2013 Reds

Ryan Ludwick to have surgery tomorrow

The Reds have released this statement:

LF Ryan Ludwick will have surgery tomorrow to repair torn cartilage in his right shoulder. He will go on the 15-day disabled list, and a corresponding roster move will be made prior to tomorrow night’s game.

No mention of how long he’s expected to be out.

Lance McAlister is saying that John Fay is predicting either Denis Phipps or Derrick Robinson will be called up.

55 thoughts on “Ryan Ludwick to have surgery tomorrow

  1. I’d be real surprised if he is back before the All-star break.

    You have to think the Reds’ brass will be looking around for a replacement.

  2. I have to admit, I like the idea of making a big deal…trading Chapman for a hammer….they won’t do it, but I really like the idea.

    • @Bill Lack: They could get Soriano from the Cubs for nothing but his contract is prohibitive. He would look great in the middle of the lineup.

      I’m not sure who else is out there. I’m sure they will give at-bats to Heisey and Paul to start but I don’t think you can go all season with those 2.

    • @rightsaidred:

      It’s also disheartening because it won’t be Frazier or Hanigan moving into the #2 spot. Prepare to see Cozart make the #7 to #2 leap and a smattering of Izturis at the #2 spot. So much for the lineup being Dusty proof . . .

      This is it……exactly. God, how I hope I am wrong. To me the best 5 hitters ought to bat in the top five spots – in one order or another. Cozart is probably the 8th best hitter in a lineup with Hesiey or Paul. Plus……..Izzy getting probably 15 to 20 starts a year in the 2-hole. Man oh man how great did things appear at 4 pm yesterday.

      I have to admit, I like the idea of making a big deal…trading Chapman for a hammer….they won’t do it, but I really like the idea.

      Right on Brother Bill right on. If Ludwick is done for ’13, then they are going to have to make an adjustment. Don’t get me wrong, they could probably win the weak NL Central but I would have to rate the Nats, Dodgers & Giants as better clubs today and Atlanta as even. Plus Dusty is not going to out-manage anyone either so there is that too.

      Pretty gloomy day.

      • Don’t get me wrong, they could probably win the weak NL Central but I would have to rate the Nats, Dodgers & Giants

        @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Why do you call the Central a weak division? Moving the Astros to the ALW, the NLC had the second most wins in all of baseball last year, and have improved this winter.

        • @TC: Not top to bottom but just the top. Would you rather compete for a Division Crown against Giants/Dodgers, Nats/Braves, or Cards/Brewers? Maybe I’m buying the hype but the Reds seem to be in the right Division for 2013.

          • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: I think any way you look at it, the Central is pretty weak. The Dodgers are a sleeping giant just beginning to wake up, and Arizona is very talented & have a great mix of young players and veterans.

            The Cards, right now, are probably the weakest they’ve ever been in recent memory. But they have a great farm system that is just starting to get to the majors, so the Central will again be a two-headed monster shortly. The Brewers have kind of painted themselves in a box with a bare farm system so if they don’t do something soon, they’ll be hurting. Theo Epstein has the Cubs doing all the right things, but turning around a franchise like the cubs is like turning a cruise ship (hopefully, it’s like the Titanic 😆 )

    • @Bill Lack: I just don’t know how many of those deals are out there right now. I’m sure the Reds don’t want to take on a lot more salary, so who could they possibly get? (thoughts of cespedes or stanton are pipe dreams.)

      i think the reds will stick internally and if scoring is a problem look to make a deal at the deadline. jocketty always tries to improve the team during the season, but this is a weird time to have to fill a big hole.

    • @Bill Lack: I’m with you. I would send Chapman packing right now for Stanton (though it would take more than Chapman to get the deal done and it is just not going to happen). Willingham is a Ludwick-type player (with more power and worse defense). Moreover, he is signed through the end of next year and Walt would have to overpay. Is Manny still being Manny? . . .

