Per Ken Rosenthal.

I do NOT like this move contract one bit.  (I think Cordero will probably be a good addition.  I just don’t like the dollars or contract length).   I’ll be back soon to explain why.  I’m confident that at least 20 relievers will be more productive over the span of this contract, AND will cost less than $10M for the whole period.  That’s not a knock on Cordero, it’s just the nature of the beast.
The Linebrink contract was silly. This one is for more than double the money.

Here’s why I don’t like this deal:

  • Cordero will be 33-36 during this deal. Few relievers are effective beyond age 34.
  • Cordero will be paid “closer money” four years from now. Few relievers remain at an elite level for four years, let alone seven or eight (assuming Cordero’s been elite for the past three).
  • Nearly $12M per year is just stupid money for a guy who’ll pitch 65-75 innings. Even if Dusty Baker were to use Cordero in every high-leverage situation, it’s a bad use of resources. And I can only assume that Baker will use Cordero only in the 9th inning, and only with leads of 3 or fewer runs.
  • By almost all accounts, Jared Burton has “closer stuff” and whatever intangible so-and-so needed to serve as closer, certainly as soon as 2009, at a price of around $600k. He’s now blocked by a guy making 20% more than Mariano Rivera.
  • The Reds reportedly outbid the Brewers by $1M per year. Can’t like that.
  • This presumably shoots the Reds wad for the 2007-08 off-season. And there’s still a hole in the rotation.
  • Cordero isn’t even a “big name” to satisfy Joe Sweatsock. I’m sure most WLW callers are saying “who?” right now. (Not really a negative to me, but if you’re paying premium-plus prices, you’re probably trying to make a splash.)

The good news is that his strikeout and walk rates were as good as they’ve ever been, and he keeps the ball in the ballpark.

Your thoughts?

Join the conversation! 88 Comments

  1. I should note: While I don’t like this deal, it’s far from the obvious disaster that the Eric Milton signing was. Cordero should be good, just not worth the money.

  2. I like the deal…. I would much rather have a stud closer at the back end of the pen than 2 or 3 Mike Stantons (which is what we could’ve gotten for 11 million per. I don’t really like the 4 years, but heres to hoping he stays healthy and at the top of his game.

  3. I have to admit, I’m thrilled, but in a guilty kind of way. I have the same concerns about Cordero’s age and his potential to remain effective over the life of the contract. But you have to admit that it’s refreshing to see the Reds be aggressive with their money. Is Eric Milton the last time we could really say that?? It’s been too long then.
    This definitely doesn’t put us in the playoffs. We’ve got too many OF, no bona fide OBP-guy for the top of the lineup (loved Norris Hopper’s August and September, but color me skeptical– and do you keep Hobbs on the bench to bat Hopp leadoff?), real questions about who bats second, and no depth in the IF (Jeff Kepp is a PH, but not a defensive mainstay). This doesn’t even discuss the issues with spots 3 – 5 in the rotation (Homer is likely one of those 3, but can we really expect Cole Hamels/Philip Hughes results from him? And Johnny Cueto is at least a year away). Long-winded way of saying that Krivsky’s going to have to be a lot more creative than just over-paying to get this team to the playoffs in ’08– or ’09 for that matter. In the meantime– WE GOT A CLOSER!! 😀

  4. Did we overpay? Yeah. I would rather overpay for good talent than pay market value for mediocre talent though. This gives the Reds a very solid 1-2-3 in the bullpen with Burton, Weathers and Cordero. That in turn helps out the starters.

    Also, he will have some solid trade value if we want to move him in favor of Burton in the closers role. Everyone is always looking for relief help, so his contract wouldn’t be hard to move if we wanted to get out from it.

    Plus, the alternative could have been handing out this contract to Carlos Silva….

