2013 Reds

Final roster: Hoover, Parra, Izturis, Simon make the club

Mark Sheldon has the details. The final roster slots went to: César Izturis, J.J. Hoover, Manny Parra and Alfredo Simon

Here are the players who were cut and their status:

Jose Arredondo outrighted to Triple-A Louisville
Logan Ondrusek optioned to Louisville
Jason Donald designated for assignment
Emmanuel Burriss re-assigned to Minor League camp

 

42 thoughts on “Final roster: Hoover, Parra, Izturis, Simon make the club

  1. Ondru to Pensacola. Like it all. Izturis vs Donald vs Burriss is a wash really, so that didn’t matter. Parra is a lefty, so whatevs to that. Just thrilled no more of Arredondo’s run-giving-up ways, and Ondrusek’s uselessness. Happy day. Baseball is here.

    • @hermanbates: I really think that when one of the last guys out of your bullpen (Ondrusek) has a 119 ERA+ over almost 200 appearances in three years, you really have nothing to complain about.

  2. Parra is there just for LOOGY. The thing is, Arredondo’s numbers against lefties are better than Parra’s. Like with Harris last season, you never carry a lefty for the sake of having a lefty. Let’s see, who in management likes the righty-lefty matchups?

    Izturis was the one going by ST numbers.

    Logan must really have something to work on. If you recall, he had a scoreless inning streak himself to start last season. He’s been fine first half of the season always, regressed the second half of the season. He may have mechanics going on right now. But, I believe he’s just been overworked. Baker’s been pressing him at times early in the seasons to be on pace to be a 70+ game releiver. I just don’t think Logan is that.

  3. Must say, I wasn’t sure whether I wanted Parra vs. Arredondo, but thrilled, yes, to have Hoover aboard. …… Can someone enlighten me about the term “outrighted?” I understand that Ondrusek still had options, but does outrighted involve waivers in some form?

    Simon has been the long man, but is gonna be ready for that role after pitching so little in the spring? Let’s hope that role isn’t needed for the first few weeks.

    • @Brian Van Hook: “Outrighted” means off the 40 man roster and assigned to whatever minor league club but still under the Reds control.

      Yes, he had to clear waivers to be outrighted because he was signed to a major league contract.

      The fact he had already cleared and could be outrighted versus DFAed indicates they knew several days ago he was going down and had already done the waiver thing. Presumably they hadn’t deiced yet on Donald or working a trade which fell through and thus had to DFA him

  4. From a math standpoint, Parra may have gotten the call as a lefty more in consideration of a hitter’s numbers versus southpaws than any comparitive difference versus lefties between he and others.

    From a reputation standpoint, Izturis beats Donald on playing a major league shortstop. If Donald clears waivers, chances are the rest of the league agrees.

    And with Hoover rostered, leaving these as our discussion points, well, it looks like we’ve got a pretty good team going out Opening Day.

      • @rfay00: My disdain for Parra has nothing to do with Marshall. A LOOGY? Fine. Just not Parra. Arredondo is a better LOOGY anyway. But I understand why Jocketty took Arredondo away from Dusty who wouldn’t use him that way.

        Parra was one of the worst pitchers in the Brewer’s bullpen last year which was one of the worst bullpens in the majors.

  5. Not complaining about these moves. I look at the bullpen and don’t see a weak point when it comes to high leverage situations. We have four guys that can take any inning from the 7th to the 9th with the reassurance that the job will get done 9 out of 10 times. I am referring to Chapman, Hoover, Marshall, and Broxton.

    In regards to who the utility IF is. Eh…I would have just flipped a coin between Donald and Izturis. It’s not like he a key piece in the Stubbs deal.

    The fact that we are arguing about the LOOGY in the bullpen and the last guy off the bench makes me happy.

  6. I guess Parra is this years Harris. Positive attributes: he is a lefty and…………….he is a lefty. Arredondo may not be great but he is twice the pitcher that Parra is.

