2013 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Titanic Struggle Recap: TOS*

Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….

FINAL
Cincinnati 0
Milwaukee 2

W: W. Peralta (6-9)
L: T. Cingrani (3-1)
BOX SCORE

POSITIVES
–Tony Cingrani was good again: seven innings, two runs allowed on three hits. Cingrani struck out ten, but made one mistake, allowing a two-run homer to Milwaukee’s Logan Schafer in the fifth inning. The kid deserved better than this, but…

NEGATIVES
–TOS*

–Three stupid hits for the mighty Redlegs offense. Just terrible.

–Chris Heisey was removed from the game after being hit by a pitch. The players on this team are dropping like flies.

–Derrick Robinson replaced Heisey in the lineup, and later scored Cincinnati’s only run of the night. No, wait, the umpire called Robinson out as he tried to score on what would have been an inside-the-park homer. Replays clearly showed that Robinson was safe.

There’s your human element, for those of you who think that’s a good thing.

–The Reds just made Brewers pitcher Wily Peralta look like a Hall-of-Famer.

NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–Sometimes, it really seems like this year’s team is just snake-bitten.

As Lance noted, the Reds have lost four of their last five, to two teams who are a combined 25 games under .500. This team is struggling, and there’s no way to deny it. I don’t have any answers.

–Sigh…. I can’t really argue with those of you who contend that this is the low point of the season. I guess that means things can only get better, right? Right?

A terrible showing tonight, Redlegs. Just awful. Milton is disappointed.

A terrible showing tonight, Redlegs. Just awful. Milton is disappointed.

*This Offense Stinks

Source: FanGraphs

117 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap: TOS*

  1. Bob, it’s time to start firing people. (Baker/Jacoby) You can’t lose to the Mariners and then subsequently drop the first two games of the series against the Brewers. The Reds haven’t been playing well against winning teams, these are the games they’re supposed to feast on to boost their record.

    When you get complete game shutout by Wily Peralta, then it’s time to fire your batting coach at the VERY least.

    • Mr. Castellini either A. Doesn’t care this manager is turning his team into a friggin embarrassment or B. He’s just another typical clueless rich owner that couldn’t tell the difference between a hockey puck and baseball.

  2. One “bright” spot (or perhaps just some consolation): over their last 10 games the Cards, Pirates and Reds are each 5-5, 4-6, and 5-5, respectively.

  3. Was out to dinner with a friend tonight so I didn’t see the game. At the table next to me was Phil Castellini.

    I read through the game thread. Sounds like I didn’t miss much from the Reds. Get ‘em tomorrow!

  4. NOW was the time to make a move with the Cards and Pirates playing .500 ball, but nope this team is playing putrid baseball. We have no energy or urgency. We have so many holes, I think it might just not be the Reds year in 2013. Shame that Broxton isn’t healthy, he could have been trade bait.

  5. Don’t expect the offense to know what to do with Johnny Hellweg (who?) tomorrow, either. Reds are notorious for making AAA call-ups unhittable. Not even joking here: tomorrow could very well be beyond brutal.

  6. Also, side note… what in the world did Heisey ever do to the Brewers? 2 games in the series, and 2 HBP and almost caught a third one under his chin.

    So I just want to know.. did he date the Roenicke’s daughter and then dump her or something?

  7. You don’t fire people because you got complete game shutout by a bad pitcher. People need to be evaluated over long periods of time. They have years of observation on Jacoby and Baker, so whether they are good or bad, one bad game vs Wily Peralta isn’t what one should look at.

    • You don’t fire people because you got complete game shutout by a bad pitcher.People need to be evaluated over long periods of time.They have years of observation on Jacoby and Baker, so whether they are good or bad, one bad game vs Wily Peralta isn’t what one should look at.

      It’s not the reason, but it can be the catalyst.

      The reason is because Jacoby simply isn’t a good batting coach. Who has he managed to help develop? His years with Stubbs? Cozart hasn’t gotten better from his rookie season, Frazier hasn’t gotten better from his rookie season, Bruce’s slumps didn’t improve until Votto taught him to hit opposite field. Mesoraco has gotten better from his rookie season but that improvement was from AAA coaching.

  8. Well, one positive is that the number of f-bomb laden comments should decrease after today.

  9. @Josh: Agreed that the Reds should have been making hay while the other two were cooled off. Sooner or later all three are likely to get hot again although probably not as hot as before. That was unreal to have three teams in a league playing like that at the same time let alone three in the same division.

