2013 Reds / Game Thread / Whiny Little B******

Game Thread: Cardinals at Reds (2013.06.09)

Rubber match between the Reds and Cards tonight.  While I don’t feel as if this game is a must win or anything, I sure would love to see the good guys take this series and do so on prime-time, national television.  It seems to me that over recent years the Reds have not fared to well in these games.  Let’s hope tonight is the start of a change for the Redlegs.

Bronson Arroyo takes to the mound tonight. The last time he faced the Cardinals he allowed 2 earned runs over 7 innings pitched, but picked up the loss.  I would love to see 7 innings of 2 run baseball from good Bronson tonight, just with a different end result.

So with that said, let’s hope tonight’s game is a good one.  Sit back, relax, pop some popcorn, get your favorite cold beverage by your side, and cheer on the Redlegs to beat the WLBs!  Because if the end of last night’s game tells us anything, these sure are some WLBs.

Go Reds!

507 thoughts on “Game Thread: Cardinals at Reds (2013.06.09)

  1. I hate to say this but the Reds deserve to get beat down tonight. The grand slam was fitting. As depressing as this game was there is still a long, long way to go in this season. I would not be surprised if the reverse happens when the Reds play the Cards again later this month. That’s Baseball.

    • @Sergeant2:

      Sorry, but no. We continue to live in a surreal world….matheny knew that he needed rosenthal for two innings because he needed to get into the 10th and the reds weren’t touching him. Dusty sees Chapman as 9th inning only, and even though the Cards weren’t touching him, doesn’t double switch and goes for Hoover. Hoover has been getting hit around a lot lately and it stands to reason that the cards 4,5,6 hitters were going to hit him as well. To think otherwise is just plan stupid.

      My point is the Reds match up talent-wise fairly evenly with the Cards and the games will be close making managerial decisions 1000 times more important. This is why the Reds struggle with good teams…more often than not, we are simple out managed in crucial in-game managerial decisions.

      • @abox03: I agree with you 100% on the Reds being out managed. Dusty is a living breathing example of the Peter Principle. Dusty would make an excellent 3rd base coach, and nothing more.

      • @abox03: Hoover didn’t get hit around. He wasn’t great, but he deserved much better. Obviously I agree with you about Chapman only pitching one inning (I said that at the start of the ninth). And yes, the Reds are going to get out-managed in close, crucial games more often than not because in-game management is not one of Baker’s strengths.

      • @abox03: I agrre. Plus, as I’ve written before, the Cardinals are always much more fundamentally sound. That really showed tonight – at least as far as the Reds being fundamentally unsound. I like how Orel H. put it one time on ESPN’s broadcast, “you just shake your head.”

    • @Sergeant2: Sargaent, after that statement you should be demoted to Private. As long as Dusty is associated with this team – they are doomed. I blame the Red’s owner for paying Dusty, Walt for being himself, the Reds press for not getting all over Dusty, the Reds coaches for being buffoons, and the Reds fans for thinking this team could really be any good with Dusty at the helm.

      Good night!

  2. All of you guys bashing Dusty as though this was entirely his fault are way off base. There were hitting failures, pitching failures, mental failures and plain bad luck. I didn’t agree with every decision Dusty made tonight, but let’s be fair about it.

    In the last inning, Hoover got hit with a lot of bad luck. The double was wind aided, the single was on a shattered bat, then a “single” that bounced over the pitcher’s head but there was no play. That’s all very unlucky. Hoover didn’t pitch great, but it wasn’t terrible, either.

    • @Steve Mancuso: I suppose that’s fair, Steve. But all the bunting, and for heaven’s sake, can we get a third-base coach who doesn’t look kinda lost out there? Those things are on Dusty.

      And then the out-and-out refusal to ever bring Chapman in for a four-out save, or let him go an extra inning once in a while.

      • @vegastypo: Arroyo bunted into a double play, not Dusty. D Rob bunted right back to the pitcher, not Dusty. The coaching failure at third base wasn’t Dusty. Sam LeCure grooved the pitch tonight, not Dusty.

        Yes, Baker made some of his own questionable decisions tonight, but to imply that all the blame falls on him is wrong. That’s all I was saying.

        • @Steve Mancuso: Bronson’s bunt, agreed. LeCure’s disaster, agreed. Heck, I was more worried about Broxton an inning later. And why was Arroyo bunting with two outs after he got whacked in the leg. Nothing Dusty could do about that stuff.

          And no, Dusty wasn’t actually AT third base coaching. But from what you’ve seen, shouldn’t somebody else be coaching third? Or is there nobody else available/capable to do so? I do kinda think that when Dusty has to say on national tv that his third-base coach failed to give a runner the sign to slide, that’s a problem that Dusty should correct. And we’ve all talked about the questions regarding Speier’s decision-making, that’s not a new topic. ……..

          Regarding Robinson, I don’t think he should have been bunting, frankly, so I’m looking at that more than how poorly he did it. Maybe he bunted on his own? It seems like something Dusty would do, though.

          Everything isn’t Dusty’s fault. This loss isn’t entirely Dusty’s fault, but geez, it seems like he makes it harder for his own team to succeed sometimes.