  5. Hey– it’s not MY money. I agree that it’s too much money given his age and the typical peak period for a reliever. But it’s a guilty pleasure to see the Reds aggressive with their $$. Is it really since Eric Milton that we’ve been aggressive in FA?? Too long.
    This doesn’t put us in the playoffs– in ’08 OR ’09. We’ve go too many OF, no real leadoff or #2 hitter, no IF defensive depth (unless we all think Juan Castro will be ready for opening day– Freel and Keppinger are PH sparkplugs, but not defenders). Bailey will be a big league starter, but no sign yet of being Cole Hamels or Philip Hughes. Cueto is at least a year away. And bring your glove if you’ll sit behind 1B next year with Votto trying to flag down throws from EE5.
    But enough doom and gloom– we’ve got a CLOSER!!! 😀

  6. You also have to realize that this move hurts the Brewers, who between Cordero and Linebrink have lost both their closer and one of their primary set-up man.

  7. That’s almost Mariano Rivera money. Why didn’t we just sign him?

  8. Ellis, you make an excellent point. If the Brewers are the team to beat then they have become weaker.

  9. And we also kept him away from the Cubs and Astros, who were both rumored to be in the running to sign Cordero. Only Valverde had more saves than Cordero in all of baseball, and only KRod had more strikeouts. We just signed a top-4 closer in the NL (wagner, saito, hoffman, cordero) and a top-10 closer in all of baseball. I wouldn’t complain…

  10. Ugh.

    That’s all: Ugh.

  11. Well, I’m impressed that Castellini is willing to open the checkbook to get better.

    I’m glad we have a strikeout pitcher in the bullpen now too. (A low HR guy too, which is huge.) The Reds are a better team than they were yesterday.

    But I am unimpressed with the inability to find and trust young pitchers who can be almost this good for a TINY FRACTION of the money.

    You sign a guy who’s 32 and you’re paying for the best years of his career, but what you get is his age 33-36 seasons, and ALMOST EVERYONE declines at those ages.

    Frankly I didn’t think the Reds should sign a single free agent. It almost never turns out to be money well spent.

    Sigh… well, I love the Reds, so I hope I’m wrong!

  12. If we were one piece away, there would be less complaining, but this team needs sooo much more than a closer.

  13. I like the move.

    Cincinnati is not a “destination city” for most players and the team therefore must overpay for any player that they’re competing for. Granted Milwaukee isn’t much of a destination city either.

    Regarding the budget, we don’t know what numbers Krivsky is working with. Perhaps Castellini was so frustrated by last season that he has concluded that the budget needs to increase substantially. John Fay commented that there may be a substantial bump in the budget for next season – we shouldn’t assume that this is the only major addition for next season. He’s paying Baker $3.5 million a year if that tells you anything. Perhaps Baker was just happy to sign a $10.5 million contract after what happened with the Cubs, but there’s a very good chance that he insisted on more than the typical scrap heap additions to the bullpen that has been the pattern in past years…

  14. You never see the progressive and, well, “smart” franchises like Oakland and Atlanta making signings like this.

    By the way, I think the Rivera signing was also bad. Even for a Hall of Famer like him, paying $15 million a year for his age 38, 39, and 40 seasons strikes me as a terrible idea. (Hardly matters for the Yankees though, since they seem to have practically unlimited funds. Anyone remember the Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright signings?)

  15. I like that that the Reds have improved the bullpen … although I do feel that there’s better talent out there, especially for that amount of money … but Cordero is much better than what the Reds had last season, imo

  16. Oh, I’ll return to one other theme I posted about last week… This signing is “buying high” on a player.

    Phillips and Hamilton were FANTASTIC “buy low” trades/signings. Show me more of THAT, Wayne!

    Just to keep beating a dead horse, here are Dan’s Buy Low Candidates [TM] – via trade:

    P Jonathan Sanchez (SF)
    OF Carlos Quentin (ARI)

  17. You never see the progressive and, well, “smart” franchises like Oakland and Atlanta making signings like this.

    But they’ll ink Terance Long or take on Mike Hamptons contract without taking a hit?

