06/26/2007

DOTF

Louisville 12, Pawtuckett 7

27 year-old Jeff Bannon went 4 for 4 with a BB, 2B, and 6 RBI.  He is hitting .313/.365/.395

Chattanooga 10, Huntsville 0

20 year-old Jay Bruce is proving that he is having lots of trouble adjusting to AA pitching.  Bruce, whose age says he should still be playing in Billings, struck out once in 6 plate appearances.  Wayne Krivsky said “see look how bad he looked on that swing, he clearly isn’t ready for the next level.”  In his other ABs he hit a double, 2 HRs, and 5 RBI.  One NL Scout was heard saying “his butt is way to low to be able to hit in the majors.”

Sarasota 12, Vero Beach 10

22 year-old Danny Dorn went 3 for 5 with a 2B and 4 RBI.  Dorn, who skipped a level, is hitting .262/.341/.441.

23 year-old Michael Griffin went 4 for 6 with 2 2B, 3 R, and 3 RBI.  Griffin is hitting .317/.346/.446

South Bend 7, Dayton 3

22 year-old, DOTF Favorite, Logan Parker went 1 for 4 with a 2B.  He is hitting .267/.357/.347.

Billings 1, Great Falls 0

22 year-old Robert Rhoden pitched 4 innings giving up just a BB while striking out 3.  In 7 innings at Billings he has given up a H, 2 BB, and 0 ER, while recording 8 Ks.  THIS is exactly the type of player that should be sent DIRECTLY to Dayton after being drafted.  He will be 23 in December, he played at a very competitive D1 School (Vanderbilt).  I know he wasn’t drafted until the 22nd round, but I would think you would want to determine what you have, let him play against people his age.

 

Blame Chad for creating this mess.

Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, “The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds” is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad’s musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine.

You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

Join the conversation! 29 Comments

  1. Clarification? Bruce “struck out in 6 plate appearances” but also had a double, two homers, and 5 RBI? I think a word is missing there? I read it and thought he struck out six times and your sarcasm was real.

  2. oops…fixed it.

  3. I love the daily updates but also get frustrated with your rash judgements without actually seeing a player in person or thorough knowledge of anything about the players but the stats you pull from the newspapers.

    For example, the reason college draftees are usually sent to Billings is because it’s a short seasoon program and they have already got a ton of games under their belts this year. Especially true for pitchers. The whole purpose of rookie ball is to get them acclimated to pro surroundings, get used to the wood bats and get them on a program toward a full season next year.

    Not their talent level or age. Rookie ball is really an initiation.

  4. Then why do other teams have their college players from big D1 schools skip rookie league? And I don’t read newspapers.

  5. With most teams it has EVERYTHING to do with age.

  6. No it doesn’t. It has to do with age and skill level and maturity and who’s ahead of them in the classifications above. Since no two organizations are the same, it’s not a blanket decision across the board based on age.

  7. First, I think Matt’s attacking a straw man a little bit re: Jay Bruce. I’ve NEVER heard a scout bash him; nor Krivsky, for that matter. I think Bruce has been promoted as fast as would be reasonable.

    Second, I’m not sure I understand the first part of ricknmd’s point re: Billings vs. Dayton.

    I understand that college pitchers have already thrown a lot of innings already this year, but how does going to a “short season” club address that in a way that Dayton doesn’t? If he goes to Dayton, he would play a “short season” there, too. Anyone drafted this spring is going to play, at most, 2 1/2 months of pro ball, regardless of what league it’s in, or whether the team was playing games before he showed up.

  8. Rick,

    Are you a scout?

    The Reds either suck at drafting, or suck at getting people at the right level.

    At the pace they are on every College kid that Krivsky drafted will be 25 by the time they get to Louisville. With that approach I wish they would just stop drafting college kids. Look at my report on the 1st round college picks from last year. EVERY single one of them is ATLEAST one level ahead of Drew Stubbs.

  9. Re: my Bruce comments
    Yes it is a strawman, it was a general poking fun at the way the Reds are managing the minors, and annoying comments by unnamed “NL Scouts”

  10. Matt, it’s not that simple.

    Your point might be true, if they play a year at every level, which they’ve shown is not the case.

    Bailey’s progress accelerated after spending a year at Dayton, as it appears Bruce’s is also. Roenicke skipped a level and is now at AA.

    The difference is that they aren’t progressing the players you think they should as fast as you think they should.