        • @Steve Mancuso: Steve, please re-read the comments on this board as this was definitely an all-around team effort(?)
          From the owner (For rehiring Dusty last fall)
          GM (for horrible trades – Didi would look great at SS – unlike Choo who looks like a clown in CF – watch D Span for how to play CF)
          Dusty (for being Dusty – an extremely poor coach in his decision making)
          coaches (poor communication)
          Reds fans – for believing the B.S. the local press around Cincinnati keeps eschewing

        • @Steve Mancuso: Steve, it’s the manager’s and coaches’ job to have the team fundamentally prepared (which the Reds definitely showed they are not ). As it is, I’ve coached baseball for years and if my team wasn’t executing – well, I felt it was on me to correct. To begin, the Red’s hitting approach is miserable (with the Cards so much more fundamentally sound than the Reds), Choo is a defensive liability in CF (as his market value continues to drop by the day – btw, Dexter Fowler is a lot, lot more fundamentally sound and faster and is hitting .304 10 HR for those who wondered about his upside as well as being 4 years younger), the Reds fail to execute the bunt, the players simply do not stay engaged in the game and lose their focus. That is the manager’s job and for what Dusty and Walt are getting paid, if the owner was engaged they’d be gone as they are performing at a very low level (more like high AAA).
          This team’s poor performance is on the manager and as long as the Reds have a fundamentally unsound manager, they will continue to beat the weaker teams and lose to the more fundamentally sound team as the Cards definitely showed they were in this series. All 3 games winnable by the Reds, and won only one. Add to that the finale ton the Cubs and Pirates series and you have a barely adequate management.

          Come playoff time – 1 and done. Nice record probalby which they can all talk about as the Braves and Cards play for the right to represent the NL in the World Series.

    • @Steve Mancuso: This team simply lacks focus as you detailed in your first paragraph.

      The Reds beat the bad and even mediocre teams because they are good enough to win despite their foibles.

      They struggle to compete against the good teams because of their foibles.

      I’ve largely been a support of Dusty Baker or at least avoided being a part of what I felt was largely over the top criticism of him based on game tactics. But the team lacking focus is a critical error in a realm that supposedly is in the heart of his strength. Something needs to change and sooner rather than later.

  3. John Fay just tweeted that the Reds bullpen has given up 223 runs in their last 18 1/3 innings!

  4. With the exception of Arroyo, Broxton and Chapman, pretty much every other player on the team contributed to this awful fiasco tonight. Should Dusty have kept Chapman in for another inning? Maybe. But it would have only delayed the onslaught until the 11th inning. The bullpen is killing this team and will continue to do so until Marshall is able to return.

    • @kywhi: I think they need more than Marshall coming back. Doubt they can get enough help to save the season. Many a good team has been done in by a bad pen.

  5. Until Dusty can get away of his prerequisite fantasy of what a team should be and assembled, nothing is going to change.

    The Reds will win games, probably more than most teams, because they have better talent and starters than most teams. But the more often you put subpar players in positions to come through, the more your team is penalized.

    i.e. Cozart getting more ABs than Votto, Phillips, Bruce, Frazier. Arguably the best reliever on the planet can only pitch one clean inning in a game where the Reds lead by 1-3 runs entering the 9th inning.

  6. The Reds made a ton of stupid plays tonight. But it is tough to come grips with the fact that Chapman only pitches one inning in pivotal game that goes to extras.

    Also I feel bad for the guy who got the grand slam. Tough way to start your career.

    • Dusty’s teams falter when it really matters.

      Not sure this is fair. Reds win their fair share of close games. And were up 2-0 in playoffs.

  7. The Cardinals continue to have the Reds number. Unless the Reds figure out something, the Cardinals will always either sweep the Reds, or win two out of three.

  8. You all have every right to criticize Dusty in this format, but the bottom line is that players play the game. I didn’t agree with all of Dusty’s decisions but last time I checked he never was in the batters box or on the mound or running down fly balls

  9. Last thing…Managers rarely go out and win games, and I am not suggesting that leaving Chapman in the 10th wouldn’t have meant a loss in the 11th. But, their job as Manager is to put the best available product on the field using numbers, stats, the eye-ball test, and game situations to get the best possible result. In NOT doing so, a manager can certainly LOSE you games or put the team in a position that makes winning even more difficult than it has to be. This is why I get frustrated with Dusty….everyone knows the best product in the 10th was Chapman…does he get 3 up, 3 down ? Who knows? But thats not Dusty’s main concern…his main concern is that Chapman, being the best option, is out on the mound.

  10. And Steve, LeCure groved what pitch? A decent CF would have easily made that catch w/o a problem in the 7th – ESPN announcers even noted that on their broadcast (that an adequate CF would have easily caught that drive – as Choo’s reaction time is low and he’s not that fast), instead Choo turned it into double that eventually led to the 2 tying runs. Stop making excuses for the Red’s boneheaded decisions and by golly stop drinking their kool-aid!

    Dexter Fowler would have caught that drive in the 7th w/o a sweat as it was definitely turned out to be a game changing play.

    Another of a plethora of extremely poor management decisions that will rear their ugly head against any decent team as the Reds are deficient in so many areas, least of all in their management.

    • @cincyreds14: I was talking about the pitch Carpenter hit to tie the game at 4-2 in the seventh inning. You’re referring to the ball Adams hit.

      You’ve got plenty to add here, but using derogatory names for Reds officials (aside from being juvenile) is not part of what this blog is about.

      You obviously have no idea what my opinion is on Choo playing CF. If you’re going to come on and attack what other people say, you should first be better informed.

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