  18. The problem with Quentin and Sanchez is that they are nationally known players so they are on everyone else’s “buy-low” list as well. Phillips and Hamilton were good buy-low moves because they were not so prominent as candidates.

  19. I really like this move!!!! Cordero was the best closer in the NL last year. This allows Weathers/Burton/Bray for 7th/8th. Cordero was lights out in our division, granted the contract was expensive, but guess what if you want to sign any pitchers, you are going to pay $$$. Now its time to refute your negative bullet points one by one
    -AGE—How old was Weathers last year? How about Rivera or Hoffman? This is a absolutely worthless to factor into any contract.
    -All MLB players that are good sign for 4+ years, if they have any kind of legitimate productivity.
    -Those 70 innings, are at the end of every game…..which are pretty freaking important. Just ask J Narron.
    -Burton is going to be around for awhile, and any good bullpen has 2 or 3 guys with “closer stuff.” How many years was Cordero “blocked” by Gagne? Every GOOD bullpen has 2 or 3 guys that are legitimate closers.
    -That’s how you steal from a division rival, buy outbidding them. Do you really think he is going to relocate for anything less than a 10% raise, I wouldn’t.
    -You have no idea what Krivsky has up his sleeve, or how deep the pockets are. I know I would rather take last years team and add 1 really good pitcher, than add 3 old risky guys.
    -Maybe he’s not a “big name,” but he was better than Billy Wagner and Mariano Rivera last year. He also had the best K:IP for a closer in league last year.

  20. I like the signing. The Reds weren’t going to sign any decent FA starters. When Lohse is one of the best out there, you just can’t sign em, so why not on the back end?

    I think this brings instant legitimacy to the Reds in a weak division. You have Harang and Arroyo to lead the charge with Belisle, Livingston, and Bailey to round out the rotation. Not so hateful in my opinion. The lineup will be strong and now the bullpen has a top flight closer, leaving the rest of the penners to move to their “natural” spots.

    I won’t argue with anyone that says the Reds overpaid, but I think it was a necessary step towards building a competitive franchise in 08. Hopefully the Reds can move an outfielder yet for a legitimate 3/4 starter…then I’ll be REALLY excited.

  21. Livingston won’t likely be ready for the beginning of the season, Josh.

  22. Well, if there are a lot of teams out there who are targeting Sanchez and Quentin, then I’m wrong and they’re not “buy low” guys.

    I suspect they’re not big names on other people’s lists though. Sanchez has been up and down between AAA and the majors and has been jerked between starting and relieving. Quentin had a miserable season and also was hurt a lot.

    We’ll see though.

  23. And Dave from Louisville, I would argue that age is actually one of the MOST important factors in projecting a player (and in rating a signing).

    A player who is 23 is probably going to get better.

    A player who is 33 is probably going to get worse.

    Of course there are exceptions, and I hope Cordero is one. I’m just saying, it’s not likely.

  24. Well, regardless of whether of not Livingston is ready for the start of the season, maybe the Reds use another person until Johnny Cueto is ready.

    The point is, the Reds don’t need to spend money on position players and there aren’t viable FA starters worth giving a contract to so why not spend on a top notch reliever?

    I’m sure Harang is glad he won’t have to run out there in the 10th inning anymore. 🙂

  25. This is a great deal.

    Of course, there are going to be a lot of wannabe GM’s around here that think we could trade Freel, Castro and Coffey for Brad Lidge, but the rest of us will recognize that this is a much needed upgrade to a bad bullpen.

  26. Brian, you inspired me to look up Terence Long and Mike Hampton.

    Oakland traded for Long when he was 23, basically straight-up for Kenny Rogers, who at the time was 34 and making $5 million a year. Long played for the A’s for 4 seasons, very cheaply (MLB minimum for a couple years, and by the end he was making about $2 million). Of course, he stunk for the last 2 years, and then they traded him (and Ramon Hernandez) and got Mark Kotsay. Not bad.

