I just received the following from a pretty good source:

OB is actively shopping Dunn to Cubs, Cardinals, and Astros. He has made all of them aware that he will trade Dunn within the division, apparently in an effort to drive the price up. Kearns will stay in the minors until the trade is consummated.

If Dan O’Brien trades Adam Dunn, my days as a Reds fan are over. Period.

About The Author

Blame Chad for creating this mess. Chad launched Redleg Nation in February 2005, and has been writing about the Reds ever since. His first book, "The Big 50: The Men and Moments That Made the Cincinnati Reds" is now available in bookstores and online, at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and wherever fine books are sold. You can also find Chad's musings about the Cincinnati Reds in the pages of Cincinnati Magazine. You can email Chad at chaddotson@redlegnation.com.

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26 Responses

  1. Tom Williams

    I think Dunn should go providing they get something helpful in return like pitching pitching pitching. Hes a poor outfielder and cant hit in the clutch.

  2. Peter

    I feel the same way. I would however, like to step back from the situation and view it in the most rational way possible.

    While trading Dunn to another team in the Central is ludicrous, we must remember that whomever we trade Dunn to is also trading within their division. If we get say, Zambrano (not a chance in hell), from the Cubs, they would potentially face him when our two teams played. In a perfect world, this would balance out.

    On the other hand, OB’s rather poor ability to evaluate talent makes me think that we won’t get anything decent in return. We need pitching in the worst way, but are we going to get a frontline starter the way Dunn is a first rate hitter? Most likely not. In fact, we’ll probably get a few pitching prospects that never turn out.

    I understand that with the advent of “Moneyball” players with Dunn’s skill set are in high demand. But OB is no Billy Beane or Theo Epstein. He’s not smart enough to screw another team by selling his overvalued player.

    I would like to remain a Reds fan. I’m 25 and in my opinion that’s too young to swear off a team forever. I wish the nagging thought in the back of my head that told me “We’re going to get hosed” would go away.

  3. Mike

    They could bring in scabs and I’d still root for them. If we talk about them daily when they are 35-53, I’d say it’s safe to say that we’ll all be lifetime diehard fans… unfortunately 🙁

  4. al

    This i just don’t get.
    The reds aren’t going to be a contender until 2007 at the earliest IMO. If DanO would stick to a plan, we could be real good for a while then. We should be holding on to the young guys, not dishing them off.

    We have so much to trade right now in Randa, Weathers, Aurilia and Ortiz. You should be able to get at least one good pitching prospect or young major leaguer out of that group. Then trade either Casey or Griffey, for hopefully another young pitcher and bring kearns back.

    We should be able to get two pitchers who will help us in two years, when we have a chance. Dunn will still be with us and prducing in his prime then. Will Griffey be producing then? Will casey be with us then? Why would we hold on to those guys, it’s madness.

  5. Mike

    How sick is this? O’Brien is willing to pay Milton $25M over 3 years, but isn’t even willing to go to arbitration with Dunn. This pretty much sums up what’s wrong with this franchise.

  6. Glenn

    Chad, I hope your source is wrong. Trading Dunn, especially within the central division makes no sense at all. I also hope that OB is not as screwed up as I suspect he is.
    Very little this man has done for this season has worked out. You can’t blame Miley or even Uncle Carl for most of it. He overpaid for Milton, (I realize my talent for understatement) and Ortiz, and Weber have not worked out at all. If you couple those mistakes with Wilson’s injury, Jimenez’s poor play/ bad attitude, and Graves’ implosion, you get the 2005 season in a nutshell. If we lose Dunn, especially if its to a club within our own division, I’ll have lost whatever little confindence I had left in this organization. God, they make it hard to be a Reds fan.

  7. Tyler

    I feel physically Ill. Unless we get Zambrano, the no one in the central has anything to offer.

    St Louis system is baren, the Cubs best pitching prospects aren’t any good, and same with the Astros. If he trades him in the division I might blow up. I don’t think I could take it.

  8. Pinski

    O’Brien’s trades haven’t been that bad (I didn’t like the Reisthma trade but it shouldn’t have been a total waste). Now don’t get me wrong I don’t like O’Brien. He makes strange moves like Standridge and Romano. He signs flyball pitchers in a park that is bad for flyball pitchers.

    BUT, if he trades Dunn and doesn’t get a No. 1 starter, a future catcher and either a good middle reliever/closer (and by good I don’t mean weathers and his 4 ERA) or a No. 5 then there is no way the trade is useful. Dunn is one of the best young power hitters in the game and to not get 3 major league almost ready players is a sign of a bad GM.

