Afternoon delight today, with Bronson Arroyo pitching against Greg Maddux. Yeah, the good guys blew game one of the series, but they can still win two out of three with a victory in today’s get-away game.

Discuss it here, if you are trying to avoid actually working today….

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Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at

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65 Responses

  1. Y-City Jim

    Another interesting Cincinnati Reds line-up:

    Jay Bruce cf
    Jeff Keppinger ss
    Ken Griffey Jr. rf
    Brandon Phillips 2b
    Adam Dunn lf
    Edwin Encarnacion 3b
    Javy Valentin c
    Joey Votto 1b
    Bronson Arroyo p

  2. Y-City Jim

    That’s right, Reds fans. Javier Valentin is the starting catcher for the sixth time this year, and Joey Votto is batting 8th. Commence with head scratching.

  3. Y-City Jim

    Had to be Dunn:

    Someone left Fogg a black t-shirt with “Sorry . . . about your face” on it.

  4. Fire Dusty Baker

    That article has no merit to it whatsoever.
    “Player to watch: Rickie Weeks, Brewers”

    |Enough said. BS.

    Votto batting 8th? WTF? Punishment for hurting Fogg?

  5. Kevin

    Trade rumors that Yankees have interest in Arroyo and Dunn. Imagine what we could get if we sent both of them. (I personally want Dunn resigned and am going back and forth with trading Arroyo, but packaging them could get us a lot of stuff).

  6. Kevin

    Also…that article could at least explain why it says “Avert your eyes” for Edinson Volquez…I might actually believe that he’s going to continue downhill as the heat rises. This is something we all talked about because he pitched so much in winter ball. But the guy has to explain himself, especially since picked Volquez as their prediction for the Cy Young award a week ago.

    Also….Cardinals, Brewers, Marlins, and Phillies all fade and Braves take the wildcard is his prediction. hahahaha

  7. AnnapolisRed

    Another interesting note.

    Free Agent Compensation
    By Tim Dierkes [July 23 at 10:30am CST]

    Here’s a reminder of how free agent compensation works in baseball, with Adam Dunn as the example.

    The Reds have the choice of offering Dunn arbitration after the season. If Dunn accepts, the Reds get him for ’09 at a salary determined by the arbitration process. He’s earning $13MM in ’08 and having a typical year, so the process would result in an even higher salary for ’09. (Occasionally a player accepts arbitration when the team didn’t expect him to, like Greg Maddux and the Braves in ’02.) If the Reds don’t offer Dunn arbitration, he becomes a free agent and the Reds get nothing.

    A player can either be classified as Type A, Type B, or nothing based on his stats from the previous two seasons. Dunn should rank as a Type A since the classification formula looks at PA, AVG, OBP, HR, and RBI for 1Bs, OFs, and DHs (4 out of 5 ain’t bad for Dunn).

    If the Reds offer Dunn arbitration, he may decline because he prefers to play elsewhere or prefers to seek a multiyear free agent contract. If he declines the Reds’ offer and signs elsewhere, the Reds will receive two draft picks.

    Let’s say the Yankees sign Dunn. The Reds will then receive one ’09 draft pick from the Yankees. If the Yankees have, say, the 22nd overall pick next June, the Reds get that in addition to their own normal first round pick. The Reds also get a supplemental draft pick squeezed in between the first and second round of the draft.

    The Reds only get the Yankees’ first-round pick if it falls between #16-30. The first 15 picks are protected. So if the Nationals sign Dunn, the Reds are kind of screwed because they do not get the Nats’ #2 overall pick. Instead, they get the Nats’ second round pick and the supplemental pick.

    A free agent can also be classified as a Type B based on his stats from 2007-08. This might happen with Jon Garland. Say the Angels offer him arbitration and he declines and then signs with the Dodgers. The Dodgers would not give up any draft picks, but the Angels would get an extra pick between the first and second round.

    Third possibility – the free agent is not classified as Type A or B, and there is no draft pick compensation.