    Atlanta traded for Mike Hampton in 2002, and b/c Colorado and Florida paid so much of his contract, they basically got him on a 6-year deal for $48.5 million. Not bad by today’s standards (although 6 years is probably too long). He’s been hurt the last 2 years, but may be part of their rotation this year. (So far he’s only pitched about 430 innings for them.)

    At any rate… I’ll stand by my claim (and it has nothing to do with these two players). Oakland and Atlanta know not to overpay for closers.

  27. I like the move. The Reds had do to something with that dreadful bullpen. Yes, they need to make some subtractions from it,too, but this is a good addition. I don’t think you are going to get any quality pitcher–starter or reliever–to play at GABP without overpaying. GABP doesn’t need a humidor–it needs to give the balls a full shower before each game. This shows ownership is serious about improving the club.

  28. I like this move in so much as management realizes how bad that bullpen really is and is apparently not willing to settle for another season like we had last year.
    Did they pay too much? I think they did. That’s a potential downside. However, I don’t think you can pick up quality pitchers at bargan basement prices. Paying Cordero for the last 2 years of his contract could hurt the budget in the future, but for now, I’m all for it. Hat’s off to Mr. C for his willingness to spend some money. Neither Marge nor Linder would have ever signed this check.

  29. The other side is that while it may turn out to be a stupid move in the long run, if Krivsky had to spend this money, there were no bodies out there to fill the hole in the rotation. That hole will have to be filled internally or via trade. Lohse and Silva are the two “premiere” free agent pitchers, and yet both are below replacement level and guarantee that every year they get at 10+ million will return you below replacement level results. At least Cordero will provide above replacement level results which is better than I ever thought Krivsky would do.

  30. This makes me smile. A bullpen with Bray, Burton, Weathers and Cordero sounds pretty good. Get me a number 3 starter and resign Dunn and I will expect to take this division next year…and I think that Cordero is far from being a no-name closer. The arguments against him being too old and not going to be used to pitch many innings in a year as a closer seem silly. If a guy is in his 30’s, wouldn’t you only want to expose him sparingly anyhow to preserve him over the life of the contract? It’s a move, it’s a serious move and a legitimate attempt to improve a dreadful bullpen and while it cost us (a lot) of cash, it didn’t cost two position player starters, and we don’t have to employ Royce Clayton. It’s a good move.

  31. I think I agree with you, GC. While I don’t love this contract (or even like it), there were a lot stupider contracts Krivsky could’ve signed. I’m glad he already got Kyle Loshe out of his system, for example.

  32. I have no idea why a pitcher’s age is “silly” or “irrelevant.”

    But moving on to an optimistic look:

    Let’s compare Cordero’s ERA to the worst 75 relief innings from last year — i.e., the guys he’ll bump. I’ll leave out the real dreck (Stone, Guardado), and look at two significant problems: Stanton and Majewski pitched 80 IP and gave up 61 Runs. Given his 2007 Runs Allowed rate, Cordero would’ve given up 29 Runs in 80 IP.

    That’s 40 runs improvement, which is pretty awesome. The problem, of course, is that Stanton’s still under contract.

  33. Just to show you that all the Redleg Nation editors aren’t always on the same page, I think this was an outstanding move.

  34. I post as fast as I can, so my ill-informed, stat-abusing, and self-contradictory nonsense can be front and center. 😆

  35. As my mouth dropped by the announcement of this signing, I was instantly excited. No matter what, Cordero is going to improve the bullpen (the biggest concern heading into the free agent period).
    We also took him from the Brewers, a division rival.
    TO me, what this does, is automatically send the Reds to the top of contention pile in the Central. Contending teams have shown time and time again that the bullpen is very important to their late season success.
    Anyway, it was alot of money, perhaps too much, BUT, the bullpen was the key concern and we got perhaps the best reliever available. Thank you Cincinnati for giving me a reason to hope. . . finally

  36. In other news, the Angels will pay Torii Hunter (age 32) $90M over 5 years.

    Fancypants 2006 free agent Gary Matthews Jr. (a defensive-specialist CF, signed for 5/$50M) will head to the bench. Must be nice.

