2012’s final titanic struggle recap of the regular season at GABP….

FINAL
Milwaukee 1
Cincinnati 2

W: J. Broxton (3-1)
L: J. Axford (5-8)
BOX SCORE

THE GOOD
–Mat Latos, Mat Latos, Mat Latos.  Good grief.  Is he stepping up at the right time of the year or what?  How does The Trade look now?

–Jersey Todd.  He’s been slumpy lately.  That was good to see on many levels.

–Dioner Navarro.  Where do the Reds find these catchers?  Does Johnny Bench, the Patron Saint of Catching, have anything to do with it?

–The Bullpen.  As always.  Sean Marshall.  Money.  Jonathan Broxton.  Money.  Pitching.  It’s been the story of this season.  How fitting the home portion of the regular season should end this way.  Pitching and Todd.

THE BAD
–The disappearing offense.  Lots of mitigating circumstances.  It’s September.  Guys are grinding out the end of a long summer.  The revolving door lineup as call-ups play and regulars rest doesn’t help.  Perhaps batteries are just recharging.

THE UGLY
–Attendance.  23K.  55% of capacity.  I know.  It’s a day game.  School.  But really?  The last chance for many fans to see this special team in the flesh for 2012 and this is the best the fan base can do? 2,347,251 season attendance.  Second most in GABP’s history, behind the park’s inaugural season.  An average of 1600 more fans per game than the disappointing 2011 season.  300,000 more than 2010, when the Reds won the division.  Talk amongst yourselves.

 

NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–Reds just ended the Brew Crew’s season and probably just cemented St. Louis as the #2 WC.  Do you fear the Cardinals?

Today’s Titanic Comment:  BearcatNation –  at 3:12 pm:  How about a walk-off to end the home portion of the regular season?

Get well, Dusty.

 

Join the conversation! 100 Comments

  1. I wish this had been a night game. I can’t up and leave work to go watch the Redlegs; but if they had played it tonight I’d have been there. Other than the Chicago Little-Bear-Children, no one should close on a weekday. Just too hard to fill a ballpark.

    To the playoffs, GABP!

  2. It will take time for the attendence to pick up, If the Reds string together a couple solid seasons in a row, maybee they will get 3 miliion fans. the fact that it has gone up the way it has each of the last 2 yrs is a good sign. The weekday attendence left a lot to be desired C’MON MAN!!!!!!!!!

  3. Didn’t watch game, listened to last inning on radio. Just had a feeling a comeback was in order today. Marty was saying that Navarro’s AB was one of the finest for a Red this year, not that someone with the last name of Brennaman would EVER engage in hyperbole, but it did sounc impressive: Dioner continued to battle and was pulling Axford’s 96mph heater. I’m glad he’s on our bench. Good way to end the regular season, with a comeback walkoff victory. Go Reds!

  4. “The revolving door lineup as call-ups play and regulars rest doesn’t help.”

    Actually, the Reds have been playing lots of front-line guys the past few days, except for injury replacements.

    I also don’t understand the attendance part. It’s listed as “ugly,” but then it shows that all the trends are up fairly strongly.

  5. Ok I’ll say it…woooooo!

  6. I know its frustrating, but I firmly believe the attendance will come around. While they are a much larger market, Philadelphia was in the bottom 3 of MLB attendance back in the late 90s and early 00s because of years of frustration and lack of success. Now look at them. Reds won’t be able to do that but if you get sustained success (which is exactly what we are set up well for) then you can expect average attendance for a year to be in the 33,000-35,000 per game range. I really do believe that.

    This ownership has shown an investment in the team and fans through their actions and it will improve attendance, just a little bit slower than we would like.

  7. @Larry1980: 3 million (37,000 average) is too much to ask for. The only teams that reach that mark are in huge markets. The Reds actually do fairly well for their market size:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

  8. Broxton was just a beast today, even with the deck apparently stacked against him. What a spectacular aquisition, completely off the radar, by Uncle Walt.

    Sure will be nice to get Luddy back in the lineup but those upper leg injuries can be stubborn. I hope he can return for the series with the Birds and be at full go.

    Super Todd is a beast. His use during the playoffs could be key for the Reds success.

    Navarro can flat out hit again. The off season moves should be interesting.

  9. Love the title of the Titantic Struggle Recap by the way. Good stuff.

  10. I believe that Joel Luckhaupt or John Fay tweeted that this season had the highest attendance.

  11. We fear no one.

  12. Wouldn’t it be a shame to not be able to use Navarro’s bat in a playoff game in a similar situation because he’s your only back-up catcher? Mes really needs to be on the play off roster.

    What an absolutely great way to end the home regular season!

    On the attendance issue, as long as the Reds are a regional franchise, they are going to struggle for weekday attendance numbers in April, May, and September. My family attended 16 games this year with a 4.5 hour round trip for each one. There’s just no way that trip can happen during the school year during the week.

    • Reagansdaddy: Wouldn’t it be a shame to not be able to use Navarro’s bat in a playoff game in a similar situation because he’s your only back-up catcher?Mes really needs to be on the play off roster.

      Definitely.

  13. Am I the only one who finds it interesting that Reds mag’t prefer to be the No. 3 seed?

    Also, how important is Latos’s start next week against the Cards? He has never pitched well against them and a great outing is needed to get mo going into playing in the playoffs.

    How many innings should Cueto go Sunday vs. the Pirates?

    • Am I the only one who finds it interesting that Reds mag’t prefer to be the No. 3 seed?

      Also, how important is Latos’s start next week against the Cards?He has never pitched well against them and a great outing is needed to get mo going into playing in the playoffs.

      How many innings should Cueto go Sunday vs. the Pirates?

