2013 Reds / Game Thread

Game Thread Sweep Edition: Brewers at Reds (2013.05.12)

Let me start this edition of today’s game thread by wishing all the mothers a very Happy Mother’s Day!  I could not think of a better Mother’s Day gift for all the moms out there than a Reds win and a sweep of the Brew-Crew.  Or maybe flowers and a card.

The Reds will call on Bronson Arroyo to finish off Milwaukee today.  Let’s hope good Bronson shows up and the Reds offense from yesterday shows up again today.  Go Reds!

101 thoughts on “Game Thread Sweep Edition: Brewers at Reds (2013.05.12)

  1. Would it be so bad Dusty to play Hannahan once in a while at 3rd. My gawd. Always buries somebody so I guess it’s his turn. Made a great defensive play in the 9th last night.

  2. Was Hanigan known for his defense/throwing out base stealers in the minors? Seems like nobody can run on him the last few years.

  3. Did the Brewers make any roster moves today to bring up some pitching? If we can put pressure on their starter it could be another long day for them.

    • @YorktownRed:
      I read today that Dusty said Lutz needs to go back to the minors to work on somethings: What could they be?
      - how to not steal so many bases
      - more swings and misses
      - how to sacrifice

      I suspect Heisey might be in for more than a rehab in the minors should Lutz keep this up. Robinson’s even an upgrade as far as on paper. I like Heisey but does anybody got a counter argument?

        • @CI3J:
          In a way I see your point:
          vs. Left AVG OBP SLG OPS
          this year: .233 .281 .333 .615
          Career: .216 .273 .371 .644

          Not sure if it was meant to be sarcasm, but mine is. I know the knee jerk reaction is to go with the new guy against Dusty’s love of veteran established players. The rookies will cool off, but just suggesting a debate

        • @Steve Mancuso: I think Heisey is ok vs Alex White, Clayton Richard, Karstens, Wade Miley, Wandy Rodriguez, Westbrook (overall), a healthy Holliday, Jeremy Guthrie, Tim Hudson, et al. I think some of these guys still pitch in MLB.

      • @vicferrari:

        The amazing thing about Heisey was there were some, right here on this very site, that advocated “Free Heisey!” and wanted him to become a fulltime player.

        I mean, really.

        I never got it then, and I still can’t believe it actually happened.

        He might be a useful pinch hitter, IF there’s nothing better available. And he does OK at defense.

        That’s it.

        • @CI3J: You really should include some context about that. When the alternative was Jonny Gomes striking out at astronomical rates but staying in the lineup regardless, you betcha I wanted to see what Heisey could do. Like he would have done any worse? The only difference between the two was that one had a bobblehead night late in the summer so he kept plahing. In fact, Heisey had a pretty decent September, if memory serves. The years run together.

          And when there was a fair amount of skepticism whether Ludwick would pan out, yeah, some of us thought Heisey deserved a shot. … I think it’s obvious now that his role is as fourth outfielder-pinch hitter.

        • @Brian Van Hook: I’m with C13J on this. Heisey did well for a very short time, but his history (all of it, including the minors) suggests that he isn’t an everyday player.

          I’m sure a lot of Cardinal fans said “Free Kozma” after he posted a .952 OPS last year. Of course, he was a horrible hitter for a long time in the bush leagues. The media over there has been saying well, he’s a guy who is just way better in the majors than in the minors, which is impossible unless your name is Josh Hamilton and there are extenuating circumstances. Naturally, Kozma is back to Kozma and the questions from St. Louis are “when can we get an upgrade”? (Answer: any time they want, given their farm system.)

        • @CI3J:
          I meant in an earlier comment that I do not see Heisey as an upgrade…
          but regardless there will be hindsighters saying there were people actually saying that Robinson or Lutz was an improvement over Heisey should they tail off and Heisey gets back to his .260, 10 HR self.

          So if Robinson and Lutz remain healthy should Heisey replace them on the roster?

        • @CI3J: I was briefly on the Free Heisey bandwagon, but only when we had old hole-in-the-bat in center field on a daily basis…and he would have been an improvement over that…

      • @vicferrari: If all players were to get judged like this, there would be nothing but chaos in the majors. Phil Humber, who pitched a perfect game last season, just got sent back to the minors. Galaraga (sp?), who was one out away from a perfect game, is in the minors.

        You can’t judge a player by “what have you done for me lately” as in the last couple of games. You have to judge over the season, over the years, etc. I do see Lutz going to AAA sometime this season if not now. And, while going strong now, that doesn’t mean he will be next week. You don’t want a revolving door between the minors and majors; playing good while up, you say, but start to play bad, you’re back down.

