2011 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Titanic Struggle Recap

Let’s recap today’s titanic struggle….

FINAL
Cincinnati 4
St. Louis 6

W: J. Garcia (11-7)
L: H. Bailey (7-7)
S: J. Motte (2)
BOX SCORE

POSITIVES
–In the seventh inning, uber-prospect Devin Mesoraco made his major league debut. On the first pitch, Mesoraco doubled off the wall. Welcome to the big leagues, Devin Mesoraco!

–Edgar Renteria went 3-4 with a double, a run scored, and an RBI.

–Jay Bruce had a couple of hits, including his 29th homer, a 2-run shot off our old friend Arthur Rhodes.

NEGATIVES
–Poor outing by Homer Bailey: three innings, four earned runs on six hits and a walk.

–Chris Heisey went 0-4, struck out twice, and made an error. He’s had better days.

NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–Not much else to say. Reds try to win the series tomorrow.

29 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap

  1. I’ve had my doubts about Bailey for awhile now. Tonight’s performance didn’t help erase them. It seems as if we are always waiting on his potential. He has his occasional blowouts like tonight and his less occasional great outings. But it seems like we usually hear he pitched pretty good except for that one inning or until…

    I’m convinced that Homer is what we are seeing of him this year – a .500 pitcher with a 4+ ERA. He may stick around long enough to have that one really good year, but I don’t see it happening on a regular basis.

  2. I was disappointed they did not leave Meso in to catch the rest of the game. Seemed to me the natural thing to do. I suppose they had it figured that Massett would pitch the 8th and did not want to use him because of that. But come Monday (when Meso is the scheduled starter behind the plate) if the situation dictated they use somebody he hasn’t caught yet, are they going to take him out???

  3. It certainly seemed like a NO MAS Roberto Duran type exit for Homer today. That was disappointing. It will be interesting to see if there are any post games comments from Homer or Dusty or Price about his performance and departure.

    • It certainly seemed like a NO MAS Roberto Duran type exit for Homer today. That was disappointing. It will be interesting to see if there are any post games comments from Homer or Dusty or Price about his performance and departure.

      That was the strangest event. How often have we ever seen a pitcher not come back out early in the game without it involving a pinch hitter?

  4. How about a bit of a flyer here as it is September and the season’s over Play the youngsters and let them learn the game at this level.
    Philips 2nd
    Alonzo Lf
    Votto 1st
    Bruce Rf
    Mesoraco C
    Farzier SS
    Arroyo
    Better to win 11-8 than lose?

  5. @MikeC: Homer has certainly grown up a lot mentally but he still has real issues when things go awry.

    • @MikeC: Homer has certainly grown up a lot mentally but he still has real issues when things go awry.

      Outside of the triple, how many of the other five hits were hard hit? He had a 7 – 0 GB to FB ratio today.

  6. @Y-City Jim: I listened to the AAA audio feed one night when Homer was rehabbing at Louisville.

    It turned out to be a lot like this evening’s game. He got nickelled and dimed in two consecutive innings to the tune of 4 or 5 runs total. Many of the hits came in counts in Homer’s favor; and in one of the two innings, he allowed the entire uprising after 2 were out and nobody was on (believe it was 4 straight singles with a stolen base or two mixed in which yielded two runs). I’d guess the issue on that night and perhaps to night is that he was missing just enough hop on his fast ball to be able to put folks away.

    I understand wanting to end an inning with the #8 hitter so the pitcher leads off the next inning; but, once the count ran out to full on Laird, I think you have to be willing to walk him, i.e. don’t throw a strike and hope he gets himself out, and then go after the pitcher with the bases loaded if that is the result.

  7. @SFredsfan: I followed the Louisville box scores and play by play recaps with some regularity this summer.

    As individuals and as a group, those guys could put up some real offensive numbers. I don’t know that I accept that there is such a thing as group synergy in a baseball lineup; and, this is the big leagues and not AAA. However it would be interesting to see that crew run out as a group in a game or two that could not possibly reflect on the outcome of the playoff races (i.e. versus the Cubs or Rockies on this trip).

    Might as well go whole hog and put Sappelt in for Stubbs if they do that as he was part of the group and performed very well in AAA. Valaika was also part of the group but languished most of the season although he did get hot the last couple of weeks.

  8. @OhioJim:
    I am too old to go for the whole hog- prefer a bit of the hog I know and a bit of the hog I pray it will become! There are a lot of players in play so to speak, yet this Sept. we better go young of Dusty must be run out of town. Lets find out what we have!