  10. @ToddAlmighty: Could well be something in the baseball “code” that we outsiders will never know about. And in these times if a media person is savvy enough to pick up on it, they likely never will tell what it is (officially on the record at least, except maybe for C.Trent who seems to be a throw back in many ways).

    Or it could be something even squirrelier. Maybe somebody has heard through an agent that Heisey could be a piece in a trade that ultimately could impact the Brewers in a way they don’t like and don’t want to see happen.

    • OhioJim:

      Or it could be something even squirrelier. Maybe somebody has heard through an agent that Heisey could be a piece in a trade that ultimately could impact the Brewers in a way they don’t like and don’t want to see happen.

      Jim, you’re the ultimate conspiracy theorist. I don’t know how many of the plunkings of Heisey were intentional, if any. Heisey has been looking outside and hitting outside breaking pitches so the Pirates have been pitching him inside. I said last nite that I hope they keep doing that, as Heisey can turn so quickly on an inside pitch. Turns out I shouldn’t have wished for it.

  11. @ToddAlmighty: I’m not saying anyone should or shouldn’t be fired, just that today was a bad game, and making decisions after bad games isn’t typically a good idea. (Or good games, for that matter.)

    I don’t think batting coaches matter that much, and I blame the organization first and foremost for hitters not having discipline up there (though it’s possible that it’s just a physical limitation of some players).

  12. Brandon Phillips…yikes.

    Perhaps Dusty can rationalize BP’s plummeting offense as an excuse to drop Cozart to the bottom of the order?

    • Brandon Phillips…yikes.

      Perhaps Dusty can rationalize BP’s plummeting offense as an excuse to drop Cozart to the bottom of the order?

      Phillips is right at what he produced offensively last year. Or just a tiny bit below. He is a good player, no doubt. But not a great one by any means, and overrated by lots of people in my opinion. There’s plenty of room for good players. Phillips is not the reason the team’s not in a better position.

      • Phillips is right at what he produced offensively last year.Or just a tiny bit below.He is a good player, no doubt.But not a great one by any means, and overrated by lots of people in my opinion.There’s plenty of room for good players.Phillips is not the reason the team’s not in a better position.

        Actually, BP’s a bit under from where he was last season. But, also, since he came back from injury, he’s batting 202/254. That isn’t even Stubbs-like.

      • Phillips is right at what he produced offensively last year.Or just a tiny bit below.He is a good player, no doubt.But not a great one by any means, and overrated by lots of people in my opinion.There’s plenty of room for good players.Phillips is not the reason the team’s not in a better position.

        I mostly agree…

        I should have been more specific, BP’s last month + early July have been abysmal. .209/.269 /.279, & 231/.276/.346.

        I have no doubt that BP will likely end up with his typical slash line, barring injury. But BP has been terrible for almost 1.5 months now. Between Cozart & Hanigan, this offense can’t afford BP to continue hitting so poorly. I’m kinda resigned to Cozart, Hanigan, and the LF being weak hitters. So if 1 of Choo, Votto, BP, or Bruce go into a slump, this offense is going to struggle.

        (and yes I realize the HBP i partially responsible for his performance…as usual Reds would have been better of DLing the guy and letting him heal…but then again…Cesar Izturis… :cry:)

        Anyways, my original post’s point was that perhaps Dusty would “shake things up” by putting BP in the #2 spot, perhaps even stacking his 4 best hitters back-to-back. Wishful thinking, I know.

  13. Dick Pole exits and Bryan Price takes over, rotation and BPen seems to have gotten better, maybe luck, maybe different approach – just an opinion

    • Dick Pole exits and Bryan Price takes over, rotation and BPen seems to have gotten better, maybe luck, maybe different approach – just an opinion

      Latos wasn’t here in the late 2000s, Bailey was very young, Cueto was very young, Leake wasn’t here. And no pitching coach teaches Arroyo anything.

    • Dick Pole exits and Bryan Price takes over, rotation and BPen seems to have gotten better, maybe luck, maybe different approach – just an opinion

      Or it could be that the quality of players has gotten better.

      Think about it, in his last season, we had guys like Micah Owings, Kip Wells, Justin Lehr and Edinson Volquez starting a significant number of games for the Reds. You could have the ghost of Cy Young as your pitching coach, and you’re not going to do much with that group.

  14. @Hank Aarons Teammate: 3 years is long enough. Jacoby CANNOT coach hitters. Name one hitter besides Votto who has actually improved under Jacoby’s tenure.

    Something needs to happen. The last month has been a disgrace.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: 3 years is long enough.Jacoby CANNOT coach hitters.Name one hitter besides Votto who has actually improved under Jacoby’s tenure.