    Over the years, many quality players have been drafted as the result of free agent compensation. Recent examples include Conor Jackson, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Glen Perkins, Huston Street, Phil Hughes, Clay Buchholz, Jacoby Ellsbury, Joba Chamberlain, Colby Rasmus, and Ian Kennedy.

    I owe most of my understanding of free agent compensation to ESPN’s Keith Law. Check out his blog post on the topic from ’06 as well as an MLBTR post about the ranking formulas based on info provided by Keith.

  8. Y-City Jim

    Kevin, do the Yankees have much in the way of prospects? They have been pretty weak in that area in recent years. Send them Arroyo and Junior instead.

  9. GregD

    Perhaps with Posada’s potential for season-ending surgery, the Yankees are inquiring about Valentin, and that (along with other teams who may be interested) is why he’s gotten playing time the last two days. Gotta figure at least 1 of the FA catchers are going to be moved by July 31.

  10. Y-City Jim

    That’s what I wondered, Greg. If a catcher goes then Valentin has to finally catch, here or there.

  11. Y-City Jim

    With the prognosis for recovery being 4 to 6 weeks, would the Reds actually have Freel play in September?

  12. Y-City Jim

    Javy goes JACK CITY!!!

    Dusty is brilliant!!!

  13. nick in va

    Valentin goes deep. Game is tied up.

  14. Sultan of Swaff

    Considering what the Phillies gave for Blanton (2 top ten prospects), you gotta entertain any and all offers for Arroyo, who I consider to be more valuable. If Homer can be league average or better and Thompson can contribute in a meaningful way next year, all you have to do is sign an insurance 5th starter. You would free up a lot of money to spend on filling holes. Either way, you’re left with depth and financial flexibility.

  15. Kevin

    Arroyo with a single in the 8th. I guess we need to find someway to avoid having Cordero in a save situation.

  16. nick in va

    Junior just missed a homer. Went for a double. Thom just said that Junior is now tied for the team lead in doubles with 20.

  17. CeeKeR

    Griffey’s double gives the Reds a tiny bit of breathing room…

  18. Derek in Ontario

    Arroyo’s average on the season is now .189. That’s good enough to start in CF!

  19. renbutler


    Dang, I wish I could watch this one.

  20. BenL

    DUNN!!!!!! Man, I wish I didn’t share my office. That would make my jumping up and down, screaming, and fist pumping more socially appropriate…

  21. nick in va

    Step away for a minute and miss a grand slam…..

  22. Jack

    So does this mean people won’t call in and complain and say how we need to trade him?

  23. Bill

    Nah Jack, people will be complainin’ he didn’t hit a 5 run homer…

  24. renbutler

    I think Cordero should pitch the 9th with a five-run lead. Build some confidence without the pressure.

  25. renbutler

    Nope it’s Coffey, but perhaps the same thinking.

  26. Jared

    I don’t think a hit that turns your 1-run lead in to a 5-run lead is meaningless.

  27. Kevin

    oh my gosh todd coffey’s pitching! hahaha

  28. renbutler

    And now the tying run in in the hole. It’s a save situation now, isn’t it?

  29. renbutler

    And now the tying run in on deck. Coffey. Grrrr.

  30. renbutler

    Cordero in for the (hopefully) last out.

  31. Kevin

    here comes Cordero…………..uh oh

  32. renbutler

    Walked in a run. Tying run at the plate. Unbelieveable.

  33. mhopp

    Cordero walks a run in, what’s wrong with him? Dusty uses Coffey in an appropriate (as appropriate as can be in the Majors) and Cordero comes in and walks a run in. Does this team want to win?

  34. Derek in Ontario

    It wasn’t pretty at the end, but it still counts.

  35. renbutler

    Cordero gets the save.

    Regroup, sweep the Rockies.

  36. mhopp

    jeesh, a win agains the 2nd worst team in majors goes down to the last out with a 5 run lead. unreal. Whew

  37. John of Muncie

    They should’ve DFA’d Todd Coffey a LONG time ago.