    Based on Jason Donald’s 2011 season alone, I would have been inclined to have kept him over Izzy. Oh well. Probably not a big deal but yaneverknow. Must of been Izzy’s lifetime .294 OBP. Dusty seems to place a lot of value on that kind of thing. Obviously, Donald isn’t much better but he will always have that 2011 season.

    Best news is that Hoover is where he belongs and that in the end is probably the most important decision of the lot. Let’s get this baby started!

  7. I’m stunned that Manny Parra made the team. I don’t expect he’ll be around long, but we’ll see. If they wanted somebody to get lefties out it seemed like Jose Arredondo was a better option. If they wanted a long reliever, well, Alfredo Simon is his teammate.

    I was surprised about Ondrusek being sent to AA. Why not AAA? I’m not sure how to perceive that move.

    Jose Arredondo passed through waivers and no rumors leaked on the matter? Wow. I’m surprised.

    I’m not particularly surprised about Izturis, but I hope that Jason Donald chooses to stay in the organization. If the Reds chose veteran experience and defense over a better bat… it’s not the end of the world. I know some people will draw comparisons to Wilson Valdez.

    Every year I keep a record of who made the opening day roster, and of the starting lineup. I won’t be recording this year’s roster until game-time tomorrow – until then I’ll be expecting a trade of Parra.

  8. All of us keep talking about Arredondo’s success against lefties, but that requires thinking outside of the box, which Dusty just absolutely will not do. I predicted this early in ST b/c he was another left hander and it was the obvious decision simply because he’s a lefty.

    Chris (in today’s interview) hinted that he’d heard rumors they were trying to move Arredondo. I can’t believe he went through waivers.

    I don’t understand Ondrusek to AA either….don’t ever remember a guy with the major league experience that Ondrusek has being sent down 2 levels.

    • @Bill Lack: They did something similar a couple of years back around the first of September to get around the rule that guys sent down were required to stay down at least 10 days. Because the AA season ended 1 September, they were able to bring the guy back to the big club forthwith.

      Maybe there is some sort of rule at work here that might involve when the seasons start.

  9. Presumably they kept Izturis because they felt he was the better defensive shortstop of the guys in the mix for the spot.

    Actually with the major league ready and near major league ready depth at SS depleted by the trading of Gregorius and conversion of Hamilton to CF, I think this makes more sense than it might seem at first blush.

  10. These are very encouraging signs. It tells me the brass understands how difficult our early schedule is (cards/angels/natinals) and we don’t have the luxury of letting guys figure it out on the fly.

  11. If Manny Parra sticks around hopefully he’s this year’s version of Alfredo Simon – a failed starter who pitches well in relief. Only this will be Parra’s second year out of the bullpen, but maybe Price can do something to help him. Walt Jocketty knew what he was doing with Simon and maybe he got something good with Parra. I doubt what he got is a lefty specialist though, maybe a long reliever though.

    Ondrusek to AA, I just don’t get the impression that he’ll be there long. I don’t know if it implies that he’s become trade bait or that AA had a roster opening (and Louisville didn’t) to hold Ondrusek for a few days before an opening is created in Louisville or Cincinnati by a trade.

  12. Izturis over Donald is a reasonable decision. The concern with this decision is that Dusty will over-use Izturis as he has with every other veteran, backup shortstop. I like Izturis as a backup shortstop, but backup as in he plays only when Cozart can’t play, not when Dusty wants to get him going. Izturis is a 33 year old, 12 year veteran with with a career OPS of 617 and a definitive regression in performance since 2008.

    The inclusion of Parra in the bullpen over Arredondo has Dusty written all over it. When asked about Parra’s role on the team, Dusty replied:

    “He’s got to make the team first. Manny’s better than he’s been here. Fortunately for us, we’ve seen him on the other side. We’ve seen him very good. It will probably be a situation much like Billy Bray last year — a second lefty, take pressure off Marshall.”

