brewers game is the free game on mlb.com t.v.

  10. With Robinson, Cozart, Votto, Hannihan and Hanigan slumping badly, where is the Reds offense going to come from?

  11. Welsh is completely wrong. He says Peralta’s problem is walks. He’s walking 3.6 per 9. Not great, but his real problem is only K’ing 5.2 per 9 to go along with that walk rate.

    Oh, yeah, and there is similarity with Cueto, he says. What?

  12. Does Cozart have a “no-steal” clause in his contract?

    • @Baseclogger: Runs like his shoes were nailed to the turf. Just doesn’t have the speed. At this point, is Choo the only regular with better than average speed. BP doesn’t look like he has the wheels he once possessed. Maybe Bruce but but who else?

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: This is the same guy who stole 30 in the minors. Same guy who keeps getting infield hits. Surely he can at least ATTEMPT a stolen base this season? Lutz has 2 steals. Frazier has 4. Votto has 2. Surely Cozart can at least try it ONCE.

        • @Baseclogger: Good points all. Maybe it’s because who is hitting behind him. He must run faster than he appears because it looks painful to me. But point taken.

  13. Now we hear Peralta is good at inducing DPs, but of course he’s had a zillion runners on, so…

  14. Boy if we don’t capitalize here, it will be a real disappointment. Thanks Rickie!

  15. Not the greatest bunt but I love the squeeze.

  16. Johnny Cueto is a ballplayer.

  17. Hooray for Dusty! Surprised the Brewers didn’t pitch out.

  18. Told ya, barrage of bunts baby. : )

  19. How bad is the Reds offense when it takes a walk, an error, a FC and a squeeze play by the worst hitter on the planet to get a run?

  20. That was possibly the ugliest manufactured unearned run I have seen.

    Walk, Error, Fielder’s Choice (should have been a DP), Eyes Closed Suicide Squeeze

  21. Looks like another good crowd at the old ball orchard.

  22. Was anyone else laughing hysterically as I was when they showed the X-Mo replay of Cueto’s bunt?

  23. don’t throw 1st pitch strike to Gomez

  24. did it anyway…sharp hit right to 3B

  25. Hannahan now leading the team in solo tackles.

  26. Masterpiece Theater, it ain’t, but this why JC is an ace,

  27. Looks like we are playing the Cubs.

  28. Both RBI in this game were groundouts to the pitcher.

  29. Bruce.

  30. I love what Bruce did there on 3-0. 2 outs, no one on, the pitcher was frustrated. Perfect time for look for a pitch to kill.

    It is always odd to talk about Bruce’s numbers during the season because of the hot and cold streaks but he is on now on pace for just below 30 HRs and is way ahead of his pace for career highs in doubles.

  31. Bruce needs a day off, that swing looked pretty darn good.

  32. Juan Pierre with a 2 run single. WLBs down 4-1 bottom 4.

  33. We are starting to see the Cardinals pitching come back to earth. The Marlins have beat up on it this weekend.

    4-1 Fish bottom 4.

    • @RedForever: They are due for it, a team can’t play any better. They were hitting like what, .365 with RISP and even higher with 2-outs and RISP.

      Reds just need to stay steady and shore up the bullpen. Let the Cards come back to the median and let the Pirates be the Pirates.

  34. Cozart is 2 for 2. Bruce won’t be the only guy getting a day off tomorrow.

  35. Cueto starting to look like Cueto.

  36. Nice hit Jack. Get him in guys.

  37. WTF! Bunting? What is the point?

    • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Okay – I get the point now.

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: It actually did make some sense. It would have given Robinson a chance to bring in the run with an infield hit, which is always a decent possibility with him. With a better hitting pitcher I’d have been against it, but with Cueto I think it made sense.

  38. WLBs down 6-1.

  39. Looks like the Reds will have to go to the bullpen. Let’s hope that isn’t a bad idea.

  40. Does Cingrani get the 7th?

  41. You folks who are claiming Todd Frazier is a good player this year, based on a top 5 OPS for qualified 3rd baseman…that’s misleading and in my mind incorrect. First, guys below him in OPS like Headley and Alvarez are either very close or ahead when you consider OPS+. Second, you are leaving out David Freese and Chris Johnson, who just barely don’t qualify because of some injuries or former platoons (though Johnson against righties isn’t much different from Frazier overall, and he kills lefties).

