Okay, ladies and gentlemen (and yes, even you, you coarse scallywag), it’s time. The Reds are going to the playoffs. For the Reds to be left out would be a collapse the likes of which baseball has never seen before (yes, I remember last year; this would be much,much worse). Over the next week and a bit, we’re going to periodically roll out a number of posts on the spots around which there are, or at least should be, some debate. Today, however, we’re going to tackle the spots we know will be covered. Before we get started, note that I’m assuming the Reds will go with 11 pitchers and 14 position players as they did in 2010. If they go 12 and 13, the picture changes a little.

Sure thing position players:

C – Ryan Hanigan
1B – Joey Votto
2B – Brandon Phillips
3B – Scott Rolen
SS – Zack Cozart
LF – Ryan Ludwick
CF – Drew Stubbs
RF – Jay Bruce
OF – Chris Heisey
UT – Todd Frazier

A few caveats here: If he decided to strikeout in every at bat between now and October, I suppose it’s conceivable Stubbs could be left off the roster, but I’m not betting on it. Additionally, if Rolen’s back locks up at the wrong time, the Reds would have to take him off the roster for at least a series given that he typically takes about a week (then length of a series) to recover from those bouts.

Sure thing pitchers:

SP1 – Johnny Cueto
SP2 – Mat Latos
SP3 – Bronson Arroyo

CL – Aroldis Chapman
RP – Jonathan Broxton
RP – Sean Marshall
RP – Alfredo Simon
RP – Jose Arredondo

I still can’t believe how good Simon has been. We were all ready to mutiny when he was brought in, and things certainly started poorly, but he’s been great for most of the season.

As things stand right now, 18 of 25 roster spots are spoken for. Yes, some others are also probably pretty well determined, but we’ll have some debates and discussions anyway, just for fun. By my count, we’ll still need to fill four bench spots, one starting pitcher spot, and two relief pitchers spots.

Jason has been a fan of the Reds since he was born. He really had no choice in the matter. He has been writing at Redleg Nation for a few years, and also writes and edits at The Hardball Times. His debut novel, When the Sparrow Sings, is available now and concerns baseball, among other things. You can find more information at jasonlinden.com.

Join the conversation! 126 Comments

  1. I don’t even want to play this game–it gets me too mad. The prospect of Cairo or Valdez (or both) even sniffing the postseason roster makes my blood boil.

    • I don’t even want to play this game–it gets me too mad. The prospect of Cairo or Valdez (or both) even sniffing the postseason roster makes my blood boil.

      I will never understand this view. Like it or not these guys played a role in this team being where it is at and not only deserve the right to be on the playoff roster, I don’t know how you screw with the chemistry and leave them off.

  2. Bench: XP, Navarro, Meso & here’s the won’t happen but should… Gregorius.

    Starting Pitcher: Bailey

    Relief Pitcher: Hoover & again here’s the won’t happen but should… Cingrani

    • Bench: XP, Navarro, Meso & here’s the won’t happen but should… Gregorius.

      Starting Pitcher: Bailey

      Relief Pitcher: Hoover & again here’s the won’t happen but should… Cingrani

      @BloodyHo: Ditto. 100%

  3. I also have one stipulation different from the original criteria. I do not take Arredondo and and I add LeCure to the bullpen, but leaving Arredondo off the post season roster also falls under the won’t happen designation.

  4. Xavier Paul

    Tony Cingrani (would be a nice addition, but like you said, doubtful)
    Billy Hamilton (also a nice addition, but based on our call-ups also doubtful)

    Homer Bailey (probably, especially if he pitches away from GABP.)

  5. Here’s why I’m not sure about Simon:

    – Simon’s primary usage has been as a long man. A playoff series has less need for that (only the top starters are starting, and more days off lets the short guys pitch more).
    – Plus, he’d be competing for “long man” with Leake or Bailey.
    – Dusty has shown a lot more faith in Sam LeCure lately, using him in high leverage situations.
    – In contrast, Simon’s leverage has been lowest on the team (other than Cingrani and Villareal).

    I think it’s quite possible that Walt/Dusty choose LeCure and Hoover over Simon. (Personally, I’d take all three over Mike Leake, but that’s a story for later in the week). But my point is that Simon’s spot is probably not carved in stone.

  6. Navarro and Paul are just about sure bets for the bench as far as I’m concerned. Navarro has drastically out-played Mesoraco in his time and also has the advantage of being a switch hitter. Paul has been our best PH since he’s been up and also provides a lefty bat.

    The other two bench spots are tough ones. My gut says the Reds will stick with Valdez and Cairo…and that makes me a bit queasy. I think Didi is proving his worth, and his glove is 2nd to none. I would definitely stick him on the roster. After that, I would take Cairo over Valdez just for the experience alone.

    Lecure and Hoover seemed to have earned spots out of the pen. I would also like to see Cingrani so Marshall doesn’t have to be used as a situational lefty. Of course that puts the Reds one over the limit if they also use a 4th starter. I honestly believe this will be the toughest debate of the roster. Because a valid argument could be made for Cingrani, Simon, Lecure, Hoover, Arredondo, and maybe even Ondrusek. But only 4 of those 6 will make it.

    Bailey has the be the 4th starter. The only issue is that he’ll make that start at GABP. Hope he’s focused and on his game.

  7. With his recent stints as a late inning guy, LeCure will get the nod. Bailey will get a nod as well. So we’re at 20. Hoover gets a go. 21.

    Bench: Cairo, Valdez, XP and Navarro. It’s just what will happen. Meso won’t get the call because he has less experience than the other guys. I can’t see Dusty leaving any of those guys off the roster. It just isn’t feasible. Any injury, Meso will get the nod. But that’s what’s going to happen. It isn’t much a debate, as there’s no way Dusty has used the lights out of Cairo and Valdez only to replace them in the postseason. Right or wrong, that isn’t Dusty’s style. And we’ve seen him protecting his guys over winning before.

  8. I like what I’ve seen out of Gregorius but keep in mind that he has only played SS in the minors, which makes him of limited utility on a post-season roster.

  9. @CaptainTonyKW: he played 2nd a few games in AAA. I’m not sure how many, but for the last few weeks, Valiaka went to 3rd, Henry Rodriguez to SS and Didi to 2nd.

    • He has played 4 games at 2B according to baseball reference. Valdez is likely to get the nod because he can play anwhere on the field in a pinch. Neither Valdez nor Didi would be in line for a start and Cozart is good enough that there is no need for a late inning defensive replacement.

      @hermanbates: he played 2nd a few games in AAA. I’m not sure how many, but for the last few weeks, Valiaka went to 3rd, Henry Rodriguez to SS and Didi to 2nd.

  10. How can you put Simon over LeCure out of the bullpen. LeCure has been money lately in clutch situations.

  11. X-Paul should have been on your list of sure things. No debate is needed. 11 for 30 pinch hitting and that’s not a sure thing?? Bailey is in as SP #4. Leake takes a bullpen spot and will have pinch-hitting and pinch-running duties. That probably bumps Simon. Hoover has earned a spot. LeCure is in. Ondrusek has no business on a post-season roster. Arredondo or Cingrani for last bullpen spot?? Depends on who is the opposing team and the need for another LH in the bullpen.