  38. per14

    If you take out Arroyo’s stinkers against the Blue Jays (10 ER/1 IP) and Braves (7 ER/1.1 IP), his season era is a pretty solid 4.36. I know you can’t just “take away” those two games. They really should trade him if they can however. Clear up that salary.

  39. per14

    And what a season EdE is having. That is one solid bright spot. It’s unfortunate he was almost impossibly bad in May (OPS about .450), because every other month, he’s been above .900.

  40. Shane

    people will be complainin’ he didn’t hit a 5 run homer

    Well. He didn’t.

  41. per14

    Anyone think the Reds can go 40-19 and win 90 games? That might put them right there in the playoff hunt. I think it is going to be awfully hard but not impossible. Harang has to come back strong (looking unlikely) and Cordero needs to be the lights-out closer he is being paid to be (looking unlikely). So, yeah…

  42. Shane



  43. Steve

    40-19? No way.

    But 35-24 is not unrealistic, even if they do a bit of a firesale. Shoot, darn near ANY MLB team can post 2 relatively hot months to put together a decent record like that.

    The problem NOW has become that it doesn’t look like 85 wins is going to be good enough to pull of the wild card – which at the beginning of the season most us probably though WOULD actually do the trick.

    IMO, it IS going to take 40-19 the rest of the way to have a realistic shot.

    And, um, unfortunately that’s NOT realistic.

  44. Steve

    Oh yeah, and Dunn sucks. He couldn’t hit a 5-run shot. 😉

  45. Mike Martz

    This would have been a good day to call in sick and watch the REDs play. 😀

  46. Y-City Jim

    I walked into the eye doctor just before Edwin hit his blast and then missed the rest of the game while in there for an eye exam. That was one quick game by today’s standards.

    On the Hutson Street rumor, we aren’t going to trade Dunn for a reliever are we? Come on! We been down this road before. I know the Dunn value is increasing but unless Edwin is going to fill the offensive void this team cannot afford to let the Big Donkey go.

  47. Y-City Jim

    IMO, it IS going to take 40-19 the rest of the way to have a realistic shot.

    And, um, unfortunately that’s NOT realistic.

    What was that run by Sparky and the BRM that one year? 43-7 or something like that? I know this team is a far cry from the BRM and Dusty ain’t no Sparky Anderson.

  48. Steve

    Yeah, wasn’t the 1970 team something like 70-30 in the first 100 games and then played about .500 the rest of the way while coasting to the division title?

  49. Steve

    Honestly, Y-City, I listened to Marty and Thom ridiculing the idea of the Dunn for Street rumor, and I couldn’t help but feel the same.

    I wish they’d just lock up Dunn and end the suspense. I can live with the streakiness, the strikeouts, and the poor D for what we get in return – LOTS of difficult to replace offense.

    Everything from simply getting on base with a high degree of regularity to a game-changing blast.

    He’s simply the only guy on the team anymore that we can rely on to do both. Junior only has those moments IRregularly now.

  50. Y-City Jim

    and I think a guy like Dunn is good for the clubhouse. Yes, there needs to be someone who calls people on the carpet but you also need someone like Dunn who is going to set a bag of poop on fire outside Dusty’s door.

  51. Shane

    he set patterson on on fire outside Dusty’s door?

  52. Kevin

    Bring back Pete Mackanin and we´ll go 40-19. Maybe we can get him from the Yankees for Arroyo.

    Also, Patterson and Baker make me pretty mad, but if the front office lets Dunn walk at the end of the year, it will absolutely top all things that have frustrated me in the 4 seasons since I started watching again.

  53. Kurt Frost

    would it really be so bad if dunn accepted arbitration and the reds had him for 1 year at market rate?

  54. Y-City Jim

    Shane – That’s a classic!

    Kurt – Not if Bobby Castelini is serious about winning ASAP.