    There is no way on God’s green earth that Todd Frazier is a top 5 NL 3B. There are easily 5 guys I’d take ahead of him right now: Wright, Zimmerman, Freese, Sandoval, Headley. (And only Headley is comparable in stats.) Frazier is in the next group that includes Alvarez and Johnson, and I think Johnson leads that group.

    In terms of “gold glove defense”, people here say that every Reds player outside of LF and CF should be gold glove. There’s only one gold glove per position. I find it nearly impossible to believe that Frazier is the best fielding 3B in the league. What happens is that people watch only their favorite team and no one else (except for a few highlights) and conclude their guy is the best.

    Nothing wrong with Frazier, but he’s just not that good of a player.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: One man’s opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Sixth best 3B, in the NL, is still not chopped liver.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I think your problem is that you’re conflating true talent level with what a guy is doing this year.

      Do I think Frazier’s true talent level is a premier 3B? Probably not.

      However, through the first 70 or so games of this year, of all 3B with more than 50 PA, Frazier has saved the 6th most runs defensively and has the 8th highest WAR total.

      Now you can argue that those numbers aren’t valid if you want, but you can’t just accuse people of blind homerism and not knowing what they’re talking about. Those numbers are based on objective events in the games, and by those measures he’s in the top 3rd of 3B this year.

      So far this year at least.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Not to mention the cost, how much we are getting compared with how much we are spending. A small market’s pockets aren’t unlimited. I will take what Frazier is giving us. Would I take the other guys? Sure, but then who would come out?

  42. Nice hit by Hanigan. I don’t like Lutz here. You need someone to make contact. Lutz was a good matchup against a fastball pitcher (Peralta) with a guy on 1st and 2 outs. He is not the matchup with 1 out and guys on 2nd and 3rd IMO. Hopefully, he comes through. It would be nice to build this lead for the bullpen.

  43. Nothing like having the first guy off the bench sporting a .553 OPS playing in GABP.

  44. Big Lutz!!!!!

  45. Ok, NOW I see why Frazier wasn’t hitting in that situation.

  46. Swung at a bad ball and got a single. I’ll take it.

  47. Lutz belongs in the minors. I predict calls for him to start again after that hit.

  48. Marlins are starting to pile on. I like it.

  49. That was a bad ball called strike 3.

  50. Don’t look now guys but Dusty is making all the right calls today. Good for hum.

    • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: him not hum

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Lutz pinch hitting in that situation wasn’t the right call. It’s a call that happened to work out. You can flip a coin and some of those calls will be right.

        • @Baseclogger: Actually it “was” the right call as it was proven to be so. I rag on DB with the best of them but he is having a good game and I don’t see any harm in pointing it out. Doesn’t happen I’ll admit.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: I think Dusty is doing fine today but I disagree with the Lutz call in that situation. It is not exactly black and white, especially since it would have been a good situation to send him up against Peralta and a guy on 1st (when he was on deck). Hard to call him back in that situation and burn a player. And he came through, getting a huge two run single.

            Good to see Simon get out of that.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: If Lutz was the right call because he happened to get a hit, then I guess BP was the “wrong” call at second today. Thus the danger of using “did it work out” as a measure of whether a call was “right” or “wrong.”

          • @Baseclogger: Come on, I’m no way suggesting play Lutz in RF for instance. Now would I have pitch hit Lutz in that situation? Not before Mes, Fraz or Choo but it worked. Just like to give DB an attaboy at least once a year and that is my first for 2013. Just hope for all our sakes it isn’t the last.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: It’s the right call only in the cosmic “did it work?” sense. Logically it’s a poor call. Great for us that it worked out. I know what you’re saying though, we’re up big and the bullpen isn’t blowing it so let’s be nice to Dusty today.