  9. @MikeC: Don’t quite see how Bailey had that “one bad inning” today. Seems like he just pitched badly. Every time he pitches poorly it seems like everyone wants to determine that it was because he loses focus. Today I suppose the argument is that he gave up a hit to Garcia after the error. Well, that’s proof…really?

  10. In irritating news, Cordero wants to stay on the Reds and “work something out”, and Dusty wants him back. Dusty is surely going to lobby for him. It’s going to be a train wreck.

  11. @Dave Lowenthal: Cordero… He got a big splash on FoxOhio the other night. Says he wants to to retire as a Red. The guys in the radio booth brought it up too. Sounds to me like CoCo’s agent must have told him to launch a PR campaign.

    Probably a deal cooking internally between the factions in management. That would be the guys who want Chapman in the rotation can have him if they will line up in favor of bringing back CoCo.

    • OhioJim: Probably a deal cooking internally between the factions in management. That would be the guys who want Chapman in the rotation can have him if they will line up in favor of bringing back CoCo.

      For better AND for worse, I think all signs are pointing to Chapman starting in 2012 and Cordero is the closer. The Chapman part is great. I like CoCo but $12 M is way way too much. CoCo has been effective this season, thanks to throwing 3 pitches for strikes most of the time, but the signs of decline are there – a reduced K rate, less velocity on his fastball.

      An extension beyond 2012, which is what he wants, would be a disaster. Think of the Rolen and Arroyo extensions.

  12. About Chapman…. Brantley (who I realize is not part of the management team) made a strong statement Friday night that Chapman is not ready to be a rotation pitcher. Says that he hasn’t shown that he can command his first two pitches let along a third pitch which he would need as a starter.

    I believe this was during the beat reporter segment and Fay or Marty said well they know he can’t handle the appearance frequency to be closer. Brantley said so, that means you put in in the rotation and stress the bullpen because he can’t go more than 3 or 4 innings an outing as a starter?????

    I’m not really sure what Brantley thought was the solution. I think either put at AAA next year to grow his way into being a starter or else just keep using him as they have this year and try to build his innings some.

    • OhioJim: About Chapman…. Brantley (who I realize is not part of the management team) made a strong statement Friday night that Chapman is not ready to be a rotation pitcher. Says that he hasn’t shown that he can command his first two pitches let along a third pitch which he would need as a starter.

      I believe this was during the beat reporter segment and Fay or Marty said well they know he can’t handle the appearance frequency to be closer. Brantley said so, that means you put in in the rotation and stress the bullpen because he can’t go more than 3 or 4 innings an outing as a starter?????

      I’ve heard Brantley talk about Chapman a number of times. He feels Chapman will be a starter and has ace potential but needs to be brought along slowly. He has said that it’s hard for fans to understand the off the field adjustments Chapman has had to make, and those are still an issue.

      It’s clear to anyone that Chapman needs to improve command of his fastball and slider. In recent outings he’s walked a lot of people and seldom thrown the slider. Price – in an interview that was recently posted on RLN – has said the best thing for Chapman would be to move into the starting rotation. He seemed to feel that could be done next season at the major league level. He pointed out that if Chapman is pitching regularly once every 5 days, that gives him (Price) more opportunities to work with Aroldis.

      It’s a blessing in disguise that Chapman’s arm does not respond well to the frequent outings required of relievers. In the end I think that will tip the scales toward his NOT closing.

  13. The Reds need to do something about that rotation next year. Bailey has been terribly inconsistent. He may click down the line, but thus far he’s shown no signs of coming around. Wood took a big step back this year, and Volquez is very suspect. I think Bronson is lying about his health, but nonetheless the terrible season he’s had is very concerning. It sounds like Chapman will be a starter next year, but having only thrown 50 innings this year, how long will he last? Not to mention some command issues. Don’t get me wrong, I want him in the rotation, I’m just afraid he might have issues next year.

    The best chance for them to get a good starter is via trade. Good luck on that.

    Marty Brennaman is getting annoying. He calls an outstanding game, sure, but his sideshow is old. I don’t know what Jay Bruce ever did to him, but it must have been something bad. He’s going on this big anti-Bruce campaign during his broadcasts, the same way he did with Dunn. Someone I guess mentioned to Dusty pregame Bailey was only 25, and Baker said how you have to start looking at results, not age, and then Marty says “He may have also been talking about Bruce.” Good lord. Then he’s crying after Garcia struck Bruce out, even though Garcia is a tough lefty. Of course, Bruce hits the homer today and Marty backs off. Hehe.