    When Dusty made that comment, Parra has a 4.05 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 9.45 H/9 & 2.2 SO/BB. Parra was actually pitching much better this spring than during his career. For his illustrious career, Parra has a 5.12 ERA, 1.64 WHIP, 10.2 H/9 & 1.83 SO/BB. Parra has been remarkably consistent (i.e. consistently bad) throughout his career. I wonder just when Dusty has ‘seen him very good’? By the end of spring training, Parra came down from his lofty heights to a 5.28 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, 11.15 H/9 & 1.83 SO/BB, which is right in line with his very consistent (i.e. consistently bad) career performance.

    @OhioJim: has it correct. Dusty simply can’t adapt to any non-conventional thinking about how to handle the lineup or pitching staff.

    For their careers:
    3.27 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 8.7 SO/9, 1.93 SO/BB Arredondo
    5.12 ERA, 1.64 WHIP, 8.4 SO/9, 1.83 SO/BB Parra

    For 2013 spring training:
    2.84 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 6.34 H/9, 7.1 SO/9, 1.67 SO/BB – Arredondo
    5.28 ERA, 1.63 WHIP, 11.1 H/9, 6.4 SO/9, 1.83 SO/BB – Parra

    Career vs LH hitters:
    .190 AVG, .581 OPS – Arredondo
    .267 AVG, .766 OPS – Parra

    2012 vs LH hitters:
    .165 AVG, .581 OPS – Arredondo
    .229 AVG, .635 OPS – Parra

    The bottom line is that Dusty is who he is and that isn’t going to change, so we have to simply accept it and take the good with the bad. Opening day is tomorrow. Go Reds!

    • @Shchi Cossack:

      The inclusion of Parra in the bullpen over Arredondo has Dusty written all over it.

      I agree with all you said about Arredondo being a better option against lefty batters than Parra, but this ‘has Dusty written all over it’ – That’s just a way of saying that any bad decision must be due to Dusty’s intervention.

      Walt Jocketty signed Manny Parra, you even quote Dusty implying that he was uncertain that Parra would make the team. Jose Arredondo, who Dusty arguably had too much confidence in (as he used him more as a setup man than a lefty specialist) was forced out. If anybody believes in a battle between Dusty and Jocketty (which I don’t), Jocketty won this round. I think that has front office written all over it.

      • @redsfanman: Parra and Simon are both veteran ex-starters. I doubt either one would have taken a minor league deal. Ondrusek needed work and Arredondo would move down.
        We get day one ready long men and only have to wait ten days to evaluate it.
        CI flat out earned that job, the old fashioned way and Hoover was a Mr.McGoo pick……

        I like it

    • So by career numbers, Arredondo is 77 AVG basis points better and 85 OPS basis points better vs LHB than Parra. So let’s say their use in a 6th or 7th inning appearance against a LHB … let’s use Ryan Howard, Anthony Rizzo, Matt Carpenter, and Bryce Harper.

      Howard vs RHP (AVG/OPS) 295/1005 vs LHP 227/739
      Rizzo vs RHP (AVG/OPS) 318/892 vs LHP 208/599
      Carpenter vs RHP (AVG/OPS) 308/846 vs LHP 265/784
      Harper vs RHP (AVG/OPS) 286/869 vs LHP 240/715

      In four of the eight the statistical advantage claimed in Arredondo’s numbers disappears when anyone throwing from the left stands on the mound. In the other four, it comes closer to evening out.

      I’m not saying Parra is a better choice right now, but individual numbers can’t be looked at in a vacuum. In fact, I’m limiting the discussion to comparison as a single LH batter. If the role is more situational, one might prefer Parra out there – if they’re out there to finish an inning, or maybe even pitch a whole one in a closer game, I’d lean to Arredondo.

      So the usage pattern early for Parra will tell – one batter who couldn’t hit my dog if he fired it up there lefty (in his defense, he’s hitting low-80s recently) might mean we maybe need to look for a different book. Taking on whole innings might mean “they are who we thought they are”.