          • @Mwv: Precisely. If he resorts to boneheaded moves tomorrow, we return to the status quo. I’d put the odds at 99.5% chance.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: I just don’t understand congratulating a manager in any way, shape, or form for making an illogical decision that happens to work out. If you’re going to do that, then it’s also fair to criticize him for every smart decision that doesn’t happen to work out. Neither one makes sense to me. If Izturis started every game this season, every once in a while that would seem like the “right” call. Would you give props to Baker on those 8 or 9 occasions over the course of the season?

          • @Baseclogger: It’s Fathers Day for goodness sakes. Is not Dusty a dad after all? I guess this beats bellyaching about which reliever is going to blow a 2-run lead in the 8th.

  51. Ruh, roe. There goes the bullpen.

  52. Nice job by Simon, exorcising those 8th inning demons!!!

  53. Simon can pitch 3 innings, but Chapman can never pitch 2 because he’s called the “closer.” Makes perfect sense, doesn’t it?

  54. One guy pitching the last three innings. I hope Baker is watching.

  55. JC is such a stud that when he pitches a great game, he doesn’t even get a mention on RLN.

  56. Game ball goes to Dusty Baker. There I said it. Have a great day all.

  57. Nice comeback game from yesterday. Excellent job by Cueto and Simon.

  58. “Simon can pitch 3 innings, but Chapman can never pitch 2 because he’s called the “closer.” Makes perfect sense, doesn’t it?”

    All pitchers are not the same. All arms are not the same. Simon and Chapman are not the same.

    • @Mutaman: Baker’s only argument has been “Chapman is my closer, and closers don’t pitch more than one inning.” Got nothing to do with arms.

      • @Baseclogger: Can I have a link to that statement? You quoted it but I can’t seem to find it.

        • @Mutaman: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/14/dusty-baker-will-not-use-aroldis-chapman-for-multi-inning-work/

          Not the exact quote but there’s a media source talking about Dusty not believing in a closer doing more than one inning. Point is that Dusty believes closers are for 3 outs.

          • @Mwv:

            Isn’t Dusty’s point really that he wants to be able to (in theory) use Chapman 3 days in a row if consecutive save situations present themselves. He is not as concerned about Simon being available tomorrow or the next day.

          • @CaptainTonyKW: Yeah, I’m afraid that’s his point. He’s more concerned about a hypothetical 3 run save situation two days from today than he is about nailing down today’s 1-run lead in the 8th inning. This hypothetical situation never actually seems to occur, but apparently it’s worth blowing several 8th inning leads just to be on the safe side. Because, of course, nobody else in the bullpen is capable of pitching the 9th inning with anything less than a 4 run lead.

          • @Mwv: There are
            “exact”quotes, there are paraphrases, and there is stuff you pick up on twitter. You don’t put quotes around anything that is not an exact quote.

            But I understand the mentality. Pitch Chapman, all the time. Its the NFL. Its a sprint not a marathon. And Baker’s stupid if he doesn’t do this. (That’s a paraphrase).

          • @Mutaman: I do put quotes around things that aren’t exact quotes. So apparently you’re wrong about that.

          • @Mutaman: I think you’re mistaking me for someone else. I’m not the one being emotional or snarky here. The other fellow pointed out that Dusty prefers closers to only pitch a single inning. He was correct. You then wanted a quote to that effect. You were being sarcastic of course but I just googled a bit and sure enough Dusty has been quoted in the media expressing those opinions.

            Then you decide to go with a straw man, implying that we want Chapman to be over-used. That isn’t the case at all from 90% of the folks here. We want Chapman used wisely. He’s the best arm on the team coming out of the pen. We want him used in the highest leverage situations as often as possible without damaging him.

            Is your contention that Dusty is doing this and we’re just bellyaching?

            Set aside the emotion and the attacks, I just want your honest opinion in comparison to others here. Is Dusty using Chapman wisely?

            If that’s how you feel then I understand an we just disagree, nothing wrong with that. Some friendly back and forth over the game we love is always fun.

