2007 Reds / Game Thread / Reds - General

Game Thread: Reds at Phillies — 2007.06.27

Game two of the series at Citizens Bank Park, and all we can do is hope that tonight is better than last night’s debacle.

There’s a pretty good chance it will be, since Aaron Harang is on the mound, and he’s been awfully good lately. Pitching for Philly is Jamie Moyer. He’s been around a while.


46 thoughts on “Game Thread: Reds at Phillies — 2007.06.27

  1. Useless factoid: Until the Rangers – Tigers game was washed out, today was going to set record with 7 games started by pitchers 40 or older. Detroit was going to start Rogers. Besides Moyer, Clemens, Glavine, Maddux Smoltz and Woody Williams are scheduled. Williams has already hit the showers in the Brewers-Astros tilt.

    Christ, I’m old enough to be the father of most of those guys.

  2. Reds 2007 #2 draft pick, Zack Cozart (SS) has been added to the Dragons roster. I have to believe that means Valaika will be moving to Sarasota soon and that Milton Loo is not coming to Sarasota anytime soon. (I was told while I was there last week that he wasn’t there.)

  3. Meanwhile, the Reds are getting no-hit through four innings by soft-tossing lefty, the ancient Jamie Moyer. One baserunner was on an Encarnación walk.

  4. Make that no hits through 5. At least Harang is shutting out the Phillies thus far, though he’s labored a little a couple times.

  5. Bill,
    maybe you missed it, but Milton Loo is retired. He and the Reds reached an agreement and he is not planning on coming back.
    Cozart has been in Dayton for a few days actually…. but had not been on the roster. Probably had to wait for the contract to get approved by MLB.

    Ryan Howard just hit a baseball that landed ontop of my house.

  6. I have no stats to back this up, but is it just me, or do the Reds seem to struggle against “smart”, crafty veterans more so than other teams?

  7. Seems that way to me too, Chicago, but I also think they just struggle against lefties, and lefties are a higher percentage of “crafty” pitchers than the righthanders.

  8. Reds are scoring runs! Bases-loaded no out, and Gonzalez doubles off the top of the wall for two runs. After Ryan Howard’s 3-run homer earlier, that makes the score 3-2 Phillies just at the moment, but Cincinnati will score some more runs here with two more in scoring position and no out.

  9. Tie game thanks to a pinch-hit single by Valentín. Ross was pinch-hit for, by the way. And Harang will bat for himself after him.

    Jeff Brantley – please tell us what is going on! Instead of just drawling on about nothing, tell us if Harang is being pinch-hit for or not! I beg you!

  10. I don’t dislike Brantley like most everyone else does, but he’s not great.

    Hit by BP scores another. Reds lead.

  11. And the hits just keep on coming. 2-RBI single (to left!) by Griffey, 6-3, 6-run inning, the Reds have batted around, and still only one out.

  12. Give us time, Derek! If Harang can’t pitch a complete game, it’ll be nailbiting time for our bullpen, as well.

  13. The hell? Valentín just whiffed on an ordinary pitch, and it bounces off the ump and a run scores. 6-5 Reds now, and a runner at third with one out.

  14. Clarification: Valentín is the catcher, and he completely failed to catch that pitch.

  15. RagTag, I can’t believe you predicted the future like that! Amazing! How do you do it?

    And does anyone know what the record is for passed balls in one inning?

  16. I saw someone complaining about Brantley – I think he’ll improve.

    But not due to his partner. I was listening to the game for 20 min. the other day, waiting for the HOFer to give the freakin’ score. He needs an egg timer.

  17. …waiting for the HOFer…

    Can I nitpick during a rain delay? 😀

    Not going after you directly, Chris, but I see this shorthand a lot in reference to broadcasters and writers. Marty is not a Hall of Famer per se. Broadcasters are honored with the Ford Frick Award but are not actual inductees of the Hall. From the HoF website:

    The Ford C. Frick Award is presented annually at the Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony. Each award recipient (not to be confused with an inductee) is presented with a calligraphy of the award during the Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony and is recognized in the “Scribes & Mikemen” exhibit in the Library of the National Baseball Hall of Fame..

    Technically only those chosen by the BBWAA and the Veterans Committee are Hall of Famers because they are the only honorees who are actually inducted into the Hall. That isn’t to take anything away from the Frick Award (or the JG Taylor Spink Award). It’s a great honor, despite Marty’s more recent performance.

    OK, back to your regularly scheduled b***cfest over the LLM’s catching.

  18. If Weathers is going to be asked to go back out there for the ninth, I’m going to need an insurance run or three to feel better about that.

  19. And then Weathers goes out and sets ’em down in order. Whatever. Very nice, 9-6 Reds final. A win!

  20. Announcers both ragging on Dunn, indicating it has been a long time since one of his home runs was meaningful. Figured most runs are probably valuable, so I scrolled back through time a bit.

    Prior home run 6/20, solo home run in the fourth broke a scoreless tie. First run of the game, sounds good to me.

    Prior to that, 6/17, trailing 4-1 in bottom of fourth, hits a two-run home run to close the gap. That sounds pretty damn important to me.

    Didn’t bother to look any farther, previous two home runs each seem much more important than one that extends a lead in the top of the ninth.

    I guess seeing all the games doesn’t necessarily give you perspective. Maybe announcer’s bias should be held in check a little.

