2012 Reds

September Callups

According to Reds beat writer John Fay, the Reds will disclose their September callup roster decisions on Friday.

The Reds will announce the September call-ups Friday. Three of them will join the club Saturday in Houston; three will join the club Tuesday.

Devin Mesoraco will be back on Sunday – the first day he’s eligible to return.

My understanding is that this does not include players on a rehab assignment (namely Joey Votto and Bill Bray.) So, Votto and Bray on Saturday with 3 minor leaguers, Mesoraco on Sunday, and three more minor leaguers on Tuesday. Tuesday is when Louisville’s season ends.

Nine players in total would be added to the current roster, which would put the September roster at 34. Jocketty said the Billy Hamilton would “probably not” be among those called up. Hamilton is listed as an outfielder for the Arizona Fall League.

“That’s part of it,” Jocketty said. “He’s going to go to the Instructional League and the (Arizona) Fall League. He needs a little break. He’s had a terrific year.”

Jocketty said Hamilton will “possibly” play other positions, i.e. outfield, in the Fall League. Hamilton has played all shortstop this year.

Candidates to be called up among already on the 40-man roster include those that have already seen major action: Todd Redmond, Logan Ondrusek, Chris Valaika, Jordan Smith.

Others on the 40-man roster include
— The entire Louisville Bats infield: Neftali Soto, Henry Rodriguez, and Didi Gregorius. Rodriguez and Gregorius have been moving around to play all the infield positions the past few weeks, including Rodriguez playing several games at shortstop.
— Denis Phipps plays all 3 outfield positions and has come on lately with a .939 OPS in August.
— Pedro Villarreal, Donald Lutz (AA), and Kyle Lotzkar (AA) round out the 40-man roster and are unlikely to get the September call in 2012.

It seems unlikely that the Reds would add anyone to the 40-man roster, though leading candidates from that group could include Willie Harris, Mike Costanzo, Carlos Fisher, Will Ohman, and Corky Miller.

My guesses for who gets the callup on Saturday is one infielder and 2 pitchers. I’m guessing 1 infielder because P.J. Phillips was promoted to AAA Louisville yesterday. Perhaps Henry Rodriguez, but that’s just a complete guess. Todd Redmond and Logan Ondrusek seem to be the best bets for immediate pitching help. Gregorius is heading to the Arizona Fall League, so it may be more likely that someone like Valaika gets the callup on Tuesday. I could also see the team bringing up Jordan Smith and adding either another outfield bat – either Denis Phipps or Willie Harris.

50 thoughts on “September Callups

  1. Would love to see Billy Mays Hayes get the call-up, but I understand what they’re doing.
    Isn’t unfair to call Willie Harris and outfield “bat”? He might as well not use one when he visits the plate.

  2. I was pretty disappointed to hear the radio guys talking about the Billy Hamilton decision yesterday, sending him out to the fall league. I understand the advantage of pushing back his timetable on the major league roster for financial/control reasons, but the kid would be a menace on the basepaths as a pinch-runner. And with how he’s looked at the plate lately, he might be one of the best pinch-hitting options if you HAVE to get somebody on base.

    I dread the day this October when there’s a 2-2 tie late in the game, and Dusty sends up Miguel Cairo to pinch hit. We all know its bound to happen. Or better yet, maybe it’ll be Willie Harris!🙄

    • I was pretty disappointed to hear the radio guys talking about the Billy Hamilton decision yesterday, sending him out to the fall league. I understand the advantage of pushing back his timetable on the major league roster for financial/control reasons, but the kid would be a menace on the basepaths as a pinch-runner. And with how he’s looked at the plate lately, he might be one of the best pinch-hitting options if you HAVE to get somebody on base.I dread the day this October when there’s a 2-2 tie late in the game, and Dusty sends up Miguel Cairo to pinch hit. We all know its bound to happen. Or better yet, maybe it’ll be Willie Harris!

      What leads you to believe Hamilton could hit on this level? And as for his speed, Dusty has shown he is not much for the stolen base, so he wouldn’t have been used much if any in pinch hitting roles.

  3. If I’m the Reds, I need to be planning for a few injuries.

    For example, if XPaul get hurt, do I have a LH PH that I’m comfortable with?
    If a catcher is injured, am I comfortable with Navarro, or do I want Corky Miller over with Merlin on Ready 5?

