Game Thread

Pirates at Reds (July 13, 2014)

The Reds and Pirates conclude their series with today’s rubber match at GABP. The first two games have been exciting and I expect nothing short of that in today’s finale. Both teams are looking for a win and the series in order to stick right with the Brewers and Cardinals who are now tied atop the division.

Today’s game concludes the first half of the regular season. We will all get to relax for a few days and enjoy the Homerun Derby, the All-Star game, and a day off. Let’s hope the Reds have some momentum heading into those 3 “off” days.

Discuss the game here Reds fans. Go Reds!

Lineup:
1. Hamilton CF
2. Cozart SS
3. Frazier 3B
4. Heisey LF
5. Bruce RF
6. Mesoraco C
7. Pena 1B
8. Negron 2B
9. Cueto P

447 thoughts on “Pirates at Reds (July 13, 2014)

  1. It can be 3 feet outside and Chris is going to try and pull it. Pathetic. You would think he is smarter then that.

  2. That is going to come back to bite. The only plus is that we are going to be in to the Pirates already tired bullpen next inning most likely.

  3. Well that’s another opportunity squandered. I don’t think they would have let Liriano pitch to Bruce, but there’s just no reason to have Heisey hitting in that spot of the order.

  4. Twice the bases have been loaded and we’ve come up empty. Hope this doesn’t come back to bite us

  5. Frazier had him 2-0 and swung at a pitch in the dirt … and for the record, would have liked to see Mes there instead of Heisey. Doggone lineup hijinks.

    • Yes and he swung at ball 5 or ball 6 for strike 3.

      Reds hitters have to learn when they have the count advantage, they are not obligated to swing at borderline pitches or even “pitchers’” pitches in the strike zone. That was the story of this AB

  6. Reds need to go back to school to learn situational baseball. How many times are we going to have bases loaded 1 out and get absolutely NOTHING out of it?

  7. Not sure again why Price doesn’t have Mesoraco hitting 4th. Of all people, why Heisey hitting 4th. He did hit a home run yesterday, but is not consistent and strikes out too much.

      • He’s using previous batter-pitcher matchups, which many other managers do, too. That may not be the best way to go, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t know what he’s doing. Your constant statements like that about Price are pretty unsupported.

        • Intentionally having an inferior hitter 4th with superior hitters 5th and 6th is compelling evidence that a manager doesn’t know what he’s doing. The fact that some veteran managers (like, say, Dusty Baker) might also make the same mistake is completely irrelevant. The standard for “knowing what he’s doing” shouldn’t be “makes the same mistakes other dumb managers make.”

        • Price was willing to bat Votto and Bruce back to back. He moved Votto to second. He moved Frazier to second. He’s been a big improvement over Baker in lineup construction. He’s insisted on batting Hamilton first, which I would think some of you would like. That’s not to say I like everything he does with the lineup. But your criticism of him borders on hysteria.

        • I have a feeling that Price knows about a hundred times more than you guys do about setting the Reds lineup. Again, it’s one thing to disagree with a specific thing that he’s doing (he obviously doesn’t think Heisey is inferior to Mesoraco against Liriano) and another thing to say he “doesn’t know what he’s doing.” That kind of hyperbole doesn’t really add too much to the dialogue.

        • Hey Zip, long time no see.

          Even as a rookie he is far, far better then Dusty was. Hopefully this will be last time we see CH hit in the clean-up spot.

        • Price is an improvement over Baker, that’s for sure. But asking a guy who isn’t good enough to be an everyday starter to hit cleanup, ahead of a former all-star and a current all-star — there’s just no way to defend it. Period. My mechanic knows a lot more about cars than I do, but if he forgets to tighten the lug nuts when he changes a tire, do I not have a right to say “that’s a very stupid and dangerous mistake”? Other mechanics have done exactly the same thing and they all know much more about cars than I do, but that doesn’t make the mistake any less stupid or dangerous.

        • I’d have Mesoraco bat fourth and not Heisey. Price is doing it that way based on Heisey’s past record against Liriano, which is strong, although just based on eight at bats. I disagree with Price using match-up data like that for lineups. But managers do it all the time. Batting someone fourth instead of sixth isn’t the same thing as not tightening a lug nut. I wasn’t disagreeing with the claim about Heisey. It’s just for some people anytime they disagree with one of countless decisions a manager makes they feel like they have to say the manager is stupid or doesn’t know anything. Price is incredibly smart. If you’ve ever listened to him objectively, you’d know that.

        • Prior to today’s game, Heisey had 30 plate appearances at the #4 spot. His OPS was .556 and he had 2 RBI. His numbers are significantly better hitting 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, and 7th (and 9th, but obviously that’s mostly as a pinch hitter). Was none of that relevant to today’s game? Because if it isn’t relevant today, then it shouldn’t be relevant in any other game, and Heisey might as well hit cleanup any time we’re facing a pitcher he’s had any success against.

