Game Thread: Reds at Marlins — 2007.07.21 Chad Dotson 07/21/2007 115 Bobby Livingston is back on the mound tonight against the Florida Marlins. Discuss it here. Share this:TweetPrint 115 Responses Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Will tonight’s starter for the Marlins remain sober after the game? 😀 Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I think they need to flip-flop Lopez and Livingston in the batting order. 😀 Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I see another thing I missed by not seeing last night’s game. Ryan Freel drew a BB! DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 I’m feeling a big game for the run-scoring part of the Reds tonight. Stars are aligned. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Well, the Cubbies and Brewsters lost so we can make up that game we lost last night. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 FSOH tuned in two pitches late into the game! 😈 DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Nice leadof at-bat for Freel, displaying some better bat control and fouling a lot of pitches. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Kim is a very short 5″9″ Is this the same fill-in for George Grande? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 No TV. Out of curiosity, what do most do when following the gamethread while watching the TV broadcast: bring a laptop into the livingroom/den? Or a TV in the office? Or a TV card on the desktop computer? Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 At least we made him throw 17 pitches. He’ll be at about 40+ pitches when Livingston takes him deep. 😀 Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Whoa! That ball got to Dunn on two hops! Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I use the trusty iBook in the living room. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Uggla is one strong looking dude. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 You’re passing me on the comments leaderboard tonight, Jim. I just can’t keep up with your pace. Go go go! Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think you pitch Cabrera away. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 That Miguel Cabrera is good. I wonder if the Marlins will trade him this year or next, to avoid paying him the tens of millions more he will earn in arbitration. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Good sign when your soft-throwing pitcher breaks a bat or two. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 You’ll pass me back up this week because I am chaperoning at a high school band camp at Kenyon College. It’s our first time at Kenyon and I’m told there is not Internet access or TV in the rooms. I’m going to try to find some way to get around that. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Well, at least I don’t think Cabrera will go to the Yankees unless they are going to move him to another position. Who out of the big buyers are most likely to snag him? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Wow. A college that doesn’t have internet access in their dorms? I can’t even imagine. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Kim pitching like a major Reds-Killer so far. He career numbers against the Reds back that up as well. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 For a guy with control problems, he is dead on tonight! When he misses it isn’t by much. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 This is Kim’s first start against the Reds, though. Previous experience against Cincinnati has been all relief outings. He does look awfully good through 2 innings. Chad 07/21/2007 Laptop in the living room, DA (in response to comment number 9). Chad 07/21/2007 I’m following on GameDay tonight. How many stadiums have that fancy pitch-tracking technology on GameDay? Oakland is the only one I’ve seen, but I know a couple of other west coast teams have it. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Phillips lists Larkin as his hero? I loved Larkin as a kid, but does this mean that we’re going to hear Phillips complain about money every year after he turns 30? GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Oh, and I have a laptop in between my recliner and my couch. So, score two for laptops. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Are Marty and Jeff paying attention? They are touting Mackanin as a guy that gets more playing time for his bench, spot starts and such. Didn’t Narron start Castro and Moeller and Hopper even more often than Mackanin does? I’m certainly not going to count Lopez in Mackanin’s favor because of the Alex Gonzalez situation. Chad 07/21/2007 And is it really a credit to Mackanin? I don’t want my bench playing more, I want them playing less. I suppose, in a clubhouse chemistry sense, it could be to a manager’s benefit. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 First, has Marty really paid attention to a game since 1990? Second, you’re asking for logical discussion from Jeff Brantley. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I guess adding Valentin to the equation means Mackanin plays the bench more. It’s three for laptops. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 San Diego, Oakland, Los Angeles, and San Francisco have the Advanced Gameday equipment for pitch tracking. Wrigley Field also has it. Toronto, Minnesota, and Detroit have it. Milwaukee & Atlanta have it. Those are the ones I know for certain. I also know that Yankee Stadium, Fenway, and RFK in DC do not have it. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Never having seen the advanced gameday pitch tracking, what exactly does it give you? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Advanced Gameday gives pitch speed, side-to-side break, and vertical break. It also tracks the pitch speed at the release point and the lower speed it crosses the plate at. And it also locates in space the pitcher’s release point. Visually, it combines all that info and traces the arc of the pitch. Chad 07/21/2007 Boy, that Pedro Lopez is a great hitter. Can’t imagine why the White Sox tossed him on the trash heap. I can’t believe the Reds are actually giving ABs to a player that couldn’t hold Juan Castro’s jock. We’re going to look back on him and remember him like Mike Frank or Cesar Hernandez. Chad 07/21/2007 Gameday Audio not working for anyone else? GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 I like watching Livingston pitch. He works quickly and doesn’t seem afraid to challenge the hitters. And Chad, we’re not going to look back on Pedro Lopez and remember someone else, because no one will remember that Lopez even existed come opening day ’08. