Reds - General

202 thoughts on “Game Thread – 3 (Reds at Pirates – 2013.10.01)

  1. The best possible situation for 2014 is as follows:

    Choo is somehow re-signed and Ludwick is either moved or simply used as a utility bat. Hamilton in Center, Choo in Left, Bruce in Right.

    Bronson Arroyo is given his walking papers for a job well done over the years, and Leake is sent to the bull-pen (or also moved, because I’ve had about all I can take of him). Both Cingrani and Chapman are put into the rotation, and you have a starting five of Latos / Chapman / Cueto / Cingrani / Bailey. Uf you need a 6th starter during the season, you can either stretch Leake back out from the bull-pen or sign a journey man. By August, we’ll have a better idea if Stephenson is ready to be called up; or if he needs another year.

    And Dusty Baker is fired. That sounds like a winning team to me in ’14; however it’s not all peaches and gravy … because let’s be honest. Beyond Stephenson (and maybe Jesse Winker); the Reds farm system is flat out horrific.

  2. This team has gone completely stale. Worse than yesterday’s pizza. Ownership cannot let this stand. I don’t think they will. Time to lead two old studs, WJ and Baker, out to pasture. The retirement home is ready.
    Time to bring in some fresh youthful exuburence. New attitudes. New approaches. New leadership. New philosophies. A couple of new RH hitters.

  3. If they fire Dusty (which I doubt) who’s the replacement?
    What team is happy with their manager (other than Tampa)? Mattingly was almost fired, Yankee fans ridicule Girardi, Hurdle was panned before this year, Francona was run out of Boston.
    Everyone’s boss is a jerk, everyone’s MLB manager is an idiot.
    Dusty infuriates me but imho tonight was about Cueto and Liriano.

  4. Baker is gone only if he chooses to leave and the window has likely closed on this roster. No big moves in the offseason to address the lack of speed, lack of punch in the middle of the line-up and the inability to perform well when the spotlight is on and this team’s nice playoff run is over. And given the constraints on the budget heightened by the Votto and Phillips contracts and the lack of depth in the minors, the outlook for 2014 is not good.

    And the Reds are also stuck with Ludwick and his 7 million dollar contract next year.

  5. You know, it doesn’t feel quite as bad as if the Reds had been tied through 8 and lost the game in the bottom of the 9th. They were never in this game.

    And Bob C was sitting front and center and witnessed how his team was not only stinking up the joint but also who was orchestrating this mess..

    No, count on it, Dusty and B Jacoby are gone, and it just might be that Reds players are sick of them as well.

    Good riddance.

  6. We’ve got all winter to discuss and argue why but this team was simply out of gas, past running. On empty.

    Consider for a minute that the first two pitchers used had both been out injured going on three months and had made little more than cameo appearances since returning. And those were arguably their best two options.

    When the story of this season is written after the immediate emotions have settled a little, the lead line is going to have to be about a front office that found them no support as guy after guy went down or played injured past the point he should have because the bench was so pathetic. And that is not to hold the first line management blameless, it is to say job done by front office was several iterations worse.

    • @OhioJim: They ran out of gas rather quick, don’t you think? They looked in pretty good shape against the Dodgers and Cards on the next to last homestand (6-1). I guess they never saw the Mets coming.

      • @CharlotteNCRedsFan: Charlotte, I lucked out in watching the Reds play the Cards and Dodgers in that series. The Red’s looked awfully good that week and for once one of my Red’s road trips turned out successfully. On my only west coast swing a few years ago (when I traveled to CA to watch the Reds play in SF, LA and SD – the Reds went a disappointing 0-3) – so I am eternally grateful for that trip to Cincinnati in early September, as it made my season.

        GO REDS!

        And make the necessary changes to become a force again – you have some of the pieces now improvise and improve.

  7. Is it Opening day yet? Surely spring training has started by now? This season has been over for a long time now. Some people saw it, some didn’t. I was somewhere in the middle. (Most of us were most likely) Baseball always brings hopes of new beginnings, but sadly I think big changes need to happen. Some changes are going to happen just due to costs and contracts forcing them to happen. Other changes will be made by choices. Let’s hope the Reds brass makes the right choices. Only time will tell.

  8. The most important thing the Reds need to do next year is keep Price as pitching coach at all cost to stay a perennial playoff team like the Cardinals, with a chance to win a World Series every year. There is even more young talented pitching coming up from the minors starting with Robert Stephenson, and Cingrani will even be better next year, with a bright future.

  9. Sorry, but it is going to be hard for me to root for the Parrots, even though I’d rather the Cardinals be covered with a rash. It isn’t that I want somebody else to win, it’s that I don’t care who wins.

    When the team I follow has rolled over and died like this one, it challenges the senses.

    I don’t much feel any pain over this since I gave up that emotion 6 days ago when the Mets proved there is no urgency to a pennant race.

    So the Parrots can win if they want — all I can say is … boola boola.

  10. Injuries. Votto is irreproachable. No applicable trades available at deadline. Two, tough, divisional opponents. Random, odd, bounces and plays. No legitimate alternative manager available. Dusty gets an official pass. Same lineup next year (-Choo, Ha!) (+ some random, “veteran” washup), (+ Arroyo, probably). AND, Dusty Baker, check. There you go. 2013 recap & 2014 predict. Good-bye.http://redlegnation.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif

  11. Sorry, but i need to vent a little. Can’t get the image of Cueto laughing when the Reds were down 4-1 in the 4th. Really, what was so funny? If a player did that on my college team, he’d be ordered off the field so fast it would make his head spin. I’d love to see the following current Reds shown the exit: baker, jocketty, cueto, jacoby, ondrusek, arroyo. Trade cueto for someone who can hit on the left side of the infield. Meanwhile, Phillips’s shtick is tiresome and I’m sick of seeing the lack of hustle running–er, loafing to first. Well, now I guess I have to suffer through the fall watching marvyn Lewis torpedo the Bengals. Ok, I’ve vented. Enough.