  12. @Chris Garber: I agree. I believe that Sam LeCure is the bullpen, and Simon is on the bubble.

    I also think Hoover should be a “sure thing” but given that he spent most of the season in AAA, the organization might have him in the “on the bubble” conversation.

  13. @CaptainTonyKW: I completely agree. Just made sure you were aware of his 4 games worth of experience ha.

  14. I would vote for Cairo over Valdez if Cozart is ok, but considering the defensive need (no backup SS) it will probably be reversed. I can only handle one of them. Please Walt, save us from Dusty.

    I don’t see a way Leake makes it. I’m probably in the minority, but would like to see Mes added to give him the experience plus free Navarro up for PH-ing. Mes could also PR in an emergency too.

  15. I agree with the above comments that LeCure is a sure thing and Simon is on the bubble. Also that XPaul is a sure thing. Also that Hoover would be a sure thing except for inexperience, which puts him on the bubble. I also think that Homer is a sure thing.

    I think the 14 position players are set, barring injury.
    They will include Valdez (backup SS) and Cairo. The other position players not listed will be Navarro and XPaul.

    Homer is either a 4th starter or long reliever, depending on the series. He’s too to good to leave off, and he pitched 2 excellent innings of relief against the Phils in the 2010 division series. Forget about the “slow to warm up” crap, that’s not relevant to short term post season use, where he can be given time to warm up.

    LeCure and Hoover, along with Marshall, have been used as the 8th inning guys with Broxton as the temporary closer. Hoover even got a save.
    Sam LeCure is absolutely positively a sure thing. He’s retired something like 17 straight hitters. Hoover would be a sure thing except for his lack of experience.

    Don’t count out Mike Leake, he can pitch relief.

    The Sure thing pitchers:

    1. Cueto
    2. Latos
    3. Arroyo
    4. Bailey

    5. Chapman
    6. Broxton
    7. Marshall
    8. LeCure
    9. Arredondo (lefty specialist)

    My guesses for the other two spots:
    Leake
    Hoover

    Ondrusek is still in the running. Simon has an outside chance.

  16. I also think they keep 11 pitchers and 14 batters.

    Starting Pitchers = Cueto, Arroyo, Latos, Bailey
    Bullpen Sure Things = Chapman, Broxton, Marshall
    Bullpen Bubble (keep 4) = Hoover, LeCure, Simon, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Leake

    Out of that group, I think Hoover has pitched well enough to have locked up a spot. A couple weeks ago I was kind of iffy on LeCure, but he has pitched lights out recently. Also, Dusty has been using him some pretty high-leverage spots, so it appears he will be on the roster as well. After that, I’m not sure. Based on performance, one would say Simon, but he is rarely used in anything but mop-up relief. Arredondo and Ondrusek have been somewhat disappointing. Leake has no experience coming out of the pen. If I had to guess, I’ll say the last two go to Arredondo and Ondrusek. If it was me, though, I’d keep Simon and Leake instead.

    Starting Batters = Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen, Hanigan, Bruce, Stubbs, Ludwick
    Bench Sure Things = Frazier, Heisey
    Bench Bubble (keep 4) = Paul, Navarro, Mesoraco, Valdez, Cairo

    I can’t see Gregorius having any shot to make it, unless Cozart’s back takes longer than expected to heal up. As for who will be on the bench, I think both Paul and Navarro make it as lefty pinch-hitters. I think if Navarro is going to be used to pinch-hit, Mesoraco makes it as a backup catcher. The last spot would then be between the two old men, and since Valdez can back up 2B and SS, he makes it over Cairo.

  17. Are we discussing what we think the best roster would be or what we think Dusty will do with the roster because they are completely different things.

    XP has clearly earned a spot on the roster, he has done nothing but perform since he got here. If you remember correctly the rally to come back from 6 down against the DBacks that started the big winning streak began with Xavier taking a walk in his first PA as a Red.

    Navarro is hitting really well, switch hits, veteraney-ness, etc.

    Gregorious because of his defense and because he’s proven he can handle a bat without embarrassing himself.

    As much as I hate to say it, Valdez because Dusty seems to have him “hitting lately”, and can even play CF in a pinch. I would leave Cairo off because he is less versatile than Valdez and (this is the main reason) I really really don’t want to see Miguel Cairo pinch running in the playoffs. Stubbs should only be used as a pinch runner and late-inning defensive replacement.

  18. I would add Paul to the lock category….and with how well he’s thrown and the way Baker used him lately, I’d probably add Hoover to that list.

    I would take Leake for his athleticism and versatility (pinch running, pinch hitting though in the playoffs, the latter shouldn’t be needed).

    I think the odd guy out will be Simon and hope that they take a 3rd catcher for more flexibility.

  19. @Chris Garber: Question related to Bailey vs Leake. Can Bailey get warmed up quickly enough to work out of the pen? Given Leake’s batting ability (granted, small sample size), would he get the nod over Bailey?

  20. Some have mentioned what they think Dusty will do with the roster, but won’t Walt be the one who sets the roster? I think Walt has a little better appreciation for performance, and less for a player’s veteran-ness.

    • @docmike:

      Some have mentioned what they think Dusty will do with the roster, but won’t Walt be the one who sets the roster? I think Walt has a little better appreciation for performance, and less for a player’s veteran-ness.

      Mike, now that comment may take this discussion in an entirely different vent. You are correct that Uncle Walt has the authority and responsibility for setting the roster, but I think there may be only three individuals who really know how that is done within the Reds hierarchy.

      Some of the very questionableable, albeit marginal, trades and aquisitions completed by the Reds recently (i.e. Valdez, Harris, Renteria, Lewis, Cabrera, Edmonds, Tavares) fit Mr. Baker’s modus operandi to a tee. The high number of such recent transactions seems to indicate that Uncle Walt and Mr. Baker have exactly the same opinion regarding such players or Uncle Walt defers to Mr. Baker’s desire when making such decisions since Mr. Baker must manage the players on a daily basis after the aquisition.

      • @docmike:

        Mike, now that comment may take this discussion in an entirely different vent.You are correct that Uncle Walt has the authority and responsibility for setting the roster, but I think there may be only three individuals who really know how that is done within the Reds hierarchy.

        Some of the very questionableable, albeit marginal, trades and aquisitions completed by the Reds recently (i.e. Valdez, Harris, Renteria, Lewis, Cabrera, Edmonds, Tavares) fit Mr. Baker’s modus operandi to a tee.The high number of such recent transactions seems to indicate that Uncle Walt and Mr. Baker have exactly the same opinion regarding such players or Uncle Walt defers to Mr. Baker’s desire when making such decisions since Mr. Baker must manage the players on a daily basis after the aquisition.

        I think there are instances where Walt has made decisions that would seem to go against Dusty’s wishes. Such as getting rid of Willie Harris earlier this year. Or cutting ties with Johnny Gomes last year. In this instance, we can only hope that Walt overrules any of Dusty’s crazy notions.

        • I think there are instances where Walt has made decisions that would seem to go against Dusty’s wishes. Such as getting rid of Willie Harris earlier this year. Or cutting ties with Johnny Gomes last year. In this instance, we can only hope that Walt overrules any of Dusty’s crazy notions.