    • I was pretty disappointed to hear the radio guys talking about the Billy Hamilton decision yesterday, sending him out to the fall league. I understand the advantage of pushing back his timetable on the major league roster for financial/control reasons, but the kid would be a menace on the basepaths as a pinch-runner. And with how he’s looked at the plate lately, he might be one of the best pinch-hitting options if you HAVE to get somebody on base.

      I dread the day this October when there’s a 2-2 tie late in the game, and Dusty sends up Miguel Cairo to pinch hit. We all know its bound to happen. Or better yet, maybe it’ll be Willie Harris!

      He’s only played 45 games against AA pitching and all the reports say that he isn’t ready. Between single A and AA he’s struck out 107 times this season and he’s been caught stealing 36 times. I think promoting him to be a full time pinch runner would have been a mistake and he’s not yet ready to field. I’m happy that he gets to go to the Arizona Fall League, and that Peoria lists him as an outfielder.

      If I’m the Reds, I need to be planning for a few injuries.

      For example, if XPaul get hurt, do I have a LH PH that I’m comfortable with?
      If a catcher is injured, am I comfortable with Navarro, or do I want Corky Miller over with Merlin on Ready 5?

      I think switch hitting Dioner Navarro will be returned to pinch hitting duty with Mesoraco catching again. For Navarro’s career he’s been alright as a left handed hitter.

      • He’s only played 45 games against AA pitching and all the reports say that he isn’t ready.Between single A and AA he’s struck out 107 times this season and he’s been caught stealing 36 times.I think promoting him to be a full time pinch runner would have been a mistake and he’s not yet ready to field.I’m happy that he gets to go to the Arizona Fall League, and that Peoria lists him as an outfielder.

        I think switch hitting Dioner Navarro will be returned to pinch hitting duty with Mesoraco catching again.For Navarro’s career he’s been alright as a left handed hitter.

        You say his 36 times caught stealing as if it’s some horrible, atrocious number… Stubbs successfully steals a base 82% of the time this year on 34 attempts… Michael Bourn successfully steals 82% of the time on 45 attempts and he leads the NL in 37 steals.

        Hamilton has been successful 81% of the time this year. The difference is Hamilton’s 190 attempts… when Hamilton gets on base, people KNOW he’s going to steal 2nd, they KNOW he’s going to steal 3rd, and yet he still gets it 81% of the time.

        —————

        As for his 107 Ks, he’s also walked 83 times. That means .77 BB per K… for perspective, Frazier has .37 BB per K, Phillips has .42 BB per K, Bruce also has .42 BB per K….

        ————–

        You can’t just say “He’s been struck out 107 times, and caught stealing 36 times.” and make it sound like some horrible numbers. You need to give perspective with them, but I suppose then that wouldn’t support your argument.

        • You say his 36 times caught stealing as if it’s some horrible, atrocious number… Stubbs successfully steals a base 82% of the time this year on 34 attempts… Michael Bourn successfully steals 82% of the time on 45 attempts and he leads the NL in 37 steals.Hamilton has been successful 81% of the time this year. The difference is Hamilton’s 190 attempts… when Hamilton gets on base, people KNOW he’s going to steal 2nd, they KNOW he’s going to steal 3rd, and yet he still gets it 81% of the time.—————As for his 107 Ks, he’s also walked 83 times. That means .77 BB per K… for perspective, Frazier has .37 BB per K, Phillips has .42 BB per K, Bruce also has .42 BB per K….————–You can’t just say “He’s been struck out 107 times, and caught stealing 36 times.” and make it sound like some horrible numbers. You need to give perspective with them, but I suppose then that wouldn’t support your argument.

          I have heard that Hamilton’s base stealing technique needs a lot of refinement. He’s a speedster and he uses that to compesnate for poor technique. You need good technique and speed if you want to run on guys like Molina.

        • @ToddAlmighty:

          Hamilton has been successful 81% of the time this year. The difference is Hamilton’s 190 attempts… when Hamilton gets on base, people KNOW he’s going to steal 2nd, they KNOW he’s going to steal 3rd, and yet he still gets it 81% of the time.

          Not to mention, when he walks with the bases open, it’s virtually the same as hitting a double.

        • You say his 36 times caught stealing as if it’s some horrible, atrocious number… Stubbs successfully steals a base 82% of the time this year on 34 attempts… Michael Bourn successfully steals 82% of the time on 45 attempts and he leads the NL in 37 steals.