      @Shchi Cossack:

      • @lthedaug: I’m with you on this about not looking at this in a vacuum. Arredondo’s numbers v. lefties are perhaps skewed by the fact that opposing managers tend to let any lefty hit against him as a RHP, whereas they would pinch-hit for lesser lefties against a true LOOGY. Therefore, the true LOOGY is facing a higher concentration of guys like Bryce Harper and Adrian Gonzalez, than would Arredondo.

        • @lthedaug: I’m with you on this about not looking at this in a vacuum. Arredondo’s numbers v. lefties are perhaps skewed by the fact that opposing managers tend to let any lefty hit against him as a RHP, whereas they would pinch-hit for lesser lefties against a true LOOGY. Therefore, the true LOOGY is facing a higher concentration of guys like Bryce Harper and Adrian Gonzalez, than would Arredondo.

          But, then, Ed, any number skewed would only be in favor of Arredondo against lefties.

          I’m not saying this decision wasn’t Walt. For, he’s the one to make these decisions. But, given Baker’s use of righty-lefty, I definitely smell some Baker influence on this one. I would have thought we would have learned from last season with Harris, you don’t carry a lefty just for the sake of having a lefty.

          I still think a trade is brewing, myself.

  13. You new Izutris was a lock because Dusty loves veteran SS. Shall we count the number who’ve worn a Reds jersey since Dusty took over?

    • @sezwhom1: Paul Janish and Zack Cozart are the only relatively young shortstops Dusty has been given, otherwise he’s been given a steady stream of one year patch job at shortstop. That adds up to a lot of guys acquired by the front office. The front office is responsible for who the team adds and subtracts.

      Jason Donald, with 3 years of experience, I’d argue that he’s also a veteran, albeit not as experienced or accomplished as Izturis.

      Izturis might have gotten the job because the team still values pitching and defense.

    • Allow me to sum up the lines of thinking on Redleg Nation:

      The Club makes a move you don’t agree with: This has Dusty written all over it! Dusty can’t think outside the box! Dusty is ruining the team for his selfish reasons!

      The Club makes a move you agree with: A stroke of genius! Good ol’ Uncle Walt!

      Carry on.

      • @CI3J:

        Allow me to sum up the lines of thinking on Redleg Nation:

        The Club makes a move you don’t agree with: This has Dusty written all over it! Dusty can’t think outside the box! Dusty is ruining the team for his selfish reasons!

        The Club makes a move you agree with: A stroke of genius! Good ol’ Uncle Walt!

        Carry on.

        You are mainly correct when it comes to who is cut and who is not.

        From my perspective, Walt brings the guys to Cincy and Dusty basically fields his choices. Parra and Arredondo were available for Dusty to choose from because Walt procured both. IMO, Dusty makes the call on who comes north. I may be wrong but I gotta believe that is how it works in most cases. So kudos to Dusty on Hoover but not so much on Parra.

        • @LWBlogger:

          Well, if it walks like a skunk, and talks like a slunk, etc., then it must be a skunk. After all, was it Walt who was bunting the fastest guy in the league to 2nd base? Was it Walt who was putting our two worst starting hitters in the 1-2 holes in the lineup? Was it Walt who was chose to put Harris out there over Frazier? Was it Walt who fielded a tri-headed platoon monster in LF in 2011? Was it Walt who forgot the count on Cairo when Cairo was ordered to bunt with 2 strikes? Was it Walt who asked TLR for a weather report, a guy who would lie to his own mother to gain an advantage in a game (also considering “Was it Walt who loved to talk about how much research he does in developing the lineups, then he forgets to get a weather report?)? Was it Walt who left one of our best pitcher in the bullpen our last playoff series (granted he is the closer, but it wasn’t Walt who managed the games with little intensity of winning; nothing in the rulebook that says you have to use a specific pitcher only in the 9th inning; even in the pen, Chapman could have easily pitched more in that series)? Should I go on?