        I will say, though, also, as a Heisey fan, I agree, we don’t have to hope we get him back in a hurry. The team is still doing alright. But, also, remember, he is our 4th OF, apparently Paul our 5th, Robinson our 6th, and Lutz our 7th OF. How good are these guys suppose to be? They are obviously not suppose to be All-Stars. If they were, they would be getting millions of dollars more probably somewhere else. They are what they are, substitute outfielders until someone steps up, even if they are in the position for competition for it.

        But, I still am hesitant to Ludwick, also. I will have no problem giving him his opportunity once he comes back. But, that doesn’t mean he will come back 100% and ready to bang like last year, or struggle like he did the couple of years before that. Remember, he was in competition with Heisey last season for the LF job. And, Heisey batted 288/324 during those games, starting 32 of 42 straight games. But, when Ludwick got his turn and his hot bat going, we couldn’t take that out of the lineup.

      • @vicferrari: The fact that you really can’t get much worse than Heisey. Running out every play doesn’t mean the .200 batting average is any higher than that.

      • @vicferrari: Where is the downgrade with Heisey? If you’re going to judge major league players based on 1-2 weeks of play, there would be nothing but chaos throughout the league. Lutz is going good right now, great. He is still probably the first one to tell you he’s got things he still needs to learn. Let him bide his time. We are talking about substitute outfielders, for Christ’s sakes. None of these guys, and I will include Ludwick in this group, is going to be the key pieces to lead us to any title nor WS. Let them be. The dude hasn’t even been through the league once, and it sounds like you are already voting him for the All-Star game or something. Let him be.

    • @rfay00:

      I still say Robinson goes on the DL when Heisey is back to heal up his left side so he can swing from both sides of the plate again.

  4. Before Lutz, does anyone know the last time we had a homerun with anyone aboard? Feels like weeks, but I’m not sure.

    • @Eric the Red: I just went back and looked. Unless I missed one, the last multi-run HR the Reds had before Lutz was Todd Frazier vs. the Marlins on April 18. (!)

      I was trying to count how many consecutive solo HRs we had, but I lost count around 15.

      • @mlb: That’s….unbelievable. I knew it felt like it had been awhile, but I didn’t think it could really be that long. Thanks for checking. (BTW, If you don’t mind my asking, how did you check that?)

  5. Thom takes practically an entire inning to make a stupid point about the Reds leading the league in runs scored. It started, “if you take out 7 of the Reds 37 games” …

    • @Steve Mancuso: That was ridiculous…reminds me of the old joke: What did Abe Lincoln and Calvin Coolidge have in common? They both had beards except Coolidge!

    • @Steve Mancuso:

      Defense is one area where I feel, by season’s end, the Reds will display a marked superiority over the St. Louis Cardinals and most other teams in baseball.

      We take for granted just how good the Reds’ defense can be.

  6. Let’s see now … their defense gives away runs. Reds’ defense keeps Arroyo’s shutout intact. Gotta love that.

      • @CI3J: I don’t follow the Harpers.. is he just having a bad year or is he actually their worst hitter? Just frustrating to watch Dusty be so stubborn about the batting order.

        • @Mwv:

          His career BA is something like .230. He does walk at a decent rate, but I would say in that lineup, he’s got to be right at the bottom as far as hitting goes.

    • @Mwv: He’s always done this – not sure if he’s incredibly clueless about who should bat near the top of the order or if he’s trying to prove some stupid point…Cozart, Stubbs, Taveras, Corey Patterson…heard him on the radio recently talking about some of the “GREAT” leadoff hitters he’s managed in the past, and he brought up Marvin Benard…seriously? Not to mention Darren Lewis, Tom Goodwin…I’m leaning toward no clue…

  7. I really want to see Super Todd go on a tear and get his average up to about .280 then maintain that for the year.

    If he hit around .280 with an OBP around .350 and 25 HR, I’d be more than happy with that kind of production.

  8. If I’m Dusty, anyone gets on base and I get the bullpen up right away. Two people get on and I take Arroyo out.

  9. Nice job by Lecure. Regardless of the result, I think that was well handled by Dusty. He saw Arroyo was starting to get in trouble and came to get him. Excellent move and great game from Bronson (hopefully inching closer to his 100th win as a Red).

  10. I cannot tell you how much I agree with the decision to bring in Lecure, and how much I disagree with the decision to pinch hit for him with a 4 run lead.

    Obviously, it worked out great on both ends, but I hate bringing in Lecure for one batter there.

