2013 Reds / Reds - General

21 thoughts on “Quick Question

  1. No data at my fingertips…but I would guess Marshall by a significant margin.

  2. If you are talking about the whole career, I’m not 100% sure.

    But over the last 3 years, Hoover beats Leake and Marshall by a lot.

    • @CI3J: Not sure I follow this since Hoover has only pitched in the majors last year and this one. Marshall’s OPS-against was lower than Hoover’s in either of those years (albeit 2013 we’re talking about extremely small numbers that didn’t include today). If you add in Marshall’s 2011, which would cover the last three years, it’s even lower. 2010 and 2011 were Marshall’s best two seasons vs. RHP by far.

      • @Steve Mancuso:

        I’m really not sure what stats you are looking at, Steve.

        According to ESPN, Marshall’s OPS last year was .597, Hoover was .512.

        That was OVERALL.

        If you look at just right handed batters,

        Marshall was at .725.
        Hoover was .589.

        So, again, I’m not sure where you are getting your stats from….

  3. Are you sure you are looking at only right handed batters, Steve?

    Because, according to ESPN stats, over the last 3 years, the pitchers have these stats against right handed batters (In Hoover’s case, it’s only 2 years, but still…)

    Mike Leake: .268AVG .318OBP .438SLG .756OPS
    Sean Marshall: .245AVG .310OBP .319SLG .629OPS
    JJ Hoover: .196AVG .286OBP .304SLG .589OPS

    These are their stats, over the last 3 years, “Vs Right”.

    So yeah, from looking at just the last 3 years. (Don’t really know or care what Marshall could do 5 years ago), Hoover is the best against right handed hitters.

    • @Steve Mancuso:

      Ok, I see that now. But again, if you look at just last year, there was no doubt Hoover was better than Marshall over a full season. (Which I think is fair, since it was Hoover’s only full year.)

      Earlier you seemed to imply Marshall outpitched Hoover last year, and that simply was not the case.

  4. I’ve always been told to guess C when I don’t know the answer so…

    Actually I figured it was Marshall and I agree, he should have started the 8th

  5. I share Chad’s bewilderment/disconnection with Dusty’s apparent assessment of Sean Marshall, which completely underestimates Marshall’s big-time skill set. I’m not a Dusty hater, although he has major chinks in his armor, but I wonder if this relationship is tainted by Dusty’s previous–but exceptionally brief–experience w/Marshall.

    Dusty’s last year with the Cubs (2006)was also Marshall’s first big league season. Variously used as a spot-starter, mop-up guy and middle man, Marshall was 6-9 with a 5.59 ERA, a brutal 1.520 WHIP, just 77 SO and a whopping 20 HR and 132 H allowed in just 125.2 IP. Not even close to dominant, Marshall was–at the time–a palooka, a sad-sack tomato can.

    Clearly, his career took extraordinary arcs beyond that mediocre path since, but even if Dusty paid as much attention to stats as most of us stat geeks on line, he had an overriding vision of Sean Marshall as a punching bag.

    Sadly, despite Marshall’s simply devastating performances in 2010 and 2011 as one of the most effective, all-purpose relievers in all of baseball, when he returned to Dusty’s camp in the Reds’ fold, it seems that the best Dusty could muster up for Marshall was to give him (incredibly wrongly) the slot as the shut-down lefthander, which Marshall is definitely NOT.

    So, instead of welcoming a major artillery piece that should be wielded often and indiscriminately left OR right, this fine, finished agent of pitch-throwing excellence is somehow being used as a dainty, one- or two-batter delicacy that must be pulled if one of those rugged right-handed batters show up. I may be wrong, but I believe I see Marshall almost seething when he gets pulled after one or two at-bats or 8 or 10 pitches.

    This Redlegs bullpen is potentially so extraordinary that it makes me ache to see the unimaginative waste of it. Chapman worked best in the pen early last year when he was NOT the designated closer, but instead a flaming “Hammer of God” shutdown pig who could show up in any inning after the 6th. With Marshall, Chapman, LeCure, Hoover (and I like Arredondo) and more at hand, it could be devastating. Saves are a joke. Stopping scoring flare-ups is job one.

    I wish Dusty could see Sean Marshall as a long-ish solution (up to even three innings) and stop babying him. And use Chappy when he’s NEEDED, not when a save can be “earned.”

  6. In Hoover’s one full season (last year), he was better against right handed hitters than Marshall by a lot. (.725 for Marshall vs .589 for Hoover)

    I’m not denying Marshall is a good pitcher, but I think many of you underestimate just how much better Hoover was than him last year.

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