          As much as I’ve criticized Dusty in the past, I’ll always wonder whether both Walt and Dusty’s hands were tied regarding Gomes, because of that bobblehead promotion. Gomes was released, what, two days after that promotion? … But your point is well taken, maybe Walt will see things a bit differently than what we would expect from Dusty.

        • I think there are instances where Walt has made decisions that would seem to go against Dusty’s wishes. Such as getting rid of Willie Harris earlier this year. Or cutting ties with Johnny Gomes last year. In this instance, we can only hope that Walt overrules any of Dusty’s crazy notions.

          That settels it then. Chris Speier is fired and Walt J will be Dusty’s new bench coach. No more bad decisions coming from the dugout. 😆

      • @docmike: Some of the very questionableable, albeit marginal, trades and aquisitions completed by the Reds recently (i.e. Valdez, Harris, Renteria, Lewis, Cabrera, Edmonds, Tavares) fit Mr. Baker’s modus operandi to a tee.

        When you say things like the above statement it sure seems like you’re blaming Dusty for those “bad” trades. And I believe a critizism like this is completely irrational so I have to think it comes from some other place. I have no problem with fair critizisms of Dusty but today he seems to be getting blamed for roster decisions and trades that we have no idea how much if any input he has on.

        • When you say things like the above statement it sure seems like you’re blaming Dusty for those “bad” trades.And I believe a critizism like this is completely irrational so I have to think it comes from some other place.I have no problem with fair critizisms of Dusty but today he seems to be getting blamed for roster decisions and trades that we have no idea how much if any input he has on.

          @Cbus: Where does he blame Dusty? Because those of us who actually read and don’t try to fit things to our agenda get what he’s saying. It’s pretty amusing when he said later in that exact comment (which you generously didn’t quote) that he thought Walt and Dusty must be of the same mind since Walt makes trades for the kinds of players Dusty likes. Good try, go troll elsewhere.

  21. @gmc43302:

    Leake would probably make the bullpen over Bailey, but it’s a moot point. Homer will be the 4th starter.

    • @gmc43302:

      Leake would probably make the bullpen over Bailey, but it’s a moot point.Homer will be the 4th starter.

      I agree that Homer will be the 4th starter in a 7 game series. In a 5 game series, not as certain, but he’s too good to leave off the roster. The “slow to warm up” thing isn’t such a big deal in the short run. Bailey pitched well in 2 innings of relief against the Phils in 2010.

  22. I’d add Paul and Navarro to the lock category. Two lefties off the bench, and with those two being the lefties, that makes Gregorious a no go for the playoffs.

    • I’d add Paul and Navarro to the lock category. Two lefties off the bench, and with those two being the lefties, that makes Gregorious a no go for the playoffs.

      Agreed.

  23. Navarro looks like a lock at this point. Switch-hitter, playing well, etc

    I would love to see Didi on the roster. The thought of Wilson Valdez (or Miguel Cairo for that matter) getting a meaningful postseason at-bat makes my spine tingle, but alas I don’t think this is going to happen.

    To me Hoover and Lecure should be locks.
    I’d also like to see Cingrani, but that seems incredibly unlikely.

    Leake is interesting. He won’t be starting a game obviously and the question I keep having with him is who would I rather have for one inning, or one out even? Leake or one of our other bullpen guys. I honestly think I would trust one of our bullpen guys more.

  24. Should be: Bailey, Hoover, LeCure, Leake, Paul, Navarro, Gregorius/Cairo

    Likely will be: Bailey, Hoover, LeCure, Cairo, Valdez, Paul, Navarro

    I think Leake should go because of his bat as much as his ability to pitch in relief.

    I’m actually ok with either Cairo or Gregorius. I can easily balance the experience vs. the glove.

    Does anyone else wish Corky Miller was up here right now?

  25. off topic, but nice to see some outside reinforcement for Frazier for ROY

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120916&content_id=38541298&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

  26. back on topic, I don’t quite see the need for Leake in a short series, unless Dusty is suddenly going to get creative with his use of players. I recall him using Leake to pinch run only once, and pinch hit two or three times?.. Meanwhile, we saw Dusty using Meso to pinch-run for Hanigan? Heck, even Cairo was used once or twice as a pinch runner, when Leake and/or Arroyo probably could have sufficed. And if the Reds are keeping only two catchers, you’re less likely to pinch run anyway??

    If we think we need a potential mop in a five-game series, that doesn’t strike me as having too much confidence in our starters….

  27. If Leake is not the starting pitcher, yet getting at-bats in a playoff game, then something went terribly wrong in that game. Leake has pinch hit 3 times this year, and just 8 times over his almost 3-year career. He’s 0-for-6 with 5 strikeouts and 2 walks.

    • If Leake is not the starting pitcher, yet getting at-bats in a playoff game, then something went terribly wrong in that game. Leake has pinch hit 3 times this year, and just 8 times over his almost 3-year career. He’s 0-for-6 with 5 strikeouts and 2 walks.

      that’s actually my fear…if you carry Leake, you can’t keep an extra hitter, and when two of your hitters are gonna be Cairo and Valdez, maybe you give extra weight to keeping a third catcher instead and having Navarro to pinch hit.

  28. @vegastypo: I put in my two cents above, but didn’t really separate the arguments for a short vs. long series. In a short series, Bailey is the long man. (I do regard Homer as a lock.)

    In a longer series, Bailey is the 4th starter and Leake is the long man. The Reds would go with Leake (and certainly with Homer) over Simon as the long man. And LeCure is no longer a long guy, he’s been promoted.

  29. @vegastypo: @Greg Dafler: No way that Leake makes a post-season roster as a pinch hitter/pinch runner. If he makes it at all, it’s as a long man. My guess is he’s the long man for a 7 game series, if the Reds get that far.

  30. @Swatch: I agree with everything you say (said the same above). But it will be Cairo, not Gregarius.

  31. @aweis09: I would trust Leake in relief more than Ondrusek, Arredondo, Simon. Not the others. It’s tougher being a starting pitcher, he’s a better pitcher than those guys.

  32. @pinson343:

    Even in a short series, Bailey is still the 4th starter. With the number of innings Cueto has logged this year, no way they pitch him on short rest in game 4 of the division series. That would also assume pitching your game 2 starter on short rest in game 5. I don’t see that happening.

    • @pinson343: Even in a short series, Bailey is still the 4th starter. With the number of innings Cueto has logged this year, no way they pitch him on short rest in game 4 of the division series. That would also assume pitching your game 2 starter on short rest in game 5. I don’t see that happening.

      I agree. Go with 4 starters. The hope would be to win the NLDS in 3-4 games and then start the NLCS with Cueto in game #1 there. If he were to pitch in a game #4 or #5 in the NLDS, he most likely wouldn’t be a go until game #2 or #3 in the NLCS. They’ll need Cueto to go games #1-4-7 in any 7 games series. Win it in 4 and hope the other DS games go to a game 5. There will be an extra day or two off there so hopefully it won’t matter. With Bailey’s home and away record showing he pitches better on the road, if the Reds open up the NLDS on the road in game #1 and #2, I’d be tempted to pitch Bailey in game #2.