      This irritates me. Baseball is all percentages, if the home team does not gain a big advantage by batting last then I do not see why it makes a difference when Arroyo pitches in a 5 game series and they seem more preoccupied about setting that up.

      • @BloodyHo: If I’m not mistaken, the rule change they passed for this year to keep Melky from stealing the batting title was basically “no adding plate appearances to give a person enough to qualify.” So Joey can’t qualify for th OBP title.Which isnt so bad, because it’s not exactly as prestigious as winning the batting title; anyone who understands the value of OBP understands Votto has been awesome this year with or without him being credited with 502 PA.

        I don’t think they changed any rules related to Melky, he voluntarily removed his candidacy for the batting title.

        This irritates me. Baseball is all percentages, if the home team does not gain a big advantage by batting last then I do not see why it makes a difference when Arroyo pitches in a 5 game series and they seem more preoccupied about setting that up.

        Speier saying that he’s fine with the #3 seed is fine with me – it implies that nobody is going to be disappointed either way. If he says they want #1 and they finish #2… darn the Reds, not pulling off what Speier said they could! That’s an unnecessary mess with somebody needing to get blamed. Obama and Romney are both doing something similar now by downplaying expectations placed upon them for the upcoming presidential because the OTHER guy is the more experienced debater… if they do great, everyone’s happy – if they do worse, nobody gets surprised, the justification is already public knowledge.

        It’s worth recognizing that the Reds are 45-31 on the road, 50-31 at home. It’s not like they always lose in one situation and win in the other. West coast road trips, on the other hand, have a history of going badly for the Reds. This year the Reds impressed everyone by having a successful trip to the west coast mid-season but who knows if they can keep that up in San Francisco.

  14. First off, one of the BEST Recap Headlines I have ever read. Too funny (and true). Second, I dislike the Cardinals (very much) and would love nothing more than to see them denied the postseason altogether, but I don’t fear them. Or the Braves. But it’s a moot point anyways, we will be facing off against San Francisco. And I don’t fear them either (although I’d feel much better if SuperTodd, Bruce, Ludwick and the usual suspects really come alive in the next week and a half). Awesome win today though. GO REDS!

  15. I don’t fear the Cards. I fear any team with above average pitching. Unless something changes fast this is going to end up just like 2010 — inability to score and a quick exit from the postseason.

    • I don’t fear the Cards. I fear any team with above average pitching. Unless something changes fast this is going to end up just like 2010 — inability to score and a quick exit from the postseason.

      Completely disagree with this. We match up very well against all the likely postseason folks, at least on the NL side. You could make a case for Washington having our number but I discount that because both these teams are very different from when we met earlier in the year. Every other team we pitch better than. We have the very best bullpen and I believe the very best overall defense as well. All it takes for us to win games are a couple guys being hot that day. Latos has been nails, Cueto is Cueto. Bronson is a big if and so is Homer but you know what? Other teams have the same problem. They all have their 1-2 punch and then it’s anyone guess on a given night.

      Your exact comment could be made about every other team going into the playoffs and guess what? We are a team with above average pitching. People should fear us.

    • I don’t fear the Cards. I fear any team with above average pitching. Unless something changes fast this is going to end up just like 2010 — inability to score and a quick exit from the postseason.

      How did we do this season vs. the Mighty Giants pitching? Or the Mighty Braves pitching?

      • How did we do this season vs. the Mighty Giants pitching?Or the Mighty Braves pitching?

        Season series results:
        Reds vs. Bravos 5-1;
        Reds vs. Giants 4-3

      • How did we do this season vs. the Mighty Giants pitching?Or the Mighty Braves pitching?

        Just fine. But when you get into the playoffs it really doesn’t matter how you played in May or June. It matters how you’re playing in September and October. Any way you look at it, the Reds offense has been pretty bad for the last month.

        • Just fine. But when you get into the playoffs it really doesn’t matter how you played in May or June. It matters how you’re playing in September and October. Any way you look at it, the Reds offense has been pretty bad for the last month.

          I don’t believe the 90 team went into the playoffs on some hot strek, in fact didn’t they “back” into the division title and play basically .500 after the All Star break?

          To me the key lies with the pitching. IN SF we should be seeing Latos and Bronson in games 1 and 2, but for whatever reason the Reds have decided against that.

  16. @Mwv: My thoughts were pretty much the same as yours when I read the post you commented on. The Reds have the pitching to keep them in games this year; and anything can happen at the end. Today was proof or that. A very high powered team was fighting for their life in a game that essentially meant nothing to the Reds; yet, they hung close and eventually stole the game at the end.

  17. As a Reds fan the only thing that could have been satisfying today was if the opposition had been the WLB

  18. Attendance 1)For the Reds to draw close to 3 million, the Reds need to bring in fans from Tennessee, West Virginia, Indiana, and Northern Ohio. Tkis requires planning on the part of the fans for they can’t ever drop what they are doing to attend a reds game that night.

    2) the folks from Cplumbus to Louisville to Athens to near Indy have to step up their attendance.

    2) local fans did a great job supporting the team. Now we are being asked to spend hundreds, if not thousands of bucks for post season play. Please forgive this peasant for not skipping work and for not pulling my kids out of school to attend my 21rst game of the season.

    Today’s attendance reflects very well on the Greater Cincinnati area. To suggest otherwise reflects limited knowledge relating to whom the ticket buyers are, and, it irks me greatly when other folk chastise for not spending my money the way they want. Ithought that was what Congress was for, anyway.

    • it irks me greatly when other folk chastise for not spending my money the way they want.

      Where exactly were you chastised in the above? Just curious.

      Every time this subject arises, I see this type of defensive response, usually from good Reds fans who go to their fair share of games, and then some. Why do you think my remarks were directed at you?