        • You’ve read what I wrote, right? I agree with you about Heisey and Mesoraco. Looking at how Heisey has done in the various batting spots isn’t relevant. It doesn’t matter. Plus they’re small samples. The reason Mesoraco should bat ahead of Heisey is that he’s simply a better hitter. He’s having an MVP season. He should be hitting third or fourth every game. Price is using hitter-pitcher history and that’s been proven to be meaningless for sample size reasons.

        • Probably every major league umpire get 99% of the calls right, but we still manage to distinguish good ones from bad ones. The difference between a good ump and a bad ump is how many of the CLOSE plays they get right. I’d apply the same argument to managers. 99% of their decisions are pretty obvious and almost everyone would do more or less the same thing, so I’m not impressed at all by the fact that most of Price’s decisions seem pretty reasonable. The problem is that every time a decision isn’t so obvious, such as lineup construction, he seems to make at least one glaring mistake every single day. Just because a mechanic can consistently get four matching tires onto the car and consistently tighten most of the lug nuts won’t impress me. If he leaves one or two loose nuts every time he changes a tire, at some point I’m going to have to question if he’s really able to handle the job.

        • I get what you’re saying. I’ve been critical of his lineup decisions. I don’t think in the end they are a very important part of a manager’s job. Managing the players – communicating, messaging, attitude – off the field, are far more important than individual lineup decisions. We just can’t see that part of the manager’s job, so it’s hard to evaluate.

        • Zippy

          One word: gestalt

          Skipper Price makes his share of errors but they appear to be outweighed by what he does well. If he is willing to grow in the job, he could be one of the better ones. If the Reds manage to make the playoffs, he probably is one of the favorites for Manager of the Year. Not bad for a rookie.

          Love that Sam loves soft rock, who would have figured that?

        • My last comment for now: If Votto and BP were able to play today, Heisey would almost certainly be hitting 7th regardless of his past success against today’s starting pitcher. So it turns out that even Price doesn’t agree with his own theory under normal circumstances.

    • Probably Frazier’s worst AB all season given the situation. Just brutal. Heisey gave us what we should expect. CH just melts in those high leverage circumstances – doesn’t even give himself a chance. Boy oh boy.

  8. rain rain rain…. any one know forecast for next few hours? all day thing or just passing rain?

    why is heisy hitting 4th? just joined so what’s going on. why is Mes hitting 6th? did Price have a bad dream again?

  9. This poses a real dilemma for Price if they decide they can’t bring Cueto back out after the rain.

    I think I would treat it as a high leverage situation and bring in Jumbo then go to y middle med in the 6th.

    • This is the key point. Not the one Thom keeps blabbing about getting the game in. It’s about whether Cueto has to be finished for the day and the result of relying on the bullpen the rest of the day.

    • why does the keyboard not type the letters I think??? :)

      Try it this way:

      I think I would treat it as a high leverage situation and bring in Jumbo then go to my middle men in the 6th.

      • They need 2 outs and really really don’t want to pitch to Cutch in this inning. If they get to him, it is going to be with the bases loaded or scoring damage already done or both in a worst case scenario..

        • I say take one out at a time. Polanco is up first, after that is a couple of strong RHs. Hate to use Jumbo this early unless they let him stay in for another inning. Please no JJ or Ondru though.

      • Parra would also turn around Walker. Probably as good as or better choice than Diaz.

        Just don’t give me LeCure or Ondro especially of they have to face Cutch.

  10. I wasn’t able to respond at the time, but I wanted to reply to the person that said the Reds could not hit with bases loaded. They are currently 5th in OBP, 3rd in batting average, and 1st in slugging in MLB with the bases loaded.

  11. that might be true, hasn’t done anything to help them twice in this game or during last nights affair.

    • That may be true, but just because they didn’t this time doesn’t mean they can’t. Even the best team in baseball is going to fail more than 6 out of 10 times there.

      • blog for today’s game, i did not say they couldn’t hit for the whole season. not dogging on the Reds, just expressing frustration for todays game.

    • There you have the RISP argument in a smaller nutshell. It’s not a repeatable skill. Reds have been lucky at it so far this year while in other RISP situations less so etc. etc. etc.

        • I’m not being derogatory or anything, just we were talking about it last night or perhaps the night before and this is another concrete example of it. Also people are piling on to your comment because it’s a rain delay and not much else is going on. No worries, should have some more baseball soon.

    • I just feel bad for Jay because if the ump calls those “strikes” it destroys his ability to have a good at bat. He -has- to swing at anything close down there after a call like that so he ends up looking awful when he K’s on it. Luckily the next two pitches weren’t even close so it didn’t matter.

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