  3. Fortunately, the Reds have room on the 40 man roster to make a move such as Fay hypothesizes, but there is only 1 available slot on the 40 man roster, so such a move would fill it up.

  4. Phipps or Robinson? Yuck. Loosing Ludwick really hurts the bench. Phipps was terrible in September and Robinson has never hit anywhere.

    Heisey has never done well when he has had extended time starting.

    • @RedForever: I don’t think having Derrick Robinson available to pinch hit is a significant downgrade from Chris Heisey and Xavier Paul. Losing Ludwick might hurt the offense overall, but I think the effect to the bench and pinch hitting will be negligible.

    • @RedForever: Heisey did fine last season when he’s had his only extended starting time with the big club, starting 32 of 42 games, batting 288/324. Heisey is no All-Star, but who is? Ludwick sure wasn’t, either.

      Given that, I am a Heisey fan, so I hope he starts and gets extended time. I think Baker will go with a platoon of Heisey and Paul. I do see a trade involving the relievers, but if for a LF, I would hope it would be for someone better than Ludwick, Heisey, and Paul.

      • @steveschoen:


        Given that, I am a Heisey fan, so I hope he starts and gets extended time.I think Baker will go with a platoon of Heisey and Paul.

        If this is true, don’t you see Dusty using Heisey vs LH (the worst choice) and Paul against RH (which Heisey hits better than LH)?

  5. I hate to be negative, but I wonder if we’re about to pay another “Dusty tax”. To satisfy Dusty’s demand for experience and right-handedness, Walt will be put under pressure to deal from a position of strength–the bullpen–to get a “run producer” to bat cleanup. Hoover for a washed-up right handed outfielder, anyone? Because there’s no way Frazier or Bruce could be used there.

  6. Sorry, Phipps was 3 for 10 in September. It was Negron who was terrible. I still don’t see Phipps as anything more than a warm body.

    • @RedForever: Never mind his hopes and aspirations, the hard work over many years, the blood and sweat and probably tears shed for the possibility of accomplishing his dream. He’s just a warm body.

      Sorry man, don’t take it personally. Just something about the phrase bothered me.

  7. If he’s going on the DL for months they can put him on the 60 day DL and clear up a roster spot that way. Instead they said he’s going on the 15 day DL – maybe that’s a reassuring sign.

    I’ll bet Walt Jocketty is having a busy day making phonecalls. Josh Willingham of the Twins is probably available also. If he wants to acquire a player he has plenty of flexibility – a corner outfielder, a centerfielder, or a thirdbasemen could be used to replace Ludwick.

  8. I don’t have the time now to do the math, but I think there’s an argument that losing Ludwick and replacing him with Heisey is not a big net loss: Heisey in CF and Choo in LF might be better than Ludwick in LF and Choo in CF.

    This assumes Choo’s CF defense is as bad as the scouts say it is (and some of the numbers suggest) and that Dusty plays Heisey in CF and Choo in LF.

    Not saying I’m glad Ludwick is injured, just that I don’t see this injury as that big of a deal in terms of wins and losses over the course of half of a season.

    • @per14: I think it all depends on how (and how much) Heisey is used. If he’s used to play everyday and hit second I think they’re in trouble. If he platoons hitting 7th or 8th I think he’ll be fine.

  9. What team has extra OF’s on their rosters???
    Oakland, Arizona, and Kansas City. I’d like to see the Reds obtain the Royals Lorenzo Cain. Had a huge spring. KC has two legit CF’s. Dyson is the other and had 30 SB’s in less than 300 AB’s. Move Choo to LF and eithe Choo or Phillips bat cleanup. Francouer could play LF and bat 4th, maybe. A solid defender, decent power from right side. K’s at the rate of Bruce though.
    Could also pry away Cespedes for LF and bat 4th from Oakland in a big deal. Aroldis could use a Cuban buddy. Could also form a huge tandem in a trade with Miami for Stanton. Now that would be a blockbuster deal.

