Anyone out there still think the Reds have a chance at a .500 season?

37 Responses

  1. Adam

    I think .500 is still within reach. Playoffs? Maybe not, but we were swept by the same team who was ‘out of it’ last August. I do think that we wouldn’t be hurt by swapping a few players. Of the one’s who could potentially help another team, I was thinking…

    1. Valentin or Bako. Bako’s value has never been higher…I really don’t understand why they haven’t utilized Valentin with the Volquez/Cueto combo. The communication would be stellar and is Bako really that big of an upgrade on either side of the ball?

    2. Arroyo. If they get another quality start from him, I would think the writing would be on the wall.

    3. Encarnacion. He’s young and can be a great player…I don’t see him in my future plans though. Keppinger would be fine at third…thoughts on that move?

    4. Any package that includes Fogg, Affeldt and/or Patterson. If we really want to land a decent anything…throw in Bailey to sweeten the deal.

  2. Sultan of Swaff

    It’s really going to be tough. Unless we rattle off a winning streak soon against these other also-rans, we’ll pay for it in September when we play a bunch of games vs. the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. I’ll put the odds at 6-1. Was anyone else as disgusted as me (and apparently Brantley) over the half-assed attempts at catchable liners by Griffey (twice Saturday) and Dunn (once yesterday)? To that end, I’d wish someone would pose the question to Jocketty like this: “Walt, we understand you have not been receiving offers that you consider equal value lately, but what would you say to the fans who’ve endured 7 years of losing that believe there is either or both a lack of chemistry or a culture of losing that has to be fundamentally adjusted?”. I’d be quite curious to hear whether he believes this problem can be corrected in-house or that we need to look outside the organization for players who embody the sort of change we need. My guess is that it will have to come from outside when Dusty Baker is your manager.

  3. Sultan of Swaff

    Is anyone else ready to abandon the EdE project at third and pull a Braun? We have an opening or two in the outfield next season.

  4. Kerm

    I am reminded of the beginning of the season when Coco was signed and all of the talk was that the reds must be in win now status. Well after the disappointment of the first half of the season where are we at? I personally don’t care about the .500 landmark. Why mortgage the future for mediocrity? I think the pitching staff will be better next year with all of our young guns being another year more experienced, and Harang being healthy. The only reason I really see to dump players is if you have a free agent in mind that you want to go for. Take another losing season this year if it means we have a better shot at the playoffs next year.

  5. Jeff Gentil

    As long as they play good teams the rest of the way, the Reds have a shot. Apparently, playing crappy teams like the Rockies isn’t going to help their win percentage. It’s mind-bogging!!

  6. Y-City Jim

    Let me think a moment…

    NO. They do not have what it takes to get to .500 and above. By that, I mean they don’t have the brains to get there.

    It would be interesting to have the Reds take those personality/IQ tests that Paul Brown used to give players. I don’t think the scores would be very good.

  7. nick in va

    I’m thinking it will be another sub .500 season, but as soon as I say that they’ll win 5 out of 6 and get my hopes up again.

    My brother and his friend have EE at the top of their list of players that need to be moved. I don’t agree, but his fielding is not good. If Dunn isn’t resigned (I think he should be) I think EE should be moved to left field. Or put him in right if Griffey isn’t back.

  8. Mark in CC

    Before this weekend maybe, now not at all.

    The game on Saturday it was a toss up for the top worst of the game.
    1. David Letterman look-a-like bobblehead.
    2. Homer Bailey Batting Practice pitching.
    3. The jump Griffey got on routine flys.
    4 The Reds offense and defense as a whole.

    They stank the place up. I don’t think I will spend anymore money on them for a while.

  9. GRF

    My greater fear is that trying to hit .500 will prevent them from making moves to get better for next year. This team is not close enough to stand pat (nor can it with all the free agents).

  10. Chad

    Weren’t you the one who dreamed of a sweep?

    Yep, that was me. And I must have been dreaming.

  11. Dan

    I don’t see the allure of .500, personally.

    If I had a choice between going 81-81 with the current team or going 75-87 but making a move or two that sets the team up better for 2009 and beyond, I would MUCH rather take the 75-win option.

    I’m not saying that such a move is possible. It doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of interest in the guys we could deal.

    But still… the focus should be 100% on 2009 and beyond. I don’t care if we finish .500 this year.

  12. Dan

    Speaking of which… my #1 priority for the remainder of the season would be keeping the young arms healthy. Let’s be conservative w/ their innings and pitch counts from here on out. There’s just no point in pushing anything.

    That literally is the #1 most important thing the Reds can do over these next 2 months, in my opinion — most important thing for the future of the franchise.

  13. Mike

    No, unless they get rid of some of the deadwood.

  14. DB is a POS

    Not with Dusty Baker as our manager. Fire him and we’ll be MUCH better. I also agree with moving EE to LF or RF, depending on who leaves. He can be a good 3rd basemen, he is just too inconsistent though.

  15. AnnapolisRed

    No shot and I don’t care. The goal is to make the playoffs. I am definitely tired of seeing EdEEEEEE at third base and I’m all in favor of him moving to the OF.