      Something needs to happen. The last month has been a disgrace.

      Honestly, I don’t really care if they fire Jacoby. I doubt much will change, but I suppose you never know. I wouldn’t say, though, that it can’t get worse, just because those are famous last words…

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: 3 years is long enough.Jacoby CANNOT coach hitters.Name one hitter besides Votto who has actually improved under Jacoby’s tenure.

      Something needs to happen. The last month has been a disgrace.

      I’m pretty doubtful that hitting coaches do much teaching of fundamentals at the mlb level, just as English profs don’t teach grammar to graduate assistants.

      • I’m pretty doubtful that hitting coaches do much teaching of fundamentals at the mlb level, just as English profs don’t teach grammar to graduate assistants.

        The thing is, they can teach the players to make adjustments to their swings, adjustments to their hitting methodology (like if they are in fact swinging at too many first pitches or being fooled too much on the low and away breaking balls). After all, if there was no use for them, does one really think any owner would pay for them?

  15. All true but it does seem that change has helped to change the pitching maybe a coincidence but I recall many for DPole firing and then it happened and seems like Pryce has helped to improve the pitching – good luck or dumb luck – just sayin

  16. How does that umpire miss robinsons hand touching home plate? The ump is literally 3 feet from the play, with a direct line of vision. You blow a call like that, you should get suspended without pay for a series.

  17. @CP: So you are saying that maybe now that Phillips never gets on base he’s perfect for the 2nd spot in Dusty’s mind.

    You may be right. I’m depressed.

  18. @CI3J: The notion that all the Reds need to do is get better hitters and make the hitting coach look good. This hitting coach has had the same vapid strategy for 4 years and almost no hitter has improved under Jacoby’s tutelage.

    Firing Jacoby now isn’t going to matter at all for this season. The same philosophy runs from the top down. What strikes me as bizarre is that the players know what results they are producing and are evidently satisfied with getting 3 hits off Wily Peralta.

    But while we’re on the topic — if you don’t plan to steal second base, then at least try to NOT get picked off of first base.

  19. @steveschoen: Yeah, my point wasn’t even to criticize BP so much as wishfully hoping Dusty would use BP’s 1.5 month long downslide to rationalize shaking up his lineup.

    I’m less worried than most about the offense. They can win with the guys they have. They have such a ridiculously small margin of error though with their horrid bench. They need to accumulate some useful spare parts, however.

  20. The one thing that really is irritating was the play by Phillips getting picked off. I don’t get how a guy can be so smart out there sometimes (for example dropping the infield fly and getting a DP) and so dumb out there other times (today, the game where he was goofing off with Rollins and got picked off a few years ago).

    • The one thing that really is irritating was the play by Phillips getting picked off.I don’t get how a guy can be so smart out there sometimes (for example dropping the infield fly and getting a DP) and so dumb out there other times (today, the game where he was goofing off with Rollins and got picked off a few years ago).

      BP can be a great example of what I consider a lot. I still remember BP getting picked off second by the Phillies a couple of years ago, I believe it was. And, he still doesn’t seem to make adjustments in his game to keep those things from happening. Even more directly, BP needs to consider, he’s not as fast as he once was. His stolen bases days are essentially over. Thus, there is little need for him to be getting any kind of wild leadoff first like that. He seems to have failed to make that adjustment to his game.

    • HAT: The one thing that really is irritating was the play by Phillips getting picked off.I don’t get how a guy can be so smart out there sometimes (for example dropping the infield fly and getting a DP) and so dumb out there other times (today, the game where he was goofing off with Rollins and got picked off a few years ago).

      I didn’t see the play live but the Brewers broadcast showed the pickoff later. Phillips was way off first and yet looked totally shocked when Peralta threw to first. Why is he even thinking about stealing ? He walks on 4 pitches and then Perlata gets behind on Bruce. He let Peralta off the hook.

      He’s not fast anymore anyway, and never did learn pitchers’ moves so he could get a good jump.

      So dumb it’s irritating is right. Reminded me of his chatting with his pal Rollins to get picked off second, leading to that horrible 19 inning loss in 2011.

  21. @wildwestLV: Hellweg was not pitching well at AAA, and has been a disaster at the major league level. This means – if the Reds manage to hit him – that it will be a bullpen game for the Pirates. It would have been nice to tax their bullpen last nite.

    First Brewer complete game in more than 400 starts.