          Hamilton has been successful 81% of the time this year. The difference is Hamilton’s 190 attempts… when Hamilton gets on base, people KNOW he’s going to steal 2nd, they KNOW he’s going to steal 3rd, and yet he still gets it 81% of the time.

          —————

          As for his 107 Ks, he’s also walked 83 times. That means .77 BB per K… for perspective, Frazier has .37 BB per K, Phillips has .42 BB per K, Bruce also has .42 BB per K….

          ————–

          You can’t just say “He’s been struck out 107 times, and caught stealing 36 times.” and make it sound like some horrible numbers. You need to give perspective with them, but I suppose then that wouldn’t support your argument.

          I say 36 steals against single A and AA pitchers to point out that even for Mr Speedster stealing a base is NOT a sure thing. MLB pitchers (and catchers) are probably better at holding runners on. Promoting him to use him to pinch run and steal bases is silly.

          107 strikeouts, that might not be an extremely high amount but remember that most of the pitchers the Reds face are better than guys he’d see in single A or AA. The strikeout rate is likely to go up against MLB pitching, not down.

          Billy Hamilton has been tagged with the honor of being selected to participate in the Arizona Fall League. Fine, impressive, a successful end to the 2012 season for him. Leave it at that. Don’t rush him to somewhere where he’ll be overmatched just as a publicity stunt.

  4. Lutz, Billy Hamilton (listed in the AFL as an outfielder), and Gregorius are all going to the Arizona Fall League. I was expecting to see Gregorius promoted as a backup shortstop. Oh well. Jordan Smith seemed to have disappeared off the face of the earth but I guess he’s still around. Henry Rodriguez had stopped hitting but started again in the past week.

  5. There is ZERO financial benefit to keeping Billy Hamilton in the minors during September (other than paying big league money to an additional guy on the roster). That service time won’t affect his arb or free agent eligibility.

    It will, as some have noted, constitute one of Hamilton’s three option years. However, that only comes into effect if the Reds want to keep Hamilton in the minors for some (but not all) of 2013, 2014, and ALSO 2015. IMO, if Billy Hamilton gets major league playing time in 2013 and 2014, the Reds are going to know what they have by April 2015.

    If Hamilton hasn’t earned a major league roster spot by April 2015, or if the Reds have 5 better outfielders, will we really care if Billy Hamilton has to be traded or pass through waivers? There’s essentially zero chance that Hamilton will be (1) good enough to play in the majors in parts of 2013-14, but (2) not good enough to make the roster in 2015, but at the same time (3) still promising enough that they would care that they lose him.

    At worst, burning a Hamilton option in September 2012 means that the Reds won’t be able to keep someone like Willie Harris, Fred Lewis, or Chris Dickerson – or he can’t beat out those type of guys and he gets cut/traded. That’s the maximum possible price they’d pay for adding a super speedster to the roster for September and possibly the playoffs.

    (To be fair, the Reds are almost assured of a playoff spot, if not the NLC. They’re really playing for home field advantage, which is important, but not nearly as big a hurdle as playing for a postseason berth itself.)

    • There is ZERO financial benefit to keeping Billy Hamilton in the minors during September (other than paying big league money to an additional guy on the roster).That service time won’t affect his arb or free agent eligibility.

      It will, as some have noted, constitute one of Hamilton’s three option years.However, that only comes into effect if the Reds want to keep Hamilton in the minors for some (but not all) of 2013, 2014, and ALSO 2015.IMO, if Billy Hamilton gets major league playing time in 2013 and 2014, the Reds are going to know what they have by April 2015.

      If Hamilton hasn’t earned a major league roster spot by April 2015, or if the Reds have 5 better outfielders, will we really care if Billy Hamilton has to be traded or pass through waivers?There’s essentially zero chance that Hamilton will be (1) good enough to play in the majors in parts of 2013-14, but (2) not good enough to make the roster in 2015, but at the same time (3) still promising enough that they would care that they lose him.

      At worst, burning a Hamilton option in September 2012 means that the Reds won’t be able to keep someone like Willie Harris, Fred Lewis, or Chris Dickerson – or he can’t beat out those type of guys and he gets cut/traded.That’s the maximum possible price they’d pay for adding a super speedster to the roster for September and possibly the playoffs.