      • I agree.Go with 4 starters. The hope would be to win the NLDS in 3-4 games and then start the NLCS with Cueto in game #1 there. If he were to pitch in a game #4 or #5 in the NLDS, he most likely wouldn’t be a go until game #2 or #3 in the NLCS.They’ll need Cueto to go games #1-4-7 in any 7 games series. Win it in 4 and hope the other DS games go to a game 5.There will be an extra day or two off there so hopefully it won’t matter.With Bailey’s home and away record showing he pitches better on the road, if the Reds open up the NLDS on the road in game #1 and #2, I’d be tempted to pitch Bailey in game #2.

        I’m glad you agree with me on using the fourth starter. But I think you use Bailey even in a long series too. In order for Cueto to pitch in games 1, 4, and 7, he would have to go on short rest twice, and I can’t see them letting him do that. He is showing signs of wearing down right now. If anything, the team needs to limit his workload, not increase it.

        • I’m glad you agree with me on using the fourth starter. But I think you use Bailey even in a long series too. In order for Cueto to pitch in games 1, 4, and 7, he would have to go on short rest twice, and I can’t see them letting him do that. He is showing signs of wearing down right now. If anything, the team needs to limit his workload, not increase it.

          I saw Chris’s schedule after I posted. I think you may be right. That’s too old school to have Cueto go games 1-4-7. Games 1 and 5 is probably right. And he is looking a bit worn. I am getting a little concerned about that too. I think once they clinch they will skip his next to last start and then have him make his scheduled last start as prep for the playoffs. Maybe we see Cingrani one more time, but as a starter.

          • I saw Chris’s schedule after I posted.I think you may be right.That’s too old school to have Cueto go games 1-4-7.Games 1 and 5 is probably right. And he is looking a bit worn.I am getting a little concerned about that too.I think once they clinch they will skip his next to last start and then have him make his scheduled last start as prep for the playoffs.Maybe we see Cingrani one more time, but as a starter.

            If we can clinch the LDS in 4 games or less, then I assume Cueto goes in games 1 and 5 of the LCS. If you have to use him in the deciding game of the LDS, then that pushes him Cueto back to games 3 and 7 of the LCS. Either way, he only starts 2 games in the 7 game series.

  33. @docmike: I agree with you, if they’re not sticking in extra off days for the 5 game playoff. I guess they’re not ? So I’ll simplify my statement: Bailey is the 4th starter, Leake in the pen. Actually, that was where I started (above).

  34. @docmike: We make similar overall statements. I don’t know if you saw mine. It was posted just before yours, but was awaiting moderation for a while. (As of now, appears just before your statement.)

  35. @docmike: On the matter of Valdez and Cairo on the postseason roster, I don’t think there’s a disagreement between WJ and Dusty. Valdez and Cairo were on the regular season roster largely because of their postseason experience. Despite a lack of production, they were kept on the active roster all season. By their thinking, it would make no sense at all to drop either off the postseason roster.

    • @docmike: On the matter of Valdez and Cairo on the postseason roster, I don’t think there’s a disagreement between WJ and Dusty.Valdez and Cairo were on the regular season roster largely because of their postseason experience.Despite a lack of production, they were kept on the active roster all season. By their thinking, it would make no sense at all to drop either off the postseason roster.

      I think you could (and hopefully will) see Walt make a decision contrary to what Dusty would want. I don’t think having Cairo and Valdez on the regular-season roster were unreasonable decisions by our GM. Cairo had a good year pinch-gitting last year, and Valdez offered versatility in the infield. But I would think (hope?) that Walt would not reward them with an automatic postseason spot based solely on what he expected they would do during this season, because neither of them has delivered.

      Still, I think that with the extra hitter on the postseason roster, we will see at least one of them make it. If they decide not to go with 3 catchers, then likely both of the old guys do. But I do think we end up keeping Mes, just so it frees up Navarro for pinch-hitting duty.

      • But I do think we end up keeping Mes, just so it frees up Navarro for pinch-hitting duty.

        Docmike: I hope so. Valdez will be on the postseason roster because he’s the backup SS. As I’ve said, I believe Cairo will be on the postseason roster too.
        But I hope, as you suggest, they have Mes on the roster and free up Navarro for pinch hitting. I really like him as a PHer.

  36. Valdez and Cario SHOULD NOT BE ON THE POST SEASON ROSTER!!!!!! Mike Leake should be on the playoff roster, his athleticisim makes him top valuable. Stubbs should not be starting any more games. Navarro and Paul have to be on because the Reds have so few left handed bats, They may have to look at starting Navarro a game or two with all their right handed bats.

  37. @vegastypo: You can carry Leake without losing a PHer. There will only be 11 pitchers, with or without Leake.

    • @vegastypo: You can carry Leake without losing a PHer. There will only be 11 pitchers, with or without Leake.

      I guess I agree with those above who think, at least for a 5-game series and knowing you’ll have a day off after Game 2, you could get by with 10 pitchers and give yourself more options off the bench.

      • I guess I agree with those above who think, at least for a 5-game series and knowing you’ll have a day off after Game 2, you could get by with 10 pitchers and give yourself more options off the bench.

        I don’t see that happening. They’ve played all year with 7 guys in the bullpen, I can’t imagine they would go into a playoff series short a pitcher. You already get one extra position player by dropping the 5th starter, so I don’t see any reason you would need another hitter.

  38. Wouldn’t be the only time a player has had a bobblehead promo that they weren’t on the team for. See: Giants OF Hunter Pence @ Phillies this year. 😛

    • Wouldn’t be the only time a player has had a bobblehead promo that they weren’t on the team for.See: Giants OF Hunter Pence @ Phillies this year.

      agreed. But the fact that he got released seemingly hours after the promotion was over makes me think he was there only for that event. but who knows?

  39. @Larry1980: Should’s got nothing to do with it. We’re talking about what the postseason roster will actually be. There will be a backup SS, he will be Valdez, not Gregarius. And Cairo will be on the bench. They’ve carried him all season just for this.

  40. FWIW, the Phillies left Cairo off their post-season roster in 2011.

    • @Chris Garber:

      FWIW, the Phillies left Cairo off their post-season roster in 2011.

      Could that be because Cairo was on the Reds’ roster in 2011?

      • Could that be because Cairo was on the Reds’ roster in 2011?

        Crap. Typo. 2009.

  41. @BloodyHo: So Dusty is to blame for all of Walt’s bad trades but Walt gets credit for all of the good trades? Man sometimes the Dusty bashing on this site is just to much. Dusty could win manager of the year and the world series this year and most people here would still give him no credit and call him an idiot. Hate to say it but I think he’s just got the wrong skin color for this town and some will never like him no matter what he accomplishes.

    • Dusty could win manager of the year and the world series this year and most people here would still give him no credit and call him an idiot.

      Straw man down!!! Straw man down!!!

    • @Cbus:

      So Dusty is to blame for all of Walt’s bad trades but Walt gets credit for all of the good trades? Man sometimes the Dusty bashing on this site is just to much. Dusty could win manager of the year and the world series this year and most people here would still give him no credit and call him an idiot.

      Cbus, since you directed your reply to me, I can only assume you were directing your judgements and criticisms at me, so I have no issue or problem responding directly to you.

      First, I will be the first to admit, and I do not appologize for thinking, Mr. Baker’s in-game management is shortsighted and inflexible.