  22. Just not your prototypical team. This team lacks to big pieces offensively. A #1 hitter and a #4 hitter. And they also lack a manager who could coach that line-up. They will succeed, just never win big with this line-up. They need a Jake Clark/Adam Dunn/Foster in the four hole. They also need a Deion/Rose/Billy Hamilton—OH WE ALREADY HAVE HIM??

    Please guys bring him up. Pick up a big bat. And make Dusty have to manage.

  23. Heisey the one hot hitter in the lineup and he gets plunked and is out for who knows how long. Epitomizes the season.

  24. If you want to feel even worse about the Reds, read Fay’s blog article Catching Situation not Improved Much. Fay does not hide that Dusty is clueless about the situation. Actually, Dusty doesn’t hide that he’s clueless about the situation, as if he and Jocketty haven’t even spoken about it.

  25. Oakland beats Pirates 2-1 in Pittsburgh for the 2nd straight nite. They beat the Reds and Cardinals in Oakland. They just keep winning. I was impressed by their approach to hitting, quality ABs.

  26. @pinson343: Hellweg was pitching better at AAA than I thought, although a lot of walks allowed. His 3 major league outings have been awful. But then again, before last nite, Peralta had never pitched a shutout.

  27. If you own a business or have been in any business, if the players don’t produce, they either fire the players (or employees)or fire the coaching staff (management)….so the owner needs to figure something out. Even hitting in a friendly hitters park like Great American Ballpark, the Red’s slugging percentage and on base percentage as a whole is not good. There was an article in the paper about the Reds Owner being the best in baseball. Well…maybe it’s time he started kicking some butts. He needs to have a serious meeting with Jocketty & Baker @ Jacoby about the players. Anybody…Heisy, Robinson, Paul is better than double play Cozart at the #2 spot. He needs to tell Jacoby either the players improve…have some improvement instead of regressing on hitting or he is out the door, and Baker to start paying attention more to the team’s catching problems ect….or he is out the door too.

  28. Not to make excuses for the Reds, but Wily Peralta has been good lately. real good. like 0 runs allowed in 3 of his last 4 starts kinda good. I believe someone posted earlier on game thread that it’s time to give ty wigginton a call. sadly i believe he becomes maybe our 5th or 6th best hitter if he were to play in LF or 3b and Frazier play in LF. How embarrasing would it be for jocketty to pick up a cardinal waste product in the heat of the pennant race and then start him everyday? yikes! I’m happy that our pitching has held up during this awful last 30 games or so for the reds for if the pitching was bombing completely and the offense was rolling i’d be more concerned. Reds will hang in there until Cueto can come back and hopefully September will be our best offensive month heading into playoffs!

  29. Interesting last couple of years for former Reds’ player Yasmani Grandal. Last year he gets suspended for PED use, this year he is linked to another possible suspension, and then the dud e tears his ACL on top of it! Wow! So i’m guessing a year of rehab and then a year suspension after that? 2 years (if ever) before we see Yasmani Grandal again possibly

  30. The Brandon Phillips contract extension was a major disaster. As I’ve said, the Reds will regret it ala Casablanca, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of their lives.

    His OPS is.728, roughly the same as Ricky Weeks and Ben Zobrist, and against righties it is plunging to the nigh Cozartian level of .675. Why he hits cleanup is beyond me. He needs to hit either 2nd or 6th or 7th. He, as had bee pointed out, isn’t very fast, and is terminally prone to dunderheaded TOOTBLANs. The Jimmy Rollins blunder is one example, but the worst was getting thrown out at third for the first out in the first inning in the Giants series. That out was the Bartman moment for the series.

    They extended him because he was popular. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

  31. I love baseball, but I spent my whole life playing and coaching football, so I have to be very careful about my football mentality seeping into how I think about baseball. I know that baseball is not a rah-rah sport and that we have a team made up of guys who are even less rah-rah than a normal baseball team. However, I do believe that emotion does play a role.

    That leads me to this question. What exactly was our “players manager” doing when one of his players was called out at home after clearly beating the throw? I don’t necessarily think Baker has to become Lou Pinella, but I think standing up for his guys and getting tossed might light a fire and show how important these games have become.

    Maybe that’s a football mentality, but I’d sure like to see it happen once or twice just to get a feel for how the team would react. At this point as bad as these guys are playing, I am grasping for anything!

    • r

      @Kyle Farmer: You know, Baker rarely argues but it would have been a perfect spot for him to make a case for Robinson. The call was flat wrong and it was a play at the plate. Sometimes it’s even more effective when a guy who isn’t like Pinella goes out there and “emphatically” disagrees with a call. Perhaps even arguing so “emphatically” that he gets ejected.