  59. I was paraphrasing. Sometimes quotes aren’t meant to be taken literally. If you prefer an actual quote, here’s one:

    “I’m not going to use Chapman in the eighth. It’s too early. Something happens to Chapman, you’re stuck with the people everybody wants you to stay away from. The days of the eighth and ninth inning closers… that’s kind of by the wayside. ”

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130614/SPT04/306140201/

    Notice, what he didn’t say is “Chapman’s arm is different than Simon’s. Simon’s arm can handle three innings, but Chapman can’t handle two.” Notice he did NOT say that. Or even imply it. Or even hint at it.

    • @Baseclogger: My comment was meant for Mutaman, if that isn’t obvious.

      • @Baseclogger: You don’t put quotes around a paraphrase. English 101. The power to paraphrase is the power to spin.

        • @Mutaman: One thing they teach in writing classes is that it’s usually okay to break rules of grammar if the audience is able to understand what you’re trying to say. Apparently I overestimated my audience, and for that I humbly apologize.

    • @Baseclogger:

      “Notice, what he didn’t say is “Chapman’s arm is different than Simon’s.”

      I said it.

      • @Mutaman: It’s RFM with a new name. Awesome!

      • @Mutaman: Was “Baker is always right” already taken as a handle?

      • @Mutaman: I gather you’ve reached this conclusion by carefully studying all the instances in which Chapman pitched more than one inning? I’d love to see the data.

        • @Baseclogger:

          No i reached this conclusion by looking at Simon’s and Chapman’s birth cirtificates: Trust me, they are different people. That’s why the reds have to allocate two roster spots to them.

        • @Baseclogger: For what it’s worth, Chapman has appeared for more than one inning 18 times in his career. In those appearances he has not allowed an earned run, and has a 0.40 WHIP. Dude’s good.

  60. To say that Lutz was the right call is ridiculous. That means that the right call is completely dependent on the outcome.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Ah grasshopper, maybe a positive outcome is reliant on the right call.

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Maybe not. Lutz has a .462 OPS vs lefties. I just don’t see how that’s possibly the right call.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate: It worked, and really that’s all that matters. Good game for the good guys. After the ugly game yesterday, giving Todd the game off was a good call. People seemed to forget about the 3-5 hole hitters when questioning where the runs would come from.

          • @RisingRed: I didn’t say anything about Frazier sitting, anything about losing, those were other people.

            “It worked and that’s all that matters” is typical, I suppose. So if Baker had put up Chapman to hit and he gets a hit, I guess that would have been the right move, correct?

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Tomorrow’s box score will read (2) RBIs for Lutz. It was a correct move for that instance and that place. I don’t see how in the world it can be argued. Facts are facts; troublesome to many but they are what they are.

          • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Tomorrow’s box score will read (2) RBIs for Lutz.It was a correct move for that instance and that place.I don’t see how in the world it can be argued.Facts are facts; troublesome to many but they are what they are.

            So, if you are 50 yards away, 2 seconds left, 4 points down, with an All-Star QB and All-Star receiving core, and you decide to run the ball for a score, even if it works, that means running the ball would be a good call? That’s stretching it way too much for most the world. That simply means the team was fortunate enough for the play to work, that the team would win “in spite of” the coach’s decision, not “because of” the coach’s decision.

  61. Also, the idea that your best relief pitcher should be pitched an inning so that he can go three days in a row if necessary is stupid. I realize that many (most) managers subscribe to this, but it’s stupid.

    Take the Reds in 2012. They had 56 saves. Let’s just say that they blew 5 in the 9th or later. That’s 61 save opportunities, i.e., ones where you want your closer in the 9th under modern day managing.

    So the chance of a save opp in a given game is 61/162, which is about 38%. Then, multiplying this by itself two more times, you get a 5% chance of save opps 3 days in a row. I know there is a formula to figure out how many times you’d expect saves 3 days in a row to happen, but I don’t remember it. It’s got to be perhaps 2 or 3 times per season. (And, note that there is some chance that when it happens, there’s an off day somewhere in between.)

    This year, for example, Chapman has had that situation once so far. (And, it was invented by Baker because each game was a 3 run lead, AND there was an off day after the first save.)