  9. Scott

    I will refrain from judging O’Brien on dealing Dunn until the deal goes down. I’m hopeful that the simple fact that division rivals may be bidding against each other may be enough to sweeten the pot considerably.

    As much as I’d hate to see Dunn leave, I think that the return for Dunn, Mercker, Randa, Weathers, etc. could be quite impressive. I’ve got hope because the local media here in Houston have laughed at the rumors of Astacio/Nieve/Buchholz for Dunn, saying that the Astros know it’s not nearly enough to get a player of Dunn’s caliber, and even Tim Purpura said on the radio Monday morning that teams’ asking prices are so astronomical that he’s doubtful that he’ll get any substantial deal done. That was in response to a Dunn-related question, by the way, so hopefully Dan O’s got the skills to make just one great deal.

  10. Greg

    “O’Brien’s trades haven’t been that bad ”
    Please name the trades that, in your opinion, have been good.

  11. Glenn

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure the Reitsma trade occurred during Bowden’s watch.

  12. al

    I think the Reitsma trade was during the interim phase between bowden and DanO.

    We didn’t really loose anything when we traded for Ortiz, and at this point i’m williing to give Ramon a chance to turn it around under Rhule, since i think Gullet was to blame for a lot of our pitcher’s woes. If he does that would have been a decent trade, thinking that we were going to contend this year, though Ortiz doesn’t really fit the GAB mold.

    Who knows about acevedo for simpson, neither player is performing really. Has he made any other trades?

    The biggest knocks to DanO are bringing in Milton and Ortiz instead of groundball pitchers, keeping Jiminez, and the rumors about him influencing the lineups and keeping Aurilia in (if they’re true which he denies).

    Weber was a low risk high reward deal that didn’t work out, but it was low risk, so we didn’t really loose anything. Injuries happen, and i don’t see how you can blame DanO for Wilson. He was cheap for the market. Graves had nothing to do with DanO.

    If anything, i think DanO has been to slow and plodding in deal making, so hopefully that will pay off for us in this situation.

  13. Pinski

    Glenn your wrong. It was DOB’s first move.

    Greg, I said not that bad. That doesn’t mean good.
    He probably got equal value (albet at a younger age) for Lidle and Jones.
    Reistma for Bong and Nelson. I didn’t like this trade and I really still don’t like this trade. BUT Nelson could possibly be the equivalent to Reistma a few years down the line. Bong is still young (26) and could still be a useful Major League reliever if only as a loogy.
    Lidle for Javon Moran, Joe Wilson, and Elizardo Ramirez. Crappy pitcher for 3 young guys.
    Jones for Hancock and Machado. Really old pitcher for 2 guys, one who could be juan castro and a another who was supposed to be in our starting rotation.
    Charlie Manning for Gabe White. At a time when we were compteting he was trying to fix the staff. Yeah Gabe White was awful, he was considerably better than he was in NY.
    Ramon Ortiz for Dustin Mosley. I didn’t like this trade, I probably never will because Ortiz is a flyball pitcher. However Ortiz is pitching as well as Moseley is.

    So Greg, which of these are bad?
    I would say on first glance Reistma is the only bad one, but if bong and Nelson are given a year or two they could both be useful MLB players.

  14. Scott

    Al,

    You can certainly blame DanO for the Wilson situation if it is true that DanO knew of the severity of Wilson’s shoulder injury prior to signing him to a 2-year contract.

  15. Glenn

    According to Baseball Reference.com Reitsma was traded to the Braves on 3/26/2004. Was OB the GM back then?

  16. Greg

    Just because Moseley is not pitching well for Angels AAA doesn’t make it a good move. Ortiz wasn’t good last year, was about to get released by the halos, and the Reds give up a legit pitching prospect for that?

    None of those trades are good. IMO, if it isn’t good, the only option left is bad. If he is not improving the team, that is bad. If he isn’t improving the farm clubs to the extent that it will help the future of this club, that is bad. I don’t see a single name in the list of acquired players that is projected to have an impact on the major league roster. Perhaps, slightly, Ramirez.

    It’s like if I had 20 important projects I needed to complete to “fix” my company. After one year, all I’ve done is shuffle the paperwork around on my desk and organize it into nicer binders instead of the manilla folders they used to sit in. Now, I still have 20 problems that need fixing, a lot of time has passed, and during that year 10 more problems have come up. The company is in much worse shape, and I still have started tackling any of the original problems.