      Second, my comparison said nothing about giving Mr. Jocketty ‘credit for all the good trades’ and Mr. Baker ‘the blame for for all the bad trades’. My point was that I believe only three poeple in Reds management (Mr. Castellini, Mr. Jocketty and Mr. Baker) know the exact dynamics of the innerworkings of their business relationship and management decisions.

      The high number of such recent transactions seems to indicate that Uncle Walt and Mr. Baker have exactly the same opinion regarding such players or Uncle Walt defers to Mr. Baker’s desire when making such decisions since Mr. Baker must manage the players on a daily basis after the aquisition.

      You can pretty clearly see, if you care to actually read the comment rather than just using your own shallow, biased interpretation, that this was an either or proposition and I made not comment on which way I thought the process actually worked. I don’t know what those dynamics are, but I admit that I would relish the opportunity to find out.

      Now to address the truly moronic, shallow, irreprehensible comment that you so ‘hate to say’.

      Hate to say it but I think he’s just got the wrong skin color for this town and some will never like him no matter what he accomplishes.

      My wife and my children, along with myself find such a baseless comment defenseless and objectionable at the very highest level. In deference to Chad and the very hard work he does to publish this sight I am trying very hard to temper my response. Cbus, you have NO idea what my background, ethics or morals may or may not entail and to make such a comment simply demonstrates what a small, shallow person you are and where such a bias probably does reside.

      • Cbus

        I will say, it does sound to me that you are overblowing Dusty’s effect in Walt’s decision making. Not to say that Dusty wouldn’t have an opinion in anything. As in, Walt asking Dusty, “What do you think we need?” Dusty, “We need another OF. Edmonds is available. I wouldn’t mind him on this team.” That’s probably the most I would think it would be. Walt makes the decisions on the trades. But, to consider he doesn’t consider other people’s opinions in making those trades is ridiculous.

        Now, in making the post season roster, I would think Dusty would have even more of an effect, maybe even to the point of him, Walt, and a couple of others in a meeting and coming to a concensus of who to take. But, it will be Walt’s “sign off” on who’s on the roster. Baker may very well have his opinion. But, if’s Walt’s say.

        Now, if Walt gives into Baker or not, we really cannot say. But, I will say this, Baker has only been to one WS and has a losing post season record, I believe 16-22, including 0-3 here. Baker doesn’t seem to me to be one I would look at much to make decisions on who to have on the roster.

    • Cbus

      Entirely uncalled for.

  42. Here’s the playoff schedule, which is relevant to issues of starters, relievers, etc.
    If everyone goes on full rest, and every series goes the distance, here’s how it would shake out. (The Reds have 5 full days off after the end of the regular season, so they’ll have full freedom to structure their rotation).

    If/when the schedule starts getting odd, they may be able to take advantage of Bronson’s ability to start on 3 days rest, and perhaps skip their 4th starter entirely.

    Assuming the Reds finish 2nd in the NL:
    Saturday – Game 1 @ SF (Cueto)
    Sunday – Game 2 @ SF (Latos)
    Monday – Off
    Tuesday – Game 3 @ Home (Bronson)
    Wednesday – Game 4 @ Home (Homer/Leake)
    Thursday – Game 5 @ Home (Cueto)

    Assuming they win that, the LCS goes to a 2-3-2 format, with the higher record playing games 1-2, 6-7:
    Friday – OFF
    Saturday – OFF
    Sunday – Game 1 (Latos assuming a 5-game NLDS. If not, then Cueto)
    Monday – Game 2 (Bronson)
    Tuesday – OFF
    Wednesday – Game 3 (Cueto)
    Thursday – Game 4 (Homer/Leake)
    Friday – Game 5 (Latos)
    Saturday – OFF
    Sunday – Game 6 (Bronson)
    Monday – Game 7 (Cueto)

    World Series (NL gets games 1-2, 6-7)
    Tuesday – OFF
    Wednesday – Game 1 (Latos)
    Thursday – Game 2 (Bronson)
    Friday – OFF
    Saturday – Game 3 (Cueto)
    Sunday – Game 4 (Homer/Leake)
    Monday – Game 5 (Latos)
    Tuesday – OFF
    Wednesday – Game 6 (Bronson)
    Thursday – Game 7 (Cueto)

    http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/ps.jsp

  43. I think Valdez and Cairo will both be on the roster. If they were good enough for the regular season because of their veteran leadership, they will be even more important in that capacity in the post-season.

    I don’t agree with that decision, but I do think it’s logical. If you believe that their intangibles have been helping the team win, which Walt and Dusty must to keep them on the team, then they become more valuable in high pressure situatins where lots of the young guys might be a little nervous.

  44. @BloodyHo: Well to be fair I’ve viewed other teams sites & all I know is the Manager takes a lot of criticism from their fans especially when a move or decision doesn’t work but rarely receives any kudos for when their moves or decision workout well & that had no bearing on the race or ethnic background of the Manager, maybe most on here are not giving Walt a pass but from the sample of post here today and on previous other days, It does sound like Walt gets all the credit for players who were signed & perform well, but Dusty gets all the blame for the players that are signed and perform bad. You can only mange the players you are given & when you have certain players who can play specific positions and your starters are hurt or need a rest you have to use what you have. I do believe Walt & Dusty consult on player acquisitions and releases so they both deserve blame and credit for the players and the winning.

    • Well to be fair I’ve viewed other teams sites & all I know is the Manager takes a lot of criticism from their fans especially when a move or decision doesn’t work but rarely receives any kudos for when their moves or decision workout well & that had no bearing on the race or ethnic background of the Manager, maybe most on here are not giving Walt a pass but from the sample of post here today and on previous other days, It does sound like Walt gets all the credit for players who were signed & perform well, but Dusty gets all the blame for the players that are signed and perform bad.

      Periods are good.

  45. So to me this all boils down to two questions.

    #1: Which extra position player do you trade for your 5th starter?

    #2: Now that rosters are expanded, which 7 relievers define “the bullpen?”

    For #1, I’m assuming that the current bench is Cairo, Valdez, Stubbs, Frazier, and Navarro. Leake is clearly the 5th starter, as he’s the only Reds pitcher with an ERA over 4.00, and it’s closer to 5.00.

    I like the idea of taking Mesoraco as the extra guy. It serves the purpose of freeing up Nararro for LH pinch hitting, and it gives the guy who (hopefully) will be a long term catcher some post-season experience. Also, I can’t really think of any other hitters I’m just dying to have on the bench.

    Question #2 is harder I think. Clearly Chapman, Broxton, and Marshall all are in, and I think you can throw LeCure in that list too. Those are the 4 guys whose peripheral stats match their ERAs pretty closely. Those are the 4 guys I really trust.

    I like Hoover a lot as a prospect, but I don’t really trust him yet. He’s got and ERA of 2, a FIP of 3, and and xFIP of 4. He gets very few groundballs but still has a crazy low HR rate. With so few innings, he’s one 3-run HR away from having a much worse ERA.

    Arredondo and Ondrusek have been getting it done with smoke and mirrors all year, and both have FIPs well over 4. Simon has better peripherals, but he’s been pitching against the bottoms of other teams orders and in low leverage situations all year.