    So, saving your stopper from going more than one inning just to allow your stopper to pitch 3 days in a row in save situations is a completely terrible use of your best reliever. For any team.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Here’s a question for ya: a) why don’t the reds develop good relievers? b) who was the last real good reliever the reds developed through the draft?

      • @zab1983: I’d say Lecure is good.

      • @zab1983: Scott Williamson. They pitched him the way some folks here advocate Champman ought to be used. He blew his arm out after one year and was never heard of again.

        • @Mutaman: Try looking at his baseball reference page. What you just wrote is a complete fabrication. Unless, I guess, you are merely trying to point out he had an arm injury and think that lying about everything else is ok.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: First off, kudos to Walt for sticking with Leake, who btw leads their starters in era so far this season. Not only is it working out well for the rotation, but the bullpen would be rather bad shape without Chapman. I get what Dusty is doing with Chapman and that is trying his best to make sure he will be available all season long and in the postseason.

      • @RisingRed: There is not one bit of evidence to support the idea that pitching fewer times but more innings each time is more injury risk than pitching lots of 1-inning stints.

      • @RisingRed:

        @Hank Aarons Teammate:First off, kudos to Walt for sticking with Leake, who btw leads their starters in era so far this season. Not only is it working out well for the rotation, but the bullpen would be rather bad shape without Chapman. I get what Dusty is doing with Chapman and that is trying his best to make sure he will be available all season long and in the postseason.

        But you don’t understand Dude, its the NFL. Its a sprint not a marathon. These guys are all the same. I know, I looked it up in a book at the library.

    • I realize that many (most) managers subscribe to this, but it’s stupid.

      Now on one hand we have jim Leyland, kirk Gibson, Terry Francona, Joe Girardi, Davey johnson, etc, etc. On the other hand we have “Hank Aaron’s Teammate”. Now who should the adjective “stupid” apply to?

      • @Mutaman: Maybe you should go back and look at your last lie about Scott Williamson. I’m sure you won’t respond.

        You really are obviously RedsFanMan, trying to get banned again I see with personal insults to other posters. Not much has changed.

        In terms of managers who won’t use their relievers more than one inning, yeah, it’s always clear that people who manage teams and who are general managers are correct. After all, nothing has changed in the last 30 years about the way they do business, right? And 30 years ago, you’d have called me “stupid” were I to have said that OBP was more important than BA, because, after all, most managers and general managers subscribed to the idea that BA was most important at that time.

        My point was strictly the following: if managers are pitching guys one inning only because they want their closer available 3 days in a row, that’s stupid because it almost never happens that you need a closer 3 days in a row. That point is not stupid, it is indisputable.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate:

          My friend you’ve been monopolising this site with your constant Baker bashing and your insults to others for too long. Its time somebody stood up to you. I’ll be checking in periodically. Guide yourself acordingly.

          • @Mutaman: Ya know, the reason Baker said the days of Fingers and Gossage have gone by the wayside is because Fingers and a Gossage actually did exist. And the reason we’ve heard of them is because they had really good careers even though they weren’t used the way Baker is using Chapman. Go figure.

          • @Mutaman: I was unaware that Hank had a monopoly. Can I buy stock?

          • @Mutaman: HAT’s not bad for a Cardinal fan. Pretty well harmless but outside of a very few, every Red is somehow below average in his view. If that is the case, than Dusty Baker is the greatest manager in Red’s’ history. He’s a plant so don’t let it get to you.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate: @Hank Aarons Teammate: Yeah, “Hank Aarons Teammate,” you are the one who keeps insulting people who do not hold your views. I guess I am stupid, along with nearly all the other practicing managers today because I hold the “stupid” opinion that “your best relief pitcher should be pitched an inning so that he can go three days in a row if necessary.” I’m with Mutaman; time to stand up to you.

          • @standage: With you but you got to understand that the hated Cards are HAT’s team. Just go through the Game Threads and Recaps. It use to get to me but ‘ve figured it out and just brush off his negativity. The Cardinals are about to be knocked from there lofty perch and he knows it and it makes him sad.