  14. I presume this will make it on the DOTF thread later, but anyway Billy Hamilton stole 3 bases yesterday to reach the 100 total. Since the all star break, he’s batted .318/.380/.388. That’s a big improvement over the first half.

  15. @Y-City Jim:

    Outside of the triple, how many of the other five hits were hard hit? He had a 7 – 0 GB to FB ratio today.

    Exactly my point, Jim. Almost every outing, Homer has done well except for…
    He’s proven to be an inconsistent pitcher not only over the length of a season, but through the course of a game. It doesn’t make him useless, but he’s looking more and more like a bottom of the rotation pitcher.

  16. I think we know what we have in Homer now and that is a guy who will never live up to his top prospect hype but who could be a serviceable end of the rotation starter. There is nothing about his performance over 4 seasons that points to any other conclusion.

  17. IMO

    I am in the Brantley corner on this one. If the Reds were to make Chapman a starter at this point his pitch count would be 100 after 4 innings every time out. Which would burn a bullpen in a hurry and his innings count would be 80 after 20 starts. Pretty much the season. Either you leave in the pen for now or AAA to learn to start and build innings per game.

    Hopefully the Reds have learned a lesson about paying too much for the aging veteran because unless Cordero realizes that the Reds can’t afford his option. It may bruise his ego and he may find a better deal out in the market just like Arthur Rhodes. If he would take 4-5 mill for 1 and only a 1 year deal then maybe. If not then Homer may be better suited as a closer than anyone else. More pitches and better control of them.

    Arroyo has not been healthy all year and has been lying about it. It may be time to move him to the pen since (They’re stuck with the contract) they signed him to such a long term deal for way too much money Big mistake for a club with a limited payroll. A 1 year offer, take or leave it, would have been better and learn to move on. This contract with the other veteran contracts have now set this team back.

    Same with Phillips who has now see everyone else get paid / extended and is now lobbying for his share. This is bad timing because he deserves to get paid more than Bruce, Arroyo, Cordero or Rolen does just based on performance. At this point you pick up the option and as much as I hate to say it you may lose him next year because even though he says he wants to stay, he wants to be paid more than keep his current address. Make him available to trade but only for front line pitching.

  18. @George Culver: I’m a big fan of BP, but including him in a trade for front line pitching may be the way to go now. He’s already made it clear that if he doesn’t get the kind of contract extension he wants – before the 2012 season – then he’s going to be an unhappy camper.
    An unhappy BP situation would get ugly very quickly.

  19. @George Culver: CoCo is gockloadeding to want the option payout ($1M?) buried in the extension if they do it. That puts him above market for a single year deal I would think. I’ll take a flyer and say he is looking for the entire $12M plus the buyout in his current deal rolled into the extension. So, $13M guaranteed over two years would be my guess at the minimum it is going to take. These back loaded deferred comp deals are just like the thinking that got our economy on the skids because eventually they start coming due and steal from the present to pay for the past

  20. @OhioJim: Jeez. My keyboard went crazy. That first sentence above was meant to be:

    “CoCo is going to want the option payout ($1M?) buried in the extension if they do it.”

  21. Just for the record he already does get paid more than Bruce, Rolen and Arroyo. He gets paid the same as Cordero. The only person who thinks BP is underpaid is BP. No one is going to pay him what he thinks he’s worth.

    For the record BP makes 4x more than Bruce, twice as much as Rolen and when you factor in deferred money about 3x as much as Bronson. This year only Cordero will be paid more (12M vs. 11M) and funny that these are the two claiming they love Cincy. They love the money The Reds are willing to pay them.

  22. i know this is a few days old, but i just wanted to put in a few thoughts on bailey because i was looking at his numbers today.

    his ERA+ this year is 85, solidly below average, and his career mark is 84. he’s shown signs of life, but he has every year, this year hasn’t really been much better.

    he will set his high innings mark, but it will likely be around 130, so hardly anything to brag about.

    i don’t understand why he always get a pass on being in the rotation next year, at least with the media and seemingly with management.

    why can’t he be tried in the pen? i think he’s the one it makes the most sense to move there because he could probably add to his fastball, and he’d only need one other pitch. his secondary stuff has never been good enough to be a good starter.

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