  16. Ron

    There is no hope in Mudville. Our mighty “Casey” has grown old and the surrounding players are playing just like him. I am concerned about the effect this is having on Bruce. Instilling a losing atmosphere and poor fundamentals. If the rumors are true and Jr is sluffing off playing defense because he is grumpy that the Reds havent picked up his extention for ’09 … that is just another reason to let him walk. Dunner & Jr need to be let go. Yes, I know we cant replace Dunn’s production, but we cant seem to win with him either, so what are we really losing? Its time to cut bait and let the kids in there. We cant point to the pitching this year and say that is the reason we arent winning. Our offense is so inconsisant it reeks. The only reason they have respectable stats is because they get hot for short streaks and then fade back into mediocrity. If you cant hit a guy that came in with a 6+ ERA (which this team does on a regular basis) then you have no business drawing a multi-million dollar paycheck. Period. And this isnt just about Dunn, its about all of them than are making more than they are worth. Throw in how bad the defense has been outside of Phillips & Bruce, and its is a wonder this team is even this close to .500 … Im ready to see hungry players out on that field. I have said it before and I will say it again. I’d rather see a bunch underpaid rooks playing thier hearts out and lose, than watching overpaid “vets” half heartedly watch what should be sure outs, fall in front of them for hits.

  17. Mark in CC

    Adam writes we should trade Bako because his value has never been higher. Who would trade anything of value for a 35+ .220 hitting catcher.
    You are right his value is as high as it has ever been but no one was knocking down his door before.

    Trade Patterson? Who would make that trade?

    Trade Fogg? Same question.

    Ross has maybe the most value to teams including the Reds. Who catches next year? There won’t be any free agent catchers and no one in the system seems to be ready.

    Arroyo and Affeldt have some value but their consistency and pricetags make them salary dumps rather than getting much value. If traded they will not bring value it return.

    When you think of trading EE think of the Pirates and Aramis Ramirez. Their careers are pretty similar. Think Pitts would like to have that one back.

    With the emergence of Tampa Bay this year the Reds might now challenge with Pittsburgh for the worst MLB Franchise.

  18. GRF

    According to one of the rumor blogs (I forget which one) the Reds supposedly have a scount in Texas looking at their catcher Laird. Not sure what they would be offering in return…

  19. Chris

    No way.

    I just wanted to add that Jeff Keppinger has absolutely no range at shortstop. None. Zero. A statue. Makes Jeter look like Ozzie Smith. I was at Saturday night’s abomination, and that was strikingly evident.

  20. Dan

    Maybe another worthwhile use of the remaining 2 months is to see if Brandon Phillips is a good SS. Maybe play Phillips at SS and Keppinger at 2B every day?

    Maybe try EE in the OF some?

    These are all things that could help the team next year and beyond — to at least know what we’ve got and what the possibilities are.

  21. somethingbetter

    i am going to put it out there…maybe i am delusional.

    lets call the red sox and see what they want for Manny. defensively, he is a Dunn, offensively, it not even fair to compare Manny to Dunn. And for the option to pick up Manny for two more years at 20 mill/yr, it might be worth it in Cincy. He is exactly the RH bat the Reds need. Maybe the media scrutiny wouldn’t be so bad as the Reds are small market anyway. Maybe Manny would like that better. maybe the red sox do it for to stiff Manny.

    call me crazy, call me delusional, but I am ready to change something, anything with this current team.

  22. Mark in CC

    Correct about Keppinger’s range. You could overlook it a little when he was hitting .320. Not so easy at .275.

    No matter how much we like the guy he projects long term in a utility role.

    If he is healthy Alex Gonzalez will be there in ’09. He is making to much money not to.

  23. GRF

    Mark, I really hope you are wrong about that last sentence. The money is sunk at this point, if Gonzalez’s defense keeps in the lineup great but I am hoping (maybe too optimistically) that the front office is past the “we are paying him too much not to play him” thing.

  24. Mark in CC

    It is always about the money (why do you think Corey Patterson spent so much time in the starting line-up if they weren’t obligated to pay $3 million). All teams are like that. Think Andru Jones is going to play they next few years in LA even though he isn’t producing. There are several million dollars that say so.

    But two things along with those lines with Gonzo.
    1. If you are paying him the Reds can not afford to pay someone else so he has to play.
    2. If he is healthy he is the best option.

  25. Y-City Jim

    According to one of the rumor blogs (I forget which one) the Reds supposedly have a scount in Texas looking at their catcher Laird.

    I don’t get the attraction with Laird. He certainly isn’t any better than what we currently have.

    As for moving Encarnacion, who do we have in the pipeline that is better? Don’t move a person unless you have an upgrade ready to step in.

  26. Relient k car

    honestly yea
    gonzo hit like 275 for us with 16 homers. not horrible.

    Colorado is interested in Arroyo and Fogg
    i would like to see both gone
    and they have a AA prospect who i think the reds would like.
    he is a center fielder and leadoff guy
    he is great. 4got his name tho

  27. Phill

    Mark in CC, If you want examples of worse clubs look west.