          Listen, it is more than obvious. Baker is no kind of X’s and O’s guy. In-game strategy isn’t his strong point, never was, never will be. He has no reputation of developing young talent. His strength? His players like him. Sorry, but that’s what one looks for in “Mr. Good Guy”, like someone who will pick up your dinner when you go out to eat with a friend, a fairly secondary charasteristic in a manager of a baseball team. It’s sort of the reason why the guy has been around as long as he has. The players like him. Also, the reason why the guy has failed so predominantly in the post season, he has little idea what it takes to win it all.

      • @CI3J: Well said. Walt Jocketty is the voice of reason and Dusty Baker is the voice of insanity. Responsibility for team decision is assigned to those two people accordingly.

        I said before, Dusty’s problem with Arredondo in the past has been that he seems to have too much confidence in Arredondo, using him to face righthanded batters. It sure doesn’t seem to me like somebody Dusty would want to cut. It makes sense the front office to want to justify signing Parra.

  14. Remember the GM makes the call on players not Dusty! This is the best team the Reds have had in 30 years and all people can do is question the wisdom of having a 2nd lefty in the bullpen? If you follow the team at all you know that the bullpen situation was the biggest surplus of the team…Too many good arm’s! These guys will all contribute before the 162 game season is over. Rollen gets the credit for turning the team around…But remember how bad this team was before Dusty got here? Yes, Walt picks the players, but Dusty gets the most out of them.

    • Walt picks the players, but Dusty gets the most out of them.

      @tracedea: This is probably so but it doesn’t mean DB doesn’t have some weak spots and is it wrong to point out his errors in judgement?

    • This is the best team the Reds have had in 30 years and all people can do is question the wisdom of having a 2nd lefty in the bullpen?

      I count three lefties in the bullpen.

    • Remember the GM makes the call on players not Dusty! This is the best team the Reds have had in 30 years and all people can do is question the wisdom of having a 2nd lefty in the bullpen?

      Several points. First, given that this is the only real point of contention right now, that is a good thing for this team. Lord, it wasn’t too long ago we were wondering if we were going to be able to field a decent starting lineup much less who was on the bench and in the pen.

      Second, that doesn’t mean it isn’t something for others to discuss about. So what if some mention it. If you don’t want to read it, the scroll bar is to the right, the backscreen icon the top left.

      Third, the GM may make the decisions, but it is fairly well known that managers do have influence in decisions.

      Myself, I still think we may see a trade brewing. Possibly not right away, but by midseason?

    • @90reds:

      Anyone know where Mark Prior ended up?

      I would assume Louisville (assuming he wasn’t released), b/c the other teams rosters have been announced and he’s not on them (I caught the draft tracker up yesterday, other than the Bats players).

  15. Yes Dusty likes righty-lefty matchups but most managers do. What Dusty does in these cases isn’t much more “platoon centric” than almost any other manager in the game. Is is faulty? Perhaps in some cases as it seems to be with Arrendondo and Parra. What I can tell you though is even if we had a different manager, it is unlikely that Parra/Arrendondo would be used differently.

    On a second note, did anyone catch the interview with Astros GM Jeff Luhnow last night during the game? Talk about an out-of-the-box thinker.

    • On a second note, did anyone catch the interview with Astros GM Jeff Luhnow last night during the game? Talk about an out-of-the-box thinker.

      I caught some of that. It sounded interesting. I would have liked to sit down more with him to hear that strategy. I couldn’t quite get it all, doing something else at the time.

    • On a second note, did anyone catch the interview with Astros GM Jeff Luhnow last night during the game? Talk about an out-of-the-box thinker.

      I heard his interview. I thought all along that he was a great choice by the Astros (and a big loss for the Cardinals), but even during his interview I was wondering how long they’d keep him around. He seems to me like the Astros’ version of Dan O’Brien – great for rebuilding, but eventually I suspect he’ll probably be fired as a scapegoat before his investments can pay off.

      The Astros’ plan for 8 starting pitchers per minor league team, or whatever it was, seemed interesting and unusual. Eric Bedard, a career starter and the team’s 5th starter, getting a save by pitching the final three innings of their opening day win… was an unusual way to start the season. Bo Porter was managing opening day like a playoff game.

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