  21. I totally agree with you Jeff, but I think the announcers probably were thinking of “late and close” situations. Using the word “meaningful” is pretty poor, because obviously those two situations you listed were certainly meaningful.

    For reference, fangraphs has another take. It looks like the 9th inning Dunn homerun tonight was worth about 0.22 (guessing) on the WPA graph: the Reds’ probability of winning went from about 54% to 76%. The Reds ended up winning the game.

    His homer on 6/20, the 4th inning solo shot to make it 1-0, was worth 0.121 on the WPA scale. The Reds ended up losing that game.

    The homer on 6/17, the 2-run job that reduced the Rangers’ lead to 4-3, was worth 0.160. The Reds ended up losing that game.

    When the end result for the team is positive, the achievements within that game take on an added luster. Hence, when the Reds win, the homer was important. When they lose, the homer was meaningless. That’s logic for ya. 🙄

  22. #28,

    Marty was inducted into the National Sportswriters and Sportscasters Hall of Fame in 2005.

    I don’t believe the media are eligible for the MLB HOF; it is reserved for Players, Managers, Umpires, and Executives.

    I guess what I’m getting at is the fact that Marty is indeed a Hall of Famer. We can’t dock him for not being in the MLB HOF if it is not even possible for him to be inducted.

  23. Always remember, the Reds employ precisely zero announcers who bother to do any research or statistical analysis before running their mouths. They’re all just following Marty’s ignorant lead.

  24. I don’t completely agree. I think Chris Welsh brings in stats and analysis regularly. I don’t understand his love for Juan Castro, and think he agrees with George Grande much, much, much too often, but think he does his homework.

  25. Bill, I think the world of Juan Castro, as a situational player. That is a late inning defensive replacement or a pinch runner. It’s not his fault that Narron continues to use him like he’s A-Rod. I, like Welsh, think there’s alot of teams that would love to have him.
    Now for the dreaded “However”. The Reds don’t have the luxury of carrying a player like Castro on the roster. 1. With the bullpen from hell, there are less and less situations where he’s needed as a late inning defensive replacement. The game’s lost by then. 2. As a veteran player, he makes too much money to just sit around and occasionally be used to hit for Hamilton. (Have never figured that out). The money could be better spent on reliable relief pitching.
    I don’t see how he’s on the roster next year. With Milton also gone, the Reds could spend a buck and sign some free agent reliefers (preferably under the age of 50) that could turn this team around.

  26. Tyler,

    I know of Marty’s other honors and thought about that after I posted. But I don’t think it was to those were that Chris was referring.

    I’m not docking him for not being a Cooperstown inductee. I thought that was clear. He’s been rightly honored by the Hall in the way available to them.

    But when Marty (and other recipients of the Frick and Spink awards) is referred to as a HoFer by baseball people, be they fans, FO types, columnists or other broadcasters, it’s in reference to that building in Cooperstown. It’s not accurate and it’s a little peeve of mine – like folks who use plural nouns like “data” and “media” with singular verbs. (Although I’ve no doubt one can find recent dictionaries and usage manuals that support this form of the continued dumbing down of the language, just like the reprehensible practice of “verbing” nouns.)

    Don’t worry. I’m just a old curmudgeon. It only gets to me when I’ve got too much time on my hands – like during rain delays. 😉

  27. Castro’s not only bad, he’s one of the worst offensive players in recent history…yet all of the Reds announcers (including Welsh) keep saying he should get more ABs…that’s my point.

  28. I don’t see how he’s on the roster next year.

    Castro has a guaranteed contract next year with an option for ’09. True, it’s only for $925K. It’s possible the FO will treat it as sunk cost and DFA Castro, but I wouldn’t expect Kriv to do it. Remember, it was Krivsky that made extending Castro (who was already under contract for ’07) one of his first priorities last off season. It’s that radiant ex-Twinness of Juan’s that gets ’em.

  29. Kriv was still with the Twins when the Twins signed Castro, right? Since Kriv traded for him after coming here and signed him to the extension, I’m assuming that Castro is Kriv’s guy to the end.

  30. I’m assuming that Castro is Kriv’s guy to the end.

    Greg, I’d say that’s a pretty fair assumption.

  31. I agree Bill, Castro is NOT a player that you worry about getting more at bats. He’s in the league for his glove and nothing else. Now, if only Narron would realize that.

  32. I was very excited at this Game Weather was very nice to start. Game flew by quickly a great duel between Moyer and Harang. Harang made one mistake the entire game the 505 blast by Howard. It was a moon shot. Howard impressed me with his glove made some great plays at and around 1st. Narron made a mistake by trotting Harang back out after 42 min top of the 7th. He looked cold and started off poorly. Then the bullpen and the awful defense of Javy Valntie showed through. The Rain came in buckets in the B of the 8 and they stopped the game. Good thing too took the wind out of the Phils sail. Dunn hit a HR to left. I was stunned as I was drenched. Reds won a a great bullpen performance by David Weathers. The only one we can trust in that pen. Moyer the old man impressed me he deserved better but in the battle of the Awful Pens the Reds won. I figured that the umps would ghhave called the game after 7 but the played on in the monster rain storm. I wanted so very badly for Harang to get the due he desrved in his 9th win but it wasnt to be.

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