      (To be fair, the Reds are almost assured of a playoff spot, if not the NLC.They’re really playing for home field advantage, which is important, but not nearly as big a hurdle as playing for a postseason berth itself.)

      There’s zero benefit to rushing a player if he’s not yet ready to play. Instead he can spend the next few weeks preparing for the Arizona Fall League, where he can showcase his skills against some of MLB’s top prospects.

    • There is ZERO financial benefit to keeping Billy Hamilton in the minors during September (other than paying big league money to an additional guy on the roster). That service time won’t affect his arb or free agent eligibility.It will, as some have noted, constitute one of Hamilton’s three option years. However, that only comes into effect if the Reds want to keep Hamilton in the minors for some (but not all) of 2013, 2014, and ALSO 2015. IMO, if Billy Hamilton gets major league playing time in 2013 and 2014, the Reds are going to know what they have by April 2015. If Hamilton hasn’t earned a major league roster spot by April 2015, or if the Reds have 5 better outfielders, will we really care if Billy Hamilton has to be traded or pass through waivers? There’s essentially zero chance that Hamilton will be (1) good enough to play in the majors in parts of 2013-14, but (2) not good enough to make the roster in 2015, but at the same time (3) still promising enough that they would care that they lose him. At worst, burning a Hamilton option in September 2012 means that the Reds won’t be able to keep someone like Willie Harris, Fred Lewis, or Chris Dickerson – or he can’t beat out those type of guys and he gets cut/traded. That’s the maximum possible price they’d pay for adding a super speedster to the roster for September and possibly the playoffs. (To be fair, the Reds are almost assured of a playoff spot, if not the NLC. They’re really playing for home field advantage, which is important, but not nearly as big a hurdle as playing for a postseason berth itself.)

      I disagree that Hamilton should be called up, primarily because 1) I think call-ups are usually a bad thing for contenders, but 2) I don’t think he’d be all that useful this year. He doesn’t have the pop to keep pitchers honest, so they are going to be throwing hard and inside. His swing mechanics give him difficulty hitting those types of pitches. He may start cheating to catch up and that’s when he is going to take some ugly hacks on breaking stuff. If he can’t handle major league pitching at this point, what is he? If he is called upon to PR, it would likely be in a late and tight situation. Since he is a defensive liability, its not useful to leave him in as a defensive replacement. Which means he is in to steal/run the bases. He relies on speed rather than technique to steal bases, and that’s not going to cut it against major leaguers. Any number of players, Leake, Heisey, Stubbs, etc. could be used more effectively in the same role.

      That’s not to say Hamilton isn’t the second coming of Jose Reyes, I think he’s going to be really good. But if the Reds are going to move him to CF, I’d rather him continue to develop his techniques so next season the Reds can consider starting him at AAA in CF.

      • He relies on speed rather than technique to steal bases, and that’s not going to cut it against major leaguers.

        This is conjecture. You “heard” from some unnamed source in unknown context that Hamilton’s technique needed work, extrapolated that he can only steal bases because he’s fast, and asserted all on your own that it all means he isn’t good enough to steal at the major league level.

        The only fact we have is that he’s stealing bases in the minors at a record level. Say what you want about the merit of bringing a guy up just to pinch run, but if you don’t think Hamilton would be the best base stealer on the team from his first day on, then.. well, I’m not going to agree.

        • This is conjecture. You “heard” from some unnamed source in unknown context that Hamilton’s technique needed work, extrapolated that he can only steal bases because he’s fast, and asserted all on your own that it all means he isn’t good enough to steal at the major league level.

          The only fact we have is that he’s stealing bases in the minors at a record level. Say what you want about the merit of bringing a guy up just to pinch run, but if you don’t think Hamilton would be the best base stealer on the team from his first day on, then.. well, I’m not going to agree.

          It seems like every credible source has implied that Billy Hamilton isn’t ready yet, as a fielder, baserunner, OR hitter. Everyone who wants him promoted does so based on his season statistics, not the reviews of his performance. Calls for his promotion are not because they expect him to contribute, but they want a chance to see what he can do.