    Then you have Cingrani, who’s untested to the extreme and doesn’t seem to have much in the way of secondary stuff, and Leake, who would really add much to the pen (except in an extra inning game) but does sort of deserve to be on the roster I think. Leake also does have better peripheral numbers than some of the relievers. He’s just pitched more innings so they’ve caught up with him.

    So I would go with Chapman, Brozton, Marshall, LeCure, Hoover, Arredondo, and Leake.

  46. @wally mo: I agree with your take on Arredondo & Ondrusek that’s why I would go with Simon over Arredondo no matter what

  47. @skatedog: For all those people who want to generalize about “this site,” just don’t. Just respond to specific posts that you agree or disagree with.

    There are way too many threads and conversations to try to get a handle on the opnion of the site as a whole, and you’re always going to offend someone when you try.

    On this particular topic, I remember several entire threads dedicated to criticizing Walt. Specifically, Walt has taken lots of grief here for his inability to get good OBP guys.

  48. @skatedog: Yeah, I could go either way on them. Simon has better peripheral numbers, but Arredondo has faced tougher competition in tighter games, so I give him some credit for that.

  49. @wally mo: Wait, I totally miscounted, damn. I left out XP. I would take him over Mesoraco, sorry kid.

  50. @Cbus: Are youa moby?

  51. @Chris Garber: Re: postseason rotation, it looks like they are sandwiching Arroyo between Cueto and Latos:

    The Reds flip-flopped the rotation. Instead of Mike Leake, Homer Bailey, Bronson Arroyo, Johnny Cueto and Mat Latos, it’s now Bailey, Leake, Cueto, Arroyo and Latos.

    The reason is to separate Cueto and Latos, who have similar repertoires, with Arroyo.

    “We’ve been wanting to do it forever,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “We couldn’t do it until now because we didn’t have the off days.”

  52. @Greg Dafler: No surprise there. Dusty wouldn’t put two “hard throwers” in a row.

  53. Bench: Xavier Paul, Wilson Valdez(for bunting purposes only) Navarro, Cairo (I guess, can’t deside between him and Meso)

    SP: Bailey, but i would still keep Leake on the Roster for pinch runner/hitter in case of a long inning game.

    RP: Sam LeCure is a lock. Not sure on the rest.

  54. Long man in the bullpen. Bronson Arroyo. He can come back with little rest. Also if Bailey is the 3rd starter and struggles Arroyo comes in. There will be a short leash on these pitchers and you need guys who can pitch more than 1 inning if need be.

    Mesoraco has played himself off the roster. He catches and didn’t hit all year long. Didn’t do much in a pinch hitting role either.

    If Cingrini continues to pitch like he does don’t be surpirsed if he sees some action. May not be all three sets of series but depending on match up. The Reds can use another lefty in the pen. Arredondo doesn’t count.

    • Mesoraco has played himself off the roster. He catches and didn’t hit all year long. Didn’t do much in a pinch hitting role either.

      If Cingrini continues to pitch like he does don’t be surpirsed if he sees some action. May not be all three sets of series but depending on match up. The Reds can use another lefty in the pen. Arredondo doesn’t count.

      I’m not saying that Mes should be on the playoff roster over Navarro but to say he didn’t do much in a pinch hitting role is a bit unfair. His stats as a “sub” from baseball-reference. .600/.600/.600 in five(FIVE!) AB’s. Now not all of those are pinch hitting but he’s never had the pinch hitting role.

      If the Reds get matched up with the Phillies I would expect to see Cingrani on the roster. We’ll need every lefty pitcher we can get.

  55. @Greg Dafler: Interesting. It doesn’t matter in the 19 game scenario I laid out, but I’d prefer to have Latos get more starts than Bronson, all things being equal.

    • @Greg Dafler: Interesting.It doesn’t matter in the 19 game scenario I laid out, but I’d prefer to have Latos get more starts than Bronson, all things being equal.

      I really hate the idea that Latos is #3 and Arroyo #2. I’m not even convinced Arroyo should be starting. If he does, I like him at #4. The “separate Cueto and Latos” idea doesn’t do anything for me.

      • I really hate the idea that Latos is #3 and Arroyo #2. I’m not even convinced Arroyo should be starting. If he does, I like him at #4. The “separate Cueto and Latos” idea doesn’t do anything for me.

        It is better to have Bronson pitch in SF then in Cincy, bigger ballpark will suit him much better.

      • I’m not even convinced Arroyo should be starting.

        @Hank Aarons Teammate: Really?! That’s interesting.

  56. Since we are pretty much set that we are playing the Giants, and with how Cueto has pitched so far this month and such, I am not sure why he gets the “nod” as the Game 1 starter, if your goal is to “win” and play the best players, would you not go with Latos in game one given how he is performing NOW and his track record vs. the Giants and the importance of getting game 1 and putting away the horror of 2010’s game 1. I think it would then be smart go with either Bronson or Homer in game two as both are much better in bigger parks/on the road. Then let Cueto go in Game 3 here at home and that way you have Latos able to go in 2 games if needed.

    • Since we are pretty much set that we are playing the Giants, and with how Cueto has pitched so far this month and such, I am not sure why he gets the “nod” as the Game 1 starter, if your goal is to “win” and play the best players, would you not go with Latos in game one given how he is performing NOW and his track record vs. the Giants and the importance of getting game 1 and putting away the horror of 2010′s game 1.

      What does it mean to “win”?

  57. @SirRibShack: Name a bunch of bad players and say Dusty likes these kind of players and Walt does too or Dusty likes these players and Walt doesn’t but he goes and gets them anyway. Either way it’s a shot at Dusty Baker liking bad veterans even though he’s never been a GM and yet he gets blamed for roster moves and bad trades constantly by many commenters on this site.

    I’ve never heard anyway say man I’m glad Dusty likes good pitchers and told Walt to go get Latos and Broxton. But I hear all the time that Paterson, Taveras, Harris, Valdez etc were all Dusty’s idea.

    To BloodyHo, you’re right I know nothing about you and have no idea if you’re racist or not but I do believe a lot of the Dusty hate is because he’s black. Sorry to point out the elephant in the room but if you don’t think this is true you’re naive.

    • @SirRibShack: Name a bunch of bad players and say Dusty likes these kind of players and Walt does too or Dusty likes these players and Walt doesn’t but he goes and gets them anyway. Either way it’s a shot at Dusty Baker liking bad veterans even though he’s never been a GM and yet he gets blamed for roster moves and bad trades constantly by many commenters on this site.

      I think you should let this go, since you’re just digging a deeper hole at this point. I suggest again, stop trying to psychoanalyze posters, and just respond directly to comments you do or don’t agree with, and discuss the merits.

      The problem with the above quote, in my mind, is that there is a very clear reason to say that some of the players are Dusty-type players. That reason is that he plays them a lot and he bats them high in the order. If Dusty was really going kicking and screaming with guys like Taveras, he wouldn’t have gotten 400+ABs in the leadoff spot when there were plenty of better options.

    • @SirRibShack: Name a bunch of bad players and say Dusty likes these kind of players and Walt does too or Dusty likes these players and Walt doesn’t but he goes and gets them anyway.Either way it’s a shot at Dusty Baker liking bad veterans even though he’s never been a GM and yet he gets blamed for roster moves and bad trades constantly by many commenters on this site.