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Audio working OK for me, Chad. Last night for me it was poor quality, but fine tonight. Reminder: if the MLB audio isn’t working, try thegamelive (dotcom). Haven’t used it this year, but usually at least one of the radio station links it has works. The station in Dayton was the one to work last year, IIRC. Chad 07/21/2007 That’s kinda what I was saying. Lopez is like one of those guys that show up during these crappy seasons, never to be heard from again. Chad 07/21/2007 It isn’t working for me, at all. I’m following on GameDay, but that’s all I’ve got. Chad 07/21/2007 Walk for Junior, and Kim’s perfect game is broken up. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 A baserunner! Griffey works the walk. My gut feeling about a banner night for the offense certainly isn’t panning out. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Let’s play “Name Forgotten Reds of Bad Seasons Past” game. I will start with Osvaldo Fernandez. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 There ought to be a feature for some of those long-forgotten guys on bad teams. “Remembering .” Bill Selby? Robin Jennings, who is tied for second-place in franchise history with 7 RBI in one game? Lance Davis? Minor-league wonder Stephen Smitherman? The tragically murdered Dernell Stenson? Lots of material even from this decade. Chad 07/21/2007 Well, I’ve tried everything I know. I can’t get Gameday Audio to work. Chad 07/21/2007 Rolando Roomes. Chad 07/21/2007 Double for Dunn. Awesome. His last hit as a Red? GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Chris “The Next Pete Rose” Stynes. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 You think? No way Dunn gets traded, in my mind. The offers bandied about aren’t nearly good enough. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 The Reds cannot trade Dunn. If they trade him, who will people like Marty and the moron fans who boo Dunn have to blame the Reds problems on? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Reggie Jefferson, once part of the stream of “next Eric Davis’ ” whom Bowden had to trade away after making a really stupid roster mistake. Chad 07/21/2007 Oh, I think they’ll trade Dunn. No one in this town or this organization realize how good Dunn is. When he’s traded, the mouth-breathers on WLW will praise Krivsky for six months. Chad 07/21/2007 Jon Nunnally. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 1-0 on a clutch hit for Edwin. And good thing, because Lopez and Livingston choke. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Guys with a career .894 OPS grow on trees. Sure, trees that apparently only have 19 active players with higher OPS’s and only 63 players in history with a higher career OPS. I bet Coco Crisp is one of the 19. Chad 07/21/2007 Going back a little further, how about Dave Van Gorder? Or Dann Billardello? Or Alan Knicely. Lots of great catchers on those crappy teams of the early 80s. Chad 07/21/2007 Freel strikes out with runners in scoring position. He’s really been pretty bad this year. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 How about Freddie Benavides? Or Mo Sanford, the next Tom Seaver? Chad 07/21/2007 I think you’re preaching to the choir here, GodlyCynic. But does anyone in Cincinnati understand your point? GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 I cannot help but hate Ryan Freel. I’m not sure it’s entirely his fault. I applaud that he plays very hard, but he’s just not a good baseball player and never has been. I think the fact that he’s the favorite player of everyone who hates Dunn has forced me to hate Freel in retaliation. That extension he was signed to was just bad for business and when the rumor came up before the season started that the Rangers were interested in trading for him, I was praying that it would happen. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 No, but everyone in Cincinnati thinks that Marty is a great announcer when he’s been awful for nearly two decades now. And, of course, Marty hates Dunn and Marty cannot be wrong. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Marty is a great announcer. But a poor pundit. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 That was a short-lived lead. I might have walked Hanley to go against Uggla, but tough to do when he’s hit pretty well vs. the Reds. Looking for a doubleplay anyway. Chad 07/21/2007 Yeah, I love Marty. Great at describing the game. He frequently has no clue whatsoever what he’s talking about, though. Which makes him difficult to listen to. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 As a kid, I could never understand how Marty and Joe could spend an entire inning talking about a mutual friend one of them ran into at a grocery store for an entire inning instead of just calling the game. Marty also shows a Joe Morgan level of understanding of the game of baseball. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 I’d be okay with Marty’s lack of understanding, what makes him impossible to listen to is that he believes that he knows more about the game and the players than anyone and is hostile towards anyone who disagrees with him. It does not make for a pleasant listening experience. Chad 07/21/2007 At least Joe Morgan has the redeeming quality that he could actually play the game very well once upon a time. And since he rarely broadcasts Reds games, I can usually ignore his announcing. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 I don’t doubt Joe Morgan the player. I doubt Joe Morgan the arrogant, hostile, and completely ignorant analyst. Chad 07/21/2007 You’re correct about that, GC. He has a lack of knowledge, but he’s arrogant about his belief that he is the smartest guy in the room. Chad 07/21/2007 Agree 100 percent, GC (about Morgan). DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 So, Livingston gives it up against the bottom of the order, but once again bears down and dominates the mid-lineup sluggers to avoid heavy damage. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Speedster Hatteberg with an infield hit! A rarity for him. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 I can only assume that Griffey thought that Cabrera kicked the ball to the wall and did not realize that it was at his feet. Either he or Hatcher completely misread that. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Oops. Griffey doesn’t make many mistakes on the basepaths, but that was one. Hatteberg gets to third with one out, though. Can Phillips hit a sac. fly? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Guess not. Can ValentÃƒÂn come through and reward his skipper for the increase in playing time? Chad 07/21/2007 No. Chad 07/21/2007 I might be able to turn on the game via Extra Innings now. Just finished watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with my kids. Johnny Depp is strange. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/OPS_active.shtml Just thought it was interesting to note that Dunn is well ahead of guys like Derrek Lee and Carlos Beltran and the only people ahead of him are players who have all generally been considered amongst the best players in the league during their primes. Chad 07/21/2007 Bobby Livingston is making a strong case to be the 5th starter in 2008. Chad 07/21/2007 Is there a more unappreciated star in baseball than Adam Dunn? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Well, right now Livingston’s making a strong case that he should be the #3 starter for the remainder of 2007. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Aaron Harang isn’t too far behind. Also, you’d think that Pat Burrell is the worst player in history whenever anyone talks about him, but he’s actually quite good. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Livingston sitting on 85 pitches through 6 innings. He’s due up 3rd this inning. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Maybe Livingston can play some SS so that he can get some more ABs. Chad 07/21/2007 Kim just hit 100 pitches. Chad 07/21/2007 Livingston has a better OPS than Lopez. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d think that Pat Burrell is the worst player in history whenever anyone talks about him, but heÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s actually quite good. Ha – every player in Philadelphia is booed like they’re the worst player in history. Rolen got booed there. Mike Schmidt got booed there. I dunno about Pete, though. Maybe they liked him. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Does throwing side-armed or underhanded have any noticeable affects on a pitcher’s stamina? DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 It’s even better than that: Livingston’s batting average is higher than Lopez’ OPS. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 Pat Burrell suffers from the Adam Dunn syndrome (despite not being as good as Dunn) where the hometown’s disdain of him seems to have rubbed off on every writer or announcer in the business. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Supposedly sidearm and submarine deliveries are easier on the arm. But I’ve only seen that mentioned in reference to endurance in seasons and careers, not in individual games. I think probably the energy effort is the same, it’s just less stress on the elbow and shoulder. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Boom. Boom. 3-1 Marlins. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Come on, Reds! Just four outs left. Chad 07/21/2007 Dunn needs to tie it up with one swing here. Chad 07/21/2007 Dunn is ahead of Eric Davis on the Reds HR list. You’d never know it, if you listen to talk radio. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 It just takes one swing, Adam! Chad 07/21/2007 Dunn is 3rd on the Reds career OPS list. Behind Frank Robinson and Ken Griffey, Jr. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Gameday is stuck after a bit of bad data, but Dunn struck out swinging. Chad 07/21/2007 Only 10th on the Reds career BB list, though. That surprises me. GodlyCynic 07/21/2007 But Freel is first on the Reds career Effort to Ability Ratio with an EAR rating of 34 just ahead of Bip Roberts and Todd Benzinger. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 “I don’t know what it is caffeine does for you, but without it? Your head caves in.” Coffey on to try and somehow salvage this disaster-in-the-making eighth inning. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I think the disaster is now in full bloom. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 7 batters thus far in this eighth inning, all 7 have reached. Ugh. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Eight run inning, and still no outs. Good lord. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 Now 9 batters into the inning: 7 hits, a hit batter, and a walk. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 There should be a law against something like this! Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I think Mackanin finally sees his bullpen has an infinite ability to suck. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 If this is Bizarro Night then Stone will strike out the side. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 And Ricky Stone, he of the 12.46 ERA, comes on to fan the flames. A pinch-hitter for Cabrera? Brantley calls it “the mercy rule.” Bad Bullpen! Bad! 👿 👿 👿 Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Freel sure likes to dive for balls. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Interesting stat flashed by FSOH. 8th inning run differential ratio of virtually 2 to 1 this year. (actually numbers 84 (so far) to 43) Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 I guess it is safe to say the Reds won’t be making up that game on Chicago and Milwaukee tonight. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 The suspense is over. No comeback tonight. Y-City Jim 07/21/2007 Kim can now go out tonight, drink a few, and get picked up by the Miami-Dade law enforcement. DevilsAdvocate 07/21/2007 And, the Reds will be back in last place if the Pirates can hold on to win over Houston.