    Maybe they think Stubbs isn’t ready, but that he will be with more time at Dayton…maybe they know he’s not going to get much better but they have so much money invested in him they have to keep him and hope for the best and that having him struggle at Sarasota doesn’t help him or them. Maybe he’s not as good as those other #1 picks…that’s why he’s behind.

    And what happened to the player’s links?

  11. Having just finished reading Moneyball I can’t help but wonder if we shouldn’t compare what our organization does compared to others.

  12. Agreed Bill and Chris, but the differences in short season at Billings and second half at Dayton are:

    * Billings is starting from scratch with its roster. To move a player straight to Dayton out of the draft means having to create a roster spot by moving people around which creates a trickle affect up and down the system. Why do that, with the possibility of having to release some players you’re not ready to part with quite yet, for half a summer?

    * Not all D1 players are the same especially if they’ve had long college seasons. The southern schools start playing in February and if they went to the NCAA tournament they’ve had a long, long year already. Whether it’s a tired arm or beat up body or just needed to get adjusted to playing everyday.

    * As mentioned on Trent Rosecrans’ blog krivsky has been in charge for 16 months. Give the guy a break. His department hasn’t had enough time for you to judge his minor league system, drafting or the way they go about business. How previous GMs and ownerships handled the minors has absolutely nothing to do with the way they are managed today.

  13. i thought pretty much everyone agreed that this front office is very conservative with promoting prospects. seems pretty clear to me. you can have an opinion on that one way or another, but other teams definitely try to get their talent to the top faster.

    with the way the reds are set up, i’d like bruce to get a shot at playing in the bigs next year.

    votto, bruce, ede, phillips, and hamilton is a big core of young talent that should have a chance to play together so that by harang and arroyo’s last years we may be able to put it all together.

  14. Rick, your reasons at #12 make sense, and I’m fine with starting this particular guy at Billings. He WAS a 22nd round pick – it’s a bit much to be saying he should be rushed along. Also, Dayton is very competitive this year (and winning at all levels is something I know the Krivsky era org likes), and it might be easier to get Rhoden his innings in Billings.

    I’m actually with Rick on this issue (if I’m not misstating his thoughts). The Reds might be a little slow in promoting guys, but it’s not a horrible problem, at this point.

    What good does putting Jay Bruce in the majors next year serve, for example? If they’re going to compete, it’s probably not realistic to count on him to help. If they aren’t, why hurry to start the service clock. And if he does explode next year, he can bounce through three levels in one year, ala Adam Dunn.

    As for Drew Stubbs, specifically – I don’t think he needs to go anywhere. FWIW, I thought he was a terrible draft pick, so I’m not surprised that he’s behind every other college first rounder last year. There might be an organizational failure re Drew Stubbs, but I don’t think it relates to whether he’s in low- or high-A.

  15. Comments on #14:

    Dayton could use some help in the rotation right now. Watson moved up, as did Thompson earlier. They’ve got room for at least one guy in the rotation.
    I think Bruce stays at AA the rest of the year, starts next year at AAA…who knows, we could see him in Cincinnati next year.

    Stubbs hasn’t been impressive offensively. Looks good defensively, otherwise, doesn’t look special at all.

  16. We hammered on getting Medlock promoted and he finally was…I think next we should push Mike Griffin and Craig Tatum. I can’t figure out what they need to do to get promoted.

    Griffin could play 3B at Chattanooga and Hannigan should be in Louisville, making room for Tatum.

  17. Maybe the Reds minor leaguers could take the Josh Hamilton approach the majors! 🙂

  18. I think a lot of you guys on this board are promotion happy. Guy has a couple of good weeks and you scream “what’s he got to do to get a promotion?”

    I noticed that the Reds promoted people just as the first half of the minors season was ending. That’s what a lot of teams do. Gives the player a chance to have success and failure at that level and see how he performs.

    Like I said before, when a player gets promoted that means a player has to be moved somewhere. Minors have rosters too and a lot of times theirs a logjam somewhere. If a guy doesn’t get promoted over a few weeks what’s the big deal? His development is being retarded.

    All these guys the Reds promoted are still getting an entire second half at a higher level. What’s wrong with that?

  19. Let me repost. . .

    I think a lot of you guys on this board are promotion happy. Guy has a couple of good weeks and you scream “what’s he got to do to get a promotion?”

    I noticed that the Reds promoted players just as the first half of the minors season was ending. That’s what a lot of teams do. Gives the player a chance to have success and failure at that level and see how he reacts.