      For the record, I am merely asking questions. I’m asking: where are the fans who don’t have kids in school? Where are the fans who have the discretionary income to make it down to the ball park. I was particularly wondering about today. About the many fans who haven’t been at the ball park much and who are unlikely to get inside GABP next month? Where were the fans for the two night games? This series was most folk’s last chance to see the Reds in person this year.

      This is turning into a historic season. It doesn’t get much better than this. And people just didn’t show.

      Does Cincinnati simply not have enough younger fans or single fans under 40 who want to spend their evenings at the ballpark? Are there just not enough empty nest fans around?

      You say local fans have done a great job supporting this team. I’d like to see some demographics on attendance. Because it looks to me like local fans just aren’t there. We shouldn’t have to depend on fans like one commenter (sorry, I’ve forgotten your name) who said the other day he’s made numerous 4.5 hour trips (both ways) to see the Reds. We need the fans who live within 45 minutes of the ballpark to be regular attendees.

      Cheap tickets are almost always available to games. You can bring your own food. You don’t have to raid your ATM to spend a night there if you simply want to partake of the simple joy of watching a major league baseball game.

      There don’t seem to be enough baseball fans who want to do that. And I wonder why.

      But, it’s not an attack on you, seat101.

    • How do you know where the Fans are coming from? There’s no possible way to know that. Im from the columbus area and i went to about a dozen games this year. No one was asking me where i came from.

      There’s absolutely no way you can say local fans did a great job of supporting this team. For all we know all the fans could have came from out of town to see them.

      And I also just bought playoff tickets for 40 bucks each. Not too bad.

      Attendance 1)For the Reds to draw close to 3 million, the Reds need to bring in fans from Tennessee, West Virginia, Indiana, and Northern Ohio. Tkis requires planning on the part of the fans for they can’t ever drop what they are doing to attend a reds game that night.2) the folks from Cplumbus to Louisville to Athens to near Indy have to step up their attendance.2) local fans did a great job supporting the team. Now we are being asked to spend hundreds, if not thousands of bucks for post season play. Please forgive this peasant for not skipping work and for not pulling my kids out of school to attend my 21rst game of the season.Today’s attendance reflects very well on the Greater Cincinnati area. To suggest otherwise reflects limited knowledge relating to whom the ticket buyers are, and, it irks me greatly when other folk chastise for not spending my money the way they want. Ithought that was what Congress was for, anyway.

  19. Who cares about attendance? We share a state with another MLB team. You will be limited with that fact.

  20. @seat101: I think there is a lot of validity in your observations about the attendance.

    However I would just say without making a value judgement about the differing philosophies, that in other parts of the nation the sanctity granted the school day and work day in this area is often not as deeply felt.

    Particularly for the last day of the home season in a season like this has been for the Reds, in those other areas I suspect many more parents might have taken the day off and gone to the game with their kids figuring the experience was likely to be more enlightening than anything that was going to happen at school that day.

    What I was really wondering is what the attendance would have been had the day been sunny and 70ish. I know up here Dayton way, steady rain was falling past the beginning of the game. I suspect there would have been a lot more kids, parents and adults of all ages on hand had the weather been better.

  21. Hi: I haven’t posted since early in the season, decided to drop in and see what was what. I think the Reds attendance at 2.3M is probably good enough. Pushing it for another 200,000 … just not worth the worry. I don’t get to the ballpark (way out of region) so I would hope that the fan experience is pleasant. Continue that and the crowds will keep coming. But 18K on a Thursday afternoon is decent in Cincy if the numbers are legit.

    Reds have always battled geography to draw fans and if you live 2 hours away and it looks like rain, you probably aren’t going to drive 100 miles to sit in the weather. If the had a roof, it would matter — for another $100M.

  22. @OhioJim: Good points. Weekday games, though, in Cincinnati, in my view, are rarely, unless you live/work downtown, spur of the moment decisions.

    Good weather always helps. And if this game had been vital, it would have been SRO.

  23. @Richard Fitch: It takes more than two winning seasons in three years to get the ballpark full again.

    Plain and simple. I have been to my fair share of games this year too.

  24. @Richard Fitch: i apologise. I overreacted. You did describe the attendance as ‘ugly’. I disagree. That is no reason to jump on you.

    I have some knowledge of Reds attendance patterns, dating from the 70’s to the 90’s. what I posted earlier was a distillation of that. The current Reds management, I read in the paper, has four categories for its attendees. I guess they are 1)Season ticket buyers, 2) people who mostly buy in advance, 3) impulse buyers) 4) folks who are given tickets.

    Obviously, people can be in more than one category.

    Lastly, it will take a bit of time for every cohort to come more often i think locals are ahead of the curve.

    • @Richard Fitch: i apologise. I overreacted. You did describe the attendance as ‘ugly’. I disagree. That is no reason to jump on you.

      I have some knowledge of Reds attendance patterns, dating from the 70′s to the 90′s. what I posted earlier was a distillation of that. The current Reds management, I read in the paper, has four categories for its attendees. I guess they are 1)Season ticket buyers, 2) people whomostly buy in advance, 3) impulse buyers) 4) folks who are given tickets.

      Obviously, people can be in more than one category.

      Lastly, it will take a bit of time for every cohort to come more ofteni think locals are ahead of the curve.

      Oh, no need to apologize to me. I wasn’t looking for that. I didn’t take it personally. And what I thought was UGLY was today’s attendance. And the attendance of the series as a whole. I don’t think the season’s attendance is ugly. Just not what is should be, IMO. We are often described as a great baseball town. I think it was said by both the national FOX folks and the ESPN folks when they were in town for the Dodger series. If that’s true, this series didn’t show it.