  37. Talk about overpaying. The Angels have the market cornered on overpayment of mediocre talent.

  38. By my math, they have $45M tied up in aging OFs (Vlad, Garret Anderson, Matthews and Hunter), and I thought they liked Willits and Figgins as high OBP guys at the top of the lineup.

  39. That’s a whole lot of money being spent on two CF’s, neither of whom I’d take over Hamilton.

    It’s amazing what unsubstantiated hype and hyperbolic sports journalism can buy a player these days. Torii Hunter gets vastly overpaid and Jimmy Rollins wins an MVP despite not having the best year out of anyone on his team or out of NL shortstops.

  40. The Angels needed to get younger in the outfield and instead brought in a guy older than Vlad. Maybe they have decided that Sabean is an evil genius and that they just love the things old guys have done in SF.

  41. Wow……..just wow. This is too cool for words. Finally, a bonafide move that signals this team is serious about winning a championship, not just being competitive. Be proud of your team. Have a legitimate reason to be optimistic. All those ‘ifs’ we bandy around prior to spring training can now be replaced with ‘should’. There are bankable players at nearly every key position, and that’s a lot more than we can say about our division rivals. The revenues in baseball have mor than doubled the last 6 years, this is money that should be spent. Just like the Howry and Eyre signings two offseasons ago by the Cubs, the peanut counters screamed bloody murder. What’s so wrong with wanting the best and paying top dollar to get it?? Worst case scenario, we’re saddled with a Milton type contract. So what……But the upside is delicious.

  42. I’ll throw in my two cents saying that I like the deal. Sure, Cordero might not be in his prime anymore, but I’ll take the Reds signing legitimate talent (from a division rival no less) over their usual scrapheap attempts. For every Hamilton and Phillips, there’s seven Stantons and Cormiers.

    Signing a legit player (even if it was above “market price”) shows the Reds are serious about improving…the last time I thought that was when they traded for Griffey…

  43. Note to everyone….let’s talk about age of free agents.

    When is that last time you heard of an outstanding free-agent that was signed for a 4 year deal who wasn’t over 30??? It doesn’t happen because any smart team will sign good players under their control to extensions. Therefore anyone who bitches about us given a 4 year deal to 32 year old is a moron, and lacks understanding of baseball contacts. Phillips, Hamilton, and Burton are awesome…..but you can’t expect Krivsky to have every cheap deal turn out to be a homerun.

  44. This is a good sign that the Reds are willing to throw away money.

    I bet they get a good 30 million in value for their 46 million. With the Reds bullpen in disarray like it has been, I’ll take that deal.

  45. The Reds not only have the best closer in the division, but the best in the NL!!!!!!!

  46. Today, the Reds gave me hope of winning for the first time in, I don’t know when. I feel fat and sassy.

  47. Scary bit of trivia gleaned from on of the Brewers’ blogs:

    Cordero 2007 at Miller Park: 41.3 IP, 1.09 ERA, 21 H, 15 BB, 56 K

    Cordero 2007 on the road: 22 IP, 6.55 ERA, 31 H, 3 BB, 30 K.

    No clue how to explain that, but it was the first time since 2003 that he was better at home, so hopefully it’s just a sample size quirk.

  48. Cordero won’t give us 4 good years. We need to compete in 08, 09, and 10 though (that is how I believe the team is built). I think Cordero gives us at least 2 really good years.

  49. Great move. The contract length sucks but that’s the cost of doing business. While their may be 20 relievers who out perform him over the course of the contract(I doubt that actually) if he’s not top notch in in 2010, his contract probably won’t be so difficult to move then.