          • @standage: This site is filled with posters like him. I think it was Chad Dotson who a couple weeks ago said something like “99% of all Reds fans really don’t understand how great Joey Votto is”. Narcissistic statements like that makes me shake my head. I guess we are in the presence of some of the brightest, best, and enlightened baseball fans on this green earth. We are lucky to just be in your presence. 🙄

  62. Im not sure that Chapman would be best suited going 2 innings at time. In the past it seemed that when he would go multiple days in a row, he would loose some velocity on his fastball. So they may be limiting him to 1 inning to keep him at his best. The Reds organization(from GM to Manager) as a whole seem to agree with me. Why else would they spend the dough to keep Broxton? You don’t really need a setup guy if your closer can go 2 innings(I am curious as to which closers have consistently gone 2 innings this year).

    Also the point HankArronsTeammate about throwing more pitches doesn’t increase your injury risk. I disagree big time. While there may not be stats to back it up, I think its almost common sense. If you use something more(almost applies to anything), you have a greater chance of that thing breaking.

  63. Wow, Simon must be really mad at Baker right now. Apparently Baker doesn’t care about his health or long-term success.

  64. Wow, I’m a Cardinals fan now! I’m sure glad “we” won the World Series in 2011, I guess.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I just knew you would come out of the closet, sooner or later. Tell me that isn’t a load off your mind. It is okay, admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery. Praying for you.

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Thanks for the prayers. I have to admit that life would be easier as a Cards fan, what with their bunch of WS titles in my lifetime. But the thought of that is still kind of sickening, like being a Steelers fan, sure, you win a lot, but that team just makes me sick.

        I will admit there is one Cards player I like…the Carpenter kid. Seems to shut his mouth and play good ball. Then there’s the rest of those guys.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate: HAT, love you man but I ain’t buying. You have a very funny way of expressing yourself about a team “that makes you sick”. Better to be open about your devotion to one team than a traitor to another.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: You seriously think I like the Cardinals? I don’t have the time to troll a board.

            I’ve been a diehard fan of the Reds for an awfully long time. I was a fan when Wayne Krenchicki played 3B. When Brad Lesley was the closer. When Alan Knicely was great for about 3 weeks. Etc.

            Oh, yeah, and when the Reds won game 7 in 1975 and then killed the Yanks.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I can’t tell if all this is serious or not. HAT isn’t a Cards fan based on his posts here. There are many many many posts of his that talk about strengths of the team as well as his critiques of the weaknesses. He’s grouchy at times but he’s also really direct about what he finds fault with and usually backs it up with facts. Seems respectable to me.

      • @Mwv: We just differ in opinions Mwv. Honestly, I do believe he is a Cards fan. Look back, he can’t praise them enough. Ever see a Yanks fan talk so highly of the Sox? Or vice-versa? I’ll give the Cards their due if they win the WS. Until then, not on your life. Are the Cards a good team? You betcha but it is far from a certainty they are superior to Reds over a 162-game schedule. And being Reds’ fan, I say hell no they are not on the Reds’ level.

        • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Well, could just be different opinions then on what makes one a fan in the first place. Some people think it means to support the team positively no matter what happens. Other people think it means you follow them and ignore any bad thing that happens and focus only on the good. Other people get more into focusing on what could be improved, different choices you could make, etc. From my vantage he’s no less a Reds fan than anyone else around here. Some people are so negative that it gets to me at times but when I step back I realize it’s probably just disappointment speaking and not what they really think.

          • @Mwv: Sheesh, I’m not the one posting doom and gloom. I think this is an excellent Reds team. I’m frustrated with aspects of management and sometimes at Jocketty. Overall, Jocketty has done a really good job. I don’t like Baker, but I guess that disqualifies me as a fan. I’m not the one either saying he costs them 10 games per year because I know that’s untrue.

            I guess if you think the Cards are better it makes you a Cards fan. I do think they have a superior outfit, but also I’ve said that the Reds are up there, no one is as good overall as the Cards organization. It just is. I don’t like it, it just is.

          • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Nope, I’m with you on this one. I find your commentary fine though I did get a little irked the other day when you were leaving the short little comments that just stated Baker was an idiot. I happened to agree with you but I try pretty hard personally to just avoid the keyboard when Dusty makes me that frustrated. You’re getting a bum rap from a lot of these guys in my view. You are pretty fair down the middle on your negative/positive comments and the thing I like is that you back them up with stats.

            Keep on keeping on is what I say, these boards don’t suffer from your contributions. Now I’ll step down off my soap box and go out and finish mowing the lawn.

  65. “Ya know, the reason Baker said the days of Fingers and Gossage have gone by the wayside is because Fingers and a Gossage actually did exist. And the reason we’ve heard of them is because they had really good careers even though they weren’t used the way Baker is using Chapman. Go figure.”

    Did’t Chuck Bednarik used to go both ways? Boy is McCarthy stupid for not playing Rodgers at safety when hes not on offense.

    • @Mutaman: I keep hearing how baseball players used to take pride in not striking out, and now when they strike out it’s no big deal. Managers rarely complain about it. Guess that must mean it’s better to strike out more often, since, you know, it’s all the rage nowadays.

    • @Mutaman: As you probably know, it was La Russa who basically invented the concept of closers only being able to go one inning, and he did it for one and only one reason: he had a guy who’d pitched something like 12 seasons as a starter and he thought he could continue being successful if his innings were limited. This doesn’t apply to Chapman whatsoever. Other managers have mindlessly acted as if this concept must apply to everyone closing games, but this doesn’t automatically make it “smart.” One of the primary lessons of Moneyball is that just because most teams do X doesn’t mean X is actually the best way to win games. Managers often copy each other because it helps them deflect criticism (as illustrated by this discussion); it doesn’t mean they’re doing the right thing.

      • @Baseclogger: Don’t care about ‘Moneyball”. I saw Gossage pitch on numerous occassions. He had a rubber arm and he was strong as a horse. Chapman is not Goose Gossage. I’d like him around for the post season. You just don’t realize that its a 162 game season and athletes are not machines.

        • @Mutaman: Right. I’m sure if Chapman occasionally got four or five outs instead of three, he’d be completely unable to pitch by the end of the season. That would crank his inning total up from perhaps 70 to perhaps 75, and of course asking a pitcher to throw 75 innings would be ludicrous. Mariano Rivera pitched 107 innings his second year, and 17 years later he’s starting to experience some arm troubles. The correlation couldn’t be clearer.

          • @Mutaman: Right. I’m sure if Chapman occasionally got four or five outs instead of three, he’d be completely unable to pitch by the end of the season.

            The devil’s in the details. You don’t mean “Occasionally”, you mean “consistently”.

        • @Mutaman: Trevor Hoffman had seasons early in his career where he threw 90 innings, 88, and 81 innings. None of those seasons seems to have ruined his career. Lee Smith’s third year he threw 117 innings, followed by 103, 101, and 97.

          In fact, take a look at ANY closer who had a long successful career, and I think you’ll find seasons where they surpassed 75 innings. Chapman, at this rate, will never see 75 innings. What evidence is there to support this theory? Dusty Baker’s hunches, as far as I can tell.

          • @Mutaman: Trevor Hoffman had seasons early in his career where he threw 90 innings, 88, and 81 innings. None of those seasons seems to have ruined his career. Lee Smith’s third year he threw 117 innings, followed by 103, 101, and 97.

            In fact, take a look at ANY closer who had a long successful career, and I think you’ll find seasons where they surpassed 75 innings. Chapman, at this rate, will never see 75 innings. What evidence is there to support this theory? Dusty Baker’s hunches, as far as I can tell.

            Chapman piched 70 innings last year, despite losing time to a sore arm and was at close to 100% for the post season. Case closed.

  66. I guess this is one of those cases that closes when someone says something that doesn’t make any sense.

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About Chris Wilson

A simple Reds fan from a simple town. I have been a Reds fan all my life. The 1990 team was crowned Champions during my prime youth years and I grew up idolizing Chris Sabo all the way down to the flat top hair style and the #17. I have passed that love of the Reds down to my three boys who love the game and the Reds just as much as I do! Follow me on twitter @CoachWilson17

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2013 Reds, Game Thread

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