  25. On attendance: We live over three hours away, with that said, we have been over five times this season and was there Sunday night which was originally scheduled to start at 1pm. It was a great hassle because we had bought tickets about four weeks ago and then it got switched to a night game (MLB & ESPN’s doing). So the kids and wife couldn’t go because it was a school night and getting home at 3am was a no-go for them. I had to scrounge up a couple of buddies who could go and still was out two tickets. If I lived in Cincinnati I would go more often but when I go to a game it really is an all day affair. Go Redlegs! And thanks to Mr. Castellini for making it a class organization again.

  26. @rfay00: Why? Why does it take multiple winning seasons to get people down to watch a team who presently has made the case to be one of the best in the nation this year? All those fans can go back to not showing up when the 2008 season comes around again.

    What does that have to do with this year?

    I don’t buy the theory that great seasons like this one are held hostage to years of losing. The baseball season is long. Everyone has had plenty of time to evalute the product on the field and see it’s worth. By now, if you’re a baseball fan, you should have bought in. Nobody’s asking people to buy tickets three years down the road.

    We’re not talking about a full ballpark, either. I’m asking why aren’t there more fans LIKE YOU. Even the fair weather fan who only wants to go to see the home town win should have been willing to show up this year by August. 50-31 at home. A pretty good bet if you show up, you’ll see a victory, yeah? Where was the fair weather fan who only comes to those kind of games?

    There seem to be a core group of fans who go to a lot of games. Like you. Just not enough who will go to one or two. There’s a conclusion to be made from that.

  27. @Richard Fitch: I think the best answer is take small steps. You can’t expect a huge turn in a matter of months. If the Reds make a run this year, then I bet the amount of sell outs double for next year.

    Same with attendance, with a good run this year, the Reds will break a record for attendance next year. Many successful years in a row will bring in more fans. I mean, look at the teams who have been successful for many years like the Giants and Phillies, they sell out a ton of games.

    The Phillies started sucking this year and they had their first non sell out in a long time.

    I really do think winning and or losing will contribute to attendance.

  28. @Richard Fitch: I flew from Charlotte to see the first two games of the Dodger series and also had tickets for Sunday’s game too. Had to give the Sunday game tickets away because of the starting time change, I was traveling with my 14-year old nephew-school. Had the greatest time and the Reds run a world-class organization (top to bottom). Let’s face it the Reds are a small-market club and to really drive attendance way up, they will have to be the “in” thing to do in Cincy. From all the Reds’ gear I saw around town and conversations, the club is getting there. A World Championship would do more than anything else could. A winning club does wonders.

    I really believe the Reds should top 2-1/2 million, in attendance, next year. When Hamilton comes up, that will be a big boost too. Just as Chapman was last year.

    By the way, has anyone ever seen better care of the field than GABP grounds-crew? This tells us a lot about Mr. C’s commitment.

  29. I’ve been lurking on the site all year, and figure now is as good a time as any to offer some observations. I’m from Cincy but haven’t lived there in over a decade and have really gotten back into following the Reds the past few years, and this year especially since they’ve been such fun to watch/follow (I managed to make it to 4 games this year, which means I went to a game every time I was in town). Anyway, the thread about attendance has been pretty interesting to me, for a number of reasons:

    (1) Looking through the other boxscores of games, I found out that the Reds drew about 100k fans more than the Mets this year. Obviously, the Mets have had a less-than-inspiring year, but it’s still pretty amazing when you think about it.

    (2) @OhioJim: the idea of parents pulling kids out of school to attend today’s game “figuring the experience was likely to be more enlightening than anything that was going to happen at school that day” is frightening. It’s not that I disagree that a day at the ballpark might be more special than a day at school–in fact, it certainly can be. However, as an educator, this comment unsettles me and says a lot about the state of education in our country.

    (3) I’m really excited about the postseason, and regardless of how the team has been performing lately, this team undoubtedly has more talent, focus, and maturity than the 2010 team. Regardless of what happens in the playoffs, this team has lived up (and exceeded) expectations, I think.

    I just moved to Baltimore, and the environment is electric here. I can only hope for an Orioles-Reds WS.

  30. @CharlotteNCRedsFan: sorry I missed you. Good to see you posting. Don’t be a stranger.@Richard Fitch: Again, we are a great baseball town. Attendance is not the only criterion of judging this. Viewership and radio numbers are up. They are leading indicators. Attendance is a lagging indicator.

  31. Unless you are the Cubs, winning and winning consistently drives attendance. You win you get fans.

    BTW…whom do we root for in Nats vs Cards weekend series?

  32. @renbutler: I agree looking at the market 2.5-2.6 million is plausiable thats probably the best they could do. What kinda market is St.Louis? They always get 3 million fans.:-)

  33. Just out of curiousity any reds fans in Indianapolis what teams do u get Reds Cubs/White Sox or both just curious.

  34. @Larry1980: Do you mean, which teams claim Indianapolis in their territory?

    Reds, Cubs, and White Sox. We get all their games in the clear on FSN Cincinnati and CSN Chicago.

    Indy has long been Cubs territory, with the Reds a little bit behind. But I’m noticing a bit more of a shift toward the Reds in recent years. The White Sox don’t have much of a following at all.

  35. Just tallied up our tickets for the year. The wife and I went to 35 games this year. Up from around 30 last year. Maybe we’ll shoot for 40 next year.

    Maybe this isn’t the experience of others, but it seems like almost everyone I know at work and in my neighborhood at least has a passing interest in the Reds and many of them follow them and watch them on TV, at least.

    I think some people just need to be introduced to the ballpark experience and they’ll start going on a regular basis. I think group outings through work and other organizations can help build this. Ticket giveaways, etc. That’s how we got so into going to so many games. I won a pair of tickets a few years ago and we had a blast so we kept coming back.