  10. Bob Nightengale just tweeted that Ludwick will be out three months and should return right around June or July. He also said Derrick Robinson will be called up from Louisville.

    • @lukeukcrazy: I don’t think Bob Nightengale of USA Today has any inside knowledge. Everything I read seems to imply that they need to go in and perform the surgery before determining a timetable.

  11. I think we’ll stick with our limited in-house options.

    My prediction: this hurts us more than it should. While Dusty SHOULD just pull Frazier or Bruce up into the 4 hole, he frustrates us all by moving BP to the 4 hole and Cozart to the 2 hole.

    • @Stoph: I fear for more Cozart batting ahead of Votto as well. Although if Dusty keeps wanting to bunt Choo over, might as well have Cozart lose his AB instead of Phillips.

      • @dc937: I was thinking the exact same thing. I wonder if Dusty knows that Choo is more than capible of swiping a base too. He isn’t as good at it as Stubbs but he can steal 15-25 bases at a > 75% rate if given some chances.

    • @Stoph: Agreed. And herein lies the problem with Dustyproofing the lineup. Once the injury bug hits, the lineup shenanigans begin again. 1 game down, and we are at the mercy of Dusty’s antiquated lineup rationale. I agree, I think we’ll see Cozart 2/Phillips 4, which just sets this team back. At least we have Choo penciled into leadoff (right? he won’t change that, right?)

    • @Stoph: I’m opposed to letting Zack Cozart hit second, I think that’d be a bad decision. My concern, however, is more related to misuse of Brandon Phillips than a concern about Cozart.

      In his (short) career Cozart has now hit .324 with a .366 OBP in 136 ABs hitting second in the order. Not too shabby. That said, I want Phillips hitting 2nd and Frazier 4th.

  12. Per CTrent:

    Jocketty confirmed it is the labrum. Jockety is still deciding between “2 or 3 guys” for the roster spot. No decision has been made. Jocketty also said there’s no consideration to moving Choo to left field.

    • @Shchi Cossack: Leaving Choo is CF is the right call. As tempting as it may seem, there is no need to overhaul the team because of the injury when they already carried to other outfielders.

      2 – 3 seems a bit high unless Lutz is the dark horse #3 candidate . . . or if they are considering a move of Frazier to starting LF and recalling Donald to avoid losing him . . .

    • @lthedaug: If it looks like Ludwick is finished for the year, I give this a 50-50 shot. With even a better chance that Dusty make Rolen the start and Heisey, Paul & Frazier do a three-man platoon in LF.

      This whole situation has the makings of a disaster rather than an opportunity.

  13. The consensus that is forming seems to indicate that Ludwick will be out until at least July. That’s a lot of baseball season without the cleanup hitter in the lineup and even when he returns, his production could be severly limited.

  14. Brandon Phillips ‏@DatDudeBP 7m
    #WellAlright… It’s CRAZY how things can change after one day of baseball! New role. New teammate. Same MISSION. #UnfinishedBusiness

    Looks like BP will go to the cleanup spot (no surprise there).

    Don’t know who the new teammate is.

    • @RedForever: That is disheartening for two reasons.

      BP has less power and a lower OBP than either #5 or #6 in that lineup and last I checked it’s still the ‘cleanup’ spot in the order.

      It’s also disheartening because it won’t be Frazier or Hanigan moving into the #2 spot. Prepare to see Cozart make the #7 to #2 leap and a smattering of Izturis at the #2 spot. So much for the lineup being Dusty proof . . .

    • @RedForever: That sucks.

      I also think it’s silly how the Reds always keep these decisions so close while other people are tweeting away. Just go ahead and make the announcement.

  15. I can’t offer much to you all, but as an orthopedic physical therapist, I can tell you something of this injury and timetable to return. It is very possible Ludwick is done for the year, and at best will be baseball ready by August, more likely September. When a person dislocates their shoulder for the first time, the labrum almost by definition is torn. He should have full motion and decent strength in a couple months, but the difficulty will be the return of the final 10%, so it’s good he signed a two-year contract. I guess at the major league level you don’t tell players how to slide, but if you’re working with kids, feet first.