    In essence, what I am saying is that making a bunch of moves that can’t be classified as bad but also aren’t good moves boils down to a bunch of bad moves.

  17. Billingsfan

    Nice to see O’Brien has a defender or two here. Ultimately, his legacy will be what he leaves us in the farm system, now almost depleted. That’s a long term project. I’ll be sorry to see Dunn go, especially to a division opponent, but the fact is that he is going to go anyway, we’ve got a plethora of outfielders, and so moving him is smart business.

  18. Chris

    Any trade of Dunn would be just idiotic. He’s not going to get Zambrano or Prior in return. Hitters, generally, are more consistent and a better bet than pitchers. So trading Dunn, who’s almost guaranteed to give you a 950+ OPS for 10 years, is inherently risky. When you trade him for a pitcher, it’s more so. When Dan O’Brien is the one selecting the pitcher you get in return…

    One other thing, which I’ve been saying for 7 years now: When do we stop trading good players away for young prospects? Scott talks about what we could get in return, but this is a pattern we’ve been watching since fricking Dmitri Young came up. “Trade young veteran for young stud prospect. Watch 3 of 4 prospects fail. Wait for prospect to develop into actual stud. Declare ‘we’re building around Stud.’ Fool around for two years making dumb moves, until Stud becomes eligible for arbitration. Use arbitration as excuse to trade Stud. Return to step 1.”

    How many times have we heard this song and dance?

  19. Mike

    Great point Chris. We were building the franchise around Adam Dunn and Austin Kearns just a few years ago. That was a different GM, but why not dump Casey’s salary to sign Dunn? Move Dunn to 1B, there goes the “he’s a defensive liability argument”. I’m not against us dealing Jr if we get something great. Let’s be honest, as much as I’d love to see him retire as a Red and have some success here for the next few years, the Reds will probably be in better position to free the salary up now and move that towards building a pitching staff. His market value is better now than it has been the past 3 years.

  20. Chris W

    How high exactly is Casey’s market value? Yes he has a great batting average but only 3 homeruns and 30 some rbis. His DPs make him a risk and what team is in contention that needs a 1b with those stats?

  21. CardNilly » Blog Archive » Astros Preview

    […] Quick Hits: This is awesome — even as a horse, Pujols stomps all over the rest of the field … Beyond the Boxscore has their rankings up again, and the Cards are finally on top. In their Cardblurb, Dan Scotto says the truest of true things: “This is probably the easiest way to win games — outscore your opponents by a lot.” Fo’ shizzle. … Someone was wondering what Ozzie was up to these days? Turns out he’s giving tv interviews out in San Diego, or at least was yesterday … Getting that feeling that you’re not really quite sure what the State of the Union is up in the Greater Brewerland area? Well, just in time for their visit next week, Al and Friends have a great roundtable, and Baseball Crank digs into the numbers to assess the Brewers’ performance so far this year … Redleg Nation checks in with the Adam Dunn trade rumors, and sez it’s going to be the Cards, Cubs, or the ‘Stros. I’d be happy to have him, provided that we didn’t give up too much. Dunn as an Astro scares the bejeezus out of me, though. I think we’re being used as a stalking horse again, just to drive up price (remember Randy Johnson last year?). … Crawfish Boxes (to go on the links to the left soon…) sez there are some hot and heavy Millar-to-Houston rumors. I’d rather they get Millar than Dunn, that’s for certain … View from the Bleachers finishes off with the Cubs pitchers mid-terms. […]

  22. Brian B.

    I’d say why is this a “pretty good source.” And you better not say RedsZone or I’ll smack you.

    Even if O’brien wants to save his own job, he would be well served to keep everyone and let the team get better just by doing nothing at all. If he panicks and tries to trade Dunn, he’s not going to find what he likes. Dunn isn’t going anywhere.

  23. Chad

    Can’t reveal the source, but it’s not rumor-oriented. Certainly nothing like Redszone.

    It’s from an actual human being who has reason to know. As always, take it with a grain of salt, but I believe the source.

  24. Ryan

    The team we can get the most from is Oakland they are willing to give up Blanton and Jiro Garcia 2 young pitchers. For Dunn. Overall it is good.

  25. MR MILWAUKEE

    WHAT IS UP WITH RAMON ORTIZ BAD ATTITUDE?Role model?No way do I want my kids to see this whiner.Throw the bat,then a temper tantrum?Pro?NO WAY!
    Forget the apologies Trade em!
    GOOD NIGHT RAMON!GOOD RIDDANCE!