    The Reds do a great job of making the experience great for the fans. The key for them is to just get as many people to the games as possible. For some people, that means free tickets, not just discounts.

  36. Attendance dropped off this week once the team had clinched. The three games vs. the Brewers were seen as essentially meaningless. Given the circumstances (a) threatening rain all day, (b) all kids are back in school so there were zero young people there today, (c) not playing for anything — I thought the crowd size was decent. It didn’t rain during the game, but it did about five minutes afterward and the forecast was spotty at best. The team got excellent crowds vs. the Dodgers over the weekend. Attacking the crowd size today is misplaced.

    I agree with those who said that it takes time to build up fan support in response to success. The Reds are getting there.

  37. Wanted to say a positive word about Jay Bruce’s AB in the ninth inning. After Frazier’s two-out heroics, it would have been easy for Bruce to go up to the plate looking for back-to-back. Instead, he took advantage of the shift (it was a relatively mild one) and swung for a single hit the other way. Turned out to be really important. Navarro’s AB against Axford was its own titanic struggle.

    • Steve M.: Wanted to say a positive word about Jay Bruce’s AB in the ninth inning. After Frazier’s two-out heroics, it would have been easy for Bruce to go up to the plate looking for back-to-back. Instead, he took advantage of the shift (it was a relatively mild one) and swung for a single hit the other way. Turned out to be really important. Navarro’s AB against Axford was its own titanic struggle.

      That was great stuff. After Frazier’s HR, I had a strong feeling the Reds would win it in the 9th.

  38. We’re going to miss Super Todd’s bat in the playoffs when he’s sitting on the bench. Hard to imagine the Reds ever deciding to not play Rolen, if he’s healthy. Same with Ludwick in LF.

    • Steve M.: We’re going to miss Super Todd’s bat in the playoffs when he’s sitting on the bench. Hard to imagine the Reds ever deciding to not play Rolen, if he’s healthy. Same with Ludwick in LF.

      We will miss Todd’s bat if he’s sitting on the bench, it’s a shame.
      We already miss Ludwick’s bat, he’s hopefully getting healthy and ready to go.

  39. Brandon Phillips is not a lead off hitter. He just doesn’t work counts or take walks enough. So when his batting average slumps over a short time, he has nothing to fall back on for getting on base.

    Zack Cozart isn’t a #2 hitter, either. He’s about what he’s going to be: a .250-.260 hitter. If he would walk more, to get his OBP up around .320 or .330, he’d be OK batting toward the top of the lineup. And maybe he’ll draw more walks next year. But thinking he was going to get on base more when he moved from #1 to #2 was just wishful thinking.

    In a short series, anything can happen – so my concern really isn’t for the postseason. It’s more about next year and my fear that Phillips-Cozart is something Dusty Baker has been looking forward to doing all year and couldn’t because of various injuries, but will be satisfied with that going beyond this season.

  40. @renbutler: I live in northwest Indiana its cubs/white sox. The funny thing about Northwest Indiana is that it used to be all Bears than the Colts got good and its becoming more evenly split.

  41. What % of the Reds fan base comes outside of the Cincinnati,Northern KY area?

  42. @MDredsfan: I’d love to see a WS of Reds-Orioles (repeat of 1970) or Reds-As (1972, 1990) or even Reds-Tigers (1940). The Tigers could be a little scary. Don’t care to face the Yankees again.

  43. The Reds might have a chance to knock the Cardinals out of the postseason, I would love to see that. After the Reds thrilling win yesterday, I hoped to hear about it on mlbnetwork radio as I was driving and got to hear Bowden and Casey Stern talk about the Cardinals for an hour. Stern bases his prediction of players’ and teams’ postseason performance entirely on their recent postseasons.

    They assumed Carpenter would be the Cards’ pitcher in a 1 game WC playoff scenario. A Cards reporter politely told them that was silly, that Carpenter’s 2 starts have been in spring training mode, that 3 guys would be ahead of him.

  44. The Pirates (76-80) have to win all 6 of their remaining games to finish the year with a winning record.

  45. I’ve been looking at historical attendance patterns (Reds & other teams) ever since people have been bitching about Reds attendence during the 2010 season. Unfortunately, I’ve never had the time to put words to paper and publish a post here. Maybe I’ll have that chance in the coming weeks or early this offseason.

    Anyways, you have to look at trends and increase in similar games over similar periods. You have to compare September 2012 to prior Septembers. Weekday games to weekday games. You also have to consider other factors like opponent and promotions. September has always had a huge attendance dip in Cincinnati. Last year, there was no weekday game (Mon – Thurs) with more than 24,000 after August 8. Prior to 2010, they were lucky to get into the upper teen-thousand on a weekday, and not all those season ticket holders physically showed up.

    Season ticket holders are a huge factor in attendance. Winning seasons create more season ticket holders. More season ticket holders decrease the supply of available seats. Advance ticket sales become less available for “choice” games (summer, weekend, select opponents.) The Reds had a number of sellouts this year. Demand is up. Folks want to come to a game, but options are becoming limited. Attendance at these games with 24,000 sold becomes 26-28,000 next year. All the summer games that sold 30,000 this year becomes 35,000 next year. The 35,000+ games are potential sellouts next year.

    I’ve gotten a little long-winded…my point is that you have to look at September to September numbers over a period of time. You can’t compare September to June/July and draw ANY meaningful conclusions from that.

  46. @WedgieSanders: Howdy. Where did you buy your tickets? That says a lot about where you are from. So does license plate monitoring. Your credit card tells a lot about you, too. In the 70’s and 80’s I was surveyed at the park, I assume randomly. Anyway, That may give you an idea how they know what they know.

  47. @seat101: great points. I agree.