    Am I the only one sick of the whole culture of losing excuse for wanting to firebomb the whole franchise?

    The idea that players are complacent with losing because they never tasted victory is preposterous.

    Griffey made the postseason twice, Alex Gonzalez has a WS ring.Paul Bako has made it to the postseason 3 times.Bronson Arroyo has a WS ring. David Ross made it to the postseason. Jeremy Affeldt made it to the World Series. Andy Phillips has made it to the postseason. Jolbert Cabrera has made it to the postseason.

    Also as far as Manny Ramirez goes…look at how insanely angry people get over Griffey admiring a long single(Ramirez did it last year IN THE POSTSEASON). Or Dunn’s seemingly lazy attitude toward defense. Manny would be worse and cost more.

  28. Phill

    Forgot to add that David Weathers has a WS ring as well.

  29. Phill

    Third post now…my kingdom for an edit button!

    I just wanted to say that if it looks like it I’m not trying to single anyone out or attack anyone on here. It’s just frustration venting out. We all want the same thing in the end: a winning Reds team.

  30. Matt B.

    Another ESPN rumor:

    Rockies like Arroyo

    Bronson Arroyo, who recently expressed his desire to stay in Cincinnati, may not get his wish, as the Colorado Rockies are interested in acquiring the right-handed starter.

    Arroyo’s back-loaded contract which guarantees him $23 million over the next two seasons will not be an obstacle in negotiations since the Reds are not against picking up some of that money if the teams can agree on the players involved, the Rocky Mountain News reports.

  31. AnnapolisRed

    Phill-Only problem with your post is that Manny Ramirez is a whole lot better than Dunn and Griffey (the Griffey today).

  32. Phill

    Offensively, no doubt about it. Defensively I don’t know about that. I just don’t think his antics would be well received in Cincinnati.

  33. Matt Steele

    Getting Manny Ramirez for only half of the season with absolutely 0 chance of resigning him is the most ludicrous idea of this board yet. What will that do? Add a win or two? Maybe, but that gives us nothing. Besides, Manny is an incredibly selfish player. As good as hitter as he is, he’s just as bad a teammate. Go to ESPN and read Peter Gammon’s blog.

    As for trade rumors, new post on the ESPN trade blog is that the Reds have told clubs that Arroyo is NOT available anymore.

    Keppinger is a good role player, but at 28, he’s probably reached his peak and his career stats aren’t fantastic. Alex Gonzalez should be our starting SS next year and Kepp can play the Ryan Freel role in the infield.

    E.E. is having a decent offensive year, (actually if you check his stats over hte past 30 days you might be surprised) though the low amount of RBI’s is a little surprising. He’ll never be a great defensive 3b but he is nowhere near as bad as Ryan Braun was with the glove.

    If we had a better 3b in the minors coming up, I’d say let’s try him in the OF, but we don’t really so if we can’t trade him (and I don’t want to) then let’s see what he can develop into, he’s only 25.

    I have given my views on Adam Dunn a million times on here, and so all I’ll say is that I saw above where someone had said, we haven’t really won with him so what’s the loss.

    It’s not Adam Dunn’s fault that we haven’t made the playoffs. If you want to use him as the scapegoat then you are ignoring the real problems with the team. I would not be surprised to see someone like Boston go after him in the offseason if we can’t get a deal done for him. If anyone thinks we can replace Dunn’s production next year without any significant additions to the team (and it would have to be through trade since there’s not a lot available in the free agent market) then you’re crazy lol

  34. Andrew

    If you can’t win 90, you might as well lose 90. Trade anything you can that’s not in the long term plans (Griffey? Arroyo? Ross, just because he’s the only catcher that could bring anything in a trade – Red Sox maybe?). Being 81-81 is awful, awful, awful.

  35. earl

    I don’t see why to get rid of Bronson Arroyo. He is signed for two more years at a price that we could not get a comparable pitcher on the free agent market. The guy can put up some innings, which if you go with all farm hands, you might not get and the bullpen will get ate up. Arroyo’s not great, but the guy has some value and is fine for what he is which is a number 3 or 4 starter.

    At least going by what I have seen this year, I think Dunn has been really trying on defense. The guy moves like the Hulk out there, but I think there has been some improvement on if he gets to the ball on hitting the cut off throw and making the smart play. Dunn is never going to be great out there, but I don’t think it is comparible to something like Griffey’s leisurely strolling after those pop flies which fell for a couple of singles on Saturday’s game.

    Take a good look at Adam Dunn in the next couple of days in Houston, as I have a feeling he will be there next season.

  36. earl

    I’m also a bit more forgiving on Edwin Encarnacion. It is obvious that he can field the position at times, even make the spectacular play. I think he has improved a little bit over the past couple of seasons, even if there is a long way to go. He still has way more upside than probably anyone else the Reds can put at the position. Encarnacion at the plate looks like guy who is right on the cusp of being a big bat.

    I love watching Keppinger play, but the guy is never going to put up much more than what he has done. There is just not enough punch to think of him as a regular at third.

    I think the Reds should have swapped Phillips around last year to short, but management seems to think it will blow his mind or mess up his game.