          Seeing baserunners and basestealing threats against Cueto and Chapman vs Mat Latos shows what a role a pitcher can have in a guy’s ability to steal. Cueto and Chapman can both shut down the running game. Some MLB catchers are hard to steal against. Guys in single A and AA, often times they’re there to work on those things. At this rate I do not think Hamilton would be a successful base stealer. If he steals for a high success rate in the Arizona Fall League I’ll be impressed.

        • This is conjecture.

          No. Conjecture is an opinion without sufficient evidence or proof.

          You “heard” from some unnamed source in unknown context that Hamilton’s technique needed work.

          Actually, I cited Mike Newman of Fangraphs and Scouting the Sally. He’s pretty well regarded. John Sickels, maybe you’ve heard of him, wrote this about Hamilton on August 22, 2012, “Interestingly enough, scouts say that Hamilton’s actual stealing technique is still raw; he relies mostly on his speed. If he refines that…, well, he’s already stealing at an 80% success percentage.” And a thanks to Matt WI who gave you it straight from the horse’s mouth via Jeff Passan.

          That my friend is called “evidence” and is the antithesis to conjecture.

          extrapolated that he can only steal bases because he’s fast.

          Actually, I didn’t. I said I’ve heard he has poor technique and relies more on pure speed at this point in his development to steal bases (he’s learning better technique).

          asserted all on your own that it all means he isn’t good enough to steal at the major league level.

          Again, I didn’t say he isn’t good enough to steal at the MLB level. His technique may be suspect, but he also may be fast enough to steal on some pitchers and catchers with average to below average technique. However, speed alone is likely not going to cut it against a great defensive catcher or a pitcher with a great pickoff move. It’s not as though he is impervious to being thrown out (see CS – 36).

          The only fact we have is that he’s stealing bases in the minors at a record level.

          See Above.

          Say what you want about the merit of bringing a guy up just to pinch run.

          But that is my entire point. By all accounts, “being fast” is the only thing he brings to the table right now. Why not just sign Willy Taveras to the 40 man? There are other guys on the team who can PR if need be. Is Leake going to score from second on a sac fly? No. But in what world do you think that matters in September games against the Astros?

          if you don’t think Hamilton would be the best base stealer on the team from his first day on, then.. well, I’m not going to agree.

          One Robert Andrew Stubbs would probably join me on my side of the argument.

        • No.Conjecture is an opinion without sufficient evidence or proof.

          Actually, I cited Mike Newman of Fangraphs and Scouting the Sally.He’s pretty well regarded.John Sickels, maybe you’ve heard of him …

          In the post I responded to, you didn’t cite anyone. You said, “I heard.” Looks like you wrote the comment where you did while I was writing mine.

          That my friend is called “evidence” and is the antithesis to conjecture.

          You’re referencing the opinions of other people who may or may not have seen the evidence first hand. Some certainly have, and I’m sure others haven’t.

          extrapolated that he can only steal bases because he’s fast.

          Actually, I didn’t.I said I’ve heard he has poor technique and relies more on pure speed at this point in his development to steal bases (he’s learning better technique).

          I guess I don’t see what difference speed and good technique makes. If the guy can steal bases he can steal bases. Sure, better technique will help him steal more, but what he’s doing is obviously working AT LEAST to an extent better than anyone else in the minors.

          But that is my entire point.By all accounts, “being fast” is the only thing he brings to the table right now.Why not just sign Willy Taveras to the 40 man?There are other guys on the team who can PR if need be.Is Leake going to score from second on a sac fly?No.But in what world do you think that matters in September games against the Astros?

          First off, I never said he should be brought up. I don’t have an opinion one way or the other. And with the expanded rosters it really isn’t going to be a big deal either way.

          But if you were going to bring him up because he’s fast, you’d bring him up over Taveras because he’s faster than Taveras. Or at least better at stealing bases.

          One Robert Andrew Stubbs would probably join me on my side of the argument.

          You think if a reporter came up to Stubbs and asked him “Are you a better base stealer than Billy Hamilton, who has 157 in the minors this year?” he would say yes?

  6. For September, Meso and Navarro will both be on the roster, providing the Reds with another LH bat off the bench. I think this may also be an audition for Navarro to make the post season roster as another LH pinch hitter to suppliment XP’s presence on the bench. With the flexibility of Super Todd and Valdez to play virtually anywhere they are needed, I think a tough decision may have to be made and Cairo may be a player left on emergency call-up status in case an IF is injured. Since Rodriguez was not nominated for the AFL, I have to believe he is among the September call ups, likewise Phipps and Redmond. The Reds are certainly taking a competitive approach to the call ups this year.