  48. I find the complaints about attendance tiring.

    Attendance has improved each of the last 3 years, even with a disappointing season in 2011. The team set a ballpark record for sellouts, nearly broke the ballpark record for attendance, and TV ratings are #3 in baseball.

    Clearly the city is engaged, and barring a complete meltdown by the team next year, attendance will continue to improve.

  49. @Richard Fitch: I drove 100+ miles over 20 times this summer to watch this wonderful team perform. I have followed the Reds closely since 1961, through the good and bad years. Here are some answers . (1) This game was on a weekday work day (I am retired btw) (2) The game was on regional TV .. Reds TV ratings are thru the roof I hear Every Reds game was not on regional TV during the Big Red machine years.(3) Younger folks (20’s to 40’s) don’t love the game as they used to .. They do not have the patience to wait, hope for the potential dramatic ending those of us at the game received yesterday.(my opinion of course) (4) Cincinnati is simply not the baseball town that St.Louis or even Milwaukee is (attendance figures prove that) … Having said all of that I thought yesterday’s attendance of 23,000 was fine by Cincinnati standards for the last day of the season on a rainy weekday . For all of the effort ownership puts into this franchise … I am disappointed , but not surprised Cincinnati can’t even match Milwaukee in attendance. Hopefully that will improve. but I think 2,300,000 is about the max for Cincinnati

    • (4) Cincinnati is simply not the baseball town that St.Louis or even Milwaukee is (attendance figures prove that) … Having said all of that I thought yesterday’s attendance of 23,000 was fine by Cincinnati standards for the last day of the season on a rainy weekday . For all of the effort ownership puts into this franchise … I am disappointed , but not surprised Cincinnati can’t even match Milwaukee in attendance. Hopefully that will improve. but I think 2,300,000 is about the max for Cincinnati

      St. Louis is a larger market than Cincinnati and has frequent playoff appearances and two World Series in the past decade.

      Milwaukee has been competitive a little longer than Cincinnati. I also read an interesting article back when they traded for Greinke. They were 77-85 yet still made a big impact on season ticket sales by trading for a marquee player.

      Rick Schlesinger, the team’s executive vice president for business operations, said Tuesday that between Sunday afternoon and Monday night the team sold 1,100 new season-ticket packages.

      “Those are brand new account holders whom I’m convinced wouldn’t be buying if not for the current Greinke deal,” Schlesinger said.

      Coupled with a spike in sales for the team’s four-game holiday packs and a higher-than-expected renewal rate for existing season-ticket holders, the Brewers are enjoying a resurgence in interest after a rough 2010 season.

      “Since October of this year, we’ve had about 400 new accounts. You saw in 36 hours that we had more than double the number of new accounts sold. You have to attribute that to Zack Greinke,” Schlesinger said.

  50. What was Thom Brennaman getting so worked up about with Broxton yesterday? After Broxton pitched his way out of a jam HE CREATED, TB was bending over backwards with praise. I don’t get it.

    I also don’t get this quote from Speier: “You want to have the best roster you can,” acting manager Chris Speier said. “But you take in consideration the contribution people have made throughout the year and who deserves it. I’m sure the final roster, there won’t be too many surprises on that.”

    So….participating in the playoffs is some sort of participation award? What is this, tee ball?? I thought the goal was to put the best team on the field, and for me Didi>Valdez, Mez>Cairo, and Cingrani>Ondrusek/LeCure/Leake/Arredondo.

    • As far as the attendance for Thursday’s game, I think it’s worth recognizing that it was raining in the morning and looked all along like an ugly game. It started drizzling again after the game. That’s not a day I want to take off work to sit outside. I have no interest in going with that weather on any day of the week.

      I also don’t get this quote from Speier:“You want to have the best roster you can,” acting manager Chris Speier said. “But you take in consideration the contribution people have made throughout the year and who deserves it. I’m sure the final roster, there won’t be too many surprises on that.”

      So….participating in the playoffs is some sort of participation award?What is this, tee ball??I thought the goal was to put the best team on the field, and for me Didi>Valdez, Mez>Cairo, and Cingrani>Ondrusek/LeCure/Leake/Arredondo.

      I guess partially that means that guys like Cingrani (2 games, 4.2 innings pitched) and Gregorius (20 MLB at bats) haven’t proven themselves yet, and dumping playoff veterans who are respected in the clubhouse (Cairo, Valdez) to get those guys onto the roster wouldn’t be helpful. The team values leadership and chemistry on the bench, even if you don’t.

      Putting the best team on the field means playing the regulars, and guys you listed like Gregorius, Valdez, Mesoraco, and Cairo are all extra bench players. Ideally none of those guys would have to be used much in the playoffs with Hanigan/Navarro, Rolen/Frazier, and Xavier Paul around to pinch hit.

  51. I watched ESPNNews for nearly 2 hours last night. (More like stuck watching it.) It seemed like Baseball had more time than football. It may simply be a product of some close Wild Card chases, but I was happy to see baseball getting so much air time. Yes, yes, the Reds were not mentioned at all during the period in which I watched, but the As were brought up a lot. Sorry to see Jonny strike out for the last out in their loss to the Rangers yesterday make the news. Since it was an important game with critical implications (The As are teetering between winning the ALW and not making the postseason) it got a lot of play.

  52. I’d have to think this weekend is the final opportunity to rest guys who need it. I think Phillips falls into that category for sure, and it probably wouldn’t hurt to rest Bruce either. It would also be good to see the pitch count for our starters kept to 90 or less.

  53. @littleleo1: I’ll gently disagree that Milwaukee is a better baseball town. I live up by Chicago and attend games at Miller Park here and there. Much like the Cleveland Indians of the ’90s, Milwaukee has fallen in love with their team over the last couple years. But I suspect that as soon as the team starts to stink, the fans will peel away just as they did in Cleveland, and attendance will revert back to the mediocre numbers they’ve historically drawn.