      I’ve never heard anyway say man I’m glad Dusty likes good pitchers and told Walt to go get Latos and Broxton.But I hear all the time that Paterson, Taveras, Harris, Valdez etc were all Dusty’s idea.

      To BloodyHo, you’re right I know nothing about you and have no idea if you’re racist or not but I do believe a lot of the Dusty hate is because he’s black.Sorry to point out the elephant in the room but if you don’t think this is true you’re naive.

      @Cbus: So now all of us who don’t like the way Dusty manages a game hate black people? You’re an idiot, you know that?

    • @SirRibShack:

      To BloodyHo, you’re right I know nothing about you and have no idea if you’re racist or not but I do believe a lot of the Dusty hate is because he’s black.Sorry to point out the elephant in the room but if you don’t think this is true you’re naive.

      Dude, in a city where people like Frank Robinson, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, George Foster, Barry Larkin, etc., are idolized? Shoot, I would live to see Joe or Barry become the manager. Where we have a black mayor? But, when Baker’s decision-making ability is:

      – how much of a chance he’s given Stubbs, Gomes, Harris
      – bunting Stubbs to second against soft tossers like Lohse on the mound
      – putting Coco out there 4 out of 5 days knowing Coco doesn’t have his good stuff
      – leading off our batting order with 2 of the worst hitters on the team, making batting orders simply based off of a batter having experience against a pitcher 3-5 years ago
      – forgetting the ball count on one of his batters he’s having sacrifice bunt
      – asking for a weather report from a manager with a history that he would, figuratively, lie to his own mother if he felt it would give him a edge during the game

      Baker shows he doesn’t have very good decision making ability. What I listed above isn’t “color”-dependent. This is “decision-making” ability-dependent. Baker may have been a good manager at one time. IMO, he is only serviceable right now. Something like a player like Cairo has been for the last several years. Teams always want someone like that. That’s why they can be around so long. Why did he spend so long in SF? Why would they consider letting go of a close friend of two of their franchise’s biggest players? Baker only lasted 4 years in Chicago. Remember the (at best) racial statement he made in Chicago.

  58. Hey, I just got informed that I was selected to buy NLDS tickets!

    How did everybody else fare?

    • Hey, I just got informed that I was selected to buy NLDS tickets!

      How did everybody else fare?

      I thought I won. The title of the email I got was “NLDS Ticket Purchase Opportunity”. What a let down when I opened that thing up.

      • I thought I won. The title of the email I got was “NLDS Ticket Purchase Opportunity”. What a let down when I opened that thing up.

        Me too! I was perturbed.

  59. Lottery loser here. Don’t mind. I want World Series tickets!!

    I agree that this boils down to two simple questions – which two pitchers do you leave off the playoff roster, and which batter do you add to the playoff roster. They don’t need five starters so they don’t need 12 pitchers. My two cents:

    Pitchers – You actually have to drop three here if you consider Cingrani as part of the mix. No Ondrusek. Pretty simple there. No Cingrani (unless it’s the Phillies then maybe, but only maybe). That leaves Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey (a lock), Leake, Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Arredondo, LeCure, and in my opinion a slight surprise, Hoover. Which means no Simon. They just don’t need three potential long men (Leake, LeCure, Simon). I’d say if you need three long guys you’ve either played a lot of extra innings or you got your hat handed to you.

    Batters – I’ll be very surprised if they don’t simply add Navarro (or Mesoraco depending on how you want to look at it) and call it done. That means you get to keep Valdez and Cairo and add Navarro. No Gregorius. Sorry Didi, but this team will be back in the playoffs and your time will come. That makes Hanigan, Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen, Ludwick, Stubbs, Bruce, Navarro, Mesoraco, Cairo, Frazier, Heisey and Paul.

    Mark it down. The only switch that might happen and wouldn’t totally surprise me is if they keep Simon and drop Leake. No way Ondrusek makes this team, and Cingrani like Gregorius will be back. Everything else is set. Of course, I could be wrong…

    • Batters – I’ll be very surprised if they don’t simply add Navarro (or Mesoraco depending on how you want to look at it) and call it done. That means you get to keep Valdez and Cairo and add Navarro. No Gregorius. Sorry Didi, but this team will be back in the playoffs and your time will come. That makes Hanigan, Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Rolen, Ludwick, Stubbs, Bruce, Navarro, Mesoraco, Cairo, Frazier, Heisey and Paul.

      You left Valdez off your list there, but said you were keeping him. I think you’re making the same mistake I did above, which was forgeting that the Reds were supposed to have to make a decision on keeping either a) X Paul, or b) Cairo or Valdez when Votto came back. But they never had to make that decision, because Votto didn’t come back in August.

      Point being, it’s a little trickier than just adding Navarro.

      If you assume Heisey and Frazier are bench locks, that means you have 10 guys selected. If you’re going to 14, that means you get to take 4 of the following 5:

      Navarro, Mesoraco, Paul, Valdez, Cairo

      Navarro is my pick for catcher, Paul for LH pinch hitter. Valdez will get picked as backup SS. That means it will probably come down to the veteran vs. the rookie, and since the rookie didn’t hit especially well, I’m guessing they go with the veteran.

  60. @renbutler: I got a chance to buy tickets!!! Woohoo. I won’t be able to make it to Cinci until game 4. Is it awful that I hope they don’t sweep?

  61. One thing I will say, there’s almost no loss any which way we go. With the 18 laid out in the headline, needing 7 more, I would look to add:

    OF – Xavier Paul
    INF – Didi
    C – Devin
    C – Navarro (as more of a pinch hitter)

    P – Homer (for starter or pen)
    P – Hoover
    P – Cingrani (really only because he’s left handed; I would like another left hander in there)

    I think they will do something different. I think Cairo instead of Didi. I think Valdez instead of Devin. I think Logan in stead of Hoover. I think Lecure instead of Cingrani.

    But, again, I believe we can do well with tweeks to any of this. I could easily understand Logan instead of Homer. Or, Logan instead of Cingrani. Or, Lecure instead of Homer. Or, with the position players, Valdez instead of Didi. Or, Cairo instead of Devin. I don’t think we lost much with anything like those. Maybe even gain something different. But, one thing’s for sure. But, it’s good to talk like this, that we can almost play, “Pick the piece to the puzzle”, rather than “Who are we going to suffer with”. Lots of talent there.

  62. For me, XPaul, Navarro, and Hoover are no brainers. I’m definitely for Devin as the emergency catcher so that Navarro can PH.

    I understand what people are saying about Cingrani being left handed, but jeez. He has 4.1 MLB innings pitched. I’m excited about the guy, but I’m not sure I want to bring him in in the playoffs just yet.

  63. Cingrani isn’t even built to get left handed hitters out. Cingrani’s change up is described as anywhere from below to above average depending on who you listen to (Welsh I believe described it as plus plus but other sources have it as below average so who the heck knows),and he doesn’t really have an effective breaking pitch. Doug Grey I believe mentioned that his splits seem to suggest he’s better at getting RH hitters out than LHs.

    But I guess this is just typical. A left handed pitcher shows up, and everyone, including the manager, wants to turn him into a LOOGY.