  11. Speaking of off days, I can’t remember the last time the Reds had an off day both before and after a 3 game series.

  12. Wow… apparently 95mph fastballs about 5ft away from where the catcher is set up is now a passed ball? Jeeeze.

  13. Can anyone fill me in on what happened there? My gamecast from ESPN dropped and when it came back online it shows that the Brewers scored, but Betancourt flied out?

  14. Folks, that was a passed ball by 30 official scorekeepers in MLB. He missed the spot by a lot, but Hanigan should have caught the ball. That’s what catchers do. Horrible pitch, yes. Passed ball, yes.

  15. Baker’s gotten the message about the advantage of keeping his stopper from being rusty, save stats be darned.

  16. One thing I don’t understand regarding Marshall: Dusty was adamant in interviews, etc., a few weeks ago that he wasn’t going to activate Marshall from the DL until he proved he could go back to back days, if needed. Now, Marshall is lucky to pitch once every five days. An over-reaction the other way on Dusty’s part ?

  17. Cards put Westbrook on the DL with elbow inflammation and are bringing up a guy that has a 1.16 ERA in AAA. They definitely have some kind of farm system.

  18. Wow, I’ve agreed with almost every move I’ve seen from Dusty today. Odd. Only thing that might have been better would be getting Marshall in instead of Broxton; but that’s a toss-up.

  19. Cards are losing 5-0 in the 6th as well.

    Maybe the Reds will reclaim their rightful spot at the top of the NL Central sooner rather than later.

    • @CI3J: You did see that the Cards have played a much tougher schedule to date than the Reds, and most of it on the road, right?

        • @CI3J: That seems to completely contradict your claim that the Reds have had the “hard part of their schedule” and the Cards “will have the hard part of theirs” in the future.

          I take your comments generally as just bravado, which is fine, but analytically, I don’t see how it’s anywhere near a certainty that the Reds are winning the NL Central.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate:

          It’s more of the Reds, top to bottom, are a more complete/better team than the Cards. Which starting rotation (when healthy) would you rather have? Which bullpen would you rather have? Which defense would you rather have? And position by position, the Reds are no slouches, especially with many of the Cards contributors (Holliday and Beltran) aging.

          As far as the schedule goes, I admit what I said was clumsy. What I meant was the Reds have the hardest part of their schedule done, and that the Cards would cool off and hit some “rough patches” (that was the word I actually used, after all)

          The Reds truly are just the superior team. Over the course of the season, this will be confirmed, just as it was last year.

          It’s not bravado, it’s based on what we saw last year, and what we can expect to see again this year.

        • @CI3J: That’s a good question. If everyone’s healthy, I don’t think it’s as obvious as you do. I’d take Wainwright over any of the 10 starters. I’d probably order them as:

          Wainwright
          Cueto
          Latos
          Miller
          Garcia/Bailey
          Arroyo
          Lynn
          Leake
          Westbrook

          So I don’t think your implied statement that the Reds rotation is clearly better is true.

          Bullpen: yes, Reds.

          Position by position: the Cards have the advantage at C, both corner OF spots, and 3B. The Reds have the advantage at 1B, 2B, CF. SS is probably a wash, though I expect Cozart to slightly outperform Kozma over a season (just as I expect Freese to outperform Frazier over the season).

          But of course the differences vary, so adding up who’s better is kind of not the best way. For example, Molina is WAY better than the Reds catchers, and Votto is way better than whoever the Cards throw out at first base.

          I still don’t see your point. The Reds are not clearly superior.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate:

          You can have your pitchers like that, but I don’t agree. I would go:

          Cueto
          Wainwright
          Latos
          Bailey
          Garcia
          Arroyo
          Miller
          Lynn
          Leake
          Westbrook

          The Reds’ rotation and pitching in general is better than the Cards.
          Advantage: Reds

          Bullpen: Does this even need to be discussed?
          Advantage: Reds

          Defense: See: Bullpen
          Advantage: Reds

          The position by position comparisons are as you said, with 1B, 2B, and CF clearly being advantages for the Reds. I think you are selling Bruce short by saying Beltran clearly beats him. Bruce is still young (yes, soon we won’t be able to say that) and developing. We’re still not sure what we have in Todd Frazier. Molina is fantastic, but Hanigan is also one of the best in the game. SS, eh, whatever on both counts. And of course I’ll grant the Cards win the LF battle going away with Ludwick out.

          So overall, I would say:
          Offense: Wash/slight advantage Cards

          That is how I view the Reds as being clearly superior.