  54. @Sultan of Swaff: Another factor is that playing in a stadium with a roof would make a huge difference on days like we had all this week with rain/threatening rain/chilly.

  55. @Steve Mancuso: Yup. That’s a huge advantage (roof) that the Brewers have. 81 games, rain or shine, it’s going to be nice in there. It’s so nice they’ve hosted the Tribe when they got snowed out.

  56. @Greg Dafler:

    In this economy, if attendance is trending up, that’s a good thing. I hope you are right about next year, but there are a few external factors that could really affect next years attendance. The fiscal financial cliff the country is facing in January is a looming nightmare. Will anybody have any money to spend on games next year?? Lots of things have to play out before the 2013 season, if there is one. 😥

  57. @Sultan of Swaff: I’m going to have to agree with Thom on this one. I had taped the game and watched it last night, but thought that inning and Broxton’s pitching out of trouble was the key to the game. If the Brewers lead gets larger than one run at that point the chances of a comeback become almost negligible. The jam was not of Broxton’s making – Jay Bruce (with a little help from Brandon Phillips) misplayed a pop-up in shallow right center that created a first and second none out jam. Stubbs was much too far away in center to get to the ball and it was too deep for any second baseman but Phillips to even think about reaching – it was Bruce’s ball all the way and he didn’t hustle to it. It’s always the outfielder’s responsibility to call off the infielder on a play like that and Bruce just didn’t do it. He is so talented in right I’m always surprised by little mental lapses like that but we’ve seen a few in the last month or so. I’m hoping someone on the coaching staff will show him the video and talk him through it – he’s too good to let that sort of thing happen. In any case, I thought Broxton did very well to get out of the inning with no runs scored. And that gave Super Todd a chance for some 9th inning magic.

  58. Somewhat related to attendance… I just got an email, and I don’t know if it’s verified or not, but it says Braun and Axford bought 5,000 tickets for the Brewers home series this weekend and are giving them away. That’s pretty classy.

  59. @CFD3000: My read on that play (without benefit of replay) was that Bruce was going to make the catch but got waved off by Phillips. I agree with your overall point, though, that Broxton didn’t do anything to deserve either base runner. Both were bloop hits.

  60. @Matt WI: It’s legit… it’s up on brewers.com for anyone in the area.

  61. @Steve Mancuso: You may be right Steve, but we’ve all been spoiled by Phillips’ talent and range. Everyone, including Bruce, expects him to catch everything. It’s still Bruce’s job to call of Phillips, not the other way around. I also realize that we’ve been spoiled all season by a stellar defensive team and I’m just nitpicking over a tough play in a game that the Reds actually won.

    • CFD3000: It’s still Bruce’s job to call of Phillips, not the other way around.

      I definitely agree. I wasn’t trying to exonerate Bruce completely. I didn’t think he misplayed it (again, I only got one look at it, so could easily be wrong).

      I’m a little testy when it comes to Brandon Phillips’ defense. He does make spectacular plays – frequently – although there have been noticeably fewer of them this year, possibly due to injury. But his hot-dogging does bother me at times. The needless bare-handed plays, the overly casual body language on some plays, the exaggerated body language on others – I get that it’s entertaining, and especially in games like yesterday when not a whole lot was on the line.

      I hope he fields with two hands in the postseason. And I think he will.

  62. @Matt WI: good point!

  63. @Sultan of Swaff: It’s clear what Speier meant about the postseason roster, and I don’t like the statement. It means Cairo is on the roster. Aside from there being multiple options for a better bat off the bench, this will limit the option of having Navarro pinch hit (if Mes were on the roster instead). This could obviously impact the outcome of a game.

    I hope I’m wrong about Cairo being on the postseason roster.

  64. @Steve Mancuso: I’m a big fan of BP and believe he’s the best defensive 2nd baseman is baseball, but agree with every word you say. And his style bothers a lot of people. I listen quite a bit to the radio broadcasts by other teams, and he is widely and intensely disliked, to the point of the Pirate broadcasters, for example, saying Barney of the Cubs (who was not at all impressive on defense when the Reds played them) should get the GG.

    BP explained his having more errors than some other 2nd basemen: “I make errors because of my range, the errors are on balls that others don’t get to.” He shouldn’t be making statements like that, and in any case it isn’t true. He’s made several errors this year because of going casual on routine plays.

    It’s the managers and coaches of course who vote on the GG, and I hope this doesn’t hurt him, he does deserve another one.

  65. @CFD3000: We have been spoiled by a stellar defensive team, I’m often shocked by watching the abysmal defense of a lot of playoff contending teams, now that I’m watching them more.

    But there is room for improvement. McCarver pointed out the other day that with Heisey, Stubbs and Bruce in the OF, the Reds have 3 CFers playing, and he raved about their speed and athleticism. I agree with him, but there are a fair number of pop ups that shouldn’t drop but do. I complained the other day about Heisey seeming to have mental lapses, but it’s also true about Bruce and even Stubbs.

  66. @dn4192: The 2010 team had a winning record every month except September, when they were a little under .500.

    I think we all agree that the 2012 Reds is a better team than the 2010 one.

  67. @TC: I’ve been watching a lot of late nite baseball on mlbnetowrk tv. I’m referring mainly to their switching around from game to game, catching the live action at big moments.

    It’s fun to see some old friends playing on contending teams. I too was sorry to see Gomes K for the last out, and felt worse when Adam Dunn – who’s done some serious heroics down the stretch – K’d for the last out of that game.

    Aside from them, also enjoy seeing Keppinger, Adam Rosales, even Dewayne Wise playing important roles on contending teams. Am I missing anyone ?