    • For September, Meso and Navarro will both be on the roster, providing the Reds with another LH bat off the bench.I think this may also be an audition for Navarro to make the post season roster as another LH pinch hitter to suppliment XP’s presence on the bench.

      Isn’t Navarro the only other catcher eligible for the post-season? Did I miss something with Meso where he would somehow be eleigible despite not being on the active roster

      • Isn’t Navarro the only other catcher eligible for the post-season? Did I miss something with Meso where he would somehow be eleigible despite not being on the active roster

        Here are some details about how Mesoraco is eligible for the postseason.

        In short, the Reds will have a 29-player pool to choose from. If the Reds make no transactions tomorrow, their current 25-man roster plus Joey Votto, Bill Bray, Nick Masset, and Ryan Madson will be the players eligible for the playoff roster.

        With Masset and Madson shut down for the year, they can be replaced by anyone who was in the organization today. Players that they add in September are not eligible to be added to the postseason roster. So, Mesoraco and Ondrusek, who are in AAA now but have been with the team all year, could be in the 29-player post season pool. Or it could be Henry Rodriguez, Todd Redmond, Billy Hamilton, etc.

        So, one reason you won’t see Joey Votto activated until Saturday is so that this pool of players is 29 instead of 28.

  7. @Chris Garber: I don’t think they do have any other LH bats that their comfortable with or we would have seen them by now. XPaul came from outside the organization after being released by Washington.

    We’ve seen Harris – he is what he is and we’ve seen Costanzo – who played much worse than he had in the minors. Henry Rodriguez has played shortstop 7 times now at Louisville. Perhaps they’re doing that for next season, but I think they’re considering him for a September callup and want to see if he can handle all the utility positions.

  8. My question is once the Reds clinch, how do you set up your lineup card for the remaining games. Do you pull an Indy Colts and rest your starters even if it means not having the overall best and such, or do you play for the best record…

    • @BRMReturns: Something like this (I may have some details wrong, but I’m pretty sure this is the gist of it): A player on the disabled list can be replaced with another player on the 40-man roster. For example, right now we have 29 people eligible – the 25 obvious ones and 4 more since Votto, Bray, Madson, and Masset are on the DL as of August 31. We pick 25 people for each series as the playoff roster from the 25 who are on the August 31 25-man roster and four others who are on the 40-man. If I got that at all wrong, someone please correct me😛

  9. What about Felix Perez?? All he has done is hit .357 since June 1 at AAA. He’s not on the 40-man roster, but I would make room for him and see what he can do in September. I don’t know anything about him, but someone said a couple of days ago on here that he was a Cuban defector.

    • What about Felix Perez??All he has done is hit .357 since June 1 at AAA.He’s not on the 40-man roster, but I would make room for him and see what he can do in September. I don’t know anything about him, but someone said a couple of days ago on here that he was a Cuban defector.

      Perez is the other name I was thinking of. I would much rather see him get a call up as LH batter than Harris or Costanzo. He’s hit all year and can play all the OF positions if needed. Give the kid a shot as a reward for putting together a good, consistant season on a wretched team.

  10. @Omri: However, Meso is not on the 25 man and will not be before (9/1), nor is he on the DL. I guess that was my question/statement. I believe that Navarro HAS to be on the post-season roster as our back-up catcher because Meso is not eligible.

  11. I may be in the minority, but I don’t like a lot of call-ups on contending teams. It would be nice to add an arm or two (to add extra relief innings to blow outs or extra inning games) and a third catcher (which most managers would want if they had the extra roster spot), but that’s effectively all you need.

    The toughest thing in September is the balance of keeping starters rested/healthy but sharp for the playoffs.

    We’ve talked at length about the amount of rest/ABs that Votto, Rolen, Ludwick and Frazier (not to mention Cairo) should get between LF, 1B, and 3rd. Stubbs, Bruce, Heisey and Paul take care of CF and RF, and there is enough depth to take care of middle INF already.

    To me, call-ups more than a couple arms and a back up catcher only hinders the bench players on the team during the playoffs. It is hard enough staying sharp as a PH or backup if you get called on once or twice a week, but now add several more players to share ABs and guys like Heisey, Paul, etc. can lose their edge.