  12. I’ve been kind of wondering for awhile if the Reds should trade Brandon Phillips. He is a very good player overall, but I get the feeling he is overrated, and while likeable, I think the episode where he cursed out the Cincinnati Enquirer reporter with Dusty sitting there set a bad light on Phillips, and Baker as well. Baker just laughed it off, and didn’t seem to care that one of his players was acting like an 11 year old.

    I don’t know these guys, or what the clubhouse is like, but their seems to be a lack of leadership. On the physical side, I think Phillips may have been injured, but I think it would possibly be wise to explore trading him while he still has value and health.

    I wonder if Atlanta would be interested in Phillips.

    Oh well, man that is a lot of money owed to Baker. But I do think if they bring him back it sets a negative tone for the Reds next year. I wouldn’t say they can’t bring him back, but his teams have collapsed the 3 years they’ve made the playoffs. He deserves credit for helping bring a winner back to the Reds, but it seems like he does not have the touch to bring the best out of his teams when it comes down to the playoffs.

    • @JerBear: As I said on here a few days ago, I’d shop Phillips at least to gauge interest and what I could get in return. He wouldbe physically hard to replace at 2nd, but I wonder if he does more harm than good. The injury may have effected his hitting down the stretch, but his general behavior/attitude is getting old.

    • @JerBear: As they say, sell high, and Phillips value is at a high. Good time to include him in a trade. I have a feeling he’s not the best clubhouse influence in spite of his jovial appearance on the field.

  13. I’ve been saying it all night. They have to let him go. He has had 4 years and 3 chances in post season with this core simce they got over the “hump” in 2010. Still, not a post season series win in those 4 wins. As its been stated, he is 2-7 in the post season with the Reds and now managed 2 collapses In a row to end seasons. Lost 3 in a row last year, lost 6 in a row this year giving up home field and the WC game.

    They have to let him go. What would they say? 90 wins? 3.5 million? It doesn’t cut it and they know that at this point. Baker has forced them into a corner now where it’s royaly piss off the fans or let him go.

    Bob and Walt are going to look out for Bob and Walt before they look out for Baker getting his last year. I’m betting Bob will eat the 3.5 before he crosses the line in the sand with the fans over Baker at this point.

    • @brandon11: watching Madden and Francona talking….i feel sick and Castellini should, too. Granted Francona and Madden have no stories to tell about Hank Aaron

  14. @Ohio Jim. You are dead on. What does it say about the pitching staff at the end of the year that the Reds were forced to use Cueto and Marshall in the biggest game of the year when both had almost no time to preppare for such a big game? Given the way the season ended for Latos, Bailey and Arroyo I’m wondering if any of them were totally healthy.

    Oh well it wouldn’t have mattered with the anemic offensive output.

  15. The reds have major issues all around the field, save a few positions. However, one thing I would love to see is Mesoraco catching AT LEAST 4 out of every 5 days of the week. Hanigan should be the back up next year.

  16. @JerBear Not sure anyone would take Phillips. His act actually got a little old this year. I’m wondering how popular he is with his team mates

  17. You can be the biggest homer there is: but this team never belonged in the playoffs. At least we now have an October worthy of postseaon baseball.

      • @jessecuster44: There were a LOT of BAD teams in the National League this year. Just how many MEDALS are we willing to give out, to consider a season a “success”? It gets to be a little ridiculous when one is chastised for criticizing the shortcomings of this team, only because they “technically” finished in FIFTH PLACE. It’s just silly. Nobody in the real workforce would put this on their resume.

  18. BP’s act needs to move on. When he starts getting sloppy on D, his value takes a huge hit. Something turned for me when he said he deserved as much money than Votto, and was hurt by the Reds for locking in Votto first. That can’t do good things in the clubhouse. Dusty and BP seem to epitomize the lack of hustle, fight, and desire that haunted this team all year long.

    • @josephneely25: because Cueto has a hitch in his delivery that causes him to get injured. He also came up mighty small tonight, but is good enough to get a bat in return. Reds have pitching depth. Whatvexactly has Cueto contributed since September, 2012?

  19. I was a little surprised Mesoraco didn’t start tonight. I thought he was going to start. Pirates/Steelers do have speed, but Hannigan really didn’t have a good year. With all the negativity, I forget this team was actually a good team!

    But I was looking at the standings and the Reds had the 10th best record in baseball. It seems that they were not as good as we thought they were.

    Kind of a piece work bullpen, a inconsistent offense, and a solid rotation made for a good, but not great year.

  20. I didn’t enjoy witnessing Cueto’s jovial attitude, after giving up crucial runs and being yanked, but, I’ve come to expect that casual attitude, under this manager. To pin the blame this loss solely on Cueto, though, as many on here are doing, is just wrong. Yes, he had a strong record against Pittsburgh (even in Pittsburgh). But he had pitched exactly TWO GAMES since returning from the DL. Both were against sub .500 teams. I’m not saying Baker shouldn’t have started Cueto tonight (I agreed with the decision), but, in a one-game/play-in, against a +.500 team (actual playoff contender…who had just swept you…at home) you’d think Baker would have had a plan B. Which I truly thought was Latos. And I don’t care what you try to argue, I don’t but the whole “bone chip” thing. The whole “bone chip” thing that still, was, evidently, going to allow for a divisional series start? Okay? No. Sorry. Dusty Baker will always blow opportunities to win big games. ALWAYS.

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