    • @vermilion red: Yeah, the problem with this isn’t just that he’ll be totally unable to play for a few months but that he’s not going to have any power when he does get back.

  16. just so everyone knows, robinson is a 25 year old minor league free agent with a career .645 OPS who put up a .668 OPS in AAA last year. he stole 23 bases in 32 attempts last year (72%).

    phipps is 27 and has a career .727 OPS but is coming off a bad year at AAA. below average power and average speed.

    i think some sort of platoon of heisey and paul would be fine, but i don’t understand keeping choo in center. heisey and paul are both better fielders, why not save the runs there? that alone probably makes up most of the offensive dropoff.

  17. Choo seems to me to be a pro’s pro type player, I don’t think he would gripe one bit on going to LF and it would probably not cause him much issue much if he doesn’t play CF for a bit and then has to go back at some later point.

    Got to say – CALL THE MARLINS- make them an offer for Stanton! Never know what might happen.

    • As much as I would like to see a bopper in the cleanup spot (via trade), it just doesn’t seem prudent. XP vs. RHP and Heisey vs. LHP may be the best we can hope for. Ugh . . . This makes me sick.

      • @Drew Mac: Heisey has historically maintained a reverse split, but last season Heisey migrated to a more conventional split and XP has a huge convention split. Last season Heisey had an .827 OPS vs LHP & XP had an .867 split against RHP, while Ludwick had an .877 OPS. A Heisey/XP platoon could be effective, but the kicker becomes how Dusty manages the platoon and how Dusty mananges the lineup.

        • @Shchi Cossack: Indeed, it does all come down to how Dusty manages it. I would be just fine with XP getting the balance of ABs against LHP. That way, Heisey would still be available in the late innings of most games. Of course, that does take one LH bat from the bench during these same late innings.

  18. Another thought just occured to me. Since Ludwick signed a multi-year deal, the Reds probably have insurance coverage for the contract. Unfortunately, the contract was heavily back-loaded, so this year’s contract was for only $2MM, while next year’s contract escalates to $8.5MM. Best laid plans of mice and men…

    • @Shchi Cossack: Great point. This means, of course, less salary latitude for an in-season deal. Wow, there really is no silver lining here, is there?

  19. Everyone would love to see Giancarlo Stanton in a Reds uniform, but honestly, how do those of you commenting about this believe it would happen? The Marlins would undoubtedly want a major package of players (think Chapman, Hamilton, Stephenson, and another minor-league bat–and actually, they may want more talent than the Reds even HAVE in the minors), and would probably try to extort even more given the Reds are clearly desperation buyers. Stanton’s a cheap, controlled player who 1) puts people in the seats, 2) still has upside, and 3) may be affordable into the next competitive years Miami has. They’ve basically got zero reason to do a deal.

  20. No matter how fun it is to dream, but their zero chance Reds make any moves to obtain a replacement for Ryan. But 100% chance you can add at least 30+ days to whatever date is given as his return….

  21. Looking for silver? Well… we DID manage to win a few games without Votto last year, so maybe this situation isn’t quite so impossible as it seems.

  22. Dusty won’t play Heisey regularly, even when the timing is obvious. Heisey will be traded before getting 75-80 pct of starts in LF. As a side note, though the two whiffs stank, Heisey’s catch and sac were solid. And, in his first AB, he got down to first in a hurry…maybe around 3.8. Look for Frazier and Paul in LF and Hanahan at 3B some. Go Reds!

  23. Luddy stepped up last year when Votto went down. Time for Joey & the rest to repay him for his services. Reds’ll be okay. Maybe this’ll wake up the bats (although one game, against a great pitching performance does not a slump make). I like Heisey, but wouldn’t object to some extended X. Paul starts. Loves me some of the X-Man. GO REDS!

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