    Like I said before, when a player gets promoted that means a player has to be moved somewhere. Minors have rosters too and a lot of times there’s a logjam somewhere. If a guy doesn’t get promoted over a few weeks what’s the big deal? His development isn’t being retarded unless he was unfairly kept at a level for a repeating year.

    All these guys the Reds promoted are still getting an entire second half at a higher level. What’s wrong with that?

  20. Chris I agree with you on Stubbs. I hated that pick. But it seems like Krivsky did well after that.

    A year ago it seems Krivsky drafted Stubbs because he was older, lefthanded, defensive-oriented and might be ready for the big leagues by the time Griffey retired.

    It was probably sound logic. Except who woulda thunked Griffey’s replacement would arrive in the name of Hamilton? Now, Stubbs doesn’t have to be on a fast track or he can be traded.

    Odd how that one has worked out so quickly.

  21. Chris- I think getting hung up on someone’s service clock is where some fans go too far into thinking they’re the GM.

    I mean c’mon, Bruce is going to be cheap for three years regardless. For the next three years we have harang, arroyo, and bailey. we have a lot of young guys playing right now, and we should try to expand that core as much as possible.

    why Bruce should play next year if they aren’t going to compete is because not all rookies are awsome, and it would be nice if bruce was awsome at the same time as some of the other young guys we have. if that takes a year, so be it, get him the experience.

    time to open up your imaginary future checkbook a little pal.

  22. That clock on a player’s service time isn’t just about an imaginary checkbook but starting the player toward free agency that much sooner. Why have that player on the bench eating up service time if he’s nothing more than a 5th outfielder or someone who gets 200-300 ABs? He’s not getting experience either whereas he needs to play. So if he’s not playing regularly there’s ZERO reason to start him toward arbitration and free agency by having him on the MLB roster.

  23. but i want him playing all the time, where did i say i wanted Bruce as a 5th outfielder?

    Deal Dunn or Griffey this season if you can get a top prospect for one of them, move Bruce to AAA for the start of next year, and sign an outfielder of the hatteberg variety as a place holder for Bruce.

    when Bruce beats down the door, and/or the reds fall out of contention, bring him up so he can get experience and contribute in a meaningful way to the reds while we still have some of the good players we have now.

    remember that free agency clock? it ticks for everyone. how long do you think we’ll have ede/phillips/hamilton once they start making money in arbitration?

  24. a kid who just got to double-A you expect to be a fulltime major leaguer next year? ridiculous.

  25. wasn’t bailey in AA at this time last year? what’s the difference exactly? obviously i want him to succeed at AA and AAA first, i feel like i’ve expressed that.

    i just think he will, and i’d rather they didn’t artificially hold him down because i fell like we have to contend in the next few years.

    why is that so ridiculous?

  26. RicknMD,
    Jay Bruce if he follows along with what he is doing, and nothing says he shouldnt because he has hit everywhere he has gone, he will finish this season in AA and begin next season in AAA. Once he is in AAA he is an injury/trade away from being an every day starter at age 21.
    What is so ridiculous about that? I might get your point if it werent Jay Bruce we were talking about, but Jay is currently one of the top 5 prospects in all of baseball. He doesn’t really move at the same pace as other guys becuase he is not of the same ilk as other guys.

  27. Assuming the “promotion happy” comment was pointed at me…and my comment about Griffin and Tatum.

    Both were All Stars in the FSL and both are having great seasons, especially Tatum.

    I think a good/great solid half season should be grounds for promotion.

    Whose promotion exactly has been called for after a “couple of good weeks”?

    And as for roster problems with promotions…there is a lot of roster filler at the AA and AAA level

  28. a kid who just got to double-A you expect to be a fulltime major leaguer next year? ridiculous.

    If he’s the top prospect that everyone says he is, then he should be able to fill a major league job by the end of next season, yes.

    “Promotion happy”. I’ve primarily banged the drum on Medlock and Guevara. They’ve had 1.5 good seasons in AA (not weeks.) Seems Guevara is still in AA where he matched/outperformed other AA pitchers like Medlock, Coutlangus, and Shafer. For a team in desparate need of relief pitching, I can’t understand why a young, successful reliever would spend a year and one half in AA?

  29. Another guy who should be working in Dayton somewhere is Wayne Krivsky. I’m thinking food service or telemarketing.

Comments are closed.

About Chad Dotson

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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