    • I love baseball, but I spent my whole life playing and coaching football, so I have to be very careful about my football mentality seeping into how I think about baseball. I know that baseball is not a rah-rah sport and that we have a team made up of guys who are even less rah-rah than a normal baseball team. However, I do believe that emotion does play a role.That leads me to this question. What exactly was our “players manager” doing when one of his players was called out at home after clearly beating the throw? I don’t necessarily think Baker has to become Lou Pinella, but I think standing up for his guys and getting tossed might light a fire and show how important these games have become.Maybe that’s a football mentality, but I’d sure like to see it happen once or twice just to get a feel for how the team would react. At this point as bad as these guys are playing, I am grasping for anything!

      That’s just it. Baker isn’t that kind of guy. A players manager? Sorry, I just don’t see it. Because he pays for their dinner when they go out on the road, or because he tells bench players they are going to play 2-3 days ahead of schedule so they can make plans with family and friends? Oh, those are always priorities when I look for a “players manager”. How about being able to make the players better? How about being able to “make a bad player average”, “an average player good”, “a good player great”? How about going out to argue some calls every once in a while? Yes, I have seen Baker “discuss” some calls with some umps. But, there has to be times where he lays into them. I remember Red Auerbach (sp?) use to do that with the Celtics, with the sole intention of getting thrown out of the game, trying to light a fire underneath the players. And, many times, it worked.

      Baker just isn’t a fire-y guy. “Players enjoy playing for him”? Really? They enjoy playing like this?

      I am just sitting back expecting to hear the 2011 theme song again, the “It’ll Come, It’ll Come” blues.

    • No heart, no energy, no emotion, no fight, NO COACHING….2013 Cincinnati Reds

      @EastCoastVibes: I’m seeing a team that’s foundering but I’m not seeing a team that’s given up or that has no heart.

      • @EastCoastVibes: I’m seeing a team that’s foundering but I’m not seeing a team that’s given up or that has no heart.

        Honestly, I’ve been seeing that for about 2-3 years now. All kinds of ways to describe it. Or, should I said describe “it”? They just don’t have “it”. Like I’ve said before, good teams don’t wait for other teams to flounder. Good teams don’t wait for “it” to come. Good teams take “it”. Good teams demand “it”, from themselves and every other player on the team.

        One thing I have learned coaching for so many years, players will take on the personality of their coaches. Baker, a low emotional, laid back type of manager who seems like he doesn’t have a care in the world (except when it comes to getting a contract extension or wanting a decision on Chapman, where he then goes crying to the papers for action), that “It’ll come, it’ll come” pace of play. Then, look at how our players play.

        I remember someone asking about how Votto has been doing since he dropped an F-bomb and Baker admonished him for it. Votto’s numbers since then, 274/363/438. So, let’s see, Bakerman, those numbers are what you want from Votto? Or, the .351/.475/.555 he had up to that point?

  32. The simple truth is that according to my friend the Reds are just an average overall team and Reds fans have overestimated the teams overall level of talent and that the problems are not with Dusty and the staff….I then punched him.

  33. To all the people who were complaining that the Reds can’t beat the good teams, and that they only beat the bad teams… Are you happy now that they aren’t beating the bad teams? :mrgreen:

    I am supposed to see the Reds in Atlanta on Friday and I sure hope they are playing better. Of course baseball is a funny game. They may lose 4 or 5 of 6 to a couple bad teams and then take 3 of 4 from the Braves. Hey, a guy can hope right?

  34. @fiercev: I think it is a tad early to call it a season. They are playing horrible baseball this year but they’ve also had a couple stretches of very good baseball. I had them at 94 wins at the beginning of the year. I think that’s still a possibility. Of course 90-91 wins is also possible but even then, they are in the hunt for the wildcard. I remember when it was July 1st and the Reds really were out of contention and the season was effectively over. It wasn’t that long ago.

  35. If the Reds bat .000 with RISP and Marty Brennaman is not there to see it, do they still stink?

  36. Love the players attitudes.

    “Oh, well. It’s just a loss.”
    “Oh, well. We’ll get them tomorrow.”
    “It only takes one game to get it going.”

    I wish I could be that nonchalant about my job.

    I think this team needs a serious attitude adjustment.

  37. Johnny Hellweg has pretty good minor league numbers but has gotten blown up in his first 3 major league starts. At triple A this year he had a 2.82 e.r.a. in 76.2 IP, allowed only 55 hits while striking out 50. And that’s pitching in the PCL, which his a known hitters league.

    Don’t be surprised if this kid puts it together today against the struggling Reds.

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