  50. This doesn’t change things much, but he wasn’t the best closer in the NL last year. That honor went to Takashi Saito of LA who posted an ERA+ of 327 with a 0.715 WHIP and only a few less saves than Cordero. Jose Valverde of Arizona saved more games and had an ERA+ of 177 compared to Cordero’s 150. Cordero was closer to third as his stats actually grade out comparably to Billy Wagner.

  51. Thanks for the perspective Godly. I thought we were getting a decent closer, not the third best.
    Similar to Billy Wagner! Ugh! How could Krivdog do that?!?

  52. just who would you complainers like to see as the reds closer next year? weathers? gagne? benitez? alfonseca? percival? wickman? foulke? dotel? the only legitamite complaint you have is the contract. but its either overpay or run out yet another retread.

  53. I don’t know if this has been discussed here yet, but any ideas on who they’ll drop off the 40-man?

  54. Before negotiations concluded, Melvin said he asked Cordero’s agent, Bean Stringfellow, if his $42 million offer was “within $1 million or $2 million” of the highest bid. He said Stringfellow indicated that the top offer was higher than that, so Melvin pulled out.

    For those who think the Reds erred by paying a million more per year than Milwaukee, this shows it was likely necessary.

  55. This guy is as shaky as Danny Graves was in his last couple of years with the Reds. Does ANYONE remember how bad he looked closing out games last year against the Reds? This contract is going to come back to haunt the Reds for several years, much as the Griffey and Milton contracts did. That said, I do applaud the Reds for trying to upgrade a terrible BP. The money they (the Reds) paid Cordero, is a sad statement of just how far down the crapper Major League baseball has gone. I think the money could have been spent wiser. But it is not my money! I really hope I am wrong and he turns out to be the stud closer so many of you believe he is. (Check out the home and away stats from last season). I’m betting the Reds will regret this signing by next September! Go Reds!

  56. A question, does this contract eliminate the possibility of a Dunn extension?

  57. This move has the look of Castellini. I heard Marty say on the radio several times during the last month of the season that Bob C. told him “we are going to turn this thing around.” Combine that w/ the 3 mil. signing of a manager and it doesn’t surprise me to see the Reds throwing big money around to fix the bullpen. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is another big trade yet for a starter. I’m sure Castellini made promises to Baker to improve the pitching in order for Baker to come to Cinci. Let’s hope Krivsky makes a few smart moves.

  58. Cordero’s road ERA
    July 28th @STL 3ER, July 26th @CIN 2ER, June 29th @CHI 3 ER, June 14th @DET 2ER, and June 9th @TEX 4ER. All 4 of the losses/blown saves were on the road. Other than these few outings he was awesome. Basically he had a bad June. I do not see how any LIFELONG REDS FAN can be negative about this signing, and if you are one of those guys its time to see the doctor and get some ZOLOFT. Seriously, this critisism is ridiculous.

  59. I wouldn’t worry about the road ERA thing either. That’s 22 innings for Pete’s sake. 🙂

    Careerwise, here are his splits:
    Home: 262 IP, 3.19 ERA, 0.652 OPS against, 0.302 BABIP
    Away: 243 IP, 3.40 ERA, 0.702 OPS against, 0.316 BABIP

    Maybe a slight tendency to perform better at home–which is impressive given that he pitched in Arlington for all those years–but not enough to massively change his effectiveness.

    He’s been an outstanding pitcher for a long time now. … my biggest concern is whether he’ll continue to be that effective, but I’m choosing to be cautiously excited about this move. 🙂

  60. Don’t worry about Cordero being ineffecticve. He had a great year last year and that will be the same in 2008. In one year, you will not get horrible all of a sudden

  61. I think I’m with what a lot of people have said on here that I like the move, but I don’t like the contract.

    They being said, who else were they going to get. There’s no starter out there worth spending that money on, so I guess they might as well get an ace in the bullpen, which was horribly bad last year.