    • @TC: I’ve been watching a lot of late nite baseball on mlbnetowrk tv. I’m referring mainly to their switching around from game to game, catching the live action at big moments.

      It’s fun to see some old friends playing on contending teams. I too was sorry to see Gomes K for the last out, and felt worse when Adam Dunn – who’s done some serious heroics down the stretch – K’d for the last out of that game.

      Aside from them, also enjoy seeing Keppinger, Adam Rosales, even Dewayne Wise playing important roles on contending teams. Am I missing anyone ?

      Soft J… but other than that I think you’ve got it covered. 😉

  68. @redsfanman: I’m with you except for the inclusion of Cairo. He’s had a terrible season and there are better options. And has been said, without Mes, Hanigan/Navarro aren’t fully available to PH.

  69. @pinson343: I think part of the popups problem in GABP is that the outfielders really need to play pretty deep. A lot of balls that go to the wall are effectively catchable with a decent leap. So playing deep opens up a lot of green in front of the outfielders.

    This used to be the case in Denver till they humidor’ed the balls.

    But if you get burned in GABP, the ball rattles around a lot off that screwy scoreboard.

    Stubbs does a decent job going back on the ball. Bruce doesn’t. Heisey is vastly overrated as an outfielder. Ludwick is better going to the line, being a lefty. Paul is very ordinary in the OF.

    • @Johnu1:

      @pinson343:

      Stubbs does a decent job going back on the ball. Bruce doesn’t. Heisey is vastly overrated as an outfielder.

      Really? Stubbs goes back on balls that end up landing in front of him, so I guess he has a lot of practice ‘going back. Heisey is average/above average. And that is how he is rated. Not overrated.

      @Johnu1:

  70. I was looking at the league leader stats and came across the OBP leaders. Posey at .405 and McCutcheon at .403. I looked up Joey Votto’s OBP. Its at .475. Absolutely incredible. For a player to get on base nearly 50% of his plate appearances is unheard of. Glad he is on our side. And some people were advocating last season and off-season to trade him and keep Alonso for 1B. Whoa.

  71. I must agree that I prefer Alonso over yonder in San Diego…….

  72. @pinson343: @Johnu1: On outfielders…

    To my eyes, Stubbs reads and reacts simultaneously and continuously. Bruce is essentially the same as Stubbs but perhaps not as quick and certainly not as fleet of foot.

    On the other hand Heisey seems to read for a split second THEN react. I think some of Heisey’s questionable routes result from the fact that he doesn’t read as well on the fly as the other two and has trouble of getting “ahead” of the ball in his mind, if that makes sense.

    In the end there are any number of reasons why first rounders are first rounders and 17th rounders are 17th rounders. Heisey may be a hard worker and may be getting everything out of his abilities there is to get but just simply lack some innate skills the other two possess.

  73. @WVRedlegs: I’m convinced that one reason Joey Votto is playing every inning every game is to try and get close enough to that magic number of 502 plate appearances that he can take the 0fers required to make the number and still maybe still the batting title etc.

  74. @OhioJim: That should have been steal the batting title etc.

  75. I normally buy my tickets from stubhub… for the playoffs, my name wasn’t drawn so i just called ticketmaster and asked for th cheapest seats/best available. I was suprised it was only 40 bucks. I’ve never been to a playoff game so I’m pretty stoked. I was at the “play-in game” against the Mets but i was pretty young for that and it’s kind of a blur. I mostly remember fans running on the field and doing the YMCA. lol (yes i’m pretty young compared to most on this page)

  76. @WedgieSanders: Did you get a single for the playoff game? And which game are you going to?

    According to the TM web site, there’s NOTHING available for game 1, and only sporadic singles for games 2 and 3.

  77. @renbutler:
    If his ticket was $40, then it must have been a Standing Room Only ticket. A ticket in the last row of the upper deck was going for $58 on TM, and that was game #2.

  78. @WVRedlegs: Actually, the singles in the bleachers are $40 before fees.

  79. @OhioJim: If I did my math correctly, which I probably didn’t, I think if Joey didn’t take another PA this season, he’d still end up with a .426 OBP if you gave him o’fers to get to 502. If that’s right, that’s just amazing.

    121 H + 88 BB + 5 HBP = 214
    368 AB + 88 BB + 5 HBP +2 SF= 451…. 214/451= .475 (His current #’s)

    Add 51 more to the bottom number to represent hitless/walkless AB’s: 214/502= .426

  80. @Matt WI:
    @OhioJim:

    As long as Joey V is feeling good, I really expect him to play every game remaining in the regular season. That would leave him only 25 PA, more or less, short of 502. He is not only going to make a mockery of the OBP qualifiers, but he might very well come into play for the OPS qualifiers if he can continue to refine his power stroke. Unless he goes on an absolute hitting tear, the BA probably won’t come close even though he has a higher BA right now than any of the qualifiers. Factoring in an 0 for 25 will pound the BA pretty hard, but he should still finish among the league leaders in BA & SLG even with the 0 for 25 factored into his final results. I think Big Bob got a bargain and Joey V is happy too.

    If the Reds win both of the remaining series (2 of 3 for each series), they will finish with 98 wins. Savor that bouquet Reds fans…98 victories…

    I still contend that this team is 1 or 2 years away from plan completion and they could win 98 games this year with a serious push for a ring.

  81. @BloodyHo: If I’m not mistaken, the rule change they passed for this year to keep Melky from stealing the batting title was basically “no adding plate appearances to give a person enough to qualify.” So Joey can’t qualify for th OBP title. Which isnt so bad, because it’s not exactly as prestigious as winning the batting title; anyone who understands the value of OBP understands Votto has been awesome this year with or without him being credited with 502 PA.

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2012 Reds, Reds - General, Titanic Struggle Recap

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