    No thanks.

    • To me, call-ups more than a couple arms and a back up catcher only hinders the bench players on the team during the playoffs. It is hard enough staying sharp as a PH or backup if you get called on once or twice a week, but now add several more players to share ABs and guys like Heisey, Paul, etc. can lose their edge.

      I’m with you, but I say call as many as you want up…. because calling ’em up is one thing, giving them playing time is another. Let it be an honorific of sorts this year, and just nice back-up in case of a extra innings marathon and a pinch hit/run here and there. I think we’re used to Sept being “look-see time,” but now it’s just bodies for the most part. If a given player will be better suited for AFL, (ahem, Billy Hamilton, ahem) then they put them where they need to go.

      • I’m with you, but I say call as many as you want up…. because calling ‘em up is one thing, giving them playing time is another. Let it be an honorific of sorts this year, and just nice back-up in case of a extra innings marathon and a pinch hit/run here and there. I think we’re used to Sept being “look-see time,” but now it’s just bodies for the most part. If a given player will be better suited for AFL, (ahem, Billy Hamilton, ahem) then they put them where they need to go.

        @Matt WI:

        I agree completely. Call up the majority of the 40-man, but with the understanding that you’re there for the “experience” and not for playing time. My thing with Hamilton is that he is NOT on the 40-man. So he would not be getting the work he needs in AFL, but would also have to cut someone off the 40-man for him to basically sit. Not worth it IMHO.

  12. Hamilton’s non-callup will be a major disappointment. Aside from that, it’s imperative we find out which of these callups can replace Valdez and Cairo on the postseason roster. That’s it, that’s all that matters. Both need to be gone yesterday. HRod and Didi would be my preferences.

    Outside of that, let’s make sure there’s enough depth at each position to give guys ample time off over the next month. We should also use this time to experiment with different orders. I need to see a platoon in CF–Bruce/Heisey there vs. righties and Stubbs vs. lefties.

    • Hamilton’s non-callup will be a major disappointment. Aside from that, it’s imperative we find out which of these callups can replace Valdez and Cairo on the postseason roster. That’s it, that’s all that matters. Both need to be gone yesterday. HRod and Didi would be my preferences. Outside of that, let’s make sure there’s enough depth at each position to give guys ample time off over the next month. We should also use this time to experiment with different orders. I need to see a platoon in CF–Bruce/Heisey there vs. righties and Stubbs vs. lefties.

      You know there is zero, heck even less then zero chance that Valdez and Cairo are NOT on the playoff rosters, so to think the Reds would go with an untested rookie is well kinda foolish don’t you think?

    • @Sultan of Swaff: Mike Newman disagrees:

      In spite of Hamilton’s gaudy stolen base totals, he’s actually a suspect base stealer in terms of technique. In his first stolen base attempt which resulted in a caught stealing, Hamilton’s actions at first base tipped off the entire stadium. It reminded me of my time as a coach when we played teams with no ability to defend against stolen base attempts. The other team knew we were going to steal second and third base on the first and second pitches, but it didn’t matter. In this instance, it did matter and Hamilton was thrown out by a good six feet.

  13. @David: The guy steals nearly 300 bases in 2 seasons w/ every person in the stadium completely aware of his intentions, yet his technique needs work? That’s laughable.

  14. @Jared: I don’t think they have those splits summarize at the minor league level. I think the only way to do it would be to look through 120+ box scores. Those stats are summarized for major league players at baseball-reference.com.

  15. @Jared: In fairness, he’s not making that up. Many articles over the summer reference the fact he is unrefined in technique and gets by a pure motor.

    And here’s a quote from Billy Hamilton himself via Jeff Passan at Yahoo:
    “It’s in my head to go every pitch,” Hamilton said. “I know I can use my speed and get away with things. I need to be smarter about it.”

  16. @Matt WI: Oh wait, I think I understand you now… it’s not worth it to add him to the 40 man to run a few bases vs. losing out on the work he needs in AZ. I need lunch.😀

  17. Its an off day. Its nice and hot outside. Is their a big party going on out on a boat on the Ohio River this afternoon??

  18. @Jared:
    1) Expert opinion is admissible evidence in a court of law, so I thought maybe I could rely on expert opinions here at the Nation in support of my argument without being berated for it.