    • Cingrani isn’t even built to get left handed hitters out.Cingrani’s change up is described as anywhere from below to above average depending on who you listen to (Welsh I believe described it as plus plus but other sources have it as below average so who the heck knows),and he doesn’t really have an effective breaking pitch.Doug Grey I believe mentioned that his splits seem to suggest he’s better at getting RH hitters out than LHs.

      But I guess this is just typical.A left handed pitcher shows up, and everyone, including the manager, wants to turn him into a LOOGY.

      I asked the question about Cingrani’s breaking ball a while back. I’ve never seen him throw one. Does he even have one?

      • I asked the question about Cingrani’s breaking ball a while back.I’ve never seen him throw one.Does he even have one?

        I have read on several scouting sites that his fastball is a +pitch, his change a +pitch but not as strong as the FB with his slider a work in progress.

        He seems to have succeeded by varying speeds effectively on the FB while commanding it’s location very well and mixing in some effective changes. For now his slider seems to be mainly a show pitch to try and plant thoughts.

      • I asked the question about Cingrani’s breaking ball a while back. I’ve never seen him throw one. Does he even have one?

        Yes, a decent slider. But they have had Marshall tutoring him a bit on that slider. I saw him when he pitched at Rice a couple of times. The dude is for real. Just about every team Walt talked trade to in July wanted Cingrani in return.

  64. @BenL: Any chance you guys that won the OPPORTUNITY to buy tickets can buy several and sell some at face value to those of us who weren’t so lucky? StubHub is outrageous right now.

  65. @RedTitan19: Sorry, my 4 tickets will probably be spoken for, but if I find myself with an extra I would certainly like to see it in the hands of a real fan.

  66. @wally mo: You’re right. Or perhaps I can’t count! I guess this question is easier if you have an actual roster in front of you instead of just doing this by memory. And I did lose track of the fact that they didn’t drop anyone when Votto returned so there’s an extra position player in the “main” roster (not counting the purely September call-ups).

    Valdez is definitely in. That leaves Mesoraco or Cairo out. I’m guessing they’ll drop Mesoraco and keep Cairo. Mesoraco adds nothing right now – the only reasons to keep him are a) to get him some playoff experience, though I’m not sure how valuable that would be watching from the bench because his playing time will be virtually nil, and b) a third catcher in case you pinch hit or double switch with Hanigan or Navarro and your second catcher gets hurt. I would think in that case they would put Cairo behind the plate or even Super Todd. Even though Cairo isn’t worth his weight in pennies right now, I can’t believe they’d have him on their roster all year long only to leave him off a playoff team. And he does have some versatility in the field in addition to that nebulous veteran-y thing.

  67. And I’m very new at this – how do I get that fancy bright red @ reference?

  68. @RedTitan19: At least I know I’m not the only one that had the sting of rejection tonight.

  69. @CFD3000: The reply button on the bottom right of a post. It doesn’t show up until you mouse over the comment you want to reply to.

  70. @SirRibShack: That’s not even close to what I said but go ahead and make things up if it makes you feel better about your argument.

  71. @SirRibShack: Thanks. I feel official now.

  72. @SirRibShack: That’s not even close to what I said but go ahead and make things up if it makes you feel better about your argument.

    That’s exactly what you said. Most people don’t like Baker because he’s black. Did you say that, yes or no? Oh wait, I have the answers right here for you.

    “Hate to say it but I think he’s just got the wrong skin color for this town and some will never like him no matter what he accomplishes.”

    And…

    “To BloodyHo, you’re right I know nothing about you and have no idea if you’re racist or not but I do believe a lot of the Dusty hate is because he’s black. Sorry to point out the elephant in the room but if you don’t think this is true you’re naive.”

    You said this in reply to people on THIS BOARD so who are you talking about? If you aren’t talking about the fine people that come on this site to discuss our favorite team then don’t bring this garbage up on here. If disliking Dusty Baker the manager makes me a racist in your eyes so be it, I won’t lose any sleep over it.

  73. @CFD3000: No problem!

  74. FWIW, Fay has posted his thoughts about the post-season roster.

    Interestingly, he has Hoover as a lock. Agrees with the commenters that have LeCure as a lock and Simon on the bubble.

    Among position players, includes Valdez as a lock. Has Cairo, Mes and Gregorius on the bubble. Predicts Cairo but mentions the “Mes allowing Navarro to PH” scenario.

  75. @pinson343: I really want Mes on the roster so Navarro can pinch hit. I think he could be a difference maker in a close game with his bat.

  76. The Cubs and Pirates are just starting up ! Hopefully it will go extra innings.

  77. @SirRibShack: Agreed.

  78. @pinson343: i’m actually feeling pretty sorry for the pirates and their fans right about now … i guess the alternative is to keep watching the giants and size up the likely first-round competition!

    • @pinson343: i’m actually feeling pretty sorry for the pirates and their fans right about now … i guess the alternative is to keep watching the giants and size up the likely first-round competition!

      they got a month further down the road than last year. I guess if one is a fan of theirs, you hope they stay the course and try to add another piece or two this off season

  79. I usually don’t get a chance to log on and read the comments on here until late at night or early in the morning so that’s why it took so long to say this. The comments from cbus concerning Dusty were offensive to the city I love and the posters on this site.

    I won’t be surprised to see the Reds go with the 25 man roster in the playoffs that brought them to where they are right now. Valdez, Cairo, Mesoraco and Leake all contributed to getting them to the playoffs. It will be frustrating to say the least to see Wilson Valdez start a game, and Drew Stubbs bat second etc. but I won’t be surprised. It has worked so far….

  80. Ok, that’s what I would want, here is what I think will happen. Let me remind people that taking guys who have been with the team all year has always been Dusty’s MO his entire career. Obviously, final judgements come down Mr. Jocketty.

    Bench: XP, Navarro, Valdez, Cairo
    Starting Pitching: Baily
    Relievers: Leake, LeCure

    The biggest regret for me is that leaves Hoover off. Honestly though, as much as I like Hoover I don’t see a name he beats out for a spot. Simon has been very good and he has been with the team all year. Leake will not be left off the roster. Valdez and Cairo have both had a horrible year, but they have “postseason experience” which may or may not be important. I don’t know. I’ve never been there. Paul is a no brainer and probably should have been on the No Doubt list. I take Navarro over Meso because, well, they want to win.

  81. @steveschoen: Well said. A great defense and a darning indictment.

  82. @TC: U didn’t have to read it, wasn’t addressing you Mr. grammar. Shot back a quick comment to a poster.

  83. I’d like to see Paul, Navarro on the bench at least.. plus I wouldn’t be VERY surprised if the reds took LeCure and Hoover, and decided to not go with a 4th starter.. you’d have potentially 3 long-relief guys then who have been pitching really really well… plus I would REALLY like to see Cingrani brought on the roster too. Guy looks lights out.

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About Jason Linden

Jason has been a fan of the Reds since he was born. He really had no choice in the matter. He has been writing at Redleg Nation for a few years, and also writes and edits at The Hardball Times. His debut novel, When the Sparrow Sings, is available now and concerns baseball, among other things. You can find more information at jasonlinden.com.

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2012 Postseason, 2012 Reds, Believe

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