    Now, Wayne needs to get a #3 or #4 starter and he has done a good job this offseason.

  62. Yeah, do we even know who the FIVE starters will be next year?
    1. Aaron Harang
    2. Bronson Arroyo
    3. Homer Bailey?

  63. Will David Weathers be a set up guy along with JArod Burton or is he gone?

  64. Where will EZ be at? He was pretty good a couple of years ago. He went to waste.

  65. Zoloft? I think ANYONE who cannot see the potential downside to this signing
    needs MUCH more than Zoloft to deal with reality. This signing has the potential of being a real jewel or to make Mr. Krivsky look like a fool. I hope it works out, I really do. But to not at least question the teams spending so much money on ONE pitcher when there are so many needs to be filled, would really make someone need Zoloft. EVERYONE has the right to their own opinions without some know it all questioning their opinion. Is that not what blogging is all about? I still think the Reds will regret this signing next September! I hope I am wrong, because I love the Reds and I go to at least 60 games every year,so I feel like I have a right to my opinion. There are MANY others who feel the way I do. At the end of this 4 year contract, we will ALL see who is right. Have a GREAT day EVERYONE. Go Reds!

  66. So what will Codero turn out? Eric Milton’s big contract or a successful sign?

  67. Who is Zoloft?

  68. I agree with Chris, from the very first comment: “Cordero should be good, just not worth the money.”

    If Cordero, Weathers, Burton and Bray pitch up to their potential, and if any one of Macbeth, Majewski or Coutlangus steps up, the Reds would have one of the finest bullpens in the NL. Those variables might not pan out, but they’re not implausible, either.

    With the money they just spent, though, I’ve got to think this sets up another move for a #2 or #3 SP. I’ve heard rumors connecting the Reds to A.J. Burnett and Joe Blanton, and I even saw speculation that the Reds could jump into the Santana sweepstakes. That’s pretty unlikely, even if Bruce were included, because of the money needed to keep him — but still. It’s nice to be mentioned.

    I wonder if Hamilton, Maloney or Cueto, and Daryl Thompson or Travis Wood would be enough to fetch Blanton? How about Alex Gonzalez and Maloney or Cueto for Burnett?

    i love this cause we need bullpen now!
    not later so get a veteran who can get it done.

  70. I think the Santana sweepstakes is obviously out of the question for us, since he wants to go to a team with a lot more calliber than the twins, and frankly we’re not there yet. But, I was thinking about Dontrelle Willis. I haven’t heard anyone mention this as a possibility, why not? He’s still on the trade block, or at least has one foot on it, right? I’d be happy to see us sacrifice a position player (Gonzalez, a first basemen, etc.) for him.

  71. It’s not the greatest signing ever, but it beats paying 5 mil a year for a set up man.

  72. He may be the excpetion rather than the “rule” on the age thing- his arm wasn’t abused at a young age- he threw only 268 innings in his 20-24 age years. He also hasn’t been on the DL in over 5 years.

  73. Both good points, LVW. Age-based generalizations are usually right, but they are, at essence, still generalizations.

    What I’m interested in, and what I hope to post on soon (or even better, maybe JinAZ or someone else could do it and have it be accurate), is how Dusty Baker is likely to use this valuable asset — has he been the type of manager who uses his bullpen stopper in the highest-leverage situations, or is he the type to just robotically use his “closer” in all save situations, and never any other time?

  74. Reds get a closer. the 7-8-9 now looks like Burton-Weathers and Cordero. Also important it takes away from Divisional rival. Th wage and years are high but with few marquee names out there I will certain take getting the best closer there. Rivera signed for 45 mil over 3 years. It is dandy by me that we have a solid back end of the bull pen now. now lets get a mid tier rotation man. Wayne did something positive!!