    2) It’s working at AA. There’s obviously a BIG difference between the levels. I think this assumption that Hamilton is going to come up and immediately be Jose Reyes is dubious. Hamilton likely isn’t going to be stealing at an 80% rate and likely isn’t going to have the same green light he has elsewhere. It would be better for him to refine his technique with more attempts in instructional ball, how much is Hamilton’s “being fast” going to help at this point when his other tools are still developing?

    3) Well Stubbs has 108 SBs in his career at an 80% clip. Hamilton has zero. So, yeah, I think right now, Stubbs is the better MLB base stealer. Whether Stubbs would be sucker enough to answer that question, I guess, is another debate.

    • 2) It’s working at AA. There’s obviously a BIG difference between the levels. I think this assumption that Hamilton is going to come up and immediately be Jose Reyes is dubious. Hamilton likely isn’t going to be stealing at an 80% rate and likely isn’t going to have the same green light he has elsewhere. It would be better for him to refine his technique with more attempts in instructional ball, how much is Hamilton’s “being fast” going to help at this point when his other tools are still developing?

      I think you’re making this too hard. The guy has stolen 150+ bases in a season. More than anyone. Ever. You act like MLB catchers learn some magic trick that requires some super technique. Look at the list of guys that Newman cites — top minor league SB guys:

      (I deleted the old timey guys for whom I couldn’t find any actual stats)

      Vince Coleman 145 (82% at A ball) – stole a metric ton of bases in the majors at 79%
      Donell Nixon 144 (76% at A ball) – never stuck in majors – 72%
      Jeff Stone 123 (90% at A ball) – couldn’t hit, but 79% in majors
      Alan Wiggins 120 (83% at A ball) – 242 SB at 78% in majors
      Otis Nixon 108 (78% at AA-AAA) – 600+ SB at 76%

      – Other than Stone, these guys had roughly comparable success rates to Hamilton, at roughly equivalent levels and ages. And they all saw a 1-5 % drop at the major league level. Now, to be fair, none of those guys were promoted the same season they stole 100+ bases. But none of their parent clubs were in the playoff chase, either.

      Jeff Stone is again the exception – the 1981 Phillies were in the playoffs as first-half champs. But they made Bob Dernier (72 SB at AAA) their September pinch running callup.

      FWIW, I think they should call him up and ONLY use him as a pinch runner. Like, ever.

  19. @WVRedlegs:

    What about Felix Perez?? All he has done is hit .357 since June 1 at AAA. He’s not on the 40-man roster, but I would make room for him and see what he can do in September. I don’t know anything about him, but someone said a couple of days ago on here that he was a Cuban defector.

    I mentioned Perez the other day being a Cuban defector. Here’s an article from 2010 when the Reds signed him.

    CINCINNATI — The Reds have signed outfielder Felix Perez to a minor league contract, two years after he defected from Cuba.

    The 25-year-old Perez was suspended for a year by Major League Baseball for falsifying age records when he was negotiating with the New York Yankees. The Reds gave him a $550,000 signing bonus.

    The Reds plan to send Perez, currently in the Dominican Republic, to their spring training base in Goodyear, Ariz., to get a better feel for where he fits. He’s likely to start at Class A.

    Cincinnati signed left-hander Aroldis Chapman, also a Cuban defector, earlier this year.

  20. I can see both sides of the Hamilton issue. If they do call him up, the Reds still have games against the Astros and Cubs who are essentially throwing AAA pitchers at this point.

    • I can see both sides of the Hamilton issue. If they do call him up, the Reds still have games against the Astros and Cubs who are essentially throwing AAA pitchers at this point.

      Technically AAA pitchers are still a step up compared to what Billy Hamilton faced in less than half a season at AA.

  21. @Chris Garber: Maybe I am making it too hard. Scouts all agree – Hamilton is blazing fast. BUT he’s not ready to be a MLB player. He needs to refine his technique in all phases of the game. If you are thinking he is the Reds’ future leadoff hitter, then its better for the Reds and Hamilton, in the long term, to have him participating in instructional league play.

    In the short term, it’s a dubious assumption that Hamilton will be SO great of a base runner that he will contribute significant value to the team, especially considering he isn’t on the 40-man roster. How much do the Reds NEED a pinch runner? No one here would advocate adding Willy Taveras to the 40 man, correct? Well, Taveras was faster from the right side (3.56) than Hamilton (3.83).

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