        • @CI3J: If you were offered Arroyo or Miller, you’d take Arroyo? I don’t think you’ve paid attention to Miller’s career. There’s variance, but Miller could end up a point lower in ERA than Arroyo, easily.

          On what basis you put Bailey over Garcia I don’t know.

          Bruce over Beltran makes me laugh, honestly. Beltran’s worst year in the last four with the bat is better than Jay Bruce’s best season ever.

          Comparing Hanigan to Molina makes me laugh too. I mean, that’s honestly ridiculous. Completely ridiculous. Hanigan is slightly below on defense, and MILES below on offense.

          I see now why you have the Reds as superior. It’s bias. Look, you could be right, Beltran could crater, Bruce could shine, Molina could start stinking, etc. But that’s not the expected case, that’s for sure.

        • @CI3J: If you were offered Arroyo or Miller, you’d take Arroyo?

          I would. If I’m looking to win RIGHT NOW, I want Arroyo out there over Miller.

          @CI3J: On what basis you put Bailey over Garcia I don’t know.

          Admittedly, the two are about a wash, but Bailey had a very good second half last year and it could be a sign of him finally arriving as the pitcher everyone thought he could be. You yourself ranked them at the same level, I just gave Bailey ever so slightly the edge.

          @CI3J: Bruce over Beltran makes me laugh, honestly.Beltran’s worst year in the last four with the bat is better than Jay Bruce’s best season ever.

          Beltran is also 36 and injury prone. I don’t deny that Beltran had a great career, but if you’re asking me who I’d take RIGHT NOW, THIS SEASON, I’d think long and hard before taking Beltran over Bruce. If this were a battle of careers, of course Beltran wins laughably easily. But we’re talking about who would help your team RIGHT NOW.

          @CI3J: Comparing Hanigan to Molina makes me laugh too.I mean, that’s honestly ridiculous.Completely ridiculous.Hanigan is slightly below on defense, and MILES below on offense.

          Molina is the best in the game. I don’t deny that. But Hanigan is also a top 5 catcher. If the Reds had someone like Geralrd Laird behind the plate, ok this would be a huge advantage for the Cards. But with someone like Hanigan, the advantage is less pronounced.

        • @CI3J: “Offense, slight advantage- Cards”? Dude, do you really keep up with the numbers? Here’s some for you. Going by baseball-reference.com solely, the Reds have 3 starters batting under 250. The Cards have only 1, and that guy was the WS MVP of their last WS tile. We have 4 players with triple digits OPS+, they have 7. We have 4 players who have K’ed more then 30 times this season, the Cards have none. It is fairly obvious the Cards are a better offensive team. It is fairly obvious we are still a feast or famine team.

          Arroyo should be down on your list much further. Lynn should be up higher on your list. Bottom line, the starting rotations are pretty much toss-ups.

          Can bad defense lose games? Sure. Can it always lose games? No. The Cards showed that by having one of the worst defenses and still winning the WS a couple of years ago. I will go even further, defense doesn’t win nor lose games. It is still a team game. You still have to have everything. Our team is still missing consistent and intelligent hitting. Choo helps this. “Votto” is a name only right now. Even though his numbers may show he is going good, he still isn’t the Votto we know; just look at his power numbers. And, is still only 2 players. BP is too streaky. And, no one else has shown any offensive consistency from game to game.

        • @steveschoen:

          The name of the game is scoring runs. All the other stats are fun to look at, but ultimately the worth of your offense is judged by how many runs it scores.

          How do the teams stack up then?

        • @CI3J: True: Runs, OBP, OPS, better measures.

          However, you are neglecting to consider that the Reds play in a hitters park and the Cards in a pitchers park. I’d say that if you look at runs (where the Cards are a tenth of a run worse per game), the Cards are actually better given the park they play in. Yes, that also helps their pitching; but as of this instant, the gap is much larger than park effects.

        • @CI3J: I’ve been hearing for about 3 years now how old the Cards are, how their knees are shot, how they have no minor league prospects to build from. And, continually, all of that proves to be nothing but rubbish. The Cards are a good club/team/organization, from top to bottom. Right now, I think it’s a tossup between their’s and our starting rotation. I believe they have better hitters. I believe our bullpen is better. But, even with that, the Cards have shown they can still piece some kind of bullpen together, even good enough to win a WS, something we still haven’t got a whiff of since 1990. Now, I haven’t kept track of who’s injured over there (is Furcal still out? Still, that Kozma dude doesn’t seem to have been a let-down). But, all they have to do is to get to the post season, anyhow. Then, it’s a brand new season. Post season is different. The Cards have shown that winning their most recent WS’s

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