  75. By the way, there’s no point in complaining about the contract because it’s not our money. Let Castellini spend his money however he wants albeit it be on good players.

  76. Hey, I woke up this morning and wondered what else the Reds have done to improve themselves. I have an expectancy right now. That’s a welcome change…..

  77. The “it’s not our money” argument does not make sense. While it is truly not our money, the Reds are not an unlimited payroll team. I think the Cordero contract is a make or break contract for Krivsky’s future, so, in a vacuum, I like it. My concern would be if in a year, the team turns around and says that there isn’t enough money to pay Adam Dunn. That’s why anyone here can question the dollars involved in a contract.

  78. It’s not supposed to make sense, it’s not a theory. The extra $1 million we offered more than Milwaukee isn’t going to bankrupt the franchise, or impede any future deal whether it be an extension for Dunn or a FA signing for a #3 type SP. So just sit back and be happy that the Reds have, for the first time in 10+ years, an actual front of the line closer who strikes some fear into the opposing lineup.

  79. Re: ellis: You mean ‘ol Stormy didn’t elicit fear in the opposition?! (end sarcasm…)

    I agree, it’s a good sign that the Reds are trying to acquire legitimate players. Now, about that Santana guy… (yeah right).

  80. One million might not affect the signing of other players, but 46 million might.

    The Reds needed a closer and got one, that’s good and I’m actually a fan of this deal for reasons I’ve mentioned before, I just worry that the money spent here will be used as an excuse for not giving Dunn an extension.

  81. With respect to the contract, does anyone think the Reds won’t be able to deal Cordero in the 3rd or 4th years of the contract, if necessary? He is an “established closer” after all. Someone will be willing to take on the contract, if the Reds need to get away from it.

    Meanwhile, the bullpen is immediately improved for the next couple of years, at least. I’m very happy with that. The Reds are a better team now than they were one week ago.

    That is a good thing.

  82. No the Reds need some starting pitchers that will last for a couple more years.

  83. The Reds are better now than they were last week… that’s true.

    But you’re assuming a LOT if you assume that Cordero’s contract will be tradeable in 2 years.

    That contract is big enough that if he’s injured or ineffective, absolutely no one will want it. And when you’re projecting 2 years out on a reliever who will be 34 by then, you have no idea what you’ll have.

    How many free agent signings for 4 years or more wind up being good deals for the team for the whole duration of the contract? I don’t know the answer… I’m genuinely curious.

  84. Im on the side of: Good signing, bad contract. I like the move, it gets us a guy at the backend of the rotation that (as of now) I can trust to close the game. It appears that in today’s game, you build from the end and work your way to the start.

    In the end, I like the move because it has me thinking about the Reds in December! I can’t wait till opening day. How many days?

  85. Cordero is very solid, but ask the Blue Jays if that BJ Ryan contract has worked out and how tradeable that is. I think $12MM/yr is better spent on other aspects of the team regardless of how bad the bullpen has been the last two years. And come on people, Burton had a solid 43 IP, but had a .232 BABIP and you can expect that to go up by 60 points and his K/BB was certainly not dominant.

    I also love how some people here think that any team wants Alex Gonzalez. And for Burnett or Dontrelle? Please.

  86. I swear some of you are the most negative people. Huge hole at closer caused our pen to be in flux the last two years. They go out and get the second best closer on the market and people bitch about it. I forgot that you guys were professionals. Maybe when there is a GM opening the Reds will start searching the blogs for the next best thing. Chris cross your fingers – it could be you.

  87. I’m sorry but I haven’t read any of the comments other than the post and I just want to speak my peace (sorry if someone has already said this) But I like this move: Yes the reds paid a ton of money for him, but he is an all-star and is very good, but also not only are me making our team significantly better but we are also taking him away from the Brewers & or Astros (division rivals) who were going after him. Anytime we can make our team better and our rivals worse, I’m for it regardless of the cost, the reds made